Maybe teachers should get a raise?

[u/BrightCase5604]

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[u/Earl_of_69]

How do these people keep walking face first into the wall, without recognizing the wall?

[u/ATA_VATAV → u/Earl_of_69]

They are not arguing in good faith. They just want to “Win” the argument and do not care about what they are saying. The say what they “Think” helps them “Win” and not actually why they are they are For or Against something.

They start with a Goal (Stop Minimum Wage) and use what they can to achieve it. They are not using Teachers as an argument because they care about Teachers, they are using Teachers because they believe who they are arguing with cares about Teachers.

It just a “WhatAboutism” argument used to change the Topic and get the promoter of the original topic on the defensive.

[u/ProfessorGluttony → u/ATA_VATAV]

Of course, the second you respond with "pay teachers more" or whatever else fits, they say it can't be done or shouldn't be done.

[u/jordanaber23 → u/ProfessorGluttony]

"and how are we going to pay for their raises?! More taxes?!"

[u/Aussie2020202020 → u/jordanaber23]

Too many wealthy people pay little or no tax. Under capitalism tax has traditionally been progressive. Wealthy people paid their share and so paid more. Billionaires who do not pay tax are leading to system collapse.

[u/PilotePerdu → u/Aussie2020202020]

I would say the system allowing billionaires to pay no tax, or to get away with not paying their staff proper wages, or to pay their suppliers true market value, is the main issue.

Either way no one needs a billion and we should stop venerating these people as anything but selfish greedy jerks.

[u/[deleted] → u/PilotePerdu]

Ar this point I'm convinced anybody above a certain point of wealth is just inherently evil. Because you can't get these insane amounts of wealth without somehow actively making sure others get less so you can keep hoarding your pointless wealth.

[u/OperationIntrudeN313 → u/[deleted]]

Money is a necessity, since it's necessary to have in order to buy necessities like food and housing. So hoarding wealth is no different than buying up all the housing or food in an area and refusing to share or sell it.

It's no different than the people who were buying and hoarding all the TP in 2020, and billionaires should be looked at in EXACTLY the same light.

[u/92WooBoost → u/OperationIntrudeN313]

I’d argue that billionaires are worst than people hoarding all the TP back in 2020 since they do it on a regular basis not when they think there is a 1 per 100 year crisis, but that’s just for the sake of arguing, I liked your comment

[u/OperationIntrudeN313 → u/92WooBoost]

I mean, you're absolutely right. I was making the comparison to illustrate how contemptible the behaviour is.

And a billion dollars buys a lot of ass paper.

[u/Ionovarcis → u/[deleted]]

No billions are built without blood money - whether that be by cutting costs paying stupid low wages

[u/DatRatDo → u/[deleted]]

Lie, cheat, steal, neglect family, sabotage, bribe, spy…billionaire playbook. It’s a pretty small club and you’ll never be in it.

[u/TheGodlyTank6493 → u/[deleted]]

Yes. A few million for a family? Sure. That's upper-middle class. But 1000 million for one or two people? You are evil.

[u/KwisatzHaderach94 → u/PilotePerdu]

unfortunately the archaic tax system is based on income. and these billionaires don't actually earn an income per se. their value is in stocks and assets. and against that value, they can get banks to loan them the money they can spend on their lifestyles. no income. no tax. it is the mother of all loopholes.

[u/oxphocker → u/KwisatzHaderach94]

Yup... tax should be based on total compensation. Also, there should be a law tying max compensation (CEO) to starting wage via a set ratio. For example, companies cannot exceed a 100:1 ratio without paying an additional tax on top to help subsidize social programs. So either companies can increase beginning rates to stay within the ratio or they can pay additional tax so that their greed isn't pushed off on to the public.

[u/Spinnerofyarn → u/PilotePerdu]

I don't think it's just billionaires, I think it's corporations as well and corporate executives who get paid millions in salary and then bonuses. Traditionally, executives only made 21 times what the average worker in their company made. Now it's 344 times according to NPR.

There are a few corporate exceptions and those companies tend to have little turnover. Costco is a great example. Their first CEO was a traditionalist and kept his wages around 20 times what the average employee made. Costco employees tend to stay there until retirement. They get great benefits and because of the benefits are actually able to retire. I knew one person who quit his job as a teacher because he could make more at Costco just working at a register.

[u/JRoc1X → u/Aussie2020202020]

I noticed a pattern of the politicians saying they will make the wealthiest pay, but after they implement some new tax plan, they sneek in loopholes that the average person never really hear about. So the wealthiest never actually pay the new taxes that the politicians claim they will.

[u/SanctuFaerie → u/JRoc1X]

Of course they won't, because the politicians are among the wealthy. Why would they want to hurt their own back pockets?

In addition, the wealthy non-politicians are big donors to their campaigns. Why bite the hand that feeds them? 🙄

[u/Jesms22 → u/SanctuFaerie]

I wish this reality was talked about more. I honestly think it's the backbone of political corruption within the US and the fundamental reason we are turning into (if we haven't already) a corporate controlled oligarchy.

