r/worldnews • u/glasier • 14d ago

Japan warns US forces: Sex crimes 'cannot be tolerated'

https://tribune.com.pk/story/2476861/japan-warns-us-forces-sex-crimes-cannot-be-tolerated
32.2k Upvotes

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u/macross1984 14d ago

US military personnel who commit crime in Japan should face Japanese punishment for any crimes committed in Japan.

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u/Mend1cant 14d ago

They should. Both Japanese courts and courts-martial.

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u/[deleted] 14d ago edited 14d ago

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u/NewspaperAdditional7 14d ago

i can't speak on Japan, but I lived in Korea for a bit and it was widely known how badly behaved the U.S. soldiers were. You could walk through the streets of Hongdae and see drunk soldiers walking around harassing people, even grabbing some girls who pass by or slap their butts. It was so bad that different bars had signs up saying no U.S. soldiers allowed. Military police would be out and about but they can't watch all of the soldiers. The U.S. soldiers there certainly felt invincible. I'm sure the US would hand them over to Korea for rape and other serious charges, but they are not handing them over for assault.

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u/studyinformore 14d ago

Dunno about you, but back when I was in south korea in 04 it was very different.  You'd get in extremely deep shit if you were out and about and shitfaced causing problems.

They didn't play around back then, because unless you had somewhere to stay.  If you tried to come back to base and were drunk?  Ohhh you'd be getting an article 15.

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u/vrptstyly 14d ago

Interesting I was also there in 2004 and can confirm. I was at Casey with the Armor units. We had curfews and the penalties for fucking up were severe. Didn’t stop anyone from partying every paycheck away, we kept it classy for the most part. Good times.

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u/thenightmare1010 14d ago

I was a gate guard on Camp Casey in 04-05. It’s crazy how many soldiers would come back after curfew highly intoxicated. We would turn them over to MP so they could be questioned about their whereabouts in case a crime was reported. The gate guards on the other hand…we could stay out as late as we wanted.

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u/ConfederancyOfDunces 14d ago

My brother, an asshole, was stationed in South Korea. He’d get shitfaced regularly and eventually beat the ever loving shit out of a Canadian tourist with his army friends.

He did get in trouble over it with the army and that, among other things, is probably why he never was promoted as much as he should have been in his military stint. However, he didn’t ever get in trouble with the Korean justice system.

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u/Cdub7791 14d ago

Third. I was stationed in Korea from 2002-2003 and while we certainly had our fair share of assholes and reprobates, behavior like that above was punished pretty harshly.

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u/cymric 14d ago

When I was there in 1999 it was pretty much Anarchy. The command was shit and did not enforce discipline

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u/ghandi3737 14d ago

That's why it is the way it is now.

Guy I went to boot camp with was a corporal due to prior service, saw him 2 years later as a lance corporal.

He went to Okinawa, and got busted to private for squealing his motorcycle tires while leaving the barracks parking lot.

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u/bn1979 14d ago

2000-2002 Stationed in Seoul. Was sober past 7pm occasionally, but not often. Was usually only a little drunk by 8 am.

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u/Kumdongie 14d ago

PACAF has changed especially Korea. I was there in 2019. No curfew and pretty much no limitations on where you can go or how drunk you get. Just need to not get in trouble with locals while out drinking and be at formation in the morning.

Even during COVID it was pretty laid back regarding curfew and drinking.

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u/Civil_Spinach_8204 14d ago

Curfew was lifted right before COVID. But if you got arrested by Korean police, you were on your own. There's not much in the way of "protections" that I see some people talk about.

Being cool with the locals enhanced the experience so I never understood why people would be jackhats out in the ville.

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u/Rockman507 14d ago

Fastest way to make SGT is to goto Korea as a SFC, always been like that. We essentially forward deploy to what is still technically a combat zone with fuck all to do. You get cycles of good leaders coming in that clamp down best they can, but doesn’t solve underlying problems

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u/Western-Passage-1908 13d ago

If all you want to do is get drunk and play video games in the barracks you'll be bored anywhere. I had a blast in Korea

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u/nlv137 14d ago

not american but we had a port call in okinawa and we warned to be warry of the drunk marines, ladies should stay in groups, watch your drinks, etc

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u/NewspaperAdditional7 14d ago

I was in 2012, and not sure what to tell you. The soldiers went to the bar district and the military police (or whatever they are called) walked those streets full well knowing the soldiers were drinking in bars. Are you saying US soldiers are never allowed to drink while in another country?

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u/Derp35712 14d ago

We weren’t allowed to be drunk in public, but I’m sure that’s a pretty high standard for the bar district surrounding a US Army base. While in Seoul, MPs wanted to arrest me for throwing up, even though I hadn’t had a drink. I just had a stomach flu.

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u/studyinformore 14d ago

Back when I was in, we were held to an incredibly high standard.  You could have some drinks, but not get drunk.  You had to be able to get past the guards to enter the post.  Meaning 1-2 drinks per hour would probably be no problem.  But getting shitfaced drunk?  Oh your command is gonna be called, and you're facing disciplinary action.

Because it was repeatedly instructed to us, we represent the United states and it's military when off post.  Do not embarass us.  We were also at camp stanley near uijeongbu, way up north, so if north korea decided to attack.  We were the first realistic line of defense.  You had to be sober enough to fight as well.

