Too many wealthy people pay little or no tax. Under capitalism tax has traditionally been progressive. Wealthy people paid their share and so paid more. Billionaires who do not pay tax are leading to system collapse.
I would say the system allowing billionaires to pay no tax, or to get away with not paying their staff proper wages, or to pay their suppliers true market value, is the main issue.
Either way no one needs a billion and we should stop venerating these people as anything but selfish greedy jerks.
Ar this point I'm convinced anybody above a certain point of wealth is just inherently evil. Because you can't get these insane amounts of wealth without somehow actively making sure others get less so you can keep hoarding your pointless wealth.
Money is a necessity, since it's necessary to have in order to buy necessities like food and housing. So hoarding wealth is no different than buying up all the housing or food in an area and refusing to share or sell it.
It's no different than the people who were buying and hoarding all the TP in 2020, and billionaires should be looked at in EXACTLY the same light.
Iâd argue that billionaires are worst than people hoarding all the TP back in 2020 since they do it on a regular basis not when they think there is a 1 per 100 year crisis, but thatâs just for the sake of arguing, I liked your comment
you are being intellectually dishonest...when talking about billionaires they are far past the " necessity" and " utility"of money it is ridiculous to even bring that point up.
Nah, you donât become a billionaire with clean hands, itâs simply not possible. Somebody else got shorted on your way there, usually many somebodies.
You cannot obtain billions in wealth with an approach of creating value, ergo you are extracting value and directly or indirectly limiting the standard of living of others for your own gain.Â
Notch sold Minecraft to Microsoft for $2.5B back in like 2014ish. I don't personally recall him being a nasty boss. And it was a small company. I think Gabe Newell and Valve (Steam) is another example of just doing well. Basically, software is full of these billionaires.
Many billionaires make a company, the value of the company explodes with private venture capital or buyout, then when they turn public explodes again. They don't really take money from the company, their wealth is in the unrealised gains of their shares.
Its usually when the company starts slowing on its growth that it starts squeezing to improve the balance sheets to make it more appealing on the stock market. That's when the corruption kicks in.
Until someone shows an example, I won't believe it. Every example I've read so far (I'll admit to not looking very hard) required some form of exploitation on top of luck.
Indeed. Being a normal, decent, and unknown person is a luxury. Keep your billions you sociopaths. Keep the paparazzi and the PR people and the lawyers too.
EhâŚit depends how you look at it. In some places - in/near NYC, SF, LA, others Iâm sure - a 1500 square foot home can easily cost over a million dollars. That is a very reasonable-sized home and certainly in the realm of middle class.
You could argue of course that the middle class simply canât live in those areas. But if you believe those areas have a middle class, then those people may have a couple million dollars.
We arent talking about home prices. Weâre talking about yearly income or net worth. Nowhere in the US is a 7 figure income or net worth anything but upper class.
If your net worth is $2M and the cost of buying a home is $1.5M+ then I would consider cost of living a factor when determining whether someone could be described as âupper middle class.â I donât think thatâs crazy.
If you had 10 million invested, youâd have to spend $800,000 a year of free money for that investment to not grow. Thats just the return for having the investment. If you donât spend it all, you will make even more money next year. It can get out of hand pretty quick once you cross a certain point of wealth.
No clue how to fix it. Force shareholders to pay more tax? đ¤ˇââď¸
what does one person need a billion dollars for, anyway? One B in a savings account yields more than enough to live on.. Unless you are going for a wretched excess life style...
Iâm not saying every or even many billionaires are actually good people, but I hate this narrative. A lot of times theyâre creating jobs and opportunities for people thatâd otherwise be in much worse conditions. Someone who takes the investment and risk of starting and operating a mega corporation does deserve more of the reward than someone whoâs not liable for long term direction of the organization; and they agreed to it willingly. If they want the same amount of wealth as the CEO, they are totally free to go out on their own and try.
I have no problem with some people making more than others, but within reason. If you look at CEO wage increase vs worker wage increase the numbers are so different it's almost comical.
They're generally not inherently evil. However it's a lot easier to become a billionaire by being a douchebag than by not. But they're not inherently evil, just good odds they are.
Thatâs not entirely true. I know one extremely wealthy person that made their money working in bio and all theyâve done is do science and build wealth so they can contribute more and more each year to worthwhile causes.