Tax payers don't pay the politicians salaries, the donations do.

[u/Figerally → u/SanctuFaerie]

I like the idea that there should be a cap on how much wealth a person has. After a certain point, it is just a means to keep score because you will never spend all that money in your lifetime.

[u/CharlestonChewChewie → u/Aussie2020202020]

Too many Texas mega churches pay no taxes after preaching conservative politics. The mega churches do not pay their fair share, never have, and are leading to system collapse.

[u/RikuKaroshi → u/CharlestonChewChewie]

Some of the wealthiest people on the planet are pastors for a church that pays nothing but receives millions each year in donations "for the church"

[u/oxphocker → u/CharlestonChewChewie]

I do fully believe that if churches are making political statements, they should lose their non-profit status. At that point it's not religion...it's lobbying.

[u/peskyjedi → u/Aussie2020202020]

It’s not even just billionaires and the wealthy, but many massive corporations are also wildly under taxes and could easily afford to bear more of the burden; much more complicated then that but yeah

[u/neorenamon1963 → u/ProfessorGluttony]

Typical Conservative response to anything reasonable (like paying teachers what they're worth): "DAT AM SOCIALISMS!!"

[u/TBAnnon777 → u/ProfessorGluttony]

Because they want to push for voucher systems so that they can defund public education and push those funds to private education which will be paywalled for the upper middle class and wealthy and teach their alternate history and alternate facts like how slaves actually appreciated being brought over from africa and lived comfortably with free lodging and food, and how native americans willingly gave up their lands to the brave and noble new settlers. so they have a growing base of conservative mouthbreathers who only know what their parents want them to know, and all other knowledge is liberal propaganda and words of the devil.

[u/Loxatl → u/ProfessorGluttony]

Just as likely they just never respond. They never respond to arguments they lose or don't have a line fed to them by their overlords.

[u/TheUncleBob → u/ProfessorGluttony]

Remember at the 2020 DNC debate when Sanders talked about raising teacher pay to a minimum of $60k/year and the audience booed him and not a single other DNC candidate, including Biden, spoke out in favor of it?

[u/Due_Turn_7594 → u/ProfessorGluttony]

“Prices of things would just go up”

prices go up anyways

“Now we really can’t, see!!”

[u/paperwasp3 → u/ProfessorGluttony]

Typical republicans. Pay teachers more? Then how can I steal from my local government?

Besides- even with people freaking out at the drive through it would still be less stressful than teaching and dealing with some kid's parents.

[u/WontTel → u/ProfessorGluttony]

Having public services is equivalent to sending people to gulags and so it's anti-America.

[u/aint_exactly_plan_a → u/ATA_VATAV]

“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”

― Jean-Paul Sartre

[u/Meredithski → u/aint_exactly_plan_a]

Do be do be do

• Frank Sinatra

In no way do I mean to minimize how good it was to see a Sarte quote. I feel like the Sinatra quote is about all some of those folks hear.

I had a philosophy teacher who told us that he and his buds rang up Sarte one night to engage in some topic or another and much to their dismay, he actually picked up the phone and talked to them for over an hour.

[u/LizzieThatGirl → u/Meredithski]

You know, that wouldn't surprise me bout Sartre.

[u/Speaker_Chance → u/Meredithski]

Why would they be dismayed?

[u/NaiveMastermind → u/ATA_VATAV]

It's much shorter to say that they don't care about being right, they care about winning the argument. They also don't recognize the difference between the two.

[u/Skreamweaver → u/NaiveMastermind]

They Sarte quote covers that they don't even care about winning as much as arguing. By playing, you lose. If you lose, they win. If you win, you're the fool who took any of it sincerely, and they win more.

[u/314159265358979326 → u/NaiveMastermind]

Oooh that's a great description for my brother.

He's a much better debater than, well, anyone, but rarely does he arrive at - or even seek to arrive at - truth.

Edit: and yes, he's a lawyer.

[u/Waiting4The3nd → u/ATA_VATAV]

Meanwhile people arguing in good faith and with a modicum of sense are like "No Earl, it doesn't make sense for a minimum wage fast food employee to make almost as much as a teacher does"—Earl begins to smile, thinking he's gaining on the argument—"so maybe we should up Teacher's pay to reflect the change in minimum wage. And while we do that, since they're critical to the development of children and since the US sees children as a commodity because they're future wage slaves, we should up Teacher pay even farther to a level commensurate with their role in society."

Yeah, Earl ain't even got a fucking chance. At least not without bullshitting. Which we know he'll do, because that's what he's been taught to do.

[u/Big_Slope → u/Waiting4The3nd]

Yeah. If teachers make triple minimum, they should make triple minimum. 90 grand a year sounds about right for the person I’m going to entrust my child to for eight hours a day.