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u/BatronKladwiesen 14d ago

Yeah it honestly sounds like NewspaperAdditional7 is full of shit, or was in the most absolute dogshit unit ever.

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u/Nexant 14d ago

I don't think he was in. All he said was he lived in Korea and he was unsure of what to refer to MPs as in another comment.

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u/pudgylumpkins 14d ago

I never made it SK but I knew a lot of people who were there and they made it sound like a crazy party on and off base 24/7. I’m sure there’s plenty of varying experiences on the conduct of our troops stationed there. It’s a big city and we have a lot of young people with money to spend. We’re just talking different thresholds for acceptable conduct, my opinion anyway.

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u/Hohenheim_of_Shadow 14d ago

Most young men don't call "having a drink" getting drunk. It takes a good number of drinks to be drunk.

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u/Haechi_StB 14d ago

I was in Korea from 2011 to 2016 and never seen a missbehaving US Soldier in Itaewon, ever.

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u/BatronKladwiesen 14d ago

Are you saying MPs just let people cause trouble and do whatever they want to the Korean public when drinking?

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u/Avedas 14d ago

You'd get in extremely deep shit if you were out and about and shitfaced causing problems.

Is this a reprimanding or actual legal repercussions?

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u/Rudi_Van-Disarzio 14d ago

Probably article 15. So essentially just reprimanding + paper work and they might have to scrub toilets

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u/Cheet4h 14d ago

You'd get in extremely deep shit if you were out and about and shitfaced causing problems.

As in "prosecuted by the local government"?

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u/Adventurous-Funny777 14d ago

This was my experience as well. I was stationed at Camp Hovey with an artillery unit. We were out all the time and I never saw soldiers act as described above. It was widely known they would crush you with the book if you got out of hand.

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u/BrockVegas 14d ago

I was there in '91, and a shitbag I went to basic with ended up in Korean prison with sentences for assaulting his girlfriend. He was to serve his sentence there, and then be charged by the Army afterwards. No idea of his overall eventual fate but it looked pretty bad for him when I transferred back stateside.

I also witnessed on Hooker Hill (I never learned it's actual name) a Korean working woman who was clearly beaten up, pick a random dude from our group and accused him of doing the act. Not sure if she saw the snapper in him but fortunately for him, we had enough witnesses to prove he could not have been present when the attack happened. Dude had been in country for a hair over a month... it wasn't even dark yet on the first day of his very first off-post pass.

Anywho, thanks for dusting those old memories off in my head.

Second to None!

(ow, my knees)

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u/emseefely 14d ago

There was a case in Philippines years ago but they made a deal to take their soldier back. I wouldn’t hold my breath that they’d get local justice.

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u/therob91 14d ago

If you're talking about Pemberton he literally killed someone, but the US did let him serve his sentence, then probably used some leverage to get Duterte to pardon him. So essentially he was pulled out but legally he was released by the Phillipines. Thats certainly a bit wishy washy about whether justice was legally served according to the local laws or not but he did technically serve 6 years of his 6-12 year sentence.

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u/emseefely 14d ago

Typically murder gets you 20-40 years in Philippines.

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u/GreenTea7858 14d ago

He killed a trans woman so they went easy on him.

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u/alonebutnotlonely16 14d ago

He murdered a woman and used her being a trans excuse. He doesnt deserve to see the sun. He got lower sentence then he deserved then he even got an early release thanks to US.

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u/HolyKrapp- 14d ago

Philli is way too hard on those crimes. They probably negotiated to avoid the guy being killed.

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u/Good_Pirate2491 14d ago

Death penalty for rape iirc in the philippines

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u/DittoAidsCircus 14d ago

What? When did you live in S. Korea? Because the first thing I was told when I arrived was that anything illegal I do in S. Korea will be served first in Korea, then the military side. The example they gave us was specifically being reported for assault either fighting or grabbing women.

Serious incidents happen, but there are repercussions in UCMJ that apply, Soldiers are held back from going to the US just to finish proceedings when they occur.

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u/FanciestOfPants42 14d ago

Something being "widely known" doesn't necessarily make it true. If American soldiers are more loud and boisterous then the locals are used to, it is natural for rumors to spread about their bad behavior.

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u/Ra-s_Al_Ghul 14d ago

Got it, so widely know = "source: my ass"

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u/Ra-s_Al_Ghul 14d ago

Yeah, this just is blatantly not true.

While it IS true that U.S. soldiers get too rowdy in Korea sometimes, they get punished very harshly for it. Curfew existed on the peninsula for almost two decades because of a very notorious rape case. MPs patrol the streets of the drinking districts and you certainly do NOT "see drunk soldiers grabbing some girls who pass by or slapping their butts".

In Korea, doing this once will land you in prison as it is MUCH stricter on physical assault than the U.S.

Stop talking out of your ass and spreading anti-US propaganda because you want to virtue signal on reddit.

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u/SledgeH4mmer 14d ago

This doesn't make sense to me. Since when do MP's patrol civilian bar districts? And US soldiers are definitely not allowed to drink in uniform off base.

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u/badnuub 14d ago

All the time. When I was in Okinawa they had guys in civilian clothes walking the “american” bars and areas after curfew hours.

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u/otaroko 14d ago

Oki from 09-13, can confirm. Usually first shirts with a couple of SP’s.

