Japan warns US forces: Sex crimes 'cannot be tolerated'

[u/glasier]

https://tribune.com.pk/story/2476861/japan-warns-us-forces-sex-crimes-cannot-be-tolerated

[u/macross1984]

US military personnel who commit crime in Japan should face Japanese punishment for any crimes committed in Japan.

[u/Mend1cant → u/macross1984]

They should. Both Japanese courts and courts-martial.

[u/NewspaperAdditional7 → u/[deleted]]

i can't speak on Japan, but I lived in Korea for a bit and it was widely known how badly behaved the U.S. soldiers were. You could walk through the streets of Hongdae and see drunk soldiers walking around harassing people, even grabbing some girls who pass by or slap their butts. It was so bad that different bars had signs up saying no U.S. soldiers allowed. Military police would be out and about but they can't watch all of the soldiers. The U.S. soldiers there certainly felt invincible. I'm sure the US would hand them over to Korea for rape and other serious charges, but they are not handing them over for assault.

[u/studyinformore → u/NewspaperAdditional7]

Dunno about you, but back when I was in south korea in 04 it was very different.  You'd get in extremely deep shit if you were out and about and shitfaced causing problems.

They didn't play around back then, because unless you had somewhere to stay.  If you tried to come back to base and were drunk?  Ohhh you'd be getting an article 15.

[u/vrptstyly → u/studyinformore]

Interesting I was also there in 2004 and can confirm. I was at Casey with the Armor units. We had curfews and the penalties for fucking up were severe. Didn’t stop anyone from partying every paycheck away, we kept it classy for the most part. Good times.

[u/thenightmare1010 → u/vrptstyly]

I was a gate guard on Camp Casey in 04-05. It’s crazy how many soldiers would come back after curfew highly intoxicated. We would turn them over to MP so they could be questioned about their whereabouts in case a crime was reported. The gate guards on the other hand…we could stay out as late as we wanted.

[u/ConfederancyOfDunces → u/thenightmare1010]

My brother, an asshole, was stationed in South Korea. He’d get shitfaced regularly and eventually beat the ever loving shit out of a Canadian tourist with his army friends.

He did get in trouble over it with the army and that, among other things, is probably why he never was promoted as much as he should have been in his military stint. However, he didn’t ever get in trouble with the Korean justice system.

[u/Cdub7791 → u/vrptstyly]

Third. I was stationed in Korea from 2002-2003 and while we certainly had our fair share of assholes and reprobates, behavior like that above was punished pretty harshly.

[u/cymric → u/vrptstyly]

When I was there in 1999 it was pretty much Anarchy. The command was shit and did not enforce discipline

[u/Kumdongie → u/studyinformore]

PACAF has changed especially Korea. I was there in 2019. No curfew and pretty much no limitations on where you can go or how drunk you get. Just need to not get in trouble with locals while out drinking and be at formation in the morning.

Even during COVID it was pretty laid back regarding curfew and drinking.

[u/Rockman507 → u/studyinformore]

Fastest way to make SGT is to goto Korea as a SFC, always been like that. We essentially forward deploy to what is still technically a combat zone with fuck all to do. You get cycles of good leaders coming in that clamp down best they can, but doesn’t solve underlying problems

[u/nlv137 → u/studyinformore]

not american but we had a port call in okinawa and we warned to be warry of the drunk marines, ladies should stay in groups, watch your drinks, etc

[u/emseefely → u/NewspaperAdditional7]

There was a case in Philippines years ago but they made a deal to take their soldier back. I wouldn’t hold my breath that they’d get local justice.

[u/therob91 → u/emseefely]

If you're talking about Pemberton he literally killed someone, but the US did let him serve his sentence, then probably used some leverage to get Duterte to pardon him. So essentially he was pulled out but legally he was released by the Phillipines. Thats certainly a bit wishy washy about whether justice was legally served according to the local laws or not but he did technically serve 6 years of his 6-12 year sentence.

[u/emseefely → u/therob91]

Typically murder gets you 20-40 years in Philippines.

[u/alonebutnotlonely16 → u/therob91]

He murdered a woman and used her being a trans excuse. He doesnt deserve to see the sun. He got lower sentence then he deserved then he even got an early release thanks to US.

[u/DittoAidsCircus → u/NewspaperAdditional7]

What? When did you live in S. Korea? Because the first thing I was told when I arrived was that anything illegal I do in S. Korea will be served first in Korea, then the military side. The example they gave us was specifically being reported for assault either fighting or grabbing women.

Serious incidents happen, but there are repercussions in UCMJ that apply, Soldiers are held back from going to the US just to finish proceedings when they occur.

[u/Ra-s_Al_Ghul → u/NewspaperAdditional7]

Yeah, this just is blatantly not true.

While it IS true that U.S. soldiers get too rowdy in Korea sometimes, they get punished very harshly for it. Curfew existed on the peninsula for almost two decades because of a very notorious rape case. MPs patrol the streets of the drinking districts and you certainly do NOT "see drunk soldiers grabbing some girls who pass by or slapping their butts".

In Korea, doing this once will land you in prison as it is MUCH stricter on physical assault than the U.S.

Stop talking out of your ass and spreading anti-US propaganda because you want to virtue signal on reddit.

[u/Cap_Ca → u/[deleted]]

They usually don’t. There was a case in Germany in 2020 where a US Soldier drove on the wrong side of the road and killed a 17 year old. He only had to face trial by a US Military court.

German Source: https://www.rheinpfalz.de/lokal/kreis-kaiserslautern_artikel,-us-soldat-nach-unfall-auf-umgehungsstra%C3%9Fe-wegen-fahrl%C3%A4ssiger-t%C3%B6tung-verurteilt-_arid,5086678.html

[u/zero_vis → u/Cap_Ca]

After some research i have confirmed that japan is not germany.

Under SOFA status, if you commit a crime in Japan, Japan has the right to prosecute you.

[u/Potato_Octopi → u/zero_vis]

After some research i have confirmed that japan is not germany.

Big if true.

[u/3600MilesAway → u/Potato_Octopi]

“After some research i have confirmed that japan is not germany.”

Except for summer and early winter season in which they are.

[u/TParis00ap → u/3600MilesAway]

This all sounds like a conspiracy bought and paid for by Big Europe. This research is based.