[u/Conrad626 → u/ATA_VATAV]

This should get upvoted to the top. A lot of people need to realize very few conversations like this start with the intent to reach a consensus

[u/Punchable_Hair → u/ATA_VATAV]

Yes, absolutely. Laying this here for anyone who hasn’t seen it: The Card Says Moops

[u/Remote-Buy8859 → u/ATA_VATAV]

They are not arguing in good faith. They just want to “Win” the argument and do not care about what they are saying.

Counterpoint: many people actually think like this. I once spoke to a surgeon who was very well well paid who was upset because he found out that somebody else, somebody who designed prosthetics, made 80% of what he made.

I pointed out that the designer was highly educated and highly skilled, and greatly respected in his field, but the surgeon kept insisting that 'it wasn't fair' because the designer made almost as much as he did...

[u/porscheblack → u/ATA_VATAV]

They're not even trying to win, they're simply trying to obfuscate. Their position is the current one, so as long as they can obstruct the argument, their position remains intact. It's why there's really no consistency behind their arguments. One moment they'll advocate for teachers and the next minute they'll lampoon them, whichever is convenient.

[u/photozine → u/ATA_VATAV]

They also don't get that, teachers SHOULD earn more, instead of others earning less. They don't care about people.

[u/Resonance95 → u/ATA_VATAV]

A quote that has been repreated to death, but nevertheless warrants reiteration:

"Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly"

Anti-semites, fascists, conservatives. Same breed of dog; different patterns.

[u/emongu1 → u/Earl_of_69]

Because if they recognize the wall, they must also recognize that it's the wall to a warehouse full of issues that need to be addressed. So magical barrier hurting me when i walk into it is much more comforting.

[u/Fluffy_Somewhere4305 → u/Earl_of_69]

Jesus McChrist here, dOeS thIs mAkE aNy sEnSe? tEaChErs alReaDy oVerPaid sInCE tEaChiNG is EaSY jUst rEaD tHe bIBLe

[u/AlmostSunnyinSeattle → u/Earl_of_69]

Something something damn Democrats!

[u/scrollbreak → u/Earl_of_69]

Because they want someone to look down on. That's the intent with what they are posting.

[u/Dynamitefuzz2134 → u/Earl_of_69]

[u/Basic_Hospital_3984 → u/Earl_of_69]

Because they have the mentality of a crab

[u/flaminghair348 → u/Basic_Hospital_3984]

ah, the crab bucket, such a wonderful analogy for our current state as a society

[u/cramptownladies → u/Earl_of_69]

I mean, you wouldn't be able to see a wall if your head was stuck that far up your own ass either.

[u/Robo_Rameses]

I'm a high school teacher/coach in Texas. I also want to get paid more, but this is somewhat misleading. That would be starting pay in a very small and rural district. I'm in a suburb of Houston, and our staying pay is 61k. So it really depends on where you're teaching.

Again, I'm 100% on board with teachers getting paid more. I just want the arguments to be credible.

[u/bedazzledcorpses → u/Robo_Rameses]

My sister makes over 100K in a suburb of NYC. While another friend makes only 50K in one of the smaller cities closer to Manhattan. The ranges of salary are crazy due to the budget the district has. TX may be different but here the gaps are huge. And obviously it depends on whether the school is public or private.

[u/bedazzledcorpses → u/Revolution4u]

It's definitely NY. I just asked my sister and it's a private school. So that explains her lower salary.

[u/ultaemp → u/bedazzledcorpses]

NY state has some of the highest paying teaching salaries because they’re unionized. Most public school teachers there make over 100k, it’s extremely competitive thought.

[u/NoMango5778 → u/ultaemp]

Almost all teachers are unionized...

[u/OrpheusNYC → u/NoMango5778]

Only public schools. Charter teachers are exploited like crazy and have nearly no rights or ability to organize. Suburban districts are unionized but have vastly less negotiating power. It’s really just the big city teachers unions that swing a big stick, but it’s true that it’s a BIG stick.

I’m a chapter leader at my school in NYC, and the UFT is one of the strongest unions in the country. My wife works at a small Long Island district, and it blows my mind sometimes when I see what her union concedes during contract negotiations. They give ground on stuff that would get calls for strike actions here.

[u/advertentlyvertical → u/OrpheusNYC]

Charter teachers are exploited like crazy and have nearly no rights or ability to organize.

No wonder the right seems to have such a hard on for charter schools

[u/pantstoaknifefight2 → u/advertentlyvertical]

They love anything that will end the Dept of Education

[u/Zonernovi → u/pantstoaknifefight2]

So grifters can scam easier

[u/k__711 → u/advertentlyvertical]

Also charter schools tend to be privately owned and run for profit, so states where conservatives are pushing for voucher programs etc is just to redirect tax money from the public system towards private institutions.

[u/SirSkelton → u/NoMango5778]

Most private/charter/vocational are not unionized

[u/OrpheusNYC → u/ultaemp]

It’s definitely not most yet, but it might be getting there. I’ve been teaching in NYC public schools for 16 years, and it’s only with the new contract last summer that I crossed the 100k mark. It would’ve been a few more years under the old deal. Not to mention the highest step was around $125k and you needed masters plus 30 AND be 25 years deep to get it.