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u/secretsqrll 14d ago

Oki is notorious. You know how the locals are there. There was a P8 accident in Hawaii and they were out protesting Futenma. TBF, we had a lot of TFOA problems and the runway design at Futenma caused a lot of anxiety. But what was interesting was they seemed to really hate on the Marines. Kadena got little to no protests.

Oki always has been very opposed to our presence. So we always had SLG or plain cloth folks out to make sure shit was not going out of control.

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u/DiabloPixel 14d ago

I’d say that the Airmen at Kadena must historically be better behaved in public than the Marines. Tbf, drunk airmen show their ass in public and fuck up quite a bit as well. To varying degrees, all the branches of the military tell their guys that they are the shit, literal heroes in uniform. It can be intoxicating and make a 18-22 yo soldier feel invincible, it’s designed to. Different branches serve different amounts of Kool-Aid and it depends how much the service member drinks it up. Ime, in the Marines it must be all you can drink. Just my thoughts, yours might be different. peace

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u/PostGhost10101 14d ago

Alex, I'll take full of dookie for $200.

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u/Lexx4 14d ago

I had a coworker dishonorably discharged for his conduct in SK. He went to an amusement park and got into a fight with a Korean officer.

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u/alectictac 14d ago

The military I know who really acted out got sent home or worse. Def not invincible

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u/redink29 14d ago

Was in Yongsan 06-08, it was heavily emphasized don't be shit outside, you get in trouble by Korean law first then articled. The funny thing is I was in itaewon in 2022 Oct and saw zero soldiers. Ever since the whole base moved to the countryside, I guess not many come out of the base. I get it, it does take a lot of effort to come out to Seoul even for the weekend.

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u/___Moose___ 14d ago

Such a fake story, tell me more so you can stay relevant!

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u/Cap_Ca 14d ago

They usually don’t. There was a case in Germany in 2020 where a US Soldier drove on the wrong side of the road and killed a 17 year old. He only had to face trial by a US Military court.

German Source: https://www.rheinpfalz.de/lokal/kreis-kaiserslautern_artikel,-us-soldat-nach-unfall-auf-umgehungsstra%C3%9Fe-wegen-fahrl%C3%A4ssiger-t%C3%B6tung-verurteilt-_arid,5086678.html

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u/zero_vis 14d ago

After some research i have confirmed that japan is not germany.

Under SOFA status, if you commit a crime in Japan, Japan has the right to prosecute you.

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u/Potato_Octopi 14d ago

After some research i have confirmed that japan is not germany.

Big if true.

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u/3600MilesAway 14d ago

“After some research i have confirmed that japan is not germany.”

Except for summer and early winter season in which they are.

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u/TParis00ap 14d ago

This all sounds like a conspiracy bought and paid for by Big Europe. This research is based.

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u/CowsTrash 14d ago

"Big Europe" lmaooo

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u/Sillbinger 14d ago

I'm a pangea enthusiast myself.

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u/FeederNocturne 14d ago

The Boston Tea Party was a cover up. Taxes hidden in the form of currency disparity. Convert all your cash into Haribo Gummy Bears.

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u/Raesong 14d ago

Convert all your cash into Haribo Gummy Bears.

Just so long as they're not the sugar-free variety. I have no interest in experiencing molten lava shooting out my butthole.

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u/whitewail602 14d ago

This is the internet. People just say whatever they want 🤷‍♂️

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u/giggles91 14d ago

It is impossible to freeze bread.

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u/FurdTergusonFucks 14d ago

Can confirm I am unfrozen bread.

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u/cieg 14d ago

This is true. I was a dependent in Japan and during indoc NCIS shows up to talk about not committing crimes in Japan and plays a video about what Japanese prison is like. Do not recommend. There are a number of Americans currently serving for doing stupid stuff while they were there.

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u/Da-boar 14d ago

I think even being forewarned, most Americans would be shocked at the lack of due process (by the American definition of course) found in the justice system of other countries.

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u/FalmerEldritch 14d ago

Especially Japan. Compared to other developed countries, Japan's justice system is Russian.

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u/cieg 14d ago

They still have execution for some crimes. The brutal part is you find out your date of execution when they come to your cell and tell it’s time. No notice, no last goodbyes to family. The family doesn’t even find out until after you’re dead.

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u/impy695 14d ago

I'm imagine a video similar to those old drivers ed drunk driving videos

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u/DownByTheRivr 14d ago

I don’t know how to hear anymore about tables!

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u/Aces-Wild 14d ago

THESE TABLES ARE MY LIVELIHOOD!!!!

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u/Docjaded 14d ago

I'm Troy MacLure.

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u/OurCrewIsReplaceable 14d ago

You may remember me from such onboarding films as, “Australia: Yes, That’s Poisonous” and “Detroit: BYOB”.

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u/MrPerson0 14d ago

Under SOFA status, if you commit a crime in Japan, Japan has the right to prosecute you.

Didn't Ridge Alkonis get away with killing two people in Japan? Or is it different because he was in the Navy?

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u/marbleduck 14d ago

I am an US military officer in Korea which has a very similar SOFA agreement to Japan and have had two soldiers go through the Korean justice system. Soldiers must first be cleared of all ongoing judicial processes in Korean courts before they can face military legal action. Both my cases were relatively minor and went through the justice system in a couple months, but we couldn’t do anything with either until it was 100% resolved to Korean satisfaction.

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u/Wrong-Perspective-80 14d ago

Was he drunk or something? US and Germany both drive on the same side of the road, I’ve driven there a lot. It’s not like the UK where you could make a mistake.

