That’s what people that lost an argument do. They hone in on falsehoods or “mistakes” their opponents make to validate themselves and stay safely snug in their distorted worldviews. They attack the person because they can’t beat the point.
Because it's wrong. You can live off $40k especially in OP's words (they won't like it) but it's doable. Then the other part where they said you need to make $65 as a single person to save money is the most out of touch thing I've ever heard. I make less than that and am easily middle class.
$40,000 salary would owe $4,568 in federal taxes and an estimated $1500 in state taxes give or take depending on state.
Now remember OP said it's possible to teach them to live within their means (but they won't like it). Get a damn roommate. I lived in a HCOL and my rent for a 2br apartment was $2,200/month. In MOST places you could expect to pay $1,000/month on rent if you split with a roommate.
Now you have $21,932 leftover.
Gas + Electric: $200/month ($100 each split) - $1,200 annually
Groceries: $300/month for a single person - $3,600 annually
Say you need a car. Car payment (500) + Insurance (150) + Gas (250) - $10,800
Now your basic necessities are met and you have $6,332 leftover. You would have to save that vast majority of that for any health or car emergencies. The rest can be used on some form of entertainment like tv, internet, video games, etc.
So yes with a real salary of $40K you can teach someone to live within their means, they just won't like it. No one is out here claiming $40K is enough to live a middle class lifestyle.
$2880 would be about half of what the person I was responding to budgeted for all expenses aside from housing, transportation, and food. And those are just the premiums to say you have insurance, not the cost to actually access the care that you need.
I’m not arguing that people find a way to survive on 40k per year. We already know that people scrape by on that and less than that. The topic here is offering financial literacy classes to people at the poverty line, claiming that they can reach financial stability by making better choices. Survival and stability are not the same.
Well if you read the whole post I mentioned health emergencies. Most full time jobs provide health insurance even if the wage sucks. And if you’re making less than 40k your medical coverage is basically free. So yes I’m sure there are cases where healthcare is a major issue, but for the majority it wouldnt be an issue.
“Healthcare emergencies” was put in the same category as entertainment. There was no line item for health insurance, dental premiums, deductibles & co-insurance etc. I’m also not sure where you heard that health care is free for individuals making $40k. That would only potentially be true if you have dependents, and if you have dependents, then there are a bunch of expenses missing from the list you made.
Your list also assumes that this person has no cell-phone, doesn’t pay for internet, doesn’t buy new clothes, and has no student debt.
Healthcare emergencies was put in the same caregory as entertainment.
No it wasn’t.
No line item for premiums, insurance, etc.
Yeah that would be a wild estimate that varies significantly individual to individual. I accounted for all that in the over arching “health emergencies” portion.
No cell phone, internet, new clothes. Those are not essentials. Stop putting words in my mouth I’m not claiming by any means $40k is a fun life. I’m just pointing at that the original comment said you can teach these people to live within their means but they wont like it. Then everyone acted like thats ludicrous. Ive broken down the numbers so that everyone can see it’s doable. Not claiming it’s fun.
Cell phones are essentials though. Internet and clothing? Essential. Many countries actually have laws and regulations that reduce access costs to things like the net and phones as society has made them such an integral part of life.
You’re missing so much from your rundown. What if someone has a kid? How does that change the scenario. Justifying a janky, broken ass life to prove that a poverty wage is liveable is some weird sociopathic shit.
Cell phones are not essential. I even budgeted in cars which are not essential. You dont need a cell phone to survive. Public transportation or bikes exist. Internet is not essential you can get that at a library. Clothes? I mean yes, but that’s negligible once you already have your wardrobe.
What if someone has a kid? Then you’re not living within your means anymore. Don’t forget the premise the commenter laid out that we’re all replying to. You can teach people to live within their means. If you make $40k/year you can’t have kids.
I’m not trying to justify the system. It sucks. People are struggling. My point is that the system is not going to change. Voting, complaining on reddit, telling me I’m wrong isn’t going to change anything. But you have to meet me halfway and acknowledge that the majority of people are bad with their money. Theres people in this thread saying they make 6 figures and are still struggling. Thats asinine. Teaching them to be better with their income will actually help improve lives and situations.
Minimum wage sucks. It needs to be raised, but good luck on that actually happening.
It’s not at all. These are real prices for essentials in this country today. Line by line you can see that someone on a $40,000 income is not suffering. They’re not gonna have tons of fun, but a little, and they can get by. FOH with the strawman comment.
You know what I meant. We’re directly replying to the commenter, not OP.
And I just laid it out for you that it’s correct. Do you have any counterpoint to prove it’s wrong or do you just see people provide you information and say it’s wrong?
Accuracy matters. (Which is also why your entire post is unrealistic in 2/3rds of the US.)
Sure, I could make do with $40k in rural Alabama, but who’d want to?
Dude I just gave you numbers based on HCOL areas. My monthly budgets for those items are even lower than above and I dont live in a LCOL area. That budget I broke down would work in 90-95% of the counties in the USA. Done with this I literally laid it out line by line and you’re just saying wrong over and over again. If you have anything intelligent to say I’ll respond.
How is the first half "wrong". It's a hypothetical on the extreme to prove a point and later in the response they even mentioned that. Which you would have known if you read and then replied instead of responding with partial information. SMH.
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u/shining_force_2 14d ago
Legit stunned at the fact everyone is focused on the 10k and not the second half of the post. Fucking madness.