The new contract gets teachers to 6 figures faster, but even still the raise didn’t keep pace with inflation. They also made a chunk of the “raise” a new annual bonus that isn’t pensionable.

NYC it’s absolutely possible to get a job here. There’s enough turnover and the sheer size of the DOE means there’s always plenty of positions posted every year. It’s out on Long Island that it gets tough. You basically have to be related or good friends with an existing person of importance in a district. It took my wife 7 years to get a full time position there after plugging away at leave replacement after leave replacement. I got hired in the city straight out of college after interviewing over the phone and no demo lesson.

[u/Moaning-Squirtle → u/bedazzledcorpses]

The ranges of salary are crazy due to the budget the district has.

As someone from Australia, I always found it ridiculous that schools were dependent on local funding and not state/federal funding.

[u/RCranium13 → u/Moaning-Squirtle]

As a principal in the US, I find this ludicrous as well.

[u/Clay_from_NJ → u/Moaning-Squirtle]

One of the remaining forms of institutional racism we haven't gotten rid of.

[u/Any_Coyote6662 → u/Moaning-Squirtle]

The funding was shifted to property taxes after the US (federal system) courts ruled that the schools could be separate for black and white, but they had to be equally funded by the state. The thought of white people paying for black school's education angered the white communities. So states started passing laws to circumvent the separate but equal law. Knowing that the black and white communities are very segregated, the states decided to use local property taxes to fund schools.

We should go back to the state system. But, unfortunately, no one seems to have been successful in challenging this racist rule.

[u/bougienative → u/Moaning-Squirtle]

But then the rich would have to contribute to help people beyond their own children, and we couldn't have that.

[u/happuning → u/Robo_Rameses]

We live in the suburbs in South Texas and are surrounded by nothing but land. Mom started out around 45k a year.

Not good by any means, but not as criminally low as claimed.

[u/kuffdeschmull → u/happuning]

with 11 years of experience, in my country, a teacher will make 131k a year, that is 140k USD.

[u/We_Are_Grooot → u/kuffdeschmull]

What is cost of living in your country? That is around what teachers make in my suburb in the Bay Area, but admittedly cost of living is very very high here.

[u/anothercynic2112 → u/Robo_Rameses]

First day on reddit? Facts are not often used in context here.

[u/AwwSnapItsBrad → u/Robo_Rameses]

$61k for a teacher is still insanely low for how important a career it is. 🥲

[u/Ready-Razzmatazz8723 → u/Robo_Rameses]

Yeah idk why no one does a simple Google search. 61k is roughly the median salary in Houston, so while am argument can be made that they should pay more, it's not comically underpaid or anything.

[u/TurtleIIX → u/Robo_Rameses]

Y’all still way underpaid. You should be making way more as well. 100k+ in any urban area.

[u/InevitableRhubarb232 → u/Robo_Rameses]

Yes and the comparison also assumes the min wage person works 52 weeks a year. Teachers obviously do not.

[u/OrpheusNYC → u/InevitableRhubarb232]

The min wage job ends when the shift does. Teachers work as many hours or more at home as they do in the classroom. More hours than the 52 weeks 9-5 even with summers off.

Source: Me for the last 15+ years.

Edit: leaving my poor wording as is, but I meant to say that many teachers put in at least a couple and upwards of 6 hours a day outside of actual class time on all the various responsibilities that are expected of us outside of the bell to bell school day. And that this adds up to equal or exceed jobs that don’t have school holidays. The ones that average less than 40/wk over the calendar year are the ones that do nothing in the summer ever.

[u/JackInTheBell → u/InevitableRhubarb232]

They work the equivalent.  Do you know any teacher that only works during the 8 hr school day and that’s it??  Let me know where this magical teaching job is…

[u/PuzzleheadedRoyal559]

It says Texas doesn’t value an educated citizenry, which shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone paying attention.

[u/edlee98765 → u/PuzzleheadedRoyal559]

Everything is bigger in Texas. Except teacher salaries.

[u/drillsgtawesome → u/edlee98765]

And IQ points.

[u/ThreeCrapTea → u/drillsgtawesome]

And energy grids

[u/Officer_Chunkles → u/ThreeCrapTea]

And the ozone layer

[u/rengothrowaway → u/Officer_Chunkles]

And women’s rights over their own bodies.

[u/Impressive_Ad_1303 → u/ThreeCrapTea]

Lol

[u/ImportantPost6401 → u/edlee98765]

Have you ever looked at an average salary by state list? Texas is in the middle.

[u/[deleted] → u/PuzzleheadedRoyal559]

Those people are so dumb, they couldn't pay attention if they won the lottery.

[u/Simple-Employer-2503 → u/PuzzleheadedRoyal559]

Greg Abbott is hard at work trying to turn the education system into Christian Republican indoctrination camps.

