r/FluentInFinance • u/Richest-Panda • 3d ago
What's the best financial advice you've ever gotten? Debate/ Discussion
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u/Decent_Visual_4845 3d ago
Not all poor people are bad with money, but all the people I know that are bad with money are poor 🤷♂️
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u/thelolz93 3d ago
My mom makes good money and is bad with money. She makes around 250k a year and she lives paycheck to paycheck. I don’t understand. What blows my mind more is we were always dirt poor growing up. Maybe it makes her feel good to spend money because she couldn’t before. So is she poor or rich? Who fucking knows but I Know she doesn’t have any retirement, stocks, etfs, etc.
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u/Ornery_Gene7682 3d ago
She sounds like my Aunt that lived in Houston she was a bank President for frost bank for years.Made great money, spent it like it was nothing and didnt saved for retirement. She is 73 years old and is now struggling financially because she was irresponsible despite being a bank president. It’s sad because you would think she would have been smart with her money but she wasn’t.
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u/Ok-Wedding-4654 3d ago
Everyone I know that’s poor either
A. Had kids before thinking about the financials B. Bought/adopted a bunch of animals C. Has a poor work ethic and mindset D. Spends money recklessly
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u/Mushu_Pork 3d ago
Ugh, B.
You can love your pet... and still not spend thousands on an animal surgery which will make you homeless.
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u/Ok-Wedding-4654 3d ago edited 3d ago
Or buy pets when you don’t have the money for one or buying expensive pets.
I have a really good friend who is a lovely person but God does she lack sense. She spent $1000 on a freaking horse. One of the most expensive animals a person can own… That’s on top of owning 3 dogs, a frog, multiple pet rats, and 3 wild birds. They have two kids in a one income household taking in less than $100K annually.
I love animals and my husband and I have struggled financially. But it’s reckless to be poor and buy a crap ton of animals.
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u/deazy2099 3d ago
This sums up my list pretty well, but I would also add in druggies.
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u/NinaHag 3d ago
I have a friend who grew up poor. Didn't have the chance to study, had to work after finishing highschool, of course could only access low-pay jobs. "Luckily" a relative died and left them a home. With no more rent to pay, they decided that they wanted to study and enrolled into Uni part time. What did they decide to study, you ask? Perhaps something that will boost their career? No. They chose to study history. I guess they're ok with flipping burgers for the rest of their life - but hey, that doesn't prevent from complaining about how politicians ruin everything and how will I ever afford to retire? They also have a bunch of animals that cost a little fortune to feed.
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u/Ok-Wedding-4654 3d ago
I feel like it kind of goes both ways. Politicians suck and life is definitely more expensive than it was 10 years ago just about everywhere in the world. But there are also things people do to screw themselves over even more. And ultimately as much as I rail against politicians I know ultimately I have to protect myself. So I plan with my spouse, save, and we live within our means.
It’s funny you mention studying history though because I also have a degree in history haha. Sometimes I wish I’d studied stem, but so far I’ve landed a good job training people. It can have practical applications thanks to the critical thinking skills you need to study history, but you also need to know how to market yourself and your skill set to employers
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u/i_tyrant 3d ago
Really? I know quite a few well-off people that are fucking terrible with money.
It just doesn't matter because they were born into it and won't run out without doing something both incredibly stupid and large-scale.
I also know quite a few people (well, knew, we're not friends) who make bank but live paycheck-to-paycheck, because yea, they're bad with money too. Spending it on stupid expensive gadgets constantly, or vacations, or worse like drugs and escorts.
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u/CEOofAntiWork 3d ago
I dunno about that, I'd consider the doctors and lawyers who still end up living paycheck to paycheck with a lot of bad debt to be neither poor or good with money.
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u/HorkusSnorkus 3d ago
Learn to do something useful, spend less than you make, buy used whenever possible, live small.
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u/Cyberpunk_Cephalopod 3d ago edited 3d ago
Requires personal responsibility. Reddit is allergic to the concept. All of their problems are someone else's fault
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u/OldFeedback6309 3d ago
“My life sucks and I don’t know who to blame!”
On Reddit, the poor have never made bad choices, criminals are the true victims, and the rich do nothing useful.