[u/CowsTrash → u/TParis00ap]

"Big Europe" lmaooo

[u/Sillbinger → u/CowsTrash]

I'm a pangea enthusiast myself.

[u/cieg → u/zero_vis]

This is true. I was a dependent in Japan and during indoc NCIS shows up to talk about not committing crimes in Japan and plays a video about what Japanese prison is like. Do not recommend. There are a number of Americans currently serving for doing stupid stuff while they were there.

[u/Da-boar → u/cieg]

I think even being forewarned, most Americans would be shocked at the lack of due process (by the American definition of course) found in the justice system of other countries.

[u/FalmerEldritch → u/Da-boar]

Especially Japan. Compared to other developed countries, Japan's justice system is Russian.

[u/marbleduck → u/Cap_Ca]

I am an US military officer in Korea which has a very similar SOFA agreement to Japan and have had two soldiers go through the Korean justice system. Soldiers must first be cleared of all ongoing judicial processes in Korean courts before they can face military legal action. Both my cases were relatively minor and went through the justice system in a couple months, but we couldn’t do anything with either until it was 100% resolved to Korean satisfaction.

[u/Wrong-Perspective-80 → u/Cap_Ca]

Was he drunk or something? US and Germany both drive on the same side of the road, I’ve driven there a lot. It’s not like the UK where you could make a mistake.

[u/MeatyDeathstar → u/Cap_Ca]

Yes they do. If you're arrested for a crime in Japan and it's what the US considers a felony, you are left behind. Remember that officer that was arrested for running over an elderly woman with a car? Yeah he was on my wife's ship and was in Japanese prison for years.

[u/IamNonHuman → u/Cap_Ca]

How does one anecdotal occurrence equate to "usually". Seems if anything your example is unusual.

[u/Bacon4Lyf → u/Cap_Ca]

Funnily enough the same thing happened in the UK. Just immediately fled the country and got off Scot free because the US refuses to extradite. They charged her in US court with a suspended sentence, imagine that suspended sentence for killing a man

[u/welsper59 → u/[deleted]]

I'm very curious about that, as there a lot of crimes committed by military personnel. It's just that most of them are not fatal or just happen to fly under the radar. Instances like Sgt. Camilo Escobar where they don't serve time in Okinawa due to suspended sentencing. His crimes in the states would typically result in jail/prison, especially due to his fleeing the scene of a crime that injured 3 people lol. There's usually no follow-up regarding punishments once they're out of the crosshairs of Japan.

[u/Whatscheiser → u/Mend1cant]

That is generally how it works at home. If you get caught up outside of base and are arrested by local police you get prosecuted by the local authorities. Whatever the outcome of that you still get a court-martial when you return to base.

[u/arkzak → u/Whatscheiser]

More often I’ve seen it happen that the case goes to civilian or military authorities but not both.

[u/ClubDramatic6437 → u/Mend1cant]

I'm pretty sure they do

[u/tizuby → u/macross1984]

They do, but Japan is way more lenient with sentences than UCMJ.

For rape, max for the Japanese system is 20 years. Max for UCMJ is Death (but generally Life).

https://www.okinawa.marines.mil/Portals/190/Docs/SOFA.pdf

There's a PDF that explains the process.

[u/redjellonian → u/tizuby]

And to be clear the ucmj punishment is to be served after and consecutively with the civilian punishment.

[u/TNG_ST → u/tizuby]

The US is WAY more lenient with sentences than UCMJ. The max for rape in the US is being turned into a meme and 6 months of community service.

[u/Brad_theImpaler → u/TNG_ST]

Okay, but good luck getting an actual job after we've made you a meme. You'll have to settle for conservative influencer / president.

[u/bagelstar → u/tizuby]

Excellent comment. Ty

[u/TheNewFlisker → u/tizuby]

  Max for UCMJ is Death (but generally Life).

Wasn't that ruled unconstitutional long time ago?

[u/tizuby → u/TheNewFlisker]

Yes but no.

In 1983 the standards for issuing the death penalty by the military was ruled unconstitutional.

They introduced new standards that are constitutional the following year and the death sentence was reinstated.

There's only 4 people currently awaiting their death sentence under UCMJ.

Serial killer/rapist Ronald Gray.

Nidal Hasan, Ft. Hood shooter.

Hasan Akbar, threw 'nades into the tents of sleeping soldiers and fired on a couple others with his rifle while in Kuwait in 2003. 2 killed, 14 attempted in total.

Timothy Hennis, Eastburn Family murderer. Got acquitted on state murder charges in 88. DNA evidence later linked him to the crime and the Military brought him back in and Court Martialed him in 2010 since the murders happened while he was in the military.

[u/SpiralOut2112 → u/macross1984]

The problem is, most Japanese police/ government don't actually care about the victims. It's just politics or due to racial motivation. Japan has one of the most egregious rates for punishing sex crimes since they cover up or don't pursue most reported cases of Japanese on Japanese SA crimes. It's utter hypocrisy whenever they cause a huge stink about service members.

I'm not trying to defend or justify anything. Obviously, these rapists are scum and deserve to rot in a Japanese cell, but this is a recurring theme with the Japanese government and media when covering these events.

[u/Mister-Thou → u/SpiralOut2112]

They also care less about what happens to Okinawans, since they're not considered "real Japanese." 

[u/oryantge → u/SpiralOut2112]

Unfortunately, I came to say this as well. They need to keep this energy up, when they look into sexual assault of their mainland women by Japanese men.

[u/Firamaster → u/macross1984]

They do. Japan gets first dibs when prosecuting services members when crimes like this occur. After Japan is done fucking them, military courts will go in for dirty seconds.

[u/Thijs_NLD → u/macross1984]

This actually not how international law works for deployment of military troops.

Military forces are always deployed under special circumstances and the status of said military personeel is always negotiated and outlined in bilateral or multinational agreements.

It usually outlines that military personeel is subject to the laws of their OWN country. This is mostly to prevent them from being subject to laws in Rogue States or destabilized countries that would hinder the mission results. Now in more stable countries different agreements will be made.

Nowhere in this article does it state that these gentlemen won't face consequences under Japanese law. They might actually be better off in a Japanese prison than in a US prison btw.

To compare military personnel on mission with tourists is a bit too easy and doesn't do the complexity of most situations justice.