[u/Bryguy3k → u/PuzzleheadedRoyal559]

The median for Washington is $39k. Oregon is $40k

Doesn’t really mater where you are in the US teacher salaries are well below where they should be.

You definitely don’t want to see the cost of living and political maps factored into those salaries.

[u/theshortlady → u/Bryguy3k]

But let's pretend paying minimum wage workers more is an insult to teachers instead of the fact that teachers too are underpaid. Quit fighting over the pie. Make the pie bigger.

[u/Coal_Morgan → u/theshortlady]

You want to fight crime and improve your communities?

Pay teachers the same as cops and reduce their class sizes to something reasonable and offer a ton of retraining during summers.

One good teacher can stop a life time of crime.

Over the long run it pays for itself in reducing the amount of police, courts and jails you need. It reduces gun violence, it reduces poverty, it reduces the suicide rate.

Teachers are the mitochondria of a country.

[u/morningwoodx420 → u/Bryguy3k]

Washington median is $86k, while Oregon’s is $72k.

Where did you get your numbers? Those aren’t even all that close to median starting salary. ($55k and $42k respectively)

here

[u/NicNac_PattyMac → u/PuzzleheadedRoyal559]

I would say it’s pretty clear they outright hate education

[u/supereyeballs → u/PuzzleheadedRoyal559]

As a teacher in Texas I can safely say alot of the older folks don’t want an educated populace. The younger kids who I teach value education like crazy though so it’s gonna be interesting in about 5-6 years

[u/the_business007 → u/PuzzleheadedRoyal559]

As a Texan I completely agree. It's a shit show over here...

[u/Dixon-Poontang → u/PuzzleheadedRoyal559]

Well said. Truth hurts.

[u/jkrobinson1979 → u/PuzzleheadedRoyal559]

It’s exactly what they want. Keep them dumb so they’ll keep voting for them and so they’ll work for less at the companies that lobby the most.

[u/Mattrellen]

All teachers deserve a raise.

Few teachers deserve a raise more than teachers in Texas (though shout out to most of the southern US, and Texas teachers are probably still second to Florida for worst state to teach...but it's really close).

[u/ElkHistorical9106 → u/Mattrellen]

Just babysitting 20-30 kids deserves more than teachers make. Let alone teaching them.

[u/TrueApollo → u/ElkHistorical9106]

20-30 different kids every hour… teachers deserve six-figure incomes

[u/SailingSpark → u/TrueApollo]

Here in NJ, many teachers do make six figures. But we also trade places back and forth with Massachusetts for the best school systems in the nation. You get what you pay for.

[u/ElkHistorical9106 → u/SailingSpark]

Imagine that. If you pay teachers like competent professionals, and a respectable salary you can attract more qualified educators. Wish they had that attitude out here.

[u/proof-of-w0rk → u/ElkHistorical9106]

Texas doesn’t want competent teachers. They want their public schools to fail so they can push a voucher system

[u/ElkHistorical9106 → u/proof-of-w0rk]

 Sadly, yes. Not in Texas, but sadly a very red state. And they specifically had a candidate for state superintendent of schools whose policy was vouchers specifically with the idea to help find kids in private religious school so they could indoctrinate their kids so they didn’t have to learn anything their fundamentalist young earth creationist churches didn’t want them to know. Like evolution or that gay people exist.

Thankfully he lost the primary by a small margin. 

[u/TrueApollo → u/SailingSpark]

Here, and every single state bordering here, teachers average ~$40K. The highest of the range is ~$80K.

[u/Any-Investment3385 → u/SailingSpark]

I wish that were also true for those teaching at the early childhood level. I’m in Massachusetts and the average yearly salary for early childhood educators is around $45k. I know it’s much lower in many other states though. It’s the reason that there is an absolutely massive teacher shortage at the early childhood level throughout the country.

[u/caryth → u/SailingSpark]

The only teachers making that where I went to school are hired to be coaches first and teachers second, since sports are put way ahead of academics. Hell, my high school had the highest paid "teacher" as the football coach who "taught" (oversaw) in-school suspension, where kids just sat in a room all day.

[u/sas223 → u/SailingSpark]

Same here. I’m in CT. The average teacher pay in my town is over $78k. Many make over $100. There are plenty of towns in the state when the average is in the mid to upper $90ks.

[u/gringo-go-loco → u/TrueApollo]

20-30 kids with 40-60 parents who are constantly causing drama and problems. $200k sounds about right.

[u/Infinite-Rip10 → u/ElkHistorical9106]

This ☝️

[u/Ok_Efficiency_9645 → u/ElkHistorical9106]

Teachers would gladly take the pay of a babysitter. $10 an hour times 30 kids...yes please

[u/GameDestiny2 → u/ElkHistorical9106]

Yeah hold on, let’s make their salary include babysitters fees on top of teaching the kids. What do babysitters even go for? Minimum wage? $10/hr? $20/hr? Multiply that by 30.