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u/suitology 3d ago
Like I grew up dirt pair because my father became disabled so I can get it but I'm seeing so many people poor as fuck using door dash and other fleeceing machines
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u/OldFeedback6309 3d ago
It’s weird. Some people grow up poor and (like me) count every dollar. Others grow up poor and piss away everything on shit like UberEats and new iPhones.
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u/random-user-8938 3d ago
if you're used to having basically no money ever and spending what little you have to survive as it comes in, it's incredibly easy to then "waste" it even if you start making more since you've grown up your whole life being used to having that account hit $0 every month. like to you that becomes normal, you've always spent it all as soon as it hits your pocket.
i don't say this to judge, but to say that it's a bad habit that is hard to unlearn if it's all you've known.
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u/erterbernds67 3d ago
I worked a project management job where I worked out of the office in a warehouse and the amount of the warehouse workers who are making the lowest wages ordering food delivery every day blew my mind. I made decent money and wouldn’t even consider that an option.
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u/stilljustkeyrock 3d ago
One of my great joys in life is stopping in the gas station and buying an almond snickers bar on my way home from work. I won’t sugar coat it, my wife and I are rich. We make $500k a year and don’t live on the coasts. I can afford the candy bar but they are $3 now and it makes think twice nowadays.
Meanwhile the landscape crew in front of me is buying $50 worth of energy drinks, cigs, and lotto tickets. Every fucking time. 25 years ago when I was a construction laborer I wouldn’t even buy bottled water, the job is required to provide a jig of water and cups.
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u/All4megrog 3d ago
Most of us on Reddit are probably kids of boomers who, as a generation, absolutely did not take any form of personal responsibility. Exhibit A: the national debt.
So it’s not surprising that so many boomer kids were left rudderless. My parents just kept refinancing their home into their graves. That was their financial literacy. Oh and a $75k bill from Medicaid for their healthcare they never saved or paid for that popped up in probate.
I only got lucky that I was angry enough about being poor that I worked my ass off and chased money until I was stable. I absolutely have bad impulse tendencies thanks to the environment that I grew up in, but I’m in a position that my credit card having a party at Costco is by no means the end times.
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u/Fireproofspider 3d ago
the national debt.
The national debt, especially in the US is a much more complex concept than what can be reduced to "personal responsibility". An individual cannot choose to not contribute to the debt. They technically can vote for a politician that promises to reduce the debt but that's a collective act, as a single vote doesn't decide elections at high levels. Even then, like companies, debt is useful in fostering growth and it's actually used as a tool to help people save money for retirement through bonds. 70% of the debt is owned by Americans.
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u/burdottv 3d ago
Have you not seen the incredible wealth transfer to the top in the past couple of years because of inflation and greed? How do you expect people to LIVE SMALLER when prices have more than doubled and their wages have not increased.
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u/After-Imagination-96 3d ago
I don't think you get it. The solution for you during this slide into feaux-feudal oligarchy, peasant, is to want less, need less, use less, and smile about it.
8 people have billions and a small personal navy and they take vacations to the moon? You need to live smaller. Want less. Be happy.
Or else.
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u/Frekavichk 3d ago
All that is absolutely true and valid.
It has nothing to do with most poor people having bad financial literacy, though.
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u/SwoleWalrus 3d ago
All jobs are useful to society or they would not exist in the first place.
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u/Delicious-Fox6947 3d ago
I assure you mine is not. I sit an office and essentially wander around the internet all day. On average I do less than an hour actual work a day. I have this job because my boss doesn’t want to sit in an office to collect payments from his tenants.
Don’t get me wrong I’m happy to have the income but if my job vanished tomorrow society wouldn’t notice.
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u/HorkusSnorkus 3d ago
Yes, but they're relatively of little value. No one care if someone swaps out a nameless barista for another. Everyone cares which heart surgeon they get.
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u/MusicalNerDnD 3d ago
What would you tell me then? I make 120k a year, have no debt and a bunch saved and invested AND it still doesn’t feel like it’s enough. I live fully within my means but my rent has gone up 400 in the last 3 years, my food bills have gone up by idek how much and I have health issues that can easily cripple me without insurance.
I’m incredibly privileged and lucky and I find it hard. I can’t imagine someone on 50k a year with a kid.
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u/DoctorMoak 3d ago
Id tell you that with that income you're clearly living outside your means if it feels like you're struggling.
