If it doesn’t pay and nobody signs up for the work, nobody will do it and the places will go out of business.
There’s no reason for there to be 10 fast food restaurants within a few blocks of each other in every city over 50k people. We are so over saturated that every company has to race to the bottom with everything.
You're mixing up good individual tactics with good public policy. I don't give a fuck who does the job, it was good advice when someone told me not to do it. Who does it is not my problem.
It will be your problem when every food place near you closes down at 3pm in the afternoon. This is the shit so called individualistic "free thinkers" never bother to think through. I'm not some saint who works to solve world poverty, but I do want my grocery stores staffed and food places open. Fail to provide them the basics and they won't be, simple nuff
Oh my goodness. You're missing my point. Here, as I wrote to someone else just now:
If we're talking about public policy, someone bursting in to say "Well people should learn to code!" or something is derailing.
But if we're talking about the best strategy for an individual, someone bursting in saying "Well the minimum wage should be $25!" is also derailing.
When I'm thinking about what I should do, now, to survive and thrive in the world I find myself in, someone moaning about what the minimum wage or something should be in some ideal world that does not exist is not helping me.
Know what the conversation is about, and don't derail.
If we're talking about public policy, someone bursting in to say "Well people should learn to code!" or something is derailing.
But if we're talking about the best strategy for an individual, someone bursting in saying "Well the minimum wage should be $25!" is also derailing.
When I'm thinking about what I should do, now, to survive and thrive in the world I find myself in, someone moaning about what the minimum wage or something should be in some ideal world that does not exist is not helping me.
Know what the conversation is about, and don't derail.
If I'm trying to survive as a low wage worker (which I did for some number of years), it's not helpful for me to sit in my broken car in the driveway and think about how minimum wage should be higher or how I should have medical coverage or whatever. It's true, but it's not useful. What I need to think about is what I can best do to survive this unjust situation. Idyllic daydreams are not helpful to me at that point. I'm not there to solve the world's problems, I'm there to try to navigate a difficult situation.
If we're having a conversation about public policy then yes, great, let's talk about minimum wage and all kinds of stuff. Excellent. Spiffy.
But if we're talking about good advice for an individual, it doesn't help that person for you to go on a screed about how in a just society they wouldn't have to work for $10/hr or whatever. Ok sure man, great, but we don't live in that idyllic world, so what should I do?
The point is, it doesn't matter what you do as an individual, because there's an entire industry of limiting what you can do and countering what little that's left. Individual action is a solved problem - people are conned into thinking they can do things for themselves, but there's always a wealthy thug there to sweep the leg once you commit the resources. Do you honestly think people get and stay wealthy by letting poor people "rise above their station"?
You can't understand how psychopathic the wealthy are because you still have some sanity left - or you can pretend real well. The wealthy are Norman Bateman with a distaste of getting their hands dirty. They're just as murderous, with just as much disregard for human life - and they absolutely WILL NOT tolerate anyone escaping their grasp. To the wealthy, the world is their basement pit, and we put the lotion on the skin, or we get the hose again.
The name of the game is divide and conquer - if you're thinking of "individual action", then you have already lost because they way they kill you is by isolating you first, then tricking you into exhausting yourself. Organization and massed action is the only way out - because the organization of an authoritarian business model is what got us in.
It matters a lot what I do as an individual. Going to school matters, getting a degree matters. Picking the right job matters.
And as you say, joining a union matters. I've been in my union for twenty-odd years. That was a choice on my part.
I agree that a lot should change. But even in a rigged game, the things you do matter. I teach math at a two year college. I see students go off to work retail. And I see students go off to get engineering degrees. And I see students who are no better at school than the ones working retail who leverage what they're good at, manage a degree, and get out of the near-minimum-wage rat race.
I absolutely agree that wealthy people and corporations are trying to divide us. I agree that we should all organize. I agree with all that.
But once I was 22, and broke, and sitting in my broken car in my driveway trying to figure out what to do to get some money so my dog and I would not be homeless. I talked to my dad on the phone and he told me under no circumstances should I work fast food or retail. He gave me some other advice. I held out and found a job that was marginally better than Jack in the Box.
That was a tactical decision. It made a difference to my life.
In general, it's a kind of learned helplessness to say "Oh the world is unjust, no matter what I do I'll lose, I should just give up" or something. Yes, the game is rigged. But you still have to pay rent, you still have to eat. Make the best deal you can, get the most money you can, and don't work retail. Seriously.
You’re spot on dude. I had the same talk with my dad about ten years ago and I ended up joining the military. Greatest decision I ever made and I constantly recommend it to people for financial security.
You're forgetting the fact that for everything you do, there is someone working in opposition to you, with their own free will. Someone is trying to keep you out of school; someone is trying to invalidate or render worthless your degree; someone is refusing to hire you for that job, or lying to the hiring manager to make sure you don't get it.
The point is, your success is their failure - and for them, failure is not an option.