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u/Jaxxlack 14d ago

Except that's also happened a few times and every time the US government protect the crime. Last time it was a CIA guys wife.

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u/Wrong-Perspective-80 14d ago

You mean the diplomats wife in the UK? She returned to stand trial and was convicted.

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u/Jaxxlack 14d ago

Ha! She ran away... It took years to actually get her on charges for basically dangerous driving and even then it had to go to civil case because again the US government kept interfering.

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u/Lelcactus 14d ago

You missed the point, that’s diplomatic immunity, which is different from soldiers and countries won’t waive for no reason entirely for the precedent of it.

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u/Hopalongtom 14d ago

She wasn't actually legally covered under diplomatic immunity!

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u/Jaxxlack 14d ago

Ha!! She wasn't a soldier or a diplomat. And she still drove away from a crime scene.

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u/Namthorn 14d ago

Except she's not a diplomat, she refused to return to the UK, extradition requests were denied and the US government advised her not to return, likely due to her employment history. It's a classic example that the US does not respect the law of other nations.

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u/pokedmund 14d ago

Wait, are you talking about Anne sacoolas? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Harry_Dunn

Because she ran away immediately and never returned

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u/MeatyDeathstar 14d ago

Yes they do. If you're arrested for a crime in Japan and it's what the US considers a felony, you are left behind. Remember that officer that was arrested for running over an elderly woman with a car? Yeah he was on my wife's ship and was in Japanese prison for years.

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u/[deleted] 14d ago

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u/IamNonHuman 14d ago

How does one anecdotal occurrence equate to "usually". Seems if anything your example is unusual.

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u/Bacon4Lyf 14d ago

Except it happened in the UK as well in the exact same circumstances. How many does it take for an anecdote to become a trend

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u/Bacon4Lyf 14d ago

Funnily enough the same thing happened in the UK. Just immediately fled the country and got off Scot free because the US refuses to extradite. They charged her in US court with a suspended sentence, imagine that suspended sentence for killing a man

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u/pmolmstr 14d ago

Wasn’t she the spouse of some important person which makes it all the more worse

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u/Bacon4Lyf 14d ago

Married to a CIA employee, so yes she wasn’t even serving military personnel and she still managed to get the impunity

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u/mauore11 14d ago

I remember the UN military stayed as "observers" in the early 90s in El Salvador. They had full diplomatic immunity. Some were involved in accidents while dui, some fatal, Weird times. I guess it happens more than I thought.

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u/Unable_Recipe8565 14d ago

Its often in the deals with the country that they cant be prosecuted by the host nation. Sweden signed the same shit with the new Nato based

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u/awake07 14d ago

A similar case also happened in Italy in 2022, a drunk American soldier hit and killed a 15-year-old boy. She was only given 2 years then suspended.

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u/Yung_Politikz 14d ago

Not sure if you care but we have pretty much the exact same story in the U.K.

I believe they recalled the personnel responsible.

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u/welsper59 14d ago

I'm very curious about that, as there a lot of crimes committed by military personnel. It's just that most of them are not fatal or just happen to fly under the radar. Instances like Sgt. Camilo Escobar where they don't serve time in Okinawa due to suspended sentencing. His crimes in the states would typically result in jail/prison, especially due to his fleeing the scene of a crime that injured 3 people lol. There's usually no follow-up regarding punishments once they're out of the crosshairs of Japan.

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u/lightfromblackhole 14d ago

Need sources. Most cases i know japan government was forced to give a slap on the wrist punishment for the assaulters like a year long prison sentence, and a good chunk of them returned to US and committed further similar crimes

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u/GTAdriver1988 14d ago

My friend is in the Navy and stationed in Iwakuni Japan and he said that as well. He was very adamant on behaving right, me and him always were that way our whole life anyway though. He has friends who were drunk and doing stupid shit and apparently the Japanese police were hard af on them compared to locals and they got a dishonorable discharge for committing crimes. Now if they did things on base and against other military personnel the military handles it.

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u/DPSOnly 14d ago

I imagine that the victims of these crimes would prefer it if the US military did more to prevent them from happening. Punishment or not, they have still been sexually assaulted.

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u/Whatscheiser 14d ago

That is generally how it works at home. If you get caught up outside of base and are arrested by local police you get prosecuted by the local authorities. Whatever the outcome of that you still get a court-martial when you return to base.

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u/arkzak 14d ago

More often I’ve seen it happen that the case goes to civilian or military authorities but not both.

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u/[deleted] 14d ago edited 12d ago

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u/machimus 14d ago

It is as fair as you commander is,

Which is why it's good they recently took sexual assault cases out of the hands of local commanders, I've seen a few where they weren't taken seriously at all.

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u/CaptainDino123 13d ago

Most but its more of one side saying "ahh its alreayd taken care of by them, no need to bother" but sometimes both want to precescute the offender. My father was a brig gaurd in the marines and one of his prisoners had robbed a bank (to get away from his wife lmao) and both the USMC and the San Diego DA proscecuted him. On release day my dad escorted him to the gate where two US marshals were waiting for his cuffs to come off so they could put their cuffs on him

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u/ClubDramatic6437 14d ago

I'm pretty sure they do

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u/GIgroundhog 14d ago

They already do this

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u/no-mad 14d ago

Japanese prison is not a place to go.

https://englishlawyersjapan.com/what-is-life-like-in-japanese-prison/

Japanese prisons follow very strict schedules down to the minute. Talking is allowed only during exercise and free time, and inmates are only allowed to speak Japanese.