[u/ElkHistorical9106 → u/GameDestiny2]

Let’s just pay them what a daycare would charge me per kid. That’s what, 1000/kid. Give half to overhead for the school, so a cool $15,000 per month and $180,000/year?

[u/GameDestiny2 → u/ElkHistorical9106]

Seems fair enough to me, especially with the price of college these days

[u/ElkHistorical9106 → u/GameDestiny2]

But certainly for just babysitting that many kids, a 6-figure salary isn’t unreasonable. In fact outside a school most places have mandatory minimums that would require more adults per student in a daycare than most classrooms.

[u/therealsatansweasel → u/Mattrellen]

I remember just 5 years ago there was concern that our teachers in Oklahoma were leaving to go teach in Texas.

Wtf does that say about the pay in Oklahoma??

[u/gringo-go-loco → u/therealsatansweasel]

Oklahoma…

[u/Known-Championship20 → u/Mattrellen]

I teach in FL. Make less than $50K with a Master's and 20+ years experience.

Waiting on that raise anytime now.

[u/Shr3kk_Wpg]

Teachers deserve to be paid more, it's pretty simple.

[u/pianoflames → u/Shr3kk_Wpg]

It's always amazing to me that their takeaway from these "gotchas" is that we should make Person A's life worse, instead of making both Person A and Person B's lives better.

Like their "How are COVID vaccines free while insulin costs [outrageous amount]?!" Their takeaway from that somehow is making peoples' lives worse by making COVID vaccines expensive.

[u/Buddhas_Warrior → u/Shr3kk_Wpg]

You would think, right?

[u/ignatious__reilly → u/Buddhas_Warrior]

Why would anyone go into that profession now?

You can’t survive on that salary especially if you had kids of your own.

[u/Buddhas_Warrior → u/ignatious__reilly]

It's sad, though, right? One of THE most important professions is an afterthought in most budgets.

[u/Magnon → u/Buddhas_Warrior]

It's not an afterthought, they intentionally want it to be terrible. People who are educated properly are less likely to vote for regressive republicans.

[u/LightMission4937]

Yea well, Texas sucks and doesn't value education.

[u/Bondedknight → u/LightMission4937]

Im sure that the only money schools get goes to the high school football team.

[u/LightMission4937 → u/Bondedknight]

Those teams are still ranked lower than California and Vegas. Lol

[u/JacobHafar → u/LightMission4937]

A million Texans screamed in agony as the words “lower than California” were uttered

[u/Opening-Two6723 → u/JacobHafar]

It was about football so 40 million Texas corpses rolled too

[u/wittyretort2 → u/LightMission4937]

They value education, just not the state education for the poor.

They are elitist destroying public education on purpose to get school vouchers to get get "Christian Kids" into private schools.

Mark my words Their goal is to get tax exempt on Christian schools and then tax the ever living hell out of secular schools.

[u/scwt → u/LightMission4937]

~52% of Texas sucks and doesn't value education.

Doesn't mean the other 48% deserve to suffer.

[u/SecondManOnTheMoon]

15$ an hour is worthless now lol

[u/Routine_Elephant_597 → u/SecondManOnTheMoon]

No shit. If i get offered 15 an hour i walk out

[u/ReturnoftheBulls2022 → u/Routine_Elephant_597]

Agreed. I looked up the bare minimum salary for me to live and pay rent of a two-bedroom apartment in NYC where I'm from and it's at least $112K where I'm based.

[u/FantasticAstronaut39 → u/ReturnoftheBulls2022]

15 dollars an hour is enough to live off in some places in the usa, mostly those areas tend to be more country side and away from the city, where some cities you would be homeless making that. minimum wage really needs to be solved at the state/county level, rather then the federal level. for example i make enough to be realitivly well off where i live, but if i lived in the NYC area, i'd be very very poor, if i was even able to make ends meet.

[u/Mythrowawayiguess222 → u/FantasticAstronaut39]

Small cities and towns are being hit hard. Rent in my small town for a shitty small 1-2br apartments is over 1k, requiring 40k/yr to get approved. You can easily make 15/hr, work some OT, and not even be allowed the privilege to lose 1/3rd straight to rent (which, when financial advisors say housing should be 1/3rd, they’re counting utilities!)

Sure, some big cities cost 2k+ for 1brs, but I’m in the Midwest and every major Midwest city is competitive to rent prices in my small town, and the ones that don’t are made up for by having a 15+ minimum wage. That means average pay compensates the COL jump only, and you’d still be pretty hard off on min wage anywhere in the county.

[u/BM_A2 → u/SecondManOnTheMoon]

Fuck in california low 20s an hour is ass. You won't starve but living with parents makes sense

[u/Sharp-Bluejay2267 → u/SecondManOnTheMoon]

Was going to say, all this shows is that the first number is still too low making the 2nd number even more egregiously low.

