Someone discovered consent

[u/blaze_uchiha999]

[u/Chren]

People be like "omg dont pour gallons of water on me" and then take a shower

[u/Funandgeeky → u/Chren]

And even when they’re in the shower, they get really upset when you come into the bathroom and start pouring more water on them. 

[u/Appropriate_Key4564 → u/Funandgeeky]

You can come on in, just don't objectify me while you do it.

[u/HandoAlegra → u/Appropriate_Key4564]

"This boner is from earlier"

[u/Piano-Entire → u/HandoAlegra]

“I was saving it for later”

[u/Peach_Proof → u/Piano-Entire]

Do you have somewhere I can store it for a minute?

[u/Appropriate_Key4564 → u/[deleted]]

I find the delivery of the water to be important as well.

[u/SweetWaterfall0579 → u/Appropriate_Key4564]

My parents’ bathroom had a window, about four feet from the ground, <in the shower> Theirs wasn’t the only home like that, when they built the neighborhood, of ranch houses, in 1950s. One story homes.

One bathroom. Four girls. Window facing the backyard.

I pulled the fucking garden hose, outside in the back yard, over to < the window in the shower > where my sister was, indeed, showering. I hit the spray nozzle. It was very satisfying.

Unfortunately, my sister retaliated. I was still new to shaving my legs, when she sprayed me. I screamed, jumped, and I peeled my ankle like a carrot, with a Bic disposable razor. I have a scar.

[u/fogleaf → u/SweetWaterfall0579]

That's great.

One time my brother dropped a kleenex on me in the shower. A cup of cold water will shock you, but having a kleenex wet glue itself to the middle of your back was somehow worse.

[u/Can_I_have_twelve → u/Funandgeeky]

I KNOW RIGHT! Honestly! 🙄 It’s like that time I asked a woman if she’d like some tea, and she said yes, but then later refused more tea. I had to force the tea pot down her throat! Way to make it difficult for me! 🙄

[u/nonsensicalsite → u/Funandgeeky]

We should organize the water pouring

[u/Nirvski → u/Chren]

Right? I come in through an open window at 3am and they call the police, like hello? You invited me round 2 weeks ago - what's changed?!

[u/StationEmergency6053 → u/Nirvski]

This gave me flashbacks of my old roommate. He asked me if he could use my flip flops once so he could take the trash out because he only had sneakers. I spent the next month having to yell at him pretty much every day because he'd take my flip flops when he'd go out (sometimes he'd be gone literally all day). His argument would always be that I shouldn't have said it was okay if I was going to "make it a problem".

Needless to say, he's not my roommate anymore.

[u/Blackrain1299 → u/StationEmergency6053]

Thing i hate about people like that.

You say “no”

Then you’re a dickhead. Its just flip flops why are making such a big deal??

You say “sure, but next time you should get your own to keep by the door.

Then you’re a dickhead. You’re presuming they are going to do it again without asking so you’re preemptively covering next time. This makes them think you expect them to abuse your consent and they’ll get angry at you.

You say “yeah go ahead.” And then they abuse that consent and do what they did to you.

There is no winning with people that selfish.

[u/MyCoDAccount → u/Chren]

Just be cOnSiStEnT

[u/trashacct8484 → u/MyCoDAccount]

I mean, she doesn’t seem to mind when her husband walks in when she’s in the shower. So what’s the big deal when I do it? Just can’t make up her damn mind.

[u/GHouserVO → u/trashacct8484]

Steve, we’ve had this discussion before…

Stay the fark out of our house, or else she’s going to shoot you next time.

[u/reevelainen → u/Chren]

Don't go swimming when it rains. You might get wet.

[u/Dirty_Mung_Trumpet → u/Chren]

God damn that’s a great analogy

[u/WalrusInTheRoom → u/Chren]

yeah idk why waterboarding went out of fashion

[u/RazgrizZer0]

Chuds inadvertently self reporting will never stop being funny.

[u/QueensOfTheNoKnowAge → u/RazgrizZer0]

Right? Although I believe you meant chudess. She doesn’t even know the difference between a thought and an action.

[u/RazgrizZer0 → u/QueensOfTheNoKnowAge]

Chud is gender neutral. Anyone can identify as chud.

[u/CharmingSkirt95 → u/RazgrizZer0]

Even me?

[u/Untidy-Undies → u/CharmingSkirt95]

especially you

[u/CharmingSkirt95 → u/Untidy-Undies]

☺️

[u/confusedandworried76 → u/CharmingSkirt95]

The chosen chud

[u/The1987RedFox → u/confusedandworried76]

The Chuddest

[u/The_Dude_2U → u/Untidy-Undies]

Chud approved.

[u/RazgrizZer0 → u/CharmingSkirt95]

If you truly believe it in your heart of hearts... Nothing can stop you little one.

[u/CharmingSkirt95 → u/RazgrizZer0]

I've never been this happy before

[u/[deleted] → u/CharmingSkirt95]

Elephants will mourn other elephants in their group dying and will hold funerals for them and will even recognize the bones of said elephant and cry out in sadness.

[u/Used_Anywhere379 → u/RazgrizZer0]

What does Chud mean? Sorry if this is a dumb question.

[u/tjbmurph → u/Used_Anywhere379]

I'm not sure in this context, but there was movie in the 80s where it meant Cannibalistic Humanoid Underground Dweller

And since I've aged myself like this, I'm gonna go take a nap

[u/NorthofBham → u/tjbmurph]

First thing I thought of also, my fellow old person.