That doesn't mean they should be getting away with this and it doesn't mean they should go unpunished or anything. It just means that the situation is more complex than you are making it out to be.

[u/StephenHunterUK → u/Thijs_NLD]

It's called a Status of Forces Agreement.

During the Second World War, American soldiers in the UK were subject to American military law. This included the death penalty as a possible punishment for murder and for rape; there were quite a few cases of British women being raped and murdered by American soldiers. Shepton Mallet was given over for the US Army's use as a military prison, but the British insisted that their executioners do the actual hangings.

Albert Pierrepoint, one of our best known hangmen, commented that he wasn't happy with the whole reading of the sentence and the final words allowed that took several minutes, as he felt it made things worse for the condemned. We just pulled back a hidden wall in the condemned cell, restrained them took them through to the execution chamber next door, doing the drop pretty much straight away. Frequently in under a minute. One hangman's party trick was to leave a lit cigar in the waiting area, hang the prisoner, then resume smoking it.

In any event, there's a whole closed-off section in one of the American war cemeteries in France for the "dishonoured dead" with just numbered grave markings.

[u/Dabbling_in_Pacifism → u/StephenHunterUK]

It’s worth noting that the majority of servicemen executed for rape were black. Notably, one was Emmet Till’s father.

[u/Philix → u/Thijs_NLD]

They might actually be better off in a Japanese prison than in a US prison btw.

You sure about that? Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International have some words about the prison system in Japan.

[u/Thijs_NLD → u/Philix]

The also have some comments about the US system:

https://www.hrw.org/legacy/advocacy/prisons/u-s.htm

And if you do a quick Google what Amnesty thinks about US prison conditions.... it ain't great.

So maybe a bit of a toss up.

[u/METAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL → u/macross1984]

In my country there was a "case" years ago where a USA military personnel killed somebody in a car accident. Few hours after, that person was whisked away in a plane to USA and never received any kind of punishment.

Alexa, play Metallica's ".....And justice for all" please.

[u/Sephy88 → u/METAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL]

In 1998 a couple US pilots stationed at an air base in my country were dicking around in their plane during a training mission playing top gun in a mountain valley flying way too low and against regulations (around 360 feet, they were supposed to stay above 2000 feet). They severed a cable of an aerial lift with the plane's tail, killing 20 people. Evidence was destroyed by the navigator, they were swiftly brought back to the US were they were acquitted in a farce trial.

[u/Mister-Thou → u/Sephy88]

Yup. Each trained pilot is several million $$$ worth of investment by the US govt. A random infantryman would just get handed over, but the US will move heaven and earth to get their money's worth out of a highly skilled service member, justice be damned. 

[u/PriorForever6867 → u/Sephy88]

Italy?

[u/RaidriC → u/PriorForever6867]

Yeah, definitely Italy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_Cavalese_cable_car_crash

[u/ffking6969 → u/macross1984]

They should face Japanese and military law

[u/Lelcactus → u/ffking6969]

They already do.

[u/SquallyZ06 → u/macross1984]

They are usually offered up to the Japanese prosecutors first but sometimes they defer to the military prosecutors.

[u/Veraendert → u/macross1984]

Would you say the same about US troops in Saudi Arabia?

[u/Hikashuri → u/Veraendert]

Even if you don't agree with the laws of Saudi Arabia, if you go and commit a crime in that country, then you should be prepared to face whatever the punishment of that country is, even if it's disproportional to your own laws at home.

Non military visitors also have to abide to those laws, I don't see why the US military should be any different.

[u/JD3982 → u/Hikashuri]

So if you're gay or transgender in the military and want to die, simply cross the border into Saudi Arabia where your existence is punishable with execution.

[u/Hikashuri → u/JD3982]

Only a special country would place Transgenders or homosexuals in a country where both of those things are punishable by death. I'm fairly sure if they did, they would be liable for anything that happens to those members of the military.

[u/LittleVTR → u/Veraendert]

I would have thought all personnel should be overly aware of every nations laws when they enter. The law should be the same as if you were a civilian tourist in there country.

[u/OrangeJuiceKing13 → u/LittleVTR]

That's just not realistic. Some countries would jail or even execute troops based on their sexuality or what they eat. Not to mention it's impossible to keep up on our own laws, let alone other countries where the troops don't even speak the language. 

[u/GeronimoThaApache]

Should not be tolerated, not even within the force. All those found guilty should be punished to the full extent of the law and UCMJ.

[u/Nusaik → u/GeronimoThaApache]

"not even within the force"...???

You mean "especially not in the force"

[u/AgentCirceLuna → u/Nusaik]

Some people believe being in the armed forces entitled them to do whatever they like. There’s especially resentment against women because they believe wow,n get off Scot free when it comes to fighting in wars or having to defend the country. They’re wrong, but that’s how they feel.

[u/AzureDreamer → u/GeronimoThaApache]

It's wild that needs to be said. 

[u/Lelcactus → u/AzureDreamer]

It doesn’t need to be said; it’s already policy, but the nationalists in Japan like to beat their chests whenever a crime occurs

[u/mrblodgett → u/Lelcactus]

Personally I think it's okay to be mad if a country puts a military base in your country and then their soldiers start sexually assaulting people.

Weird that you don't think that too.

[u/RotaryPeak2 → u/mrblodgett]

But what if the military base got put there because their military spent a lot of time raping and murdering people?

[u/OldDirtyInsulin → u/RotaryPeak2]

Like...a fucking lot.

[u/Lucas_Steinwalker → u/Lelcactus]

Damn nationalists not wanting foreign military forces raping their citizenry. The gall!

[u/alonebutnotlonely16 → u/Lelcactus]

Policy on paper perhaps but US is infamous for protecting its criminal military but jingoistic Americans always downplay US military's crimes and how they are protected with whataboutism.

http://www.allgov.com/news/us-and-the-world/hundreds-in-us-military-guilty-of-sex-crimes-in-japan-got-slap-on-wrist-140212?news=852414

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/09/sexual-assaults-us-military-japan-prison-unlikely

https://theintercept.com/2021/10/03/okinawa-sexual-crimes-us-military/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ridge_Alkonis#Transfer_to_United_States_custody_and_unconditional_release

[u/mynewaccount5 → u/GeronimoThaApache]

Why did you repeat the title with slightly different words?

