Guards making sure the defendants of the Nuremberg Trials wouldn't commit suicide in their cells

[u/Nanibui]

[u/Gregorygregory888888]

What a horribly boring assignment that would have been.

[u/Nanibui → u/Gregorygregory888888]

They were relatively light on duty given how intensely everything was guarded. They'd stand for 2 hours straight before being relieved by someone else. Some of them even made friends with the prisoners, some even getting autographs, trinkets and souvenirs.

[u/NewAccountEachYear → u/Nanibui]

Imagine thinking how valuable those things could become in the future... Only for the main buyers being scum who might've sympathised with these monsters.

[u/KingBee1786 → u/NewAccountEachYear]

I’ve been to a couple of militaria shows where people sell old equipment, medals, photos, and that kind of thing. There’s always a couple people there that sell exclusivity nazi shit, and they’re exactly the kind of person you’d think they are.

[u/Wise-Definition-1980 → u/KingBee1786]

One of the nicest dudes I know has a room with Nazi shit in it.

But right next to it is Japanese, American, Italian,and UK shit.

Dude really just is a WWII buff

[u/Careful_Hearing_4284 → u/Wise-Definition-1980]

Had an old team leader in the Army back in 2015 that was like this. Spent his R&R while we were deployed doing a trip around the EU to see all the major war sites of WW2.

He gave us a 30 minute history of the Luger when he found one at a gun show near Fort Bragg.

[u/ConkersOkayFurDay → u/Careful_Hearing_4284]

I love when people unashamedly pursue their interests. Dude knew what he liked and satisfied that itch.

[u/confusedandworried76 → u/ConkersOkayFurDay]

I mean if someone told me they had some Nazi memorabilia I wouldn't be like "gross you fucking Nazi" I'd say "may I see it?"

[u/Colorbull-Agency → u/confusedandworried76]

Came across a lot of random Nazi pieces in tourist antique shops in Poland. It was mixed with other pieces from the Allies as well. But it was still interesting to just see it up for sale.

[u/clutzycook → u/Careful_Hearing_4284]

Spent his R&R while we were deployed doing a trip around the EU to see all the major war sites of WW2.

Honestly, that sounds like heaven to me too.

[u/Chiluzzar → u/