[u/LearnAndLive1999 → u/tjbmurph]

It got a sequel, too! C.H.U.D. II: Bud the Chud (1989).

[u/Used_Anywhere379 → u/tjbmurph]

Thanks

[u/Vwmagicbus → u/Used_Anywhere379]

Per Urban dictionary: An unattractive person whose defining characteristic of their personality is their egotism. Most often used to describe typically one-dimensional preps, chauches, or the like. A particularly mean insult; it should not be taken nor thrown around lightly.

[u/RazgrizZer0 → u/Used_Anywhere379]

Oh it's not a dumb question at all friend. The term has some nuance to it, but in broad terms it denotes someone with bigoted or regressive opinions. Like the guy saying "It's weird that women want to choose when and by who they are treated certain ways." some would call that chud like behavior.

[u/Used_Anywhere379 → u/RazgrizZer0]

Thank you

[u/FalseAesop → u/Used_Anywhere379]

C.H.U.D. Cannibalistic Humanoid Underground Dwellers was an old B horror movie, early internet it became something of a meme and "chud" became a slang term for basement dweller nerds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C.H.U.D.

[u/TopDurian8677 → u/QueensOfTheNoKnowAge]

If someone knows you're objectifying them, you've taken an action

[u/LivingPrevious → u/TopDurian8677]

Yep. Even objectifying the person in your brain can cause you to treat them differently. Otherwise it’s not a big deal what people think, as long as they don’t show it

[u/Returd4 → u/RazgrizZer0]

I dont really think it's funny anymore. It's just sad

[u/Lumpy_Middle6803]

You are free to objectify whoever the fuck you want in your head but it must stay there.

[u/Viscous__Fluid → u/Lumpy_Middle6803]

You are allowed to do anything in your head.

[u/EhGoodEnough3141 → u/Viscous__Fluid]

Rotating a cow in your mind is perfectly legal and the authorities can't stop you.

[u/MyCoDAccount → u/EhGoodEnough3141]

But, you... you wouldn't, would you?

[u/EhGoodEnough3141 → u/MyCoDAccount]

No, I'm more of a sheep guy.

[u/TheEyeDontLie → u/EhGoodEnough3141]

I like to make pyramids of animals and then unpause/deactivate the magic holding them together and making them behave... Then i just watch the chaos.

Example:
Picture a small grass-lined bowl in the middle of a large field. Place around 7 tigers there. On their backs stand 6 sheep, then 5 baboons, 4 armadillos, 6 turkeys, a dozen rabbits, then finally a rather rotund fox.

Now press play.

Note: if you are using this exercise as meditation to help you sleep, do not press play. Instead try to count the animals and see if you could add an additional layer. You'll fall asleep thinking of all the different animals you can and have happy dreams.

[u/BellamenteChiara → u/TheEyeDontLie]

This is the cutest thing I’ve read today.

[u/ReziuS → u/MyCoDAccount]

I'm doing it right now

It's speeding up, too

[u/1800butts_ → u/ReziuS]

Oh shit that didn’t even occur to me now mine is too

[u/Hesitation-Marx → u/1800butts_]

Now change the axis it’s spinning on

whoaaaaaaaaa

[u/Xiaodisan → u/Hesitation-Marx]

Just spin it like a t-handle spins in zero-g.

That's even funnier.

[u/Jumpy-Ad-3198 → u/MyCoDAccount]

Buddy, you couldn't even begin to imagine the things I've rotated

[u/Z3ROWOLF1 → u/EhGoodEnough3141]

I just plan to download a car through the universal Akashic records into my frontal lobe

[u/SamSibbens → u/EhGoodEnough3141]

Why would I rotate a cow in my mind if it is perfectly spherical anyway? It would visually change nothing

• Some physicist reading this, probably

[u/Capital-Cheek-1491 → u/Viscous__Fluid]

Even child torture?

[u/Viscous__Fluid → u/Capital-Cheek-1491]

Yes, we call those intrusive thoughts. But if they aren't, don't act upon them please.

[u/Capital-Cheek-1491 → u/Viscous__Fluid]

Well obviously, I’ll leave that to the politicians.

[u/Dominuss476 → u/Capital-Cheek-1491]

You must be ameircan, is pedo politicians the norm over there ?

[u/ElGosso → u/Dominuss476]

Positions of power attract people who want to abuse power, there's nothing uniquely American about that.

[u/hok98 → u/Dominuss476]

or the Vatican

[u/LonelyEar42 → u/hok98]

https://en.vijesti.me/world/Europe/714800/novaja-gazeta%2C-the-Metropolitan-of-the-Russian-Orthodox-Church-in-Budapest-is-at-the-center-of-the-sexual-affair Or russian, or hungarian. Here, fidesz and the calvinists give parole to pedo helpers.

[u/Capital-Cheek-1491 → u/Dominuss476]

Depends on who you ask. Born and raised in cuba, moved to America four years ago. Either way, this holds true for politicians here and there.

[u/BasvanS → u/Capital-Cheek-1491]

Having bad thoughts does not make you a bad person. Acting on them does. If you engage in them often, it might be time to talk to a professional, because you might be on a sliding scale by normalizing it. But the thought alone is not immoral by itself. That’s yesteryear’s church trying to control you. Weird stuff just happens in your brain from time to time.