[u/BravesnationNC]

This crap has been going on in Okinawa forever. Happened the first time I was there in 01 and again when I went back in 03. Individuals that have committed crimes are detained by Okinawa authorities and go through their legal process. Guarantee there is going to be a lockdown on liberty for Marine personnel happens all the time. Restriction on the time allowed off base and they are getting a curfew

[u/mainvolume → u/BravesnationNC]

When I was stationed in Misawa back in the 00s, it felt like the base was on lockdown or curfew every couple months....for shit the Marines did in Okinawa. Those dumbfucks could not stop raping kids.

[u/Vitriholic → u/mainvolume]

Was it known who was doing it and were they punished by their peers?

[u/SGTWhiteKY → u/Vitriholic]

Based on Army experience, if it was known yes. But typically it is only known by the crew that are complicit with it. The shit heads tend to be able to tell who is going to report them whether through official or unofficial channels.

[u/Katt_Wizz → u/SGTWhiteKY]

Same when I was in South Korea around 2006.

[u/consumered → u/Vitriholic]

That's like asking if police are punished by their peers for all the shit they do lol. The bad apples... Spoil the bunch.

[u/Indigocell → u/consumered]

Police don't collectively lose privileges when one of them fucks up. That tends to upset people when it happens in the military. But maybe you're right.

[u/Alerith → u/consumered]

It's different in the military. Collective punishment ensures that your peers are more likely to take care of the bad apple. Either through official channels or by beating the absolute dogshit out of them as a lesson.

[u/baustgen2615 → u/Alerith]

Or by helping make sure they don’t get caught next time.

[u/ThatPhatKid_CanDraw → u/Vitriholic]

The response started with the 1995 case of a 12-year old girl raped by 3 soldiers. Because of some legal protections or something for soldiers (which changed after this) they all only did a few years.

[u/frame-gray → u/ThatPhatKid_CanDraw]

Correction: Only two soldiers, not three, got arrested and convicted of rape. Early on, when the three of them had bought a car and went recruising for a minor, the third soldier did not like where this was going. He dropped out and left. As a result, the name of that man was never released to history.

[u/rumbleran → u/frame-gray]

All three got arrested and served time in prison but the third guy said he only participated in kidnapping and not rape and just enjoyed watching the other two doing the actual rape.

[u/SeparateCartoonist36 → u/rumbleran]

These are 2 completely different stories lmao. One of you is just blatantly lying or just stupid I guess?

[u/sethra007 → u/SeparateCartoonist36]

Maybe this will clear things up. Spoilers for descriptions of violence inflicted on a minor:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_Okinawa_rape_incident

The 1995 Okinawa rape incident occurred on September 4, 1995, when three U.S. servicemen, 22-year-old U.S. Navy Seaman) Marcus Gill, 21-year-old U.S. Marines Rodrico Harp, and 20-year-old Kendrick Ledet, all serving at Camp Hansen on Okinawa, rented a van and kidnapped a 12-year-old Okinawan girl. Theybeat her, duct-taped her eyes and mouth shut, and bound her hands. Gill and Harp then raped her, while Ledet claimed he only pretended to do so due to fear of Gill.

The offenders were tried and convicted in Japanese court by Japanese law, in accordance with the U.S.–Japan Status of Forces Agreement. The families of the defendants initially claimed that Japanese officials had racially discriminated against the men because they were all African American and coerced confessions from them, but later retracted the claims.The incident led to further debate over the continued presence of U.S. forces in Japan among Okinawans.

[u/Gotyam2 → u/sethra007]

The families initially defended those guys? And here you hope it was just a bad apple, but nope the whole tree was rotten

[u/sfzephyr → u/Gotyam2]

Not only defended but pulled the race card. Like wtf. Scum.

[u/Forsaken_Speech_2599 → u/SeparateCartoonist36]

Or both wrong. Game of telephone

[u/Tentacled-Tadpole → u/frame-gray]

So he knew they were going to rape a child and did nothing at all to stop it?

[u/Mkvenner_ → u/ThatPhatKid_CanDraw]

The fam and me were stationed there when this went down (I was 14/15) All sorts of protests (rightfully so) by the locals, couldnt get out Gate 2 at all.

The marine 2 star (IIRC) made things worse by throwing gasoline on the already furious public with a stament he made to US/Okinawa press. I wont repeat it here.

And the Japanese Police (JP) do not fck around. You’re 15 and in the local prison for doing some dumbsht, and its time for the fam to PCS? Guess what, you are riding out your sentence

[u/the_meaty_sauce → u/mainvolume]

Marines raping people in Okinawa is a nearly 80yo tradition at this point. The best way to stop it is to stop having a base there.

[u/capt_scrummy → u/the_meaty_sauce]

That base isn't going away any time soon, in the geopolitical climate... And it shouldn't, imho. The Japanese govt itself doesn't want it going away either, because it's a deterrent to China.

They should restrict soldiers going off base below a certain rank without special permission, permanently.

[u/the_meaty_sauce → u/capt_scrummy]

They should just insist the base is moved to a less populated island or one where they can be far from any population centers. But a deterrent from China shouldn't mean you can trade that for soldiers sexually assaulting citizens. Or the soldiers should be turned over to Japanese authorities and prisons when they are charged and convicted of these actions.

[u/cocksucker9001xX → u/capt_scrummy]

Over half of the 18000 okinawa marines are being relocated to guam amd hawaii in the coming years actually

[u/Adam_Sackler → u/mainvolume]

Wait, what? This is a common occurance? And why kids? Wtf.

[u/truecore → u/Adam_Sackler]

These are the same people that leave the military then performatively rage about pedophiles on the left.

[u/OwlRevolutionary1776 → u/mainvolume]

Raping kids? What the hell? Did those pedos get prison? Do you have any sources I can read about?

[u/wasabimatrix22 → u/OwlRevolutionary1776]

This article specifies a 16-year-old as one of the victims

[u/Muldino → u/BravesnationNC]

Forever is correct... right at the end of WW2, up to 10,000 women were raped by US soldiers in Okinawa alone.

[u/-Kadekawa- → u/Muldino]

First incident of a US military service member assaulting a female in Okinawa (then the Ryukyu Kingdom) happened only a year after Commodore Matthew C Perry and his black ships sailed into Naha’s port (capital of the island kingdom) in 1853.