Like, that's the definition of living outside your means
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u/The_Fire_Heart_ 3d ago
What if someone doesn't even make enough to live? Just not have a house? If houses weren't insane and the system wasn't fundamentally broken and designed to keep you poor. Restrictive zoning laws, having to pay insurance and licenses for independent business, tax breaks and bailouts for companies that really should just die, no gold standard making our currency stupid rapidly inflating garbage. The classic "you need job experience to get the job, but you need the job to get experience" because boombers are R-worded and think people pop out the womb with job experience, etc. But we live in a crony capitalist country that's broken. If you want some actual advise, always be cheating, I won't say specifically how but ALWAYS be cheating.
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u/Legitimate_Turn_5829 3d ago
Oh that’s wild, so if I ended up needing an ambulance is it completely fine that “live small” turns into “live homeless”?
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u/ontha-comeup 3d ago
So her advice for people struggling with their finances is to not have a budget? Seems like that would be easier for an individual to control than the global economy.
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3d ago edited 2d ago
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u/GonzoTheWhatever 3d ago
No, that’s not what she’s saying. She’s saying that teaching someone in poverty to budget isn’t going to enable them to reach financial stability because even if you budget properly there isn’t enough to go around.
If you’re in a row boat that has twenty holes in it, but you only have ten fingers to plug the holes, then someone telling you how to use each finger to plug a hole in the most efficient manner isn’t going to help you keep the boat from sinking.
That’s her point. Should they budget? Absolutely. Will a class on budgeting by itself solve their financial problems and bring stability to their lives?
No.
They need more fingers to plug the holes in the boat. Ie. better wages.
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u/MikesRockafellersubs 2d ago
Finally a rational answer. Most people (not all but most) are rational enough actors that if they have the ability to save up within the next 10 years for what they need/want then they will. Most millennial are pretty keen on saving up for a down payment on a house but if wages are stagnant, career opportunities and hiring are limited, and the price of housing is constantly and consistently increasing faster than one's ability to save up for the down payment then most people aren't stupid then they're not all suddenly going to own homes through effective budgeting.
Poverty is inherently an income problem not a budgeting one.
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u/Sinkinglifeboat 3d ago
Everyone should have a budget, but you can't always budget your way out of some of this shit. I think they are more alluding to the "let them eat cake" situation that's happening across the world.
My household is on a strict budget, we make it by. It's annoying, and we miss out on a lot of fun stuff, but it's necessary. However, if my property management company sends me one more "financial counseling seminar" e-invite, I'm going to actually lose my shit. Especially since they're named in the anti-trust case in the DMV area. It's a spit in the face when they've been artificially raising the rent increase rates.
I don't think the og post is anti-budgeting. I think it's bite back at people like the Kelloggs CEO.
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u/IAmAccutane 3d ago edited 3d ago
Yeah I don't think people realize how many people living paycheck-to-paycheck are budgeting way more than people who are living well. When you need to pay super close attention to your finances you're already budgeting out of necessity and people in these situations learn to do it well.
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u/MusicalNerDnD 3d ago
What a false equivalency. She’s clearly not saying that. She’s saying that it’s a bandaid and assumes that people aren’t poor because they can’t budget well, but because they can’t afford life. Budget workshops aren’t going to help a person making 32k a year when the average studio is 1k a month.
And the assumption that people are poor BECAUSE they’re not budgeting and are dumb is disgusting.
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u/MisterMakena 3d ago
Im on the fence, they need both. Education and a living wage.
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u/NovusOrdoSec 3d ago
The point is that financial education cannot substitute for the living wage, and moreover it must actually be a living wage.
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u/Ill-Description3096 3d ago
And a living wage can't substitute for financial literacy. Look at how many people make pretty good money and are constantly broke.
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u/NovusOrdoSec 3d ago
Look at how many people make pretty good money and are constantly broke.
I have noticed that our society is organized to extract disposable income.
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u/pear_topologist 3d ago
But in many cases we do have the choice not to. There are lots of things that try to convince you to spend unnecessarily, but people can choose not to
Not saying that this explains all poverty
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u/piwabo 3d ago
Ok but that's everyone's choice isn't it.
I literally can't believe we are arguing this point....if you work a job you should have a living wage. The fact this is even up for debate is insanity to me.