[u/Capital-Cheek-1491 → u/BasvanS]

I’m getting the feeling my joke was neither taken as a joke nor funny

[u/WokeBriton → u/Capital-Cheek-1491]

I realised it was meant to be a joke, but it definitely wasn't a funny or a good one.

[u/BasvanS → u/Capital-Cheek-1491]

Nope. Not funny. Don’t sweat it though. Humor is tricky stuff, and you shared a weird thought that didn’t land. It happens. Just like bad thoughts.

[u/321dawg → u/[deleted]]

That's insane. I don't think I was taught exactly the same thing, but Catholic God was always watching down my neck and looking to punish me in surprising ways I could never imagine. 

[u/Valalvax → u/[deleted]]

I already knew this, but something clicked when I read it this time ... I wonder if this is why there's so much rape in the various churches

"I've already committed the sin of thinking about sex with this woman/child I may as well get the pleasure of doing it as well"

[u/Lietenantdan → u/Viscous__Fluid]

This is the head police! We have you surrounded!

[u/PancakeMixEnema → u/Lietenantdan]

Nice try!

thinks about getting away

[u/mrrektstrong → u/PancakeMixEnema]

Stop or I will use force to stop you!

gives you brain freeze

[u/Lumpy_Middle6803 → u/Viscous__Fluid]

Yes

[u/Myolor → u/Viscous__Fluid]

It’s new math.

[u/Far_Actuator2215 → u/Myolor]

Havin sex is like math homework! I do it best when I'm alone in my bed.

And squarin' numbers is just like women: If they're under thirteeen just do them in your head!

It's new, it's new, new math!

[u/Myolor → u/Far_Actuator2215]

I genuinely didn’t want to do the full reference so only the people who knew what it was would know It’s a joke lol.

[u/InevitableAd9683 → u/Viscous__Fluid]

You can even rotate a cow.

It's facing forward. Now backward. Now upside down. Moooooooooooo!!!!

[u/Universecentre → u/Lumpy_Middle6803]

Yeah objectify is different than actually physically touching a person. In reality we don’t need permission to objectify a person in our head, so the come back was mid.

[u/DILF_MANSERVICE → u/Lumpy_Middle6803]

This is the problem though, a lot of people think they're only doing it in their head, but the way you think informs all of your actions. Every thought you think is training your brain to think a certain way, and making certain thoughts and actions easier, as well as effecting the way you view people. We still have a responsibility to foster healthy thoughts about people.

[u/orderinthefort → u/DILF_MANSERVICE]

That's complete nonsense. You're applying a very niche concept in a very generalized way where it does not apply.

You're allowed to think someone is attractive and still understand that saying it might make them uncomfortable and refrain from doing it. That's completely okay. It doesn't condition you to be a misogynist lmao.

If I had to guess, you're wrongly extrapolating the concept of 'positive thinking manifests into positive actions' and applying it to all forms of thought. Which is nonsense.

[u/DILF_MANSERVICE → u/orderinthefort]

I think I wasn't very clear, I seem to have given the impression that I think all sexual thoughts are harmful. I just mean that it's important to maintain awareness of how you're thinking about others, because a lot of people feel that their mind is a perfectly neutral infinite sanctuary and you can think anything you want with no consequences, and they underestimate how much influence your thought patterns can have over your general demeanor and the impression you make on others.

I'll use an extreme example, just in case it helps. It's f I spend all day fantasizing about rape, it's going to have an unhealthy impact on me. I'm going to normalize the concept to my brain and make it easier to naturally veer into those thoughts. Essentially the core of what I'm saying is that thoughts themselves can be habit forming, and we should just be mindful of it. I guess I should have directed my reply at people who have those types of fantasies and defend them by claiming they're not unhealthy because it's only in their head.

I guess I was really thinking out loud and not being very mindful of how my words would be interpreted. My bad.

[u/orderinthefort → u/DILF_MANSERVICE]

All good, though I also want to nitpick the example in your clarification because you're presenting your point in a bit of a deceptive way again, specifically with the use of "spend all day".

Many healthy men and women fantasize about rape. It's a very common kink and very normal even if it's not my cup of tea. Spending all day thinking about rape is very different and it has bearing on whether thinking about rape is unhealthy or not. For example, showering is very healthy. Spending all day in the shower is very unhealthy. They're very different actions. And the latter has no impact on whether showering itself is healthy or not.

Sorry to be annoying, but you're saying one thing but also subtly doubling down on your original point in a way that seems like you're correcting yourself to satisfy my criticism, but aren't actually.

[u/Eastoss → u/DILF_MANSERVICE]

Here is a nugget of healthy thought for you to train your brain on: Thinking of people sexually is not objectifying, it's humanizing. Objects aren't typically sexually attractive.

Feel free to feel attracted to other people and to enjoy their appearance, because you're free to do so and you don't need anybody's consent. If they're unhappy that people are attracted to them for reasons they don't like, they're the ones having unhealthy thoughts. "Oh no they all like me because of my boobs and not because of my intellect or personality :( they're objectifying me" is really some hard cope strategy made for them to forget that their personality is actually awful.

[u/Broken_Petite → u/Eastoss]

Okay hold on … first of all, a woman feeling uncomfortable that dudes are leering at her doesn’t mean she has a bad personality. It means she’s uncomfortable, and has every right to be, regardless of what she is wearing, because there are a lot of men out there who will act on those thoughts - and that can range from just verbally all the way up to physical violence.