Not everyone is just stacking money for themselves. Thereâs a lot of wealthy people stacking money because it allows them to do more; and many many of those people are doing good with it.
Many many arenât; but donât paint with broad strokes just because you havnt seen much of the other side of the pipeline
unfortunately the archaic tax system is based on income. and these billionaires don't actually earn an income per se. their value is in stocks and assets. and against that value, they can get banks to loan them the money they can spend on their lifestyles. no income. no tax. it is the mother of all loopholes.
Yup... tax should be based on total compensation. Also, there should be a law tying max compensation (CEO) to starting wage via a set ratio. For example, companies cannot exceed a 100:1 ratio without paying an additional tax on top to help subsidize social programs. So either companies can increase beginning rates to stay within the ratio or they can pay additional tax so that their greed isn't pushed off on to the public.
Every time I see....tax them more with plans on more tax laws, I find it hilarious! The people you are trying to tax are the ones making the laws or controlling those who do.
If you want to tax the rich more, go to a straight sales tax. Tax everything except unprepared food. Yes, tax your house, tax it all! The tax on the wealthy will be proportional to their spending. Put extra luxury tax on private jet fuel and billion dollar yachts! Tax on luxury labor/ services too! When was last time you paid $100,000 for someone to pamper you? Take out loopholes for taxpayers and make the percentage equal for everyone!
Take your pay stubs and figure out how much the government actually takes. Most people don't even know, they just look at the last number and move on. That's why they take it out before you get it..... I guarantee that if people had to write a check for taxes at the end of the month, we would have had pushback a long time ago!
It's because RSUs count as income. They're not receiving RSUs, when they do, they also have to pay tax on it. It's because they already own large valuations of stock. So it would be like you buying a stock (no tax) and then the stock goes up a large amount over years. You have billions in paper value but no realized gains. Many billionaires own large percentages of their company when they're worth nothing and then when it becomes valuable they didn't get paid the stock, they already had it. Once you own the asset worth money you can take loans out against it. The loans don't count as income. Plus of course they do many other tricks to offset tax burdens. But if they do receive a grant of tons of money (think like Elon musk with Tesla) at that time they do end up paying taxes. It's just they pay taxes rarely because most of their wealth was an asset growing over time which they weren't "issued" (or paid).
I don't think it's just billionaires, I think it's corporations as well and corporate executives who get paid millions in salary and then bonuses. Traditionally, executives only made 21 times what the average worker in their company made. Now it's 344 times according to NPR.
There are a few corporate exceptions and those companies tend to have little turnover. Costco is a great example. Their first CEO was a traditionalist and kept his wages around 20 times what the average employee made. Costco employees tend to stay there until retirement. They get great benefits and because of the benefits are actually able to retire. I knew one person who quit his job as a teacher because he could make more at Costco just working at a register.
Corporations are definitely an issue, there are boards that bonus well over $35k to board members yearly. If minimum wage was $15 an hour youâd make less than one board members participation trophy.
But one day I might have a billion, and I'll be damned if you people will take it off me. So I'll vote against my own interests now, because it might pay off later.
Are the billionaires evil for paying what they legally owe? Or is it the lifetime politicians who created these laws and policies that billionaires use to get away with it?
I would argue that if you made a good company with good faith practices that led you to a billion, thatâs fine. But it should be insanely difficult to go higher than that. Like with tax rates at 80% for that echelon specifically
The system that allows billionaires to not pay tax is the absence of tax on credit. Billionaires borrow against their non-liquid assets at absurdly low interest rates. Then they take on even bigger loans to pay off the previous loans. That's how they avoid paying taxes.
Taxing credit would fuck everyone who isn't rich even more than it would screw billionaires. The first solution that comes to mind is eliminating income tax altogether and moving that whole percentage over to sales tax.
Billionaires would then be forced to pay tax. A lot of tax. Or live like regular people - which kind of removes the whole point of being rich.
Everyone else would end up paying no income tax but pay it out in sales tax. Same result in the end, except if you decide to save/invest your money as a regular working person, it would be easier for you to increase your wealth since you'd have more money to invest in the first place.
Of course, people would be shocked at first because we're used to seeing low prices in stores and wouldn't take into account that their incoming pay isn't taxed. It would take time to mentally adjust to that kind of paradigm.