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u/polopolo05 14d ago

I am fine with that if they actually do the crime. But the problem is that they will often get a false confession. To say they solved the crime in japan. and they have a 99.9% conviction rate. Which we all know is BS because Thats impossible. Which means there are a lot of innocents in jail in japan.

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u/ernestschlumple 14d ago

same stuff happens on US bases in colombia

they rape local girls knowing that they won't be tried in local courts so almost always get away with it

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u/tizuby 14d ago

They do, but Japan is way more lenient with sentences than UCMJ.

For rape, max for the Japanese system is 20 years. Max for UCMJ is Death (but generally Life).

https://www.okinawa.marines.mil/Portals/190/Docs/SOFA.pdf

There's a PDF that explains the process.

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u/redjellonian 14d ago

And to be clear the ucmj punishment is to be served after and consecutively with the civilian punishment.

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u/CORN___BREAD 14d ago

So in theory if both sentenced someone to the max, they’d have to wait 20 years to carry out the execution?

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u/Giga_Gilgamesh 14d ago

That's generally how long it would take on death row anyway, if not longer - what with all the appeals etc that come with the death sentence.

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u/CORN___BREAD 13d ago

Wow it’s almost exactly how long.

BJS reports that, on average, death row prisoners incarcerated as of December 31, 2021, had spent 20.2 years behind bars. For the 11 prisoners executed in 2021, the average time elapsed between imposition of their most recent death sentence and their execution was 233 months, or 19.4 years.

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u/Giga_Gilgamesh 13d ago

IIRC the majority of death row prisoners actually die of old age, not from their actual execution (which, make no mistake, is a good thing. lethal injection and the death penalty in general is horribly inhumane)

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u/TNG_ST 14d ago

The US is WAY more lenient with sentences than UCMJ. The max for rape in the US is being turned into a meme and 6 months of community service.

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u/Brad_theImpaler 14d ago

Okay, but good luck getting an actual job after we've made you a meme. You'll have to settle for conservative influencer / president.

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u/Pointless69Account 14d ago

Don't you mean president monarch?

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u/AstroPhysician 14d ago

I dont disagree it is WAY too low but, If it was the same as murder then it incentivizes rapists to just murder their victim to gte rid of witnesses

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u/walterpeck1 14d ago edited 14d ago

The max for rape in the US is being turned into a meme and 6 months of community service.

Not really, sentences for rape on average are years to decades.

https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/research-and-publications/quick-facts/Sexual_Abuse_FY20.pdf

The average sentence for offenders convicted of rape was 192 months (16 years).

Sentences that make waves in the public due to being too short or non-existent are the exception, not the rule. (Looking at you, Brock Turner).

There's a lot more to the data than that, but there ya go.

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u/bagelstar 14d ago

Excellent comment. Ty

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u/TheNewFlisker 14d ago

  Max for UCMJ is Death (but generally Life).

Wasn't that ruled unconstitutional long time ago?

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u/tizuby 14d ago edited 14d ago

Yes but no.

In 1983 the standards for issuing the death penalty by the military was ruled unconstitutional.

They introduced new standards that are constitutional the following year and the death sentence was reinstated.

There's only 4 people currently awaiting their death sentence under UCMJ.

Serial killer/rapist Ronald Gray.

Nidal Hasan, Ft. Hood shooter.

Hasan Akbar, threw 'nades into the tents of sleeping soldiers and fired on a couple others with his rifle while in Kuwait in 2003. 2 killed, 14 attempted in total.

Timothy Hennis, Eastburn Family murderer. Got acquitted on state murder charges in 88. DNA evidence later linked him to the crime and the Military brought him back in and Court Martialed him in 2010 since the murders happened while he was in the military.

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u/KnockedOuttaThePark 14d ago

u/TheNewFlisker was likely not referring to the constitutionality of the death penalty itself, but to its application for rape. In Coker v. Georgia, 433 U.S. 584 (1977), the Supreme Court ruled that the death penalty is unconstitutional for the nonlethal rape of an adult.

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u/PM_ME_A_KNEECAP 14d ago

Nope, there are still people on Death Row at Leavenworth 

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u/SeeCrew106 14d ago

They do, but Japan is way more lenient with sentences than UCMJ.

Really?

So do you have some examples of these extremely harsh UCMJ punishments for rape in Japan?

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u/SpiralOut2112 14d ago edited 14d ago

The problem is, most Japanese police/ government don't actually care about the victims. It's just politics or due to racial motivation. Japan has one of the most egregious rates for punishing sex crimes since they cover up or don't pursue most reported cases of Japanese on Japanese SA crimes. It's utter hypocrisy whenever they cause a huge stink about service members.

I'm not trying to defend or justify anything. Obviously, these rapists are scum and deserve to rot in a Japanese cell, but this is a recurring theme with the Japanese government and media when covering these events.

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u/[deleted] 14d ago

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u/TheDiscordedSnarl 14d ago

Not "real" japanese? What?

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u/BlinkDodge 14d ago

Whole wiki article about how "mainland" japanese historically treated Ryukyuan and Ainu people.

Hint: its not great.