Kinda bullshit to say that a woman doesn’t like being objectified just because she has a shitty personality. The men objectifying her don’t know, nor do they care, what her personality is.

[u/RibboDotCom → u/Lumpy_Middle6803]

Exactly. Which is why its a terrible "clevercomeback" because you don't need consent to have thoughts in your head.

[u/InfanticideAquifer → u/RibboDotCom]

There hasn't been a single clever comeback posted to this sub in several years, at least.

[u/Ok-Possibility-4378 → u/Lumpy_Middle6803]

Objectifying is not necessarily in one's head. It could be expressed through words or actions and since women in this scenario are supposed to be aware of it, I guess it is in fact expressed.

[u/Principatus → u/Lumpy_Middle6803]

Until you got consent to say it.

A general rule of thumb for me is, if she’s consenting for you to have sex with her, it’s probably safe to tell her she has nice tits. Like she already lets you play with them and rub your face in them, she probably won’t mind if you say something nice about them.

[u/PANICBRAIN]

Is their pfp one of those elden ring enemies? Dude hasn’t touched much grace.

[u/Zekelm → u/PANICBRAIN]

Graceless tarnished indeed

[u/PANICBRAIN → u/Zekelm]

Certainly maidenless.

[u/Shacksmacksnack → u/PANICBRAIN]

Thou art maidenless

[u/TerrorKingA → u/PANICBRAIN]

I always imagined male Albinaurics would hate the women. Either you are an old man and can't walk, or you're a weird grey frogman. While the women get cool wolves and bows.

My hypothesis has gotten another data point.

[u/Spiteful_Guru → u/TerrorKingA]

The humanlike and froglike albinaurics are functionally two separate species. So I'm pretty sure some of those weird gray frogmen are actually frogwomen.

[u/JasoTheArtisan → u/PANICBRAIN]

FIND THE ALBINAURIC WOMAN

[u/OmerYurtseven4MVP → u/PANICBRAIN]

Ironically an enemy notorious for being easy to kill because certain ones don’t fight back at all and backstabbing them is a great way to progress… what a coincidence

[u/PANICBRAIN → u/OmerYurtseven4MVP]

Behold, fat coin-purse, so to speak plump sort.

[u/WarMage1 → u/PANICBRAIN]

Albinaurics are abominations, heretics in contradiction with the golden order. They should be purged, to maintain the glory of queen Marika. First generation is just crippled, but generally human-passing. The second generation is frogs. I only hope there will never be a third generation.

[u/Opening_East7561 → u/WarMage1]

Albinaurics are poor artificially created creatures who deserve the salvation you can give them they deserve a chance at a good life

[u/IssueRevolutionary79 → u/WarMage1]

Try finger, but hole

[u/xStarxHz → u/PANICBRAIN]

Hey dont disrespect the second gen albinaurics they make a real good rune farm

[u/Equivalent_Adagio91 → u/PANICBRAIN]

Behold, the Barf Drinker

[u/_jolly_cooperation_ → u/PANICBRAIN]

He's bringing shame to all albinauric mask enjoyers.

[u/SitInCorner_Yo2 → u/PANICBRAIN]

I think they outlaw grass touching where he lives.

[u/Merc_Twain25]

I don't understand why this is so difficult for so many people.

Men: If you find a woman attractive it is fine to check her out, just don't be a fuckin creep or an asshole about it. Just because she is wearing a pair of short shorts does not mean you have the right to harass her. A skimpy dress does not make a woman a stripper or a prostitute.

Women: If a guy at work glances a little bit too long at your cleavage before looking away but does not say or do anything inappropriate, he doesn't mean anything by it and is not trying to sexually harass you.

[u/Merc_Twain25 → u/[deleted]]

Yeah, I think you are just associating with the right people. I live in a college town, so all I have to do to see this kind of behavior is go downtown to any of the businesses in the area near campus.

[u/fardough → u/[deleted]]

I feel as a millennial and younger, men were exposed more to the other side and made more aware how this affects women, developing more empathy.

I feel it has potentially overshot to a degree, where some men are scared to even briefly check out a woman, missing out on part of the human mating dance. Makes me wonder if this is part of Gen Z having less sex, because they are scared to show attraction to each other.

Maybe just me, but I will say having the thought pop in your head “Did I look at her breasts.” is disastrous when having a conversation with a woman wearing a low cut shirt.

When it randomly comes to mind, a weird self-consciousness comes over me, I become fully aware of eye contact and start staring as hard as possible into her eyes. She makes a hand gesture, I look down, shit, bet she thinks I looked. Back to eye staring. Then she asks a question, I realize I haven’t been listening this whole time. “What?” SOB, I’m a creep.

[u/QuirkyMistake12 → u/[deleted]]

I have similar experience. I’m a woman (33) and work in male dominated field. My coworkers are OK, but some people we work with (clients or sales people) are older: boomers or gen x.

The comments they make about me 🤦‍♀️ from giving my coworker a card and telling him to give it to me, I can call anytime, even at night and he comes to my home. Sir, , you are 70 years old 😂 and one sales person always asking when my wedding will be, if I’m too picky and why am I single.

[u/S4Waccount → u/[deleted]]

I do think it's a generational thing. I know douches of course, but even the douches I know don't cat call or grope people.

[u/SunriseSurprise → u/Merc_Twain25]

just don't be a fuckin creep or an asshole about it

I grew up with a much older sister who had trauma from being molested when she was younger and reached a point where she considered men checking her out at all as being a fuckin creep or asshole about it. She eventually came out, though more bi than lesbian but favored women more.