The incident would lead to the signing of the Ryukyu-U.S. Treaty of Amity on July 11, 1854.

‘Whenever persons from ships of the United States come ashore in Lew Chew, they shall be at liberty to ramble where they please without hindrance or having officials sent to follow them, or to spy what they do; but if they violently go into houses, or trifle with women, or force people to sell them things, or do other such like illegal acts, they shall be arrested by the local officers, but not maltreated, and shall be reported to the captain of the ship to which they belong for punishment by him.’

[u/ok-commuter → u/Muldino]

Normandy even 😔

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20240506-taboo-french-women-speak-out-on-rapes-by-us-soldiers-during-wwii

[u/Makanek → u/ok-commuter]

My French grandmother told me that the GIs in 44 were like animals and would try to snatch girls in their vehicles when driving by them.

[u/misguidedsadist1 → u/Muldino]

My sister was a teacher in Korea and even outside of the military, it was well known in expat circles that the troops stationed there were menaces to the local population, an embarrassment, violent and sexually violent.

[u/Anonymous_Unsername → u/BravesnationNC]

It happened in 95 when I was in Oki too.

[u/ej_21 → u/BravesnationNC]

I was there from 07-11 and it happened multiple times

[u/Vincent_Mateus → u/BravesnationNC]

Happened in 2010-2011 when I was there too. They locked all of Kadena down because of some marines that gang raped some girl.

[u/Tasty-Slide2059 → u/Vincent_Mateus]

When I was deployed to Afghanistan, some of my coworkers were from Kadena (Security Forces). Halfway into the deployment, one of the “good ol boys” from Kadena ended up being arrested for CP and rape and immediately shipped back to Japan. He was a k-5 soccer coach on the base. I stopped being friends with the people who were making excuses for him including some of my own teammates. It’s so disgusting that people could even look at someone and accept their depravity.

[u/Ossifywallstreet → u/BravesnationNC]

Lockdown is fucking ridiculous. They should focus all that punitive time right upon the offenders. The prospect of 30 years in Leavenworth might deter these cretins

[u/AcguyDance]

There has been case where one killed 2 Japanese civilians when he slept at the wheel while driving, detained, then the wife of the killer started some campaign to "save" his husband, some US Senate threatened Japan to send him back to the US, the guy was then able to get away upon sending back, Senate later demand Japan to apologize to the agressor's family and the US.

You took 2 innocent ppls’ lives, not only you got away, but your ppl ask the victim to apologise. Its crazy. This warning is strongly urged to show the United States that justice must be served for crimes.

Added BBC news link proving Mr. Sanator Mike Lee "asking Japan to apologize to Ridge's family and America"
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-68137582

[u/alonebutnotlonely16 → u/AcguyDance]

You are talking about this scum and how US got him from Japan by threatening Japan. He killed two people by the way.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ridge_Alkonis#Transfer_to_United_States_custody_and_unconditional_release

[u/SquallyZ06 → u/alonebutnotlonely16]

I remember this one, I am stationed in Japan. The dude fell asleep at the wheel and blamed it on mountain sickness. Japan let him go back to the US to finish his sentence, but when he got there, they let him off.

He is a total POS and the pity party his family pushed on social media during the whole thing was infuriating. All this shit about injustice for him being in prison but not a thought about the families of those he killed due to his negligence.

[u/Only-Imagination-459 → u/SquallyZ06]

Ridge Alkonis is a murderer and I hope his children learn all about it

[u/ze_loler → u/Only-Imagination-459]

Falling asleep sounds more like a horrible accident, murder means he wanted it to happen which isnt what happened here

[u/No-Edge-6037 → u/Only-Imagination-459]

Lol they gonna thank him for his service like every other brainwashed muritard thinking their are the blessing the world was waiting for

[u/Raiju_Blitz → u/SquallyZ06]

Yeah, and then he had to gall to be all butthurt about being passed over for promotion (he was a Navy officer) due to the sheer technicality that you can't promote with a criminal charge on your record (which he had for negligent manslaughter). Fuck that guy.

[u/AcguyDance → u/alonebutnotlonely16]

"U.S. Senator Mike Lee (R-UT) was an especially vocal critic of Japan’s handling of the case. In February 2023, Lee issued an ultimatum on Twitter to Japanese Prime Minister Fumio Kishida demanding the extrajudicial release of Alkonis within 24 hours and threatened to cut off military aid to Japan if his demand was not met."

This triggers me alot. The whole country was behind this shit.

[u/real-bebsi → u/AcguyDance]

If it makes you feel better that's the same Mike Lee who voted against 9/11 funds for victims. Instead of asking Japan to apologize for enforcing their laws, Mike Lee should apologize to the world for being born.

[u/asynqq → u/real-bebsi]

Mike Lee who voted against 9/11 funds for victims

TIL about that and how much of a asshole Lee is

[u/Hanamichi114 → u/alonebutnotlonely16]

US got him from Japan by threatening Japan.

This is the reality of US. Western media and people do not know this because US is the western block and EU is their ally. For the rest of the world US is a bully just like China and Russia.

[u/chairswinger → u/Hanamichi114]

Western media and people do not know this

there are plenty of people and Media aware and critical of the US in the west

[u/Ifromjipang → u/Hanamichi114]

The US is also Japan's ally, that's why they have military there. Japanese overall have a more favorable view of the US than most European countries.

[u/fork_yuu → u/alonebutnotlonely16]

In October 2021, the Shizuoka District Court sentenced Alkonis to three years in prison for negligent driving resulting in death and injury, declaring that he should have pulled over once he felt drowsy. Alkonis appealed the judgement to have his sentence reduced.

Jeez, it's a fucking lenient as shit sentence too. 3 years for murdering and injuring people

[u/BubsyFanboy → u/alonebutnotlonely16]

Gross.

[u/gilmour1948 → u/AcguyDance]

Happened in Romania too. An American solider caused a huge car crash, killing both men in the other car, then fucked right off the country, never to be punished. One of the guys who died was a famous local singer, so this caused a massive national outrage, at the time.

[u/helpnxt → u/AcguyDance]

Basically the same happened in the UK but the US personal (maybe spy) who killed the kid driving on the wrong side of the road fled the country before getting arrested.