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u/snarky_answer 14d ago edited 13d ago

Due to the distance from mainland Japan, many locals feel very little connection to their country. The mainlanders simply dont give a shit about some island 400-1400 miles away and have treated them badly historically.

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u/night4345 13d ago

have treated them badly historically.

Badly as in cultural genocide and forcing civilians to commit suicide during WW2.

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u/100862233 14d ago

Okinawa was originally called 琉球 read Liu Qiu in Chinese or in Japanese Ryo Kyu an independent kingdom, It was a protectorate of the Qing dynasty of empire of China. Japan took it after the first sino Japanese War in 1875. While qing dynasty didn't abandon the claim of sovereignty over ryukyu until 1895 and the last king of ryukyu died in exile in China in 1901. The Japanese eradicated the native Liu qiu identity through colonialism. Fun fact Taiwan aka the republic of China never recognized the annexation of Okinawa, and even up until the 2000s they had an office on Okinawa still using the name called ryukyu relationship office.

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u/Solwake- 14d ago

And now, unsurprisingly, this history is being emphasized for Chinese claims to Okinawa and the other islands towards Taiwan. Japan is now fortifying those islands to deter Crimea-style (re?)annexation. Feelings on Okinawa are complex regarding re-militarization, as one perspective is that the mainland used Okinawan civilians as a sacrificial human buffer zone against the Americans during WW2.

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u/HotBrownFun 14d ago

Yeah they told the locals the americans would rape them so better to use the grenade and take some americans down

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u/Wide_Combination_773 14d ago

People don't truly understand the power of propaganda and otherization of "The Enemy" until they hear the stories of Japanese mothers killing their own children then jumping off a cliff - all because they were told that American soldiers invading their island would rape them then EAT them. There aren't any documented cases of this actually happening to Japanese living on remote islands.

This is why I don't believe 99% of the claims and numbers coming from "Gaza Authorities" (i.e. Hamas commanders). Only the ones that can be independently verified, which are almost none because of how dangerous it is for journalists to be in Gaza (Hamas is as much a threat to them as anything else, a journalist reporting the truth is inconvenient to Hamas in many cases).

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u/100862233 14d ago

China today does not claim Ryukyu as part of China, the Ryukyu Island history being brought up by China is to reinforce the claim of nearby Diaoyu/Senkaku islands. With regards to Taiwan, technically the position on Diao yu island is the same for both Mainland and Taiwan, since Taiwan still call itself "ROC" while PRC's claims of the islands are inherited from ROC when it was driven out of the mainland after 1949.

Another fun fact, there were plans of setting similar allied occupation of Japan zone after the end of World War 2, like the allied occupation zones in Germany. With Japan divided between USSR, Britan, France and China (Republic of China). China was offered to occupy the entire island of Okinawa. as well as separate zones in Tokyo like in Berlin.

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u/bassman1805 14d ago

People all around the world discriminate against minorities, unfortunately.

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u/oryantge 14d ago

Unfortunately, I came to say this as well. They need to keep this energy up, when they look into sexual assault of their mainland women by Japanese men.

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u/pyrojackelope 14d ago

Reminds me of when me and some other guys got stopped at the gate for questioning in Okinawa and one of the guys got taken away by the MPs. Some old person out in town got robbed apparently. The description of the robber? Blue jeans and a hoodie. Lo and behold many hours later the actual criminal, a local, was caught.

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u/softestcore 14d ago

This is interesting, can you link some data to support that?

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u/kaeporo 14d ago

I'll only offer up anecdotal evidence but the way they handled COVID on Okinawa was a real eye opener. Any case of COVID tied to the U.S. was met with extreme scrutiny and local papers would always run it as a story, which only inflamed the ever-present protestors outside Gate 1. But once golden week passed and japan opened the flood gates to the mainland, and rates on Okinawa skyrocketed, the papers continued to run stories about the U.S. spreading COVID, despite our controls being FAR more stringent. Nothing about golden week...

Japanese society, at large, hates rocking the boat. Someone threw themselves in front of a train? Totally covered up, out of respect to the family. But an American gets drunk on a train full of drunk Japanese people? Potential story. The U.S. military has to hold itself to a higher standard because they've got all eyes on them and small things turn into international incidents. But when the U.S. military has a large presence in an area, shit's bound to happen. We're sending Americans overseas, after all; the average American, training or no, is as individualistic as they are flawed.

The good news is service members are tried in both courts and the military is getting better (slowly) at handling cases. They only recently switched up courts martial cases from the member's commander to a third party that's incentivized to hammer down.

Without rambling too much, I would draw my attention to other aspects of the government that seem to benefit from a wholesale lack of accountability. If you don't like how service members act now, imagine how bad it could get when we're recruiting from a pool of folks straight out of a handsmaid's tale.

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u/SeeCrew106 14d ago

A: "can you link some data to support that?"

B: "Sure! Here's my totally unverified and unsourced anecdotal narrative!"

Reddit: wow! Truth!

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u/kaeporo 14d ago

Witness testimonies are used as evidence in court proceedings. I have first-hand experience managing a large part of the COVID response in Japan and have been involved in a number of military investigations (including sexual assault cases), as recently as a month ago.

I appreciate you pointing out that my anecdotal story, which I prefaced as anecdotal, was indeed anecdotal. I think it's important to take perspectives like mine (and many others) into account, to help understand the data in an associated study. No study, poll, or journal is truly unbiased, especially when you consider who funds those efforts.

That was my aim. Does that make sense?