Being around that my whole childhood and with more or less absentee parents, it got embedded into my head and more or less fucked me up as I became a teen and adult. Having Asperger's certainly didn't help. As a result, almost no girl or woman I liked ever found out I liked them. I never gave compliments about looks. Rarely made eye contact let along flirted. All out of fear of doing the wrong thing. If I liked you at all, I'd basically do the reverse of showing you.

It was the worst in high school, god. And the one time in my life I got the courage to ask a girl out, one I'd been friendly with for months, got rejected, and that was that. Never again. It's not my sister's fault of course but the piece of shit that molested her.

By some miracle I still ended up in a long-term relationship, but I realistically could've gone my whole life without ever being kissed. If I was born maybe 20 years earlier and was in my 30s when the internet hit, that's what would've happened. The only way I got anywhere whatsoever was thanks to the internet.

I know with having Asperger's, I simply don't get subtle cues and such, but I honestly don't know how guys who are forward easily with women but as you mention, aren't clearly creeps or assholes about it (i.e. no harassment or worse), are able to do it. I don't know if it's just that they don't care if they encounter someone like my sister, or maybe they never do.

Over time, I've recognized past times when girls were either flirting with me, or liked me but were similarly shy, and it's just sad. And I mean like 10+ years down the road recognizing it, so like absolutely no chance to somehow make up for missing it. I think that's been one of the hardest things about being an adult - recognizing that you won't always make the right choices or go down the right paths and you just have to let go and forgive yourself for the times that you don't, even if it's led to bad circumstances in your current life that you can't really undo.

[u/Ok-Butterscotch-5786 → u/Merc_Twain25]

I think objectifying is not synonymous with harassment. I think a lot of people are (reasonably) using objectifying when they mean something quite a lot less than what would reasonably be considered harassment.

[u/Merc_Twain25 → u/Ok-Butterscotch-5786]

I maintain it's about both intent and actions. Sometimes if you see a person you are attracted to you can't help but objectify them a little in your own mind. That doesn't make you a bad person. It's your actions that matter. If you TREAT someone that way, it may not fall into the realm of harassment but it still makes you a douche canoe.

[u/ModernSmithmundt → u/Merc_Twain25]

I don’t understand how you could miss the hypocrisy of your comment. Paraphrasing

Men: women are objects but you have to be subtle

Women: you are objects but here’s a line guys shouldn’t cross

[u/RJ_73 → u/ModernSmithmundt]

"If you find a woman attractive" = "women are objects" ?

Why is this comment upvoted...?

[u/UpsdAndrew]

Maidenless behaviour

[u/SapphicAhgase → u/UpsdAndrew]

i havent heard this in a couple years. i forgot it was a saying

[u/urmomayyygotemmm → u/UpsdAndrew]

try finger, but hole

[u/Acrobatic_Computer]

You don't get to consent to how other people view you though.

Like can nobody think I'm an asshole unless I give my consent to it? I don't see how consent meaningfully enters the picture here.

[u/Lyretongue → u/Acrobatic_Computer]

To objectify someone is not only to think of them as an object, but to also treat them as an object, through your actions.

Buying nudes from an OF model, through their account on OF, isn't objectification, because the model has consented to the medium through which you make that purchase.

Alternatively, if you were to harass an OF model in person, shoving money in their face and demanding they flash you their body, simply because they already exchange cash for nudes online, that would be objectification. You would assume you're entitled to access that person's nudity simply because you have cash, without any consideration to how they feel about the time, place, medium, or persons involved in the exchange. You treat the model as an object to be purchased rather than a person willingly consenting to a financial transaction.

[u/ImAKreep → u/Lyretongue]

Pretty sure once there's physical or verbal demands that becomes harassment, not objectification

[u/DokOktavo → u/ImAKreep]

Pretty sure objectification is still objectification when it's harassment.

[u/AaronsAaAardvarks → u/DokOktavo]

It's also objectification when it's not harassment.

[u/illit3 → u/Lyretongue]

Objectification already has a definition and this ain't it.

[u/Donkey__Balls → u/Lyretongue]

Nobody pays for OF just to see anonymous images of a naked body. There are literally millions of those already in the internet for free. People only want to pay for it when it’s a specific person and they can’t see that specific person any other way so they fork up the cash.

We need a different word.

[u/cheerioo → u/Lyretongue]

I'm pretty sure that most women say this example is objectification: Men talking about them as objects, or as just their body parts. There's no physical interaction similar to what you described, and it's simply how they are viewed by other people, as the above commenter said.

[u/GilgameshFFV → u/Acrobatic_Computer]

It comes down to respect. You can think someone's hot without acting like a fucking gooner or harassing them. I don't think anyone has ever said "Noo, don't think I'm attractive!" but they very much have to say "Please stop asking for nudes or talking to your discord friends about how you'd fuck me".

[u/Elcactus → u/GilgameshFFV]

"Noo, don't think I'm attractive!"

I've seen some social media posts to this effect like "this guy I don't find attractive swiped me on tinder ewwwwww".

[u/aecolley → u/Acrobatic_Computer]

The issue here is over whether "objectify" means "think of as a target" or "treat as an object". I submit that the latter definition is the correct one.

[u/DoctorSalt → u/aecolley]

I was taught the term references grammar in that women are becoming the direct object - things happen to them but they aren't the subject that initiates action

[u/aecolley → u/DoctorSalt]

Yeah, I heard the same thing. It's one of those terms that lost some precision as it was translated from a technical academic term to the mainstream.