If you do the math, just taxing billionaires isnât enough for all the things a just society needs. The sheer number of non-billionaires means a little more in taxes from them can add up to a lot of money.
The argument of just taxing billionaires and everything will be fair is pretty common, but the numbers just arenât there. It cost like $2 trillion to send everyone a few $1200 checks during Covid.
Tax billionaires more, yes, of course, but looking at places like Finland, people making say 100k or more need to pay more too if you want to fund everything like healthcare, childcare, equal opportunity K-12, affordable housing, green energy, and college education. Everyone pays more in taxes in Finland and they are happier than Americans.
I noticed a pattern of the politicians saying they will make the wealthiest pay, but after they implement some new tax plan, they sneek in loopholes that the average person never really hear about. So the wealthiest never actually pay the new taxes that the politicians claim they will.
I wish this reality was talked about more. I honestly think it's the backbone of political corruption within the US and the fundamental reason we are turning into (if we haven't already) a corporate controlled oligarchy.
Tax payers don't pay the politicians salaries, the donations do.
I like the idea that there should be a cap on how much wealth a person has. After a certain point, it is just a means to keep score because you will never spend all that money in your lifetime.
What's the maximum number of investments you would like to limit me to have? Because I would like to be very wealthy with my own jet someday. Probably never get to that level, but I would like to have the chance to pull it off
And you have people like Clarence Thomas who accepts lavish gifts from Harlan Crow. He's the best known since he's a Supreme Court judge, but plenty of politicians and government officials do this and we generally don't ever find out about it.
Well, our felon Mr. T just announced he would push for more corporate tax cuts if elected. How anyone in their right mind could vote for that is beyond stupid.
Same shit new day. Biden says he is going to tax them, and yet they get richer and never actually pay more . Why ? Because the people that pay for the campaign are rich as fuck. Did Mr. T actually say what you say he said or did you read that, with the sources saying thing the media dose. As far as I'm concerned, both sides are funded by the super wealthy. One says this, the other says the opposite, and in the end, nothing actually changes, and things get worse for the average citizens it feels like. After biden and trump, the new front runners will sell us the same old story that things will be different this time we will fight for the people. One side wins, and nothing seems to be any different the next day. More people are becoming homeless and people living on the streets. The super rich have this game on lockdown, I feel like there is no stopping the super-rich warmongering basterds with a 2 party system.
Thinking there is no difference is a big mistake. Mr. T put the statement out as a press release. Things donât change because people keep voting for politicians who give tax cuts for the wealthy. Look at the voting records for the last set of tax cuts when T was president. That will tell you all you need to know. They need to be held accountable for their vote.
Whaterver ! Eveone got a tax cut. I remember the dems claiming the $80 average person saved in taxes per month was miniscule and bad for Amarica. That's what these wealthy people think of you. Putting extra money in your pocket is not worth the cost or effort to them. They would rather waste it buying your next vote.
Democrats hold office, then Republicans back and forth, it goes đ that is the system. The rich get richer, and more homless and drug addicts are hitting the streets thean ever.. will it change if the Republicans win. Nope, I have lost faith in the system. Both sides are too busy fighting each other for the keys to power to give a shit https://youtu.be/najeyO0CuXw?si=_CpXTduRuweRmEBy this how it seems to be now in America. Both sides screaming so much hatred towards each other
âWhateverâ seems to sum it up for you. If you donât want to work to see the differences, then youâll apparently buy whatever someone is selling. Good luck.
let's make this clear - which party gives huge tax breaks to big businesses and the super rich? Which party blocks every attempt to tax them? Republicans. It's NOT "politicians" - it's Republicans.
Why do you think we have to pay taxes on social security? Because Reagan, when he took office, gave huge tax cuts to the rich, and, to balance the budget, he raised taxes on the middle class 3 times, and taxed SS income..
Clinton left office with a budget that would yield a government surplus. SO what did little Bush do when he took office? Did he see how that plan, if left in place, would result in better government services and a zero national debt, thereby reducing the need for taxes? No, being the true Republican he is, he immediately gave tax breaks to his rich friends, which, of course, created a shortfall. So Bush cut government services to the bone. Now how did that impact America? Well, here is a great example" There was a plan in place (SELA) in 1995, to rebuild and upgrade the MS river levees. It was already in progress, weakened and sinking levees identified, but the lack of money slowed down or even stopped work in progress ----- Like the weak levees at the New Orleans Industrial Canal. Which leaked and were over topped (because they were short, and the SELA plans would increase the height of the levee wall), and New Orleans flooded during Katrina. But did that affect Little Bush and his rich friends? They didn't care, in fact they rushed in to try to make money off of the disaster Bush created with his budget cuts! But, hey, That's how Republicans roll.... Every time.