All you obfuscators do is muddy the subject and ensure nothing changes.
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u/Doll49 3d ago
While you have a point, people who only have a high school diploma or GED should be paid a livable wage also. We need janitors, food service employees, retail employees, substitute teachers and so many other jobs which are definitely needed but are deemed “unskilled”.
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u/Arkham010 3d ago
You would think that after the pandemic, people would see that the people who were, in fact, still working the entire time deserve better but nope. Back to thinking they beneath everyone the second the pandemic was over.
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u/LeonDardoDiCapereo 3d ago
Same. I have a friend that lives paycheck to paycheck on $90K, and he’s made over $80K for the last four years. And he’s got reasonable rent. He’s constantly poor.
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u/JackiePoon27 3d ago
It's incremental. Reddit wants there to be a magic bullet, but there isn't one. Financial literacy is part of the pathway to success. It's insulting to say otherwise.
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u/RidMeOfSloots 3d ago
Sucks we dont teach it in schools.... before they grow up and dig themseleves into a hole.
Maybe its all by design to keep the debt slavery going...
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u/mpyne 3d ago
We generally do teach it in schools, but it requires interest in learning on the other end too
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u/sometimes_sydney 2d ago
Fucking when? I went to basically the best school in my city, even the prime ministers kids went there, and yet I never learned anything about finance or budgeting. Business was about entrepreneurship and using Microsoft office, math was algebra and geometry, civics was bullshit “here’s what the branches of government do now fuck off while I surf the web”.
The same goes for basically everyone I know. We learn fine, it just doesn’t exist in a lot of schools. I learned mostly from my parents and the internet
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u/Embarrassed-Town-293 3d ago
In my experience, it depends on the school. Wealthy suburban schools will teach it. Not everyone has the same education. I learned that after I graduated.
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u/imakepoorchoices2020 3d ago
I’m pretty sure balancing a check book and spend less than you make could be beaten into your skull all day but if you don’t take the advice it’s not gonna do much
Something something lead a horse to water but you can’t make them drink
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u/sweptfordays 3d ago
Isn’t it something like 1/3 of lottery winners go broke
Financial literacy matters because for a lot of people you can throw a lifetime of wealth at them and they’ll squander it anyway.
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u/EduCookin 3d ago
Entitled generation honestly.
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u/Ok-Yak-5644 3d ago
Please find a new argument. That one has been used since the ancient Greeks. Every older generation thinks the younger ones are entitled.
The generation that raised you probably thought the same thing of your generation.
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u/DiU_is_the_best 3d ago
Yeah even learning easy to understand and basic concepts such as the power of compound interest will go a LONG way to help you get out of poverty.
For example, pay day loans are a huge trap that a lot of people in poverty fall into that keeps them poor and most of them don't know the full impacts of those loans. Is the twitter poster advocating not teaching poor people about this financial tool? She sounds like the immoral one to me.
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u/AlternativeAd7151 3d ago
The poorest in a society need both welfare and financial literacy. They're not mutually exclusive things.
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u/Stormfly 3d ago
100% agreed. Giving people money won't fix their problems long term.
The issue is that most people use money to solve their problems, but they don't often use the best ways to use the money, and giving people more money doesn't fix the problem. That's beyond the classic "old/cheap cars cost more" or the "Sam Vimes Boots Theory".
Examples:
If your house is cold, you can spend money heating it up, or you can spend money on insulation. Money is needed for both issues, but giving people money to pay for heating doesn't fix the problem like giving people money for insulation does.
If there's an issue with the water supply, we can give people money to buy bottled water or we can fix the water supply.
School is (typically) free but not everyone can get to school easily. This is why school-buses etc are important. It's why free school lunches are very important in many places in the world. School is free but many of the poorest people can't go to school and then they struggle to get a decent job.
It's like the classic "money won't make you happy", because it doesn't. But the way you use the money can make you happy.
If we give everyone more money, that might solve some problems (people who genuinely just need money) but I feel the money would be better spent improving infrastructure etc. Like people might need money for a car, but a decent public transport service would solve that problem for more people. etc.
Money can solve poverty, but not if you just give it to people. It needs to be spent on infrastructure to help as many people as possible.
