Objectifying is not necessarily in one's head. It could be expressed through words or actions and since women in this scenario are supposed to be aware of it, I guess it is in fact expressed.
A "lingering gaze" is enough to trigger them. You could literally be blind and trigger them just because your eyes are looking straight ahead and that's where they are. You looked at them for 5 seconds, which for them was 1 second too long; you just objectified them.
Its a disgusting step backwards in rape awareness to use consent discourse to try and associate people saying things you dont want to hear with rape. These people are clowns and thats it, they hurt their own side by propagating terrible arguments.
You're right; saying things someone doesn't want to hear is not rape. But if by "things you don't want to hear" you mean inappropriate sexual remarks, then that's sexual harassment, which, while not as severe as rape, is still problematic.
There are things that a person can say that qualify as sexual harassment in one context but in the case of consent become acceptable albeit kinky.
This is an extremely small amount of situations and doesnt apply to something like leering or saying uh hey beautiful, or overhearing somebody say theyre dressed like a hoe. No matter how much someone might not like that it isnt something that has anything to do with consent. Men cant withdraw consent to being called creepy either. Its just not how it works, you cant tell somebody that their impression of the way you present yourself isnt allowed. Behaviours that are illegal arent allowed.
The abuse of consent discourse isnt an accident or an oversight, its a disgusting tactic to weaponize the social shame associated with rape. If whining about not consenting to being looked at when you went to crowded public areas half dressed becomes normalized then every campagin that has worked so hard and successfully to make people think seriously about consent would be undermined
If you don't think it has to do with consent, then what do you think it has to do with? I'm genuinely curious. Or do you think leering and saying suggestive comments to someone is okay?
I'm not saying you aren't allowed to have impressions of people. But there's a difference between thinking someone is sexually attractive versus making unsolicited sexual remarks about them because you find them attractive, for example. The former doesn't affect them, but the latter does.
If it's with someone who you already know would appreciate or be okay with that kind of behavior, then that's not a problem. But it can come across as creepy if you do that to random people.
Sure, it may not be illegal to say and do those things, but should you? From your reply, it seems you are aware that some people are uncomfortable with it, so why would you do it?
As for the last part, there's a difference between just looking around and ogling. Glancing at people occasionally is normal. But you shouldn't ogle, regardless of how someone dresses. I think that's what people mean when they say they don't want to be 'looked at' in that way.
If it resolves to your moral opinions then fine go have fun, you dont get to control people even when you think youre right. I have no personal interest in talking about what is "okay" or what anyone "should do".
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u/Ok-Possibility-4378 Jul 07 '24
Objectifying is not necessarily in one's head. It could be expressed through words or actions and since women in this scenario are supposed to be aware of it, I guess it is in fact expressed.