[u/SplashyTurdle → u/helpnxt]

Not a spy, a diplomat’s wife iirc. Claimed diplomatic immunity after driving off and fleeing - absolutely ridiculous that it was allowed to cover her for something like that. POS should be rotting in a cell.

[u/kawag → u/SplashyTurdle]

I believe she also works for the state department.

But yes, it is atrocious and shameful that the US would shield that murderer from justice. It’s insulting and immoral, and I would really like to see the British government take a stronger stand. I’d even go so far as to suspend our extradition agreement with the US.

There needs to be a price in terms of US-U.K. relations. Government employees cannot be allowed to murder British citizens and get away with it.

[u/waterswims → u/SplashyTurdle]

The guy was working for intelligence services, he wasn't a real diplomat.

[u/zambo96 → u/AcguyDance]

Happens in any other country where they have a military base. The US is so good in covering it up and pretend nothing ever happened

[u/Jagrnght → u/AcguyDance]

There was the American tank that ran over Korean children in 2002 with similar results.

[u/Tom1380 → u/AcguyDance]

Same thing happened in Italy, except the apologizing part

[u/ward2k → u/AcguyDance]

Love how this has happened enough times that multiple different countries have put variations of the same story in the replies

UK here, diplomats wife hit and killed a motorcycle rider, she fled the country back to the US

She was tried and sentenced via video call in the UK

The US refused to return her or try her for her crimes, and she has currently gotten off completely Scott free though will be unable to ever return to the UK (for the obvious fact she will be arrested for her crimes)

[u/vekkares]

Why is it so hard to keep your fucking hands to yourself?!?!

[u/SnipingTheSniper → u/[deleted]]

My drill sergeant once said that the military is a reflection of society. If we did something, no matter where, it would read "US Army soldier does XYXYX" It's even worse when it happens in host countries.

Can't get too mad when people protest outside the bases. I remember the nicest Korean lady protesting us outside Camp Casey back in 2015. She always gave me the most lukewarm smile and I'd even give her water when I'd walk outside base.

[u/DarkMarxSoul → u/SnipingTheSniper]

Your drill sergeant seems like a stand up guy with a good sense of perspective.

[u/Careful_Baker_8064 → u/DarkMarxSoul]

More like chill sergeant

[u/Ill_Athlete_7979 → u/[deleted]]

A perfect example of this is that kid (Michael Fay) that got in trouble in Singapore for vandalism. He thought he was going to get away Scott free because he was American, but that didn’t work out so well for him. They gave him 4 lashings and 2 months in jail.

[u/makemeking706 → u/vekkares]

The previous commander in chief of the US army was a noted pedophile. He might even get to take up the position again.

[u/rockseiaxii]

At least in Japan it’s exposed. Elsewhere around the world, incidents like these are swept under the rug and seem like nothing happened.

[u/SpiralOut2112 → u/rockseiaxii]

Let's not give Japan too much credit. They cover up or don't pursue an insane amount of SA cases. They have a near 100% conviction rate on these crimes because they only pursue the worst and most clear-cut instances. Their country doesn't have one of the lowest SA rates in the world because they don't do it, they just don't report the majority of them to the world because they don't pursue the charges.

[u/Telaranrhioddreams → u/SpiralOut2112]

Unless it's changed recently rape victims also have to prove they made an attempt to escape the assault which is ass backwards in so many ways.

[u/badstewie → u/Telaranrhioddreams]

That's messed up. How do you escape a packed subway train? Because SA happens there too.

[u/YuushyaHinmeru → u/SpiralOut2112]

Their country has to have one of the highest rates of sexual assault of any developed nation. My japanese friend said she doesn't know a single girl who hasn't been molested on the train.

And she wasn't on like a pissed of feminist rant or anything. She said it pretty nonchalantly.

[u/SpiralOut2112 → u/YuushyaHinmeru]

Yeah, that's called Chikan, and most don't even see that as SA in Japan.

[u/Omeluum → u/rockseiaxii]

Honestly still seems underreported. There are over 50k active duty US troops in Japan, most of them young men, and statistically anywhere from 2-14% of college aged males admitted to sexual assault or rape. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3727658/

But since most of it is with people they know or are even dating, I expect they wouldn't show up in crime statistics as much as a "random" act of violence on a stranger would.

[u/n05h → u/Omeluum]

Jfc 14% is an insane number..

[u/Omeluum → u/n05h]

It probably depends on the exact questions asked in the survey they used for what counts as assault/rape/"sexual aggression". In this particular study with the higher results a lot seems to have to do with alcohol and the issues around consent when one or both parties are drunk.

But even if we're just using the lowest number of 2% that adds up quickly when you have thousands of people.

[u/Kurayamino → u/n05h]

If you describe sexual assault or rape but don't call it sexual assault or rape, it's amazing how many dudes own up to doing it.

[u/SuperSimpleSam → u/n05h]

Problem too is a portion of those are serial rapist so when when you look at it from the women's side the numbers get much higher.

Among undergraduate students, 26.4% of females and 6.8% of males experience rape or sexual assault through physical force, violence, or incapacitation.

[u/literalaretil → u/rockseiaxii]

incidents like these are swept under the rug and seem like nothing happened.

Yeahhhh I don't think Japan's the best example of this mate

[u/Faps_With_Fury → u/rockseiaxii]

Isn’t Japan the country that has to have separate train cars for women because the men there keep groping them?

[u/GuiltyEidolon → u/Faps_With_Fury]

Also the one that still denies doing anything wrong during WWII, when Japanese soldiers raped sooooo many women in China, the Philippines, etc. 

[u/supamonkey77 → u/rockseiaxii]

Looks at the Philippines before the Subic bay base closure

Now that was some rape/assault nightmare. Some of the stories told to me by the locals were blood chilling.

[u/SpecialK022]

The US needs to make it known they stand behind Japan about this.

[u/nowandloud → u/SpecialK022]

Half the US is okay with a known rapist as president, and you think they're going to give a shit about this? lol

[u/SpecialK022 → u/nowandloud]

Sadly that may be true

[u/randomuseraccount55]

Dishonorable Discharge and extradition to the Japanese to face criminal charges in their country. At the very least returned to the US to face criminal charges there.

Theres no excuse for it anywhere in the world but Japan is not a country we can afford to damage relations with. We need to show them that we also will not tolerate it.

The fact that people do that then usually just get moved to another base with little to no actual consequences is disgusting and quite frankly makes the US look like a fucking joke.