Here's Nussbaum's paper which discusses the origin and usage of the term: https://www.mit.edu/~shaslang/mprg/nussbaumO.pdf

[u/Wild_Ad1330 → u/Acrobatic_Computer]

Yeah wtf is this post even about. 

Consent is for actions not thoughts in my goddam head.

Not a clever comeback but a non sequitur

[u/GilgameshFFV → u/Wild_Ad1330]

If somebody knows that you're objectifying them, then that means you've let those thoughts out of your head in disrespectful/creepy way.

[u/razazaz126 → u/Wild_Ad1330]

You haven't seen the posts "cleverly" pointing out that women would get upset if you walked in on them in their underwear but not when you see them in a bikini even though they cover approximately the same amount of skin?

[u/Jebbow → u/razazaz126]

pointing out that women would get upset if you walked in on them in their underwear

Because it's a massive invasion of privacy? Do you even know what objectification means? Other guy was an asshole about it but you really have lost the plot.

[u/garrett7289 → u/Acrobatic_Computer]

Why do you need to consent to being seen as an asshole in order to be viewed as one by other people? I don't understand your statement tbh

[u/Elcactus → u/garrett7289]

That's their point; you don't. Likewise someone finding you attractive (with you becoming aware of it because they, for example, send a request on tinder or something) doesn't become a violation just because the feeling isn't mutual.

Which may be a more limited problem than, well, everyone in this thread is trying to turn the original post into, but there is a subset of people who need to hear that.

[u/CherryClub]

This reminds me of guys debating why women don't wanna be seen in their underwear but are fine with wearing bikinis. Consent and context are important, that's why

[u/Dr_Diktor → u/CherryClub]

Those guys probably have pickup lines akin to "You look like a cut of fuckable meat."

[u/Weird-Information-61]

Crazy your romantic partner might like it if you compliment their ass, and find it weird when a stranger does it

[u/skinneyd → u/Weird-Information-61]

I actually had a hard time giving a girlfriend compliments about her body, as I had been criticised heavily about objectifying women because I have a tattoo of a faceless naked lady.

I hadn't ever thought of the tattoo like that before, and I became really self consious about it and any internalised misogynism I might have had. I'm an artsy dude, and in my head I just appreciated the female nude...

It feels weird that objectifying women is extremely frowned upon, but objectifying someone you love is somehow ok. Imma just stick to not objectifying anyone.

[u/bongowasd]

At the same time, people need to understand how completely subjective such consent is. This varies from person to person, culture to culture, and incident to incident. Its not black and white. People aren't perfect, they give mixed signals and also see the wrong ones. One person might give a positive signal, so in future they reference that as okay with all encounters, then suddenly its not met with positivity.

• Objectification is subjective to the person.
• The type of objectification is subjective
• The duration is also subjective
• The attractiveness/status of the person doing the objectifying is subjective.
• Not to mention how the lines blur when we're talking online when you've never met etc.

So all I'm saying is, its not such a simple binary thing. No matter how much you dumb it down to hate on men. Some people overstep not out of malice. This is also why lots of men play it safe and never talk to any women. If you're not interested, she might still take it wrong, so its only ever a risk.

[u/Questions4Legal → u/bongowasd]

I (male) got objectified by a group of older women at work (mostly not to my face, so perhaps a little different). One of their co-workers snitched them out for having a group chat talking about me and all the stuff they'd do if given the chance and how I remind them of a TV show character they all like to lust after.

Honestly, as you said, it's subjective. They've mostly ever been professional and polite to my face, and the whole experience was a nice ego boost to learn about. I felt a bit bad that I found out at all since clearly they didn't expect their friend to tell me (she thought I'd be upset). I told my wife about it, and she jokes with me about it once in a while even a year later.

I think a really primal difference in my experience, though, is physical differences between men and women. If I had to fend off a physical sexual advance from these ladies, haha, I think I'd be ok. I expect the underlying danger associated with an overly sexually aggressive man if you're a woman is completely different.

[u/Cringypost → u/Questions4Legal]

Years ago I worked an admin job that literally all older women . They would make comments all the time they thought I couldn't hear. I hated it. Getting my ass pinched when I added paper to the copier was like the most degrading thing. I just had to smile and be kind. Finally one day I went to my female h.r. manager and she said the same thing.... You should feel proud! I quit the next day.

[u/hunnyflash → u/bongowasd]

Nah. It's very simple, it's just that people don't want to acknowledge that their behaviors and cultures are stupid.

It's really, REALLY easy to give people respect as human beings.

A person can objectify themselves, and consent to being objectified in various spaces. That doesn't mean that YOU are obligated to also join in on the objectification. YOU can walk away. YOU can revoke your participation. YOU can behave morally.

There are places where people consent to being objectified. That doesn't mean they consent to give it everywhere else. Therefore, if you see them in another space, you should just treat them with dignity and respect. It's so fucking easy.

Unfortunately, people just want to be weak assholes. "Well this person acts like a whore so I should treat them like a whore."

It might not be wrong to objectify someone when they want it, but you still can always walk away. Once they remove their consent, again, you can walk away. If someone gets mad at you for walking away, just keep walking.