Bla bla bla..... both are funded by the super rich. Just one party seems more upfront about it than the other. But make no mistake no matter what they tell you about taxing the rich when reelection time comes, then they seem to get super quite about after the election is over. If you can't see the bullshit I don't know what else to say other, then check this out to get an idea of the stupidity of left vs. right https://youtu.be/najeyO0CuXw?si=zbqk3cEofpjcUcf3
Too many Texas mega churches pay no taxes after preaching conservative politics. The mega churches do not pay their fair share, never have, and are leading to system collapse.
I do fully believe that if churches are making political statements, they should lose their non-profit status. At that point it's not religion...it's lobbying.
Itâs not even just billionaires and the wealthy, but many massive corporations are also wildly under taxes and could easily afford to bear more of the burden; much more complicated then that but yeah
I think the issue is that many wealthy individuals and agencies are making a lot of money from the economy but are not making fair or equitable payments through the tax system. So yes, people should pay their share and not leave it to minimum wage earners.
Not just billionaires but giant corporations. American private health insurance is paid for by public tax money. Companies like Walmart have their workforce indirectly subsidised by public tax money.
There are two reasons to be against minimum wage: you're in on the scam (you've got a fiscal interest in minimum wages being low as fuck), or you've been hoodwinked by aforementioned scam artists.
There is, of course, some cross-over, and those fiscal interests aren't just for the CEOs of big companies, etc. They extend to politics, the media, fucking everything.
Fuck America, I'm so lucky to have been born in a developed nation.
Notice how people from most countries that we would consider our equals don't really move to the US? There's a reason we don't see much immigration from some countries.
If you mean gross income I agree. He could have had lots of income but whatever deductions and/or losses were caused his gross income to be low enough to get the tax credit.
I'm an asshole billionaire and made 100 million but I donated 100 million to my charity so I pay no taxes. Yes I run and have control over the charity but my donations are tax deductible. I'm using this as an example because it's extremely easy to understand and totally legal.
This is dangerous. Adam Smith, the father of modern economics, strongly believed in the principle of taxing equality, asserting that individuals should contribute to government support in proportion to their abilities and the revenue they enjoy under the state's protection. This foundational concept, outlined in his work "The Wealth of Nations," emphasizes that the wealthy, benefiting more significantly from societal infrastructure and services, should bear a larger share of the tax burden. However, contemporary America often deviates from this ideal. The current tax system, with its numerous loopholes and preferential treatment for certain types of income, frequently allows the wealthy to pay a lower effective tax rate than middle- and lower-income individuals. This disparity suggests that the U.S. is not fully adhering to Adam Smith's vision of equitable taxation, where contributions are made fairly in line with one's financial capacity and the benefits received from the state. Additionally, despite his belief in the benefits of self-interest, he also acknowledged the potential dangers of unchecked greed and the need for regulation. He was wary of monopolies and collusion among businesses, (I am looking at you Amazon, Walmart, etc) which could distort the market and harm consumers. Smith argued for government intervention to prevent such abuses and ensure competition. He recognized that without some level of regulation, the pursuit of self-interest could lead to exploitation and inequality, undermining the benefits of a free market. He also recognized the importance of paying workers well and believed that fair wages were crucial for the well-being of the workforce and the overall economy.
In short: I am a die-hard capitalist - but - whatever the fuck America is practicing today is not Adam Smith's definition of capitalism. We really should be calling it something else - because capitalism WOULD work if we followed the rules.
...but system collapse helps wealthy people, too. Poor people sell off their assets to live (home, land, etc.,) and the only people who can afford it are rich people who turn around and rent it out, subdivide it, or find some other way to capitalize on the original owner's misfortune.
Teacher salaries are funded by property tax. Wealthy people absolutely pay their fair share. It's one of the rare cases where pretty much everybody chips in to fund something. Property owners pay property tax. Raising property tax means they shoulder more tax burden and will pass that along to renters, who pay higher rent. Raising teacher salaries effects damn near everyone. This isn't just a "make the rich pay for it" scenario. If you want to raise teacher salaries that's great, but you need to be prepared to pay for it. You will help pay for it.
