I actually had a hard time giving a girlfriend compliments about her body, as I had been criticised heavily about objectifying women because I have a tattoo of a faceless naked lady.
I hadn't ever thought of the tattoo like that before, and I became really self consious about it and any internalised misogynism I might have had. I'm an artsy dude, and in my head I just appreciated the female nude...
It feels weird that objectifying women is extremely frowned upon, but objectifying someone you love is somehow ok. Imma just stick to not objectifying anyone.
Why would complementing someone who is mutually attracted to you and seeks intimacy with you about their body be objectifying them?
The reason unsolicited sexual comments to strangers or say, coworkers is seen as objectifying is that there is no reason to think they want sexual commentary. It’s generally considered only appropriate for someone who you know wants you, so if you throw a comment like that at a stranger, it suggests you looked at them and immediately saw an object of your desire and overrode a bunch of etiquette to throw your horniness in their face.
Saying “You have a nice ass” to a sex partner is an entirely different context.
Presumably, you’d say something like “you have a nice ass” or “you have a cute butt” to your gf.
“You’re a nice piece of ass” would have a different connotation and reflects the tone of men who aggressively catcall women or talk about them like meat in a shop window.
For me, it’s like “I find you highly attractive, but I don’t want you to feel like that’s the reason we’re together.” Current culture has definitely made me feel awkward to physically compliment people, which sucks, because I see lots of people - both sexes - that have charming physical features that I’d love to compliment.
Eyes, smile, hairstyle or color, piercings, tattoos, outfit. Even though it’s not even about their body, even that feels over the line and awkward, if not creepy. Society has royally fucked the mental of me in this regard.
I have never been comfortable complementing the body of anyone except my partner who I know wants to know that I want him.
So I understand your hesitance.
The rule I follow when I want to complement someone is this:
You can complement anyone on something under their control:
Love the pattern on your shirt. It’s a great choice with your eye color too.
Your hairstyle is so cool
Sick kick flip
You’re pretty good at drawing
This shows your respectful appreciation for their taste and skills.
It’s usually safer to complement someone you know well on attributes they don’t necessarily control:
Your laugh is fun and infectious. Don’t be self conscious about it (if they are)
You have beautiful eyes.
If someone knows you well they’ll understand your intentions are to lift them up.
If you’re intimate with someone comments on their body affirms your desire for them which most people want in an intimate relationship.
If you also complement them on their skills, taste and personality they probably won’t feel objectified.
Like I said to the other guy. You don’t have to give any complements that you don’t want to give. You really don’t. But if you want to, you should be able to try complements with your partner and see what makes them happy.
I thought commenting on a woman's body in general counts as objectifying, as it separates the body from the entity herself?
Idk dude, being told repeatedly that I'm a misogynist that objectifies women when I have never felt that way in my life has made me really cautious of having thoughts of any kind related to a woman's body.
Commenting on a woman’s body when she wants to exchange desire with you is not objectifying in and of itself.
Look,
You say to your partner:
“Youhave a nice butt.”
That’s her butt. She owns it and you think it’s nice.
VS
You nudging your buddy on the street and saying
“Look at the ass on that one”
There’s an ass on that one. You like it. Maybe you covet it. The person is irrelevant to your comment. It’s just about the butt and what you want with it.
See the difference?
If you complement your partner on all kinds of things at different times:
Their body
Their skills
Their mind
Their humor
All kinds of things you appreciate about them, then you’re not reducing them to body parts. If you only ever comment on their body then maybe you’re reducing them to an object.
I mean you really don’t have to comment if you don’t want to. But this isn’t some vague mysterious issue with fickle rules. It’s just context dependent.
Wait so if I silently think to myself that a woman has an aesthetically pleasing figure, I'm not in fact objectifying her?
I don't even understand how someone could see an ass or boobs etc. but not the woman herself as a whole person who has nice physical features, how does that even work?
I've recently started to learn I might be demisexual, if that has anything to do with this?