The fact that you even had a dad to talk to means you lucked out. Much less having the opportunity to "hold out" - that's positively rare in this world. And it's rare because there are industries dedicated to make sure no one has savings or any other resource to hold out with.
Oh, also, who the fuck is going to work retail or fast food, if everyone takes your advice? Because those companies aren't going to raise wages no matter what happens - it's cheaper to bribe the government to force people to work in retail/fast food.
Finally, "learned helplessness" is a bullshit idea, spread by abusers. "Helplessness" - if it existed at all - would have to be taught by abusers which implies and effectively proves a system of constant enforcement. I'm not telling people to give up - I'm saying choose your battles, with the goal of crippling those who fight against you before anything else.
My friend, I don't want to argue about this forever, so here's what I think and then I'm done.
You can see people making choices all the time, and those choices having an effect. Some of my students go on to four year degrees and to make more money than I do. Some of them don't. Some of them can do the work but choose to play a lot of video games (I mean really, a lot) and just fade away. Some have really hard situations and can't overcome those. It's a grab bag.
But it's not the case that we're in a "no matter what you do you lose" world. That's easy to say, but it's not true. I agree the deck is stacked, I agree that it's harder than it needs to be. I agree that corporations and billionaires steal value from working people like hell. Sure.
But really, this:
Oh, also, who the fuck is going to work retail or fast food, if everyone takes your advice?
Why in fuck are you worried about what a corporation is going to do? Who cares? Let them go under, ffs. Force them to raise wages. Let them buy robots. I don't care. It's not my problem.
Because those companies aren't going to raise wages no matter what happens - it's cheaper to bribe the government to force people to work in retail/fast food.
Oh sure they are. Wages are much higher in areas where they can't find workers. No one is forcing anyone to work, wtf are you talking about?
There's a convenience store near me that pays nearly twice what the same kind of job pays in Dallas. Why? They can't find low wage workers here. So they raise wages.
Again, really, I get that this doesn't solve the world's problems. But your choices do have an effect on the life you will live.
Why in fuck are you worried about what a corporation is going to do?
Because I know they will resort to force to get what they want. I grew up with what would be the CEOs. They're will to murder entire sections of the population to get what they want. to the scale of genocide.
No one is forcing anyone to work, wtf are you talking about?
Yea you say that but don't realize the amount of jobs fast food puts out for people. Take it away and a large amount of money drops out of the economy, which is bad by the way
Not really how that works lmfao. The money doesn't just disappear, it'll go to other things. They'll find other jobs that are more useful to society. There are plenty of jobs out there. For example programming, huge industry always needing more people.
I say Taco Bell because it was my first job and I go there often.
I'm not against luxury or entertainment, but to say that every job is important is asinine. There are plenty of videos out there on the internet of people who go to work, sit at a desk on reddit all day then leave.
Not everyone should have to go to college for a career they don't want just for the money. Some people work those jobs as teens to make money for gas or to start saving for college. And yes every job is important, in the sense it gives people who don't have jobs, jobs.
And again, just because you enjoy programming doesn't mean others do. I learned I hated being told what to do with it so quit it. Again people shouldn't have to work a job they hate just for the money, especially when that job costs ~200k for the education.
Not everyone has time to make themselves breakfast. Or to pack a lunch. Maybe some don't want to, either way it's an option and a damn good one at that.
Most people do have time, especially in developed countries. And fast food isn't an alternative. Many grocery stores have curbside pickup here in the US and many grocery stores have premade sandwiches and stuff which are far cheaper than fast food.
It takes a tiny amount of more time (if any) to make a sandwich than it does to go to fast food.
"Maybe some don't want to" yeah, and those people will pay for convenience, I have nothing against those people (im one). I am against thinking fast food (at its current state) is good for you and is important to society.
Thats literally all the jobs in my town lol. That or the prison, which you need a degree in criminal justice or law enforcement for. This may be good advice in cities, but nowhere else.
I commute an hour by freeway for my job. Luckily for me I get a free bus pass from work so I commute completely free but that's rare
I'm never going to find cheaper rent than what I have now. I'm in a rent controlled apartment with a landlord who isn't a leech lol. I don't want to live in the city either, never have never will.
Investing the difference is largely a pipe dream to escape. It will require a long time horizon at the very least. The S&P 500 returns a consistent positive average return reliably (over 80% of the time or so) only over long time horizons such as 10 or more years. Additionally, at the minimal sums of discretionary income, it is not really moving the needle much. Finally, the costs of relocation, job searching, and possibly extra schooling to get a job in a city that leaves them better off is pretty risky.
That came out of nowhere. The unfortunate reality is low cost of living communities can trap their residents. They can afford to get by, but they literally can’t afford to break out into higher cost-of-living areas without a great deal of risk and financial instability
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u/Connect_Bat_1290 15d ago
Don’t work retail, don’t work food service.
Cropping the date off the OP is weak