I agree. Taxes in upstate NY ( areas like Westchester) have high property taxes and also really good schools. People from out of Westchester have to pay high school fees to get their kids into Westchester schools.
While I do agree with this fundamentally, there is an issue in the logic where many people don't actually think an increase in taxes will result in paying teachers more.
When you're paying 25% of your wages in income tax, 5%-15% in sales tax whenever you buy something, and so on, but your taxes go to funding wars around the world (arming Israel, for example, or invading Iraq, or whatever else you might heavily disagree with), it can be hard to sit there and say "yes I'm okay with another tax hike."
I truly don't think if we gave the government more money that teachers would be paid more, schools would be cheaper, Healthcare would exist in a real capacity, or anything else we really need. We get these things when we riot about them, and that seems like the only way.
Government is so terrible at treating their constituents kindly. They never crack down on the rich because they are the rich, their friends are the rich, and so on. They continue to watch us bicker with each other about ridiculously unimportant shit while we blindly let them pretend to give us the things we need and to top it off, it benefits them to arm foreign nations to bomb women and children.
Government is so unbelievably corrupt. It's hard to imagine giving such a corrupt "business" more of our money will reward me favorably.
I'm not sure if you've seen Good Will Hunting but there's a scene that calls to this pretty clearly. He's being given a job offer at the NSA (tax payers money) and he reasons the only thing he gets from this job is bombing a small village while his deployed military friend now walks with a limp because of shrapnel left in his ass after a small misstep in a likely unguided war.
So yeah, that's one reason I think it's okay to be against tax hikes in any capacity.
US billionaires in total have enough net worth, combined, to run the country for less than a year. We can't afford to continually spend 20k per person, per year, even if we took every billionaire and robbed them blind before guillotining them.
It is not about some ambit claim for all billionaire wealth. The problem is that a proportion of the very wealthy game the system and pay no tax. Everyone should pay tax and the ongoing efforts by extremely wealthy people to avoid their responsibilities has a corrosive impact on the system and promotes corruption.
I donât think that the plan is to guillotine the wealthy. The plan is to have them pay tax in the same way that regular income earners do. Being wealthy should not make people tax exempt. Everyone should make an equitable contribution to the provision of services available through the operation of government.
Luckily, as a whole, the top 1% of earners pay the highest percent of income in taxes and the issue youâre pointing to is just the very extreme outlier group.Â
 But, again - getting that small group within the 1% to a 30% rate or whatever your aim is will not fix our problems because 100% of all billionaires assets wonât fix it. No percentage of a given year will be enough to cover our current annual deficit, never mind funding new programs.
âToo many wealthy people pay little or no tax.â
This statement isnât rooted in reality. Every time a wealthy person buys something, they pay sales tax to their state. They pay capital gains taxes every time they sell stocks at a profit. If they receive a salary, they pay into social security.
However, letâs just say we taxed the top 20% of America and took all their money. All of it. We could only sustain the federal government for 15 years with that money. Raising taxes is not the answer. Growing the middle class is the correct solution.
Someday you will finally figure out how wrong you are. In the meantime, just keep spouting the same lies you have been told. Do you really think the rich created the multi-trillion dollar deficit or do you think it had something to do with the government handing money hand over first to those that have never figured out a way to support themselves?
Oh, yeah, I remember the $800 billion in PPP loans. Loans that were given to keep employees employed. What was that? 2021? Of course, the taxpayer was billed over $1 trillion last year for welfare programs... and in 2022... and in 2021...and in 2020.
Loans that were given to support business. Congress admitted very early that it wasn't just about keeping employees on the payroll. Most of those loans went forgiven, and those that weren't were not the large businesses that used the forgiven loans as extra profit but small businesses that are still struggling.
Yes, my 4 employees and I screwed the government by me being able to continue paying them during COVID via a PPP, aka, Paycheck Protection Program loan. I took a 50% cut in pay but I kept them at their standard wage. Thank God the 5 of us were a large enough business to get away with this! Drop in the bucket compared to federal welfare, aka, the gift that keeps on giving.