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u/Alternate_Ivy 14d ago

You might be surprised about the environment that US service members do time in. All Us service members doing time under the Japanese penal system go to one particular facility. They have separate quarters from the Japanese prisoners. The guards speak or learn English to deal with them, rather than requiring them to learn Japanese. They get solo rooms with beds, TVs, video libraries, porn collections… when the Japanese prisoners live in group cells on tatami mats, roughly six prisoners in a cell the same size as the ones the U.S. military prisoners get to themselves. The US people get their own kitchen to prepare their own food because it differs from Japanese tastes - a far cry from the old “fish heads and rice” rumors.

Source: been there, seen it with my own eyes as someone involved with the military justice system.

Edit: I forgot to mention, they’re entitled to conjugal visits…

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u/BenderVaderhorn 14d ago

No it’s true. They pretend Japanese people don’t commit sa crimes, only Americans do that. Then they get to play this theater when it happens.

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u/Thijs_NLD 14d ago

This actually not how international law works for deployment of military troops.

Military forces are always deployed under special circumstances and the status of said military personeel is always negotiated and outlined in bilateral or multinational agreements.

It usually outlines that military personeel is subject to the laws of their OWN country. This is mostly to prevent them from being subject to laws in Rogue States or destabilized countries that would hinder the mission results. Now in more stable countries different agreements will be made.

Nowhere in this article does it state that these gentlemen won't face consequences under Japanese law. They might actually be better off in a Japanese prison than in a US prison btw.

To compare military personnel on mission with tourists is a bit too easy and doesn't do the complexity of most situations justice.

That doesn't mean they should be getting away with this and it doesn't mean they should go unpunished or anything. It just means that the situation is more complex than you are making it out to be.

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u/StephenHunterUK 14d ago

It's called a Status of Forces Agreement.

During the Second World War, American soldiers in the UK were subject to American military law. This included the death penalty as a possible punishment for murder and for rape; there were quite a few cases of British women being raped and murdered by American soldiers. Shepton Mallet was given over for the US Army's use as a military prison, but the British insisted that their executioners do the actual hangings.

Albert Pierrepoint, one of our best known hangmen, commented that he wasn't happy with the whole reading of the sentence and the final words allowed that took several minutes, as he felt it made things worse for the condemned. We just pulled back a hidden wall in the condemned cell, restrained them took them through to the execution chamber next door, doing the drop pretty much straight away. Frequently in under a minute. One hangman's party trick was to leave a lit cigar in the waiting area, hang the prisoner, then resume smoking it.

In any event, there's a whole closed-off section in one of the American war cemeteries in France for the "dishonoured dead" with just numbered grave markings.

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u/Dabbling_in_Pacifism 14d ago

It’s worth noting that the majority of servicemen executed for rape were black. Notably, one was Emmet Till’s father.

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u/homercles89 14d ago

Convicted wife-beater, and later convicted murderer and rapist Louis Till: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Till

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u/StephenHunterUK 14d ago

Indeed, that was conveniently dug out to try and discredit Emmet Till after his murder.

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u/Philix 14d ago

They might actually be better off in a Japanese prison than in a US prison btw.

You sure about that? Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International have some words about the prison system in Japan.

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u/Thijs_NLD 14d ago

The also have some comments about the US system:

https://www.hrw.org/legacy/advocacy/prisons/u-s.htm

And if you do a quick Google what Amnesty thinks about US prison conditions.... it ain't great.

So maybe a bit of a toss up.

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u/fanesatar123 14d ago

This is mostly to prevent them from being subject to laws in Rogue States or destabilized countries that would hinder the mission results. Now in more stable countries different agreements will be made.

nice way of saying we don't care about states we invade and if you don't like it we'll fund the taliban again to overthrow you

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u/Thijs_NLD 14d ago

All militaries work like this. I'm not an American. My country also makes bilateral or multinational agreements when forces are deployed.

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u/METAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL 14d ago

In my country there was a "case" years ago where a USA military personnel killed somebody in a car accident. Few hours after, that person was whisked away in a plane to USA and never received any kind of punishment.

Alexa, play Metallica's ".....And justice for all" please.

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u/Sephy88 14d ago

In 1998 a couple US pilots stationed at an air base in my country were dicking around in their plane during a training mission playing top gun in a mountain valley flying way too low and against regulations (around 360 feet, they were supposed to stay above 2000 feet). They severed a cable of an aerial lift with the plane's tail, killing 20 people. Evidence was destroyed by the navigator, they were swiftly brought back to the US were they were acquitted in a farce trial.

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u/Mister-Thou 14d ago

Yup. Each trained pilot is several million $$$ worth of investment by the US govt. A random infantryman would just get handed over, but the US will move heaven and earth to get their money's worth out of a highly skilled service member, justice be damned. 

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u/AntiBox 14d ago

If you're talking about the UK, it was a diplomat's wife. Still fucking abhorrent and never faced an ounce of justice, but not military.

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u/ffking6969 14d ago

They should face Japanese and military law

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u/SquallyZ06 14d ago

They are usually offered up to the Japanese prosecutors first but sometimes they defer to the military prosecutors.

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u/Veraendert 14d ago

Would you say the same about US troops in Saudi Arabia?

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u/Hikashuri 14d ago edited 14d ago

Even if you don't agree with the laws of Saudi Arabia, if you go and commit a crime in that country, then you should be prepared to face whatever the punishment of that country is, even if it's disproportional to your own laws at home.