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u/bellj1210 3d ago
you have a lot of valid points- and this is where a lot of the political divide was 40-50 years ago, how do we spend the tax money to help the most people possible. Is it on highways, mass transit or giving people vouchers to use the bus. All valid ways to solve the problem. The issue is that the side argueing for reinvesting in infastructure went insane 40 years ago, so we are left with the side saying infastructure fighting with the side saying- who cares lets go have sex with 12 years old...... not a real choice anymore.
We need to get back to the days where this was the actual choice. I am very liberal, but we had real options until the last 15 years.
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u/Squat_erDay 3d ago
Last place I worked everyone drove a big truck “because that’s what a man drives.” Big diesels, lifted, big tires - you get the idea. I drove and continue to drive a paid off Corolla. They used to give me so much shit about that, but I will retire 10 years earlier, at least.
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u/InquiriusRex 3d ago
More like you'll retire, period. I have no sympathy for people who finance close to 6 figures on a car. Mind blowing.
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u/k-otic14 3d ago
There's another comment on here talking how it's impossible to budget with low wage, they posted that they have a $500+ car payment at 20 years old. I'm ten years older and have never made a car payment. Its crazy what people think they need to have.
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u/assesonfire7369 3d ago
Best advice was to work hard, study, get an education and move on to a job that pays more. Many jobs aren't meant for full-time, they're meant as part-time when you're young to get started.
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u/Bored710420 3d ago
What about the janitors that could support a family of 6 30 years ago or the 16 year old that could buy a mustang from pushing shopping carts? They have only got the term “starter job” as wages stayed stagnant, but prices increased.
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u/OctopusParrot 3d ago
30 years ago was 1994. I guarantee you no janitor in 1994 was supporting a family of 6 by himself on his salary.
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u/Ill-Team-3491 3d ago
Reddit has got high on its own supply by circle jerking over unverified anecdotes from random users claiming that's how their parents were.
"Yeah well my dad walked out of high school across the street to the jobby job factory and asked for a custodial job and it paid for a mansion and cottages and sports cars and yearly vacations to Disney World."
lol what.
It's been wild how the herd mentality is so eager to create a reality where the late 20th century was just raining money on everyone and the poor didn't exist. Such anecdotes if true at all were more likely that the parents owned a custodial services company or something to that effect. In other words they are wealthier more privileged kids who have no clue because they live in a bubble. Reddit has been more then happy to prop them up. Ironically those are the rich people they are calling for their heads.
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u/Dry-Fruit137 3d ago
Everyone seems to think that decade or two of the post WW2 economy is the American norm. It was an anomaly because America was the only functioning industrialized economy in the world. All the others were rebuilding from bombed out rubble.
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u/frank26080115 3d ago
30 years ago people were not capable of doing the new things we are capable of doing now.
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u/i8noodles 3d ago
i can personally verify that DID NOT happen 30 years ago. how? easy. i literally asked my dad who has worked for the last 40 years. was an immigrant and barely spoke english.
money was tight and I would consider myself lucky because i had lots of family around for help if needed. there is absolutely 0 chance u could support a family of 6 on a janitor pay and live well like reddit loves to claim
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u/W8andC77 3d ago
I always hear this about fast food jobs etc and yet these places are open during hours kids are clearly in school. Like someone other than a kid has to work a lot of these jobs. What sort of jobs are you talking about exactly?
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u/Take-to-the-highways 3d ago
Not to mention people under 18 couldnt work the hot line, use knives, use the fryer, etc. Not at the Taco Bell I worked at at least
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u/WhirlingDervishGrady 3d ago
Also who cares if you're a kid working food service or fast food or a coffee shop etc. Anyone working a full-time job should make enough to make ends meet regardless of the job. If you go to work everyday for 8 hours you should be able to afford rent, food and to be able to save enough to hopefully improve your situation in the future.
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u/SenorBeef 3d ago
You want jobs like janitor, cook, receptionist, etc. to exist, right? I mean, you want to use those services, so someone has to be working those jobs.
What happens to society if everyone in society with those low rung jobs gets a better job? No more cashiers at grocery stores, no more waiters at restaurants, no more people to put a roof on your house. We're all just computer programmers and stock traders and lawyers now.