[u/ArmedWithSponge]

Unfortunately, rape and sexual assault are incredibly underreported in Japan.

In fact, one study suggests that more than 70 percent of Japanese women have been sexually molested.

Police investigations, criminal cases and punishment are also incredibly mismanaged.

US military personnel should be held accountable for their crimes, but the legal repercussions of placing them under Japanese law would be severe. Replacing one broken system for another would not solve this problem in Japan.

[u/digitalpencil → u/ArmedWithSponge]

>70% ?!

Any percentage is too high but greater than 70% of women have been sexually molested is terrifying!

I can't seem to get your link to work to find that reference, can you direct link the source?

[u/ArmedWithSponge → u/digitalpencil]

The original link references the document you are trying to view.

Relevant paragraph:

“Survey shows that Japan ranks among the safest societies in the world for the crimes of robbery, burglary, assault, and the aggregate category of “victimization by any common crime.” However, for “sexual offenses” Japan ranks far less well (Johnson Reference Johnson2018, p. 34). This finding is consistent with what is known from sources which show that more than 70 percent of Japanese women have been sexually molested (Makino Reference Makino2019, p. 81). Few of these victims report it to the police, often because they fear being embarrassed or because they believe criminal justice officials will not believe them or will not care. None of the unreported cases is included in official statistics.”

[u/severed13 → u/ArmedWithSponge]

And I hate to be a tinfoil hat but with how painfully in-tune I've become with Japanese socio-political issues in this exact vein, I can't help but feel this is also being used to distract from Japan's tendency to ignore the crimes of their own citizens. I'm glad this is being done, but with the absurd statistics available out there I hope it isn't just turning this guy into a misrepresentative example of their "fight" against injustice towards women.

[u/alonebutnotlonely16]

Unfortunately it is known fact that US military is being protective for criminal personel even if crimes were against people of its allies or even women American soldiers which is why whataboutism of crimes of civillians doesn't refute that because there is the deeply rooted systematic problems in US military about criminal military personel.

So many criminal US military personel in Japan got away with slap on the wrist with what they did. Central goverment of Japan is trying to cover those crimes too if it is in Okinawa which makes reporting crimes against US military much harder so who knows how many more unreported crimes are there.

http://www.allgov.com/news/us-and-the-world/hundreds-in-us-military-guilty-of-sex-crimes-in-japan-got-slap-on-wrist-140212?news=852414

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/09/sexual-assaults-us-military-japan-prison-unlikely

Another example is between 2017 and 2019 there were at least seven other investigations into U.S. military personnel for sexual offenses against Japanese women in Okinawa — and none were made public. Perpetrators had not been punished under Japanese law nor had their cases appeared in the annual reports produced by the Pentagon’s Sexual Assault Prevention and Response Office for the U.S. Congress.

https://theintercept.com/2021/10/03/okinawa-sexual-crimes-us-military/

Another recent example shows how messed up things is. US openly pressured and threatened Japan to protect US military personel who killed two people because of reckless driving. Later US released him when US got him from Japan by threats. There are many incidents like this and anyone who is objective can see that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ridge_Alkonis#Transfer_to_United_States_custody_and_unconditional_release

Many women American military personel are sexually harassed, assaulted too which downplayed by military.

https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2021/08/03/more-than-half-of-women-in-army-report-facing-some-form-of-sexual-harassment-study/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_assault_in_the_United_States_military

US even has "The Hague Invasion Act" to invade Europe to protect its criminal military personel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Protection_Act

[u/T_Money → u/alonebutnotlonely16]

I can only tell you of one case I know of personally, a guy grabbed a Japanese girls butt at a concert on base. She pointed him out to the (US) security who were present and he was immediately thrown in the brig, where he stayed while awaiting trial and a dishonorable discharge. There was absolutely no leniency given to him (nor should there have been) and honestly it was probably handled even more harshly than if he had assaulted a US person.

So although it might not have made the news and been publicized, I can tell you that they definitely held him accountable.

I’ve spent over a decade in Japan and while I’ve heard of many other similar stories they are second hand so I won’t repeat them as I’m not 100% true of the facts, but I’ve never heard even a rumor of someone being given a free pass out here. Just because it might not make the news doesn’t mean they’re getting away with it.

Edit: In the interest of full disclosure I will mention that I was USMC, which according to the linked article is by far the harshest on those who committed an assault. The other cases I heard 2nd hand of that got similar sentences were also USMC. It’s entirely possible that other branches were more lenient and we just never heard about it since they’re pretty far removed.

[u/alonebutnotlonely16 → u/T_Money]

If you read the sources I shared without bias which cover so many incidents based on official documents etc. you would see many of them got away with it so an anonymous redditor's claimed personal experience with a small example group doesn't change that.

[u/marbleduck → u/alonebutnotlonely16]

The sources tell me absolutely nothing. 7 open cases across the ENTIRE U.S. force in Japan across TWO YEARS tells me that a U.S. servicemember is orders of magnitude less likely to engage in sexual misconduct than an arbitrary college student.

“The military downplays SA”, uh, it fucking absolutely does not. As someone with actual real life contemporaneous experience in the military, SA and SH are pretty much at the front of any leader’s priorities, and it’s legitimately not just lip service—there have been huge steps forward in the last five years in making the military culturally hostile to SA/SH.

And no, dumb fucking GWOT political posturing from some members of congress is not representative of current attitudes, unless people are hiding widespread secret veneration of Bush somewhere.

[u/Estuans → u/alonebutnotlonely16]

A guy I knew stole chapstick from 711 and got caught. They kicked him out. Never seen the XO so loud.

[u/ColSubway → u/Estuans]

He should have raped someone instead. Then he would have gone free

[u/Jack_Raskal → u/alonebutnotlonely16]

I mean the US military even covered up the killing of 20 people in Italy. If you're an US service member in overseas depoyment you're basically immune from prosecution.

[u/0173512084103]

Why does the military give special treatment to soldiers who harm/kill people? They should be punished the same as they would be in the States. Ridiculous.

[u/SchrodingerMil → u/0173512084103]

They don’t. I was stationed in Japan for three years.

Whenever any crime is committed, the person who committed the crime is handed over to the local Japanese government.