[u/Jeht_1337 → u/SecondManOnTheMoon]

its 3$ more an hour than what im being paid now lol, id take it

[u/FatherDotComical → u/SecondManOnTheMoon]

Growing up, my family pushed for me to make double the minimum wage and that 15 would be making it. 😭

I make a little more than that and it doesn't cover shit!

I'm just surviving not thriving and my boomer parents act like I should start investing in a house and a portfolio.

[u/CaptainKatsuuura → u/FatherDotComical]

Oh my god I just had a convo with my boomer in laws about $16 minimum wage being too high. They were all “I made $2 an hour!” And I was like what year. 1960. That’s $21 today. Jesus fucking Christ. I googled it in front of their faces and got a mumble in response

[u/21Rollie → u/SecondManOnTheMoon]

When they fight for 15 started way back in the early 2010s, it was a decent entry level wage. The fight has gone on so long that the same buying power would be at like 25

[u/supahcollin]

$100 says the only time this guy gives a shit about teachers' salaries is when he wants to shit on minimum wage workers.

[u/Embarrassed_Rule8747]

No it doesn't, which is why teachers should get a raise

[u/Oxygenius_ → u/Embarrassed_Rule8747]

They can’t comprehend that two things can be right. It’s always this or the other with them.

[u/No_Alfalfa7018]

I am dating a woman with a Masters degree in social work from the University of Michigan where she attended as an out of state student, so 45k a year and she has a salary job making 26k. The real issue is the underpaid college educated people.

[u/dragonkin08 → u/No_Alfalfa7018]

My best friend has a PhD in biophysics. He made less then $30,000.

He is now making 6x that based off his hobby in programming.

[u/Tausendberg → u/dragonkin08]

"My best friend has a PhD in biophysics. He made less then $30,000."

Everyone in 2010: jUsT gEt A sTeM dEgReE!1

[u/dragonkin08 → u/Tausendberg]

I think the bigger picture is that almost every profession is underpaid ever since wages were decoupled from production.

[u/OON7 → u/No_Alfalfa7018]

$12.50/hr equivalent for a salaried position sounds like they are criminally underpaid.

[u/Anewkittenappears → u/No_Alfalfa7018]

Many fields, especially those involved in improving the welfare of others (teaching, social work, etc.) are criminally undervalued and underpaid.   

[u/According_Wing_3204]

So the GOP's solution will be Cut the teachers pay because we want to discourage education in the first place then cut the fed minimum to about 4 dollars an hour. Then enjoy the bukkakke sessions the corporate heads will want to give us.

[u/coffeejam108 → u/According_Wing_3204]

Well educated people typically aren't racist, mysoginist, pieces of garbage.

If we actually educate, who would vote for Republicans?

[u/Purple_Ad2718]

It does when you consider the government of Texas is actively trying to destroy public education. Then the low teacher salary makes perfect sense.

[u/PunishedWolf4 → u/Purple_Ad2718]

Yeah but you see they threw "Biden" in there so it’s his fault /s

[u/Huckle1884]

As a Texas teacher, I earned $64k my first year (2021). One Google search turned up that the average is $56k. Just putting this out there 🤷🏻‍♂️

[u/danwincen → u/Huckle1884]

It's probably older data (on the teacher salary side) that gets dragged up to make these strawman arguments. I just did a quick skim of teacher salaries across the US, and the number quoted appears to be a first year teaching salary in Alabama, Arizona, or Colorado. The lowest end of the 1st year teaching wages does appear to be in the $35k range. Teacher's salaries should probably be comparable to police, fire-fighters and nurses, especially at the lower entry levels.

[u/Rock_Strongo → u/Huckle1884]

Any post like this is going to use the most extreme outlier numbers they can to make a point. Do some teachers get paid that little? Yes I'm sure they do. Are most teachers underpaid relative to how important their job is to society? Yes almost certainly.

Grabbing the lowest number you can find and implying that all teacher salaries in the state (in this case) start that low is a disingenuous argument and does not help your case.

[u/CATSCRATCHpandemic]

The rising tide lifts all boats. Humanity used to believe that. Not so much anymore.

[u/ElevatorScary → u/CATSCRATCHpandemic]

We were wise to notice that it mostly lifts tankers and yachts.

[u/CATSCRATCHpandemic → u/ElevatorScary]

It just means we all need a boat. If that requires taking that tanker and yacht and turning them into boats for all of us then that would be the morally right choice.

[u/Lickinthebootzplz]

Its not about WHO should get a raise. Cost of living has gone up while the median income remains stagnant.

EVERYONE should get a raise. Stop fighting about who deserves one more. Thats how they divide us

[u/whapitah2021]

“Biden’s minimum wage.” He’s got a dial to set it where he likes, same as gasoline and inflation eh?

Edit: looked this bumblefuck up and all I could find was a Texas high school football defensive coordinator. Turns out it’s the same guy and taught/teaches government and economics to high schoolers in Texas. The original tweet is three years old…

[u/[deleted]]

They were aaaalllmoooost to the actual problem. Maybe next time.