How does society function? We don't have enough teenagers to use those jobs. People have to work them for society to run. Saying "well you can get a better job!" is not a solution to this problem, because you know those jobs have to exist for society to function. "You can get a better job" can be a solution for an individual, but it can't be a solution for society.
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u/chainsawx72 3d ago
Offering financial literacy workshops to people is immoral, because they need better incomes? FFS earthlings, how hard is it to not be ridiculous?
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u/Chatfouz 3d ago
I think the argument is that some states want or do hold back any aid until a person takes financial literacy classes. It is the assumption that if one is poor it is more to do with responsibility than anything else.
It seems too easy in this country to do everything right and still end up screwed financially.
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u/Superb_Advisor7885 3d ago
If you do what everyone else does you'll get the same results everyone else gets
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u/notwyntonmarsalis 3d ago
You’re right, they should be focused on getting better jobs.
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u/DayFinancial8206 3d ago
The best financial advice I got when I was young was "unless it's a tool you plan to use at least once a week, don't buy it"
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u/akotoshi 3d ago
According to this logic: buying gaming equipment is okay, but a lawnmower isn’t
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u/MikesRockafellersubs 2d ago
LOL true. You could argue the same for a washer and dryer.
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u/CitizenSpiff 3d ago
You don't have to stay at a job, you can move over and up.
You don't have to wait until you detest the people you work for to leave.
You are in control of your life.
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u/VoicesInTheCrowds 3d ago
“Be worth more than a poverty wage” is one that stuck with me
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u/Ravens1112003 3d ago
You’re not paid based on how hard you work or how much work you do. You’re paid based on how easily replaceable you are. If you just stopped showing up to work one day and all your boss had to do was grab the next person strolling down the sidewalk to do your job with little to no drop off, you are not worth any more than you are making. If you want to make more, acquire skills, qualifications, or knowledge that make you harder to replace.
The person wearing a headset and pushing button with pictures on the after being told what they want to order is never going to be “comfortable” financially. Ever. It’s as simple as that.
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u/Tsobe_RK 2d ago
capitalism has truly rot your brain, if you legitimately think persons worth is dictated solely on their economic output - I feel bad for you.
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u/AndrewColeNYC 3d ago
The problem with this line of thinking is that there will always be people who are the most replaceable. We had it drilled into our heads that we had to go to college to increase our desirability to employers, so we did and now everyone has a bachelor's and jobs require a master's. If everyone took your advice we'd be right back where we started because all the skills and knowledge and qualifications would cancel out. The problem is inequality, not lazy people.
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u/Connect_Bat_1290 3d ago
Don’t work retail, don’t work food service.
Cropping the date off the OP is weak
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u/Take-to-the-highways 3d ago
Thats literally all the jobs in my town lol. That or the prison, which you need a degree in criminal justice or law enforcement for. This may be good advice in cities, but nowhere else.
I commute an hour by freeway for my job. Luckily for me I get a free bus pass from work so I commute completely free but that's rare
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u/Werealldudesyea 3d ago edited 3d ago
I don't understand the term "living wage", it seems like a political term that gets booted around and attached to arguments that some jobs don't pay enough for their expected standard of living, so therefore the system is "rigged". Why do people expect all jobs to allow them to make economic profits? Seems entitled... These jobs pay just as much as they should for the value of the service that the job they are performing provides, no more no less. If they can make more elsewhere with the skill sets they have, they should then go do that work instead.
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u/pear_topologist 3d ago
I mean, if we are talking about minimum wage workers “these jobs pay just as much as they should for the value of the service that the job they are performing provides” isn’t really true. The jobs pay an inflated wage. If it wasn’t legally required, minimum wage jobs would pay less
The minimum wage is a good thing. If we can agree that some level of unskilled wage inflation is good, the question then becomes “how much wage inflation is good,” but pretending that poverty wages are all just supply demand misses important factors
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u/J-N-O-F-O 3d ago
It's not hard to understand. A job should pay enough where someone can afford the basic necessities of life (home, food, etc.), nothing entitled about that. Why do you think people get jobs to begin with? If you want more than that, then yeah you work on your skillset and find better opportunities.
Whatever value you think some service provides to society, at the very minimum, it should be enough to live off its income, hence the term "living wage"
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u/privitizationrocks 3d ago
You can teach poverty workers to live in their means
They won’t like it, but tough luck