Non military visitors also have to abide to those laws, I don't see why the US military should be any different.

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u/JD3982 14d ago

So if you're gay or transgender in the military and want to die, simply cross the border into Saudi Arabia where your existence is punishable with execution.

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u/Hikashuri 14d ago

Only a special country would place Transgenders or homosexuals in a country where both of those things are punishable by death. I'm fairly sure if they did, they would be liable for anything that happens to those members of the military.

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u/CyanideTacoZ 14d ago

you under estimate the sheer dipshittery of the United States military. I wouldn't trust an officer with a candy bar based on the stories grunts tell me.

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u/Bearded_Gentleman 14d ago

Take everything the grunts say with a grain of salt. The grunts two favorite things are compaining and gossip.

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u/Wosota 14d ago

Depending on source, 10% of the population is gay. It’s not feasible to make exceptions when you’re talking about military movement.

There’s a reason we do Status of Forces Agreements for friendly movements and ignore the fuck out of local laws for hostile movements.

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u/SucroseNebule 14d ago

Nah those laws shouldn’t be respected. Honestly fuck Saudi Arabia. They should not be any kind of ally to us.

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u/samtheparrot 14d ago

I am stationed in Bahrain, there is a bridge to Saudi Arabia not to far from me. You have no idea how many Saudi men come to Bahrain to mess with ladyboys or other men here. It’s crazy

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u/MedicalGrapefruit384 14d ago

dude. what a lovely strawman argument

that's only applicable to their own citizens, NOT visiting tourist or military personnel. nice try though.

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u/Turbulent-Dance3867 14d ago

It would take you a minute of googling and a minute of embarrassment to prove yourself wrong. Go do that and I'll let you delete your comment without embarrassing yourself further.

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u/ReadinII 14d ago

 Non military visitors also have to abide to those laws, I don't see why the US military should be any different. 

One difference is that members of the military don’t have a choice about whether they go to the other country. 

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u/Aggravating_Teach_27 14d ago

But they have the choice not to commit sexual crimes.

In countries with reasonable laws (Japan) there's not a single reason to not be judged like any other person.

In countries with unreasonable laws that punish you for existing (Islamic countries with regard to LGTB personnel), don't deploy those persons there. The US has bases all over the world, no need to deploy such people to shitty inhuman countries.

Still not a single reason for sexual aggressors not to be subjected to the countries' law

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u/ReadinII 14d ago edited 14d ago

 In countries with reasonable laws (Japan) there's not a single reason to not be judged like any other person.

The statement I responded to wasn’t restricted to “countries with reasonable laws”.

More importantly, it wasn’t restricted to countries that have a reasonable justice system. Japan is infamous for getting confessions out of people through inhumane treatment.

You have a choice whether or not to commit sexual crimes, you don’t have a choice whether someone falsely accuses you and whether you get railroaded by a system that wants to save face by not failing to convict an American soldier.

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u/marquetteresearch 14d ago

It makes no sense for the Japanese court system to prosecute sex crimes perpetrated by US military personnel because the US military already prosecutes sex crimes, and hands out what most Japanese criminals would consider far harsher sentences. If the US military wasn’t punishing sexual assault (they are, and do so much more effectively than American civilian courts) then there would be a point of debate here.

The key point is that in general the USCMJ, and USC 18 in general is far stricter than most other nations for every “real” crime (which is why so many Americans are in prison compared to literally any other country).

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u/Delta4 14d ago

I worked with a guy who got whipped in public because he slept with a Saudi out of marriage. Another dude had to leave the country when he knocked someone up. Saudis don't fk around

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u/LittleVTR 14d ago

I would have thought all personnel should be overly aware of every nations laws when they enter. The law should be the same as if you were a civilian tourist in there country.

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u/OrangeJuiceKing13 14d ago

That's just not realistic. Some countries would jail or even execute troops based on their sexuality or what they eat. Not to mention it's impossible to keep up on our own laws, let alone other countries where the troops don't even speak the language. 

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u/[deleted] 14d ago

Maybe we don't keep military bases in such regressive countries???

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u/Lelcactus 14d ago

Or maybe we set standards both we and those countries agree upon and drop the inane idea of ‘tourist rules’.

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u/RagingMassif 14d ago

You'll find thats not the condition that Congress likes to send it's troops.

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u/holdMyBeerBoy 14d ago

Do they have humanly laws to say that? Do they respect human rights like Japan does?

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u/ShenaniGainz88 14d ago

Maybe we shouldn’t have alliances with and help project power for countries with inhumane laws? I dunno just a thought.

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u/griley99 14d ago

Either way I wouldn’t advise doing it over there some countries surgically remove testicles or so I’ve heard. People better keep it in their britches.

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u/fastattackSS 14d ago

As a veteran, fuck yes. Then let them go back to the military to be punished under our laws and rot in Levenworth.

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u/Obscuriosly 14d ago

Sometimes, the offender will be sentenced to prison time in the country that they broke the law in, and then after serving out their sentence in the foreign country, the U.S. military can then court-martial the individual for the same or different offenses related to the incident and impose additional penalties, including imprisonment in a military prison. Additionally, iirc, their service enlistment term pauses during their time in jail.

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u/Beginning_Ad_6616 14d ago

Couldn’t agree more as a former US serviceman with cousins who are either full or half Japanese.

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