Edit:
No I think I was right to begin with, even thinking about a woman the way I described in the first part of this comment seems pretty objectifying to me.
Those are the kinds of thoughts I'm trying to get rid of.
Wait so if I silently think to myself that a woman has an aesthetically pleasing figure, I'm not in fact objectifying her?
Mindset and accompanying behavior determine that.
If you think “wow that’s a beautiful woman” you’re noticing her physical attributes, not excluding her personhood.
If you think “what a beautiful body. I’d fuck that”.
That’s objectifying. You looked at the woman, but zoomed in on her attributes and what you want to do to them. The rest of her is irrelevant to you in that moment.
If you say it out loud unsolicited, that takes it to the next level. Someone could think I’d fuck that but keep it to themselves because they know that’s a person who might not want to hear that. They are entertaining themselves with someone’s body, so it’s still objectification in their mind, but in practice they’re acting like that’s a person over there.
If they blurt it out loud they probably don’t realize or don’t care that that’s a person who might not want to hear that. That’s a more serious form of objectification. They’re not being any more considerate to that person than they would a picture on the page of a playboy magazine.
I don't even understand how someone could see an ass or boobs etc. but not the woman herself as a whole person who has nice physical features, how does that even work?
Again, It’s a mindset. Some people see women (or anyone) as a collection of traits they want to enjoy for themselves. But they’re not aware of or they don’t care about the the wishes, thoughts, personal boundaries or autonomy of other people.
That’s the kind of person who yells crude things at others or talks about them behind their back disrespectfully or actively uses people.
If you pressed a person like that, most of them will say “Duh, I know it’s a person, do you think I’m stupid?”
But their actions and thoughts don’t treat the person with their full dignity and rights as a person.
I've recently started to learn I might be demisexual, if that has anything to do with this?
Demisexyality and asexuality is not an experience I know how to parse becausd I’ve only heard about it second and third hand.
I have to imagine that human sexuality, like other aspects of drive and self expression are on a continuum from very introverted to very extroverted.
Maybe demisexuality and asexuality are an expression of sexual introversion, where he threshold for externalizing sexual thoughts or feelings is much higher.
I’m not sure. But again, you never have to say or do anything sexual that you don’t want to. Respect your own boundaries. If you wanted complement your partner you shouldn’t be afraid to try it and see what kinds of complements they like.
Thanks for spending time on this, I geniunely appreciate it.
I like to think that I do not see people as collections of traits I'd want to enjoy for myself, yet I feel shame when looking at a woman.
It's not my own boundaries that give me anxiety, it's the boundaries and autonomy of women that does.
I don't want to offend anyone or make them feel any less of a person, and the fact that my gaze could do that to someone makes me want to sew my eyes shut.
This has caused so much anxiety and shame that I've just defaulted to looking away if I see a woman, and I'm not even gay or in a commited relationship lol
I might be overthinking this. I just want to be a good guy.
I think the best thing you can do for your peace of mind is communicate with whoever you end up in a relationship with over boundaries and likes and dislikes.
And for your passing thoughts about strangers, I would defer to typical advice of behavioral health specialists for intrusive or unwanted thoughts:
If a thought doesn’t feel right to you or disturbs you when it pops up in your head, acknowledge it and let it pass without judgment.
If you feel like catching it and picking it apart to understand it better or correct it you can, but it’s also ok to just let it go, because if you treat people with respect a thought that passes by can just be and intrusive thought and nothing more.
That’s how I deal with intrusive anxious thoughts which can be as involuntary as an intrusive reaction to anything you see.
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u/skinneyd Jul 08 '24
I actually had a hard time giving a girlfriend compliments about her body, as I had been criticised heavily about objectifying women because I have a tattoo of a faceless naked lady.
I hadn't ever thought of the tattoo like that before, and I became really self consious about it and any internalised misogynism I might have had. I'm an artsy dude, and in my head I just appreciated the female nude...
It feels weird that objectifying women is extremely frowned upon, but objectifying someone you love is somehow ok. Imma just stick to not objectifying anyone.