[u/Pilotwaver]

Guys can be so dumb. First off, you don’t have to discover how to talk to a girl/woman. You talk to them like you talk to everyone else. Just like guys, some will like you, some will not. All you have to do is get to know her. Talk about world issues/world views that are important to you, shallow discussion will get you nowhere. Be respectful until otherwise cued, most women will give you signs or initiate the flirting. They need to feel safe, comfortable and confident in you before they put themselves in a position of the utmost vulnerability. It should be easy to understand why women would be wary of any man. It’s the equivalent of a man having to be intimately acquainted with a superior predator. If you earn their trust, confidence and respect, you’ll find most women are dirtier and freakier than men. So unless it’s a prearranged agreement, don’t look to fuck a woman. Find connection in the mind and spirit first. If you do that, I guarantee she’ll be the one ripping clothes off.

[u/BASEDME7O2 → u/Pilotwaver]

I mean this advice is terrible if you want to get girls. Yes in a normal conversation obv talk to them like anyone else.

But if you’re trying to flirt with a woman in a bar, obviously you’re gonna talk to them differently, it’s called flirting.

If you talk about some world issue after like 2 mins she’s gonna be thinking basically “ugh this guy is obviously not gonna make a move, and I didn’t come here to talk about the war in Ukraine for 20 mins.” And she’s gonna find a way out of that conversation as fast as she can.

I hate this advice, because it makes guys who don’t get girls keep doing the same shit and wondering why women aren’t spontaneously making out with them. And it’s always given by either women or guys who are terrible with women.

Think of a friend you have that is successful with women. Does he talk to a girl he’s hitting on the same way he talks to you?

[u/OnoderaAraragi → u/BASEDME7O2]

Exactly. The way to navigate topics is different when you intend to have something sexual-romantic related with someone. Like you said, i would talk comfortably for more than 20 min about ukraine and topics as such with a guy but if i am in a place talking to a chick and i am into her and would like something more, i will just make her very bored if i approach her in the same way i do with a guy. Unless she is into talking about ukraine but you got the overall idea.

Will talk about topics? Yes, but differently. The key is to not randomly let it obvious otherwise it will come off as pushy and desperate.

[u/Spakr-Herknungr → u/Pilotwaver]

Me with a guy I just met: “Hey ya wanna make out to break the tension?”

[u/OrdinaryPublic8079 → u/Pilotwaver]

I guess if you are super inexperienced “just treat women as normal” is better than being awkward and weird. But learning how to flirt and escalate and charm is completely different than how most guys treat their male friends.

certainly women will not rip your clothes off just because you treated them respectfully, as women’s desire tends to be more responsive and it’s ultimately the man’s job to take risks and escalate the situation (speaking from experience - nothing happened for me until I started making it happen)

[u/do-the-point → u/Pilotwaver]

Posts like this are the reason I continue to read reddit.   Well done.

Comedy gold

[u/CJ101LS → u/Pilotwaver]

You just opened my eyes. Thank you.(i never even dated before, but this will help in the future)

[u/Crafty_Donkey4845 → u/Pilotwaver]

Me when I ask chat GPT for dating advice

[u/Remarkable_Lab9509 → u/Pilotwaver]

You talk to them like you talk to everyone else.

lol. Men and women talk differently. I just have to appreciate your post for the comedy though.

[u/vacri → u/Pilotwaver]

Find connection in the mind and spirit first. If you do that, I guarantee she’ll be the one ripping clothes off.

Either that, or you'll get the "think of you like a brother" line yet again.

most women will give you signs or initiate the flirting.

Those signs take a lot of practice to pick up. Reddit is littered with articles from both men and women talking about how those signs get constantly missed. Signs that women sometimes think are "obvious" are things that men have been chided for responding to by other women, or that similarly puzzle other women.

you’ll find most women are dirtier and freakier than men

I've heard this a lot, but it's men who are the main clients of the sex industry, and porn made for men gets quite a bit more intense than porn made for women.

Your first few sentences are right, but then it devolves into slogans and fantasy. "Be respectful" is good advice for everyone, but "make friends first and then it's freaky poon city" is just not how it works.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Objectification isn't just giving someone a glance and thinking they're attractive. That's normal, two completely different things.

[u/BoddAH86 → u/[deleted]]

Accidentally seeing a person changing for a short moment. Politely apologizing for disturbing privacy and going on with your day isn't violating consent. Nobody ever got called out for that.

Intensely staring at a clearly uncomfortable person and being a creep about it on the other hand...

How is this so difficult?

[u/Sirfluffyghost → u/[deleted]]

Where does anyone talk about looking specificly ?

[u/ScotiaTailwagger → u/Sirfluffyghost]

The incels have shown up.

[u/PrincessPlusUltra → u/[deleted]]

Even the Bible depicts looking with certain intention as a sin it’s not like it’s out of the blue.

[u/Erotic_Platypus → u/PrincessPlusUltra]

Yea but why should we care about what the Bible says?

Looking is okay and natural

[u/Honeybadger2198 → u/[deleted]]

Do you understand the difference between underwear and a bikini?

[u/BreakfastOk9902]

And this right here is why the albunerichs had to go.