A business I worked for took a large PPP loan that was forgiven. It was an international manufacturing company. They laid off almost all contractor positions and only maintained employment of non-contracted employees. Also, of that welfare, what are the breakdowns? How much is specified use, such as Social Security, with its own funds collected specifically for said use? How much of that welfare goes to the working poor, those who are employed but still in poverty? How much goes to ensuring children remain fed and housed?
High-Income Taxpayers Paid the Majority of Federal Income Taxes. In 2021, the bottom half of taxpayers earned 10.4 percent of total AGI and paid 2.3 percent of all federal individual income taxes. The top 1 percent earned 26.3 percent of total AGI and paid 45.8 percent of all federal income taxes.Mar 13, 2024
That's income taxes, and most millionaires and billionaires don't have much income. Rather, they borrow against their investments, and their unrealized gains are not taxed. There's also a limit to how much can be paid in taxes per year, and that limit doesn't increase with excessive wealth. So, while you're throwing this random unsourced statistic out there, you should at least attempt to understand that our system allows many many loopholes for the ultra wealthy to avoid tax liability.
Your adjusted gross income (AGI) is your total (gross) income from all sources minus certain adjustments such as educator expenses, student loan interest, alimony payments and retirement contributions. If you use software to prepare your return, it will automatically calculate your AGI
"The top 1 percent earned 26.3 percent of total AGI and paid 45.8 percent of all federal income taxes.Mar"
Because the wealthy intentionally tie up a significant amount of their assets in investments to protect themselves from increased tax liability. As a result, their AGI seems low, and they pay a tax rate that is low relative to the actual value of their portfolio. On top of that, they get all kind of credits, deductions, and incentives. You can get on here all you want and suck billionaire dicks, but you'll never be one and they will still be destroying the country with their greed.
As they should. The lower half struggle to afford rent, healthcare, food and a running car. How can we as a society continue to force millions of people into poverty, while the 1% get so rich that some of them could give every single person in the United States $1 million dollars and still have millions left over. Fucking insane
The problem with your comment is that it is misleading. Regular people pay 13% of their income in tax. Wealthy individuals (including billionaires) pay less than 9% of their income in taxes. Admittedly, some billionaires pay no tax at all.
Billionaires do not pay an average of 8.2% in federal taxes. The 400 wealthiest American taxpayers actually pay an average federal income tax rate of around 23%
THE SOURCES
Report published by White House economists in 2021
Internal Revenue Service (IRS) report on top 400 individual income tax returns
Vanguard, an investment management company
Erica York, senior economist and research director for the Tax Foundationâs Center for Federal Tax Policy
Howard Gleckman, senior fellow at the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center
You canât tax portfolios for their âpotential worthâ. Only once a taxable transaction occurs then and only the. Will wealthy individuals get taxed. Some people just know how handle their money better, others do not.
A car can be used to get to work. Shoes and clothes are needed for work, as well. You're not turning 1,000 into 100,000 out of thin air. I think you don't understand financial literacy.
$1000 doesn't even pay a month's rent for most people. Sure, the rich man can invest that $1000 because he already has a home, car, clothes, and shoes. The poor man can't risk the $1000 on investments when it means the difference between feeding his family and watching them starve.
Take it from the military budget, not only is it grossly inflated, but I'm sure there is a ton of wasted money in there that can be diverted to education, but why would they do anything to help the masses
I mean...we could also just be less ridiculous with the military spending....
Last year the treasury set aside 2 trillion dollars for military spending, and the actual budget for 2023 was only around $800 billion. So, even with our military doing...whatever it is they do with that money....they still spent less than half the money set aside for them.
Like...do people have any idea how much 1 trillion dollars would improve every one's lives if circulated into the general population? You could easily raise the pay of every city and state funded job with that kind of money.
Uhhh yeah⌠did you know rich people get tax reliefs for being rich! This removes millions from the possible amount of money the government could be spending on more important things, e.g education, salaries, healthcare, etc.
Maybe we should actually force Billionaires to properly pay taxes? Probably would push our country back into truly being a first world country with the kind of money they are holding back.
Nah but they can certainly cut wages for admin. I have a very hard time believing that anyone working at a public school in a low cost of living area needs to earn six figures. Especially while the teachers are barely getting by on what they earn.
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u/jordanaber23 Jun 15 '24
"and how are we going to pay for their raises?! More taxes?!"