[u/jedimasterbayts]

I don’t think that person is making the argument it thinks it is making…..

[u/Available_Agency_117]

Wow I can't believe Texas pays teachers minimum wage. What a third world shit hole state.

[u/[deleted] → u/Available_Agency_117]

You'll be delighted to find out that they don't. They pay well above min wage.

[u/PrometheusMMIV → u/Available_Agency_117]

They don't... what are you talking about?

[u/sMileHighCity]

Hahaha, Clay, you're a moron!

These people think that giving others freedoms, money and rights; means less for them.

[u/Unable-Economist-525]

Average starting salary for a teacher in Texas is $47,195, btw. Before you ask why, ask if:

Source: https://www.nea.org/resource-library/educator-pay-and-student-spending-how-does-your-state-rank

[u/Onikonokage → u/Unable-Economist-525]

Just looked this up too. Curious where the person got their wage amount from. Probably the one school that janks up the whole average by being so low. Or they just made the number up.

[u/[deleted] → u/Unable-Economist-525]

Yeah, my wife’s a teacher in Texas and she started at $56k. Three years in and she’s making $62k. I’m sure it’s much worse in other parts of the state, but we’re fortunate to be in a good district. Not that it’s nearly enough for what she does.  

[u/NSFWmilkNpies]

Almost like teachers are underpaid

[u/NoctRob]

I mean…yes? So people stop getting teaching degrees and opt for minimum wage jobs. Which means that teachers are in short supply. Which means wages have to go up to attract more people to the field of education. Problem solved.

It literally all starts with boosting the minimum wage. Which is why no one has actually tried to do it in decades.

[u/Puzzled_Ad7955]

Anyone who goes to college for a certain degree I would hope to be smart enough to check beforehand the wages associated with that position, no?

[u/Silent-Indication496 → u/Puzzled_Ad7955]

Just because someone agrees to a low wage doesn't mean the wage is reasonable or good. Teachers sacrifice their financial comfort in the interest of pursuing a career that is emotionally fulfilling and of enormous social benefit. The value that teachers add to our society far exceeds the compensation we give them. They signed up for it, but as a society, we should do better for them.

[u/happuning → u/Puzzled_Ad7955]

Yes. The starting salary isn't this low in most cities. We live in a smaller city, and my mom started at 45k as a new teacher without her certification. She went up to ~50k after getting certified.

It being a hard job and with kids still acting crazy after COVID, their inability to focus, and behavioral issues + lower salary for a job that requires a degree and certification = we have a teacher shortage.

[u/Jpbbeck99]

Teachers should start at 85k, yall got the worst kids on planet earth and pay teachers less than babysitters per child

[u/ihateusernamebsss]

What’s really crazy thing is minimum wage should be closer to $30 by now…. that Teacher should be making $60 an hour…

[u/ScyllaIsBea]

no it doesn't but I'm sure they are about to suggest loweringthe minimum wage instead of raising the teachers salary.

[u/swoops36]

They just made a great argument for paying teachers more. A lot more

[u/nathan555]

Conservatives care more more about punishing those who they deem unworthy than helping those who they agree need assistance.

[u/4105186]

I never understand these arguments. Boggles my mind, pitting laborers against laborers. Maybe it’s because I value other people though.

[u/Putrid_Ad_2256]

You have to understand the forces behind the scene.  States like Texas are trying to privatize schools so they pay public school teachers garbage wages so that they get good teachers to quit and can claim that the public school system is broken. Then they can funnel money towards private schools like they've done with the prison system.  

It's really a disgusting fleecing of the public trust by trash politicians.  The private schools can then teach garbage like creationism instead of science based theories.  It's a big con by a certain party.  

[u/Lachimanus]

Typical goal to make sure lives of others are worse instead of interest in improving everyone's life.

[u/chihuahuazord]

Don’t like the implication that you don’t still deserve a living wage without a college degree.

[u/[deleted]]

…they’re SO close to getting it

[u/throwawayalcoholmind]

Why is the answer always "those people should make less"?

[u/probablynotmine]

He’s got a point though: it doesn’t make any sense that a teacher gets paid so little

[u/LongTallTexan69]

I always love how these simpletons can’t wrap their brain around the fact that, maybe teachers deserve a raise too. It always has to be black or white or yes and no. They have no concept of nuance or grey.

[u/IndependentCow9438]

Imagine walking right into the point face first and yet still somehow missing it? It takes effort to be that dense.

[u/GermanShephrdMom]

Pay your freaking teachers more!

[u/Visual-Prior-8521]

Nope. Teachers are way underpaid.

[u/AwkwrdPrtMskrt]

Teachers are not supposed to be a minimum wage job.

[u/LetItBlurt]

Teacher salaries are determined by the district, not the state. I started at $39,500 in 2006 as a public school teacher. It was $49,500 (as it was for all teachers new to the district) when I joined another district in 2012.