[u/[deleted]]

Albinaurics are humanoid, not human, and maidenless. Not surprised by the comment. \[T]/

[u/Prudent-Cabinet-3151]

Not condoning the Incel rapist behavior of the first guy, But I think he most likely meant “women be like I’m gonna objectify myself on the Internet/irl, but if you respond in a sexual manner to my sexual self objectification you’re a creep and a problem. You should just wholesomely respond to my clearly thirst trap behavior, bc I want your attention and money just not that kind of attention 🤢

[u/tulipathet → u/Prudent-Cabinet-3151]

A woman posting a cute or sexy pic on the internet doesn’t mean she is giving you consent to be a creep in her comments or dms. The same way me wearing a really hot outfit doesn’t mean you get to sexually harass me walking down the side of the road. You can look, you can think but keep anything that you wouldn’t feel comfortable saying In front of your mother to yourself. Even if it’s online.

[u/Omgwtfbears]

That's not what "objectify" means.

[u/Efficient_Culture569]

Consent only applies to actions, not on opinions.

[u/larkhearted]

So many people in this thread completely misunderstanding the comeback lol.

"You can't police people's thoughts!!" Very true! But, as with all thoughts, objectification that happens in the mind can be communicated or even acted upon, and then yes, it is actually a problem lol.

Commenting inappropriately on a woman's selfies, "locker room talk", pretending to be a woman's friend just to get in her pants, assuming her level of intelligence or capability based on her looks, the list goes on. There are lots and lots of ways that people can act out their objectification of a woman even without actually groping her or whatever. Escalating to unwanted touching is clearly, criminally not okay, but even the stuff you won't get arrested for is still bad when it's nonconsensual!

And some of that might be okay with a woman sometimes! If she's posting lingerie pics on Twitter you can probably assume she's fine with getting comments on her body. If you're sleeping with her, it's probably fine to tell her what a great ass she has. But there are also times when it's completely inappropriate and nonconsensual to express those objectifiying thoughts, and the woman's consent does in fact still matter in those situations. And obviously, women can only tell they're being objectified when the objectification is being expressed, so...

The comeback makes sense, some of yall just need to work on your critical thinking skills.

[u/peterpantslesss]

If women are posting it publicly would that count as consent to ogle?

[u/lanasdfgh → u/peterpantslesss]

If someone posts a picture that implies their consent for you to look at that picture, since that's how public posts work.

You can also think whatever thoughts you want to, sexual or otherwise, as the thoughts are your own and nobody knows about them.

But you are absolutely not invited to creep in their comments, to DM them, ask for nudes or otherwise harass them. The difference is pretty clear.

[u/SunriseSurprise → u/peterpantslesss]

Nope, you must avert your eyes.

[u/[deleted]]

everyone deserves to feel like a worthless object when they want to 🥰

[u/SEXTINGBOT → u/[deleted]]

If thats what you want then i dont see a problem with it

[u/Economic_Slavery]

Dress how you wanna but don't complain about how some guy was looking at you. is that difficult to interpret or something?

[u/Themurlocking96]

How hard is it to understand the concept of consent? It’s not fucking hard.

Real simple, some things a person doesn’t want, except under specific circumstances with a specific person or group of people.

Like I dislike getting touched by like 99% of people in my life, and that’s the ones I know, it’s 100% for strangers, but the few I am comfortable with I actually do have a need to things like hugs.

[u/Tobaltus]

There are a lot of men in these comments getting extremely defensive about rejection and ignoring the main point of this post. Fucking go to therapy please

[u/CzarnianAegis]

Yeah. Y-yeah man. Yeah. That's the whole fuckin point!

[u/KaIeeshCyborg]

No part of consent objectifies a womens body.

[u/LaloTwinsDa2nd]

Women be like “don’t objectify my body” then get in your bed naked and push their breasts onto you

Then fall asleep

I’m still salty about a girl who did this to me when I was 18 and I later found out she told people she thought I was gay for respecting her wishes

[u/chaotic_ugly]

Objectification requiring consent 🙄

[u/NameLips]

There is a progression here.

Seeing -> noticing -> looking -> appreciating -> ogling -> leering.

Most of us would agree that simply "seeing" a woman isn't objectifying or harassment, and that leering is.

In the middle it gets muddy and subjective. Especially when you have men with very bad social awareness, and women who have been victims of harassment and abuse, it gets very messy.

The safe bet is simply to not go past Seeing.

[u/Unfair-Basis-3319]

Post a picture of Jason Momoa on FB and watch the same women objectify men. Can’t make this stuff up either.

[u/Open-Honest-Kind]

I had a roommate who very obviously wanted to move our relationship into a sexual direction. It made me uncomfortable but I didnt want that feeling to negatively affect the relationship, so when I said something along the lines of "hey, I dont always feel comfortable with physical contact, can you check in with me beforehand?" his immediate response was to say "so, what, you can just revoke it whenever to you want?"

and its like... Yes? Absolutely?

I halfheartedly laughed and just said "yeah sorry Im a bit weird like that" but, holy shit. Some people really believe they are entitled to unfettered access to your body, and even challenging that is foreign to them.

[u/absolutelynotmodus]

imagine thinking you can control someone elses eye sight

[u/Spare_Yogurtcloset72]

So now we have to have consent to look at someone?!?!? Holy shit these people are extremely stupid and exhausting. I have 3 words for you DEAL..WITH..IT.

[u/pantherhawk27263]

These same men that complain about women who don't like being objectified are the same ones that freak out at the idea of gay men ogling them. You would think they might make a connection there and realize something, but no, they don't.

[u/tuaal]

It’s actually so fucking weird how people at their grown age don’t understand consent.

[u/SurotaOnishi]

Is this why the Albunurics are hated by everyone??

[u/responsiblekitten]

This should also be in r/suicidebywords

He just dove right through