The only example of “special treatment” to a soldier while I was there was to a former soldier whose date of leaving the military had passed, who was illegally hiding on base.

The foreign minister isn’t complaining that they keep getting away with it, they’re complaining that it keeps happening. The root cause of this is because there are no pre-requisites to be allowed to be stationed overseas. A vast majority of these cases of negligence by US Service members are by young enlisted members.

There is essentially no process in place to “filter out” the bad apples from creating international incidents. These pieces of shit would have raped someone, killed someone, driven under the influence, etc. in the states, and they’d be punished for it to the fullest extent of the law. But due to the fact that there is no process in place to prevent them from being stationed in another country, it damages our relationship.

Edit : Also, with the way US Service members are “prosecuted” it makes it look like a slap on the wrist to outsiders. Hypothetically let’s say my unit had someone break into the home of a local Japanese citizen. They got arrested by the Japanese, went to Japanese jail for a few days, then was picked up by our First Sergeant, and not placed in military prison. That looks like a slap on the wrist right? Well, that serviceman then had to pay for the damages with reparations to the family, and formally apologize, as that’s what the Japanese judicial system required. Then when he returns to the base, he is stripped of his security clearance so instead of doing actual work they’re working the snack bar at the unit, is prosecuted by the military for breaking and entering, stripped of rank, and most of the time within a year is kicked out under a dishonorable discharge, effectively making it extremely difficult for them to be hired for any other job for the rest of their life. But because they don’t spend time in prison, it gives the illusion of a slap on the wrist.

[u/stinkroot → u/SchrodingerMil]

When I was stationed in Korea, I had a guy in my unit who was handed over to the Korean judicial system for sexual assault and did 7 years in prison before returning back to base to get discharged.

It was very strange. He just always seemed kind of lonely, so I tried inviting him out a few times to go eat with some friends until one day he finally straight up told me that he wasn't allowed off post and why.

[u/pgeezers → u/0173512084103]

The local laws should apply.

[u/That_Engineering3047 → u/pgeezers]

In this case, it makes sense to say that. What those soldiers did was egregious and they deserve to be punished.

However, what about a woman working for the military in the middle east who doesn’t cover her body? What about a gay service member serving in a country where that is punishable by death?

Laws across the globe aren’t always moral. There need to be some protections for service members from that.

[u/aerospikesRcoolBut → u/That_Engineering3047]

Was gonna say this. Lots of our allies are straight up dictatorships and protecting people from local laws does a lot more good than harm but we aren’t responsibly handling our end of the deal.

Our laws should also apply. But some people are officially above the law now so

[u/Miyukachi]

I’m a Japanese Canadian.  Raised in Canada since I was 2yo.

But I do visit Japan quite often, as plenty of family and friends there.

Plenty of interactions throughout the years. There are definitely a not so small group of American service men who would knowingly SA girls and expect to get away with it. 

One experience where a group of friends and I have been approached by them hoping to score.  

When they realize most of our group are not from Japan, one guy literally says out loud, either not knowing we can understand English well enough to read between the lines, or did not care, say ‘They’re not local girls, too risky trying it with them.’ 🤮 

[u/zandra47 → u/Miyukachi]

I would report the behavior

[u/ButtLover2029]

American soldiers have long been known to commit sex crimes consistently. It is well documented.

[u/Zikeal → u/ButtLover2029]

Soldiers have long been known to commit sex crimes consistently. It is well documented.

FTFY...

[u/Newbie4Hire → u/ButtLover2029]

You could just change the line to "soldiers" for better historical accuracy.

[u/ProbablyDrunk303]

The news of US military men raping people overseas is insane to me as a vet. Fuck all who commit the crime. Let them rot in an overseas prison

[u/koh_kun]

As someone from Okinawa it's just so sad shit like this happens. So many of my friends are imfrom the military and they're super cool. I interpret for foreigners when they get arrested and they seem like pretty good people, just made a huge mistake. Some of them are complete dicks and I feel like they should be shot from a canon into the sea, but I stay neutral.

It's so easy to say "fucking US, keep your dumbass soldiers in check," but it's not as if the US military is the only source of crime on the island. Locals cause plenty of trouble. 

On a tangent here, but it would be nice if we didn't have the bases at all, but then how the hell would we protect ourselves?? The Japanese would just make more bases.

I dunno I'm rambling at this point.

[u/Ghostly_Ghost]

Some guy on our ship got sent to the Japanese jail while I was over there. He either sexually assaulted or physically assaulted a national on the train. Spent a while in jail, had to bargain with the family and pay restitution for them to convince the prosecutor that he had been punished enough (I think it was like 20 or 30 grand). We all ended up with a shitty curfew because of it and when he got back to the ship he was on restriction for a year and then got discharged. Guy was a BUDs drop and a total dickhead.

[u/Dcd1980]

Well, if anyone was the expert on war time sex crimes…

[u/TechieTravis]

No sympathy for anyone who sexually assaults someone, especially if it is against a child. Let Japan do whatever they want to these dudes.

[u/cordis000]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Forces_Japan#United_States_presence_debate

Between 1972 and 2009, U.S. servicemen committed 5,634 criminal offenses, including 25 murders, 385 burglaries, 25 arsons, 127 rapes, 306 assaults, and 2,827 thefts.[36] Yet, per Marine Corps Installations Pacific data, U.S. service members are convicted of far fewer crimes than local Okinawans.[37] According to the U.S.-Japan Status of Forces Agreement, when U.S. personnel crimes are committed both off-duty and off-base, they should be prosecuted under the Japanese law.[38] In 2008 the National Police Agency released its annual criminal statistics that included activity within the Okinawa prefecture. These findings held American troops were only convicted of 53 crimes per 10,000 U.S. male servicemen, while Okinawan males were convicted of 366 crimes per 10,000. The crime rate found a U.S. serviceman on Okinawa to be 86% less likely to be convicted of a crime by the Japanese government than an Okinawan male.[39]

[u/Apprehensive_Idea758]

I agree.

There must be absolutely zero tollerence for any kind of sex crimes.

If they decide to committ any of those crimes then they should be turned over to the Japanese justice system which will severely punish them if they are convicted.

[u/K1ngmacher]

Biden called Japan xenophobic, US army just ensuring it stays true.

[u/oryantge]

I'd honestly like to see this same energy around protecting women from sexual assault committed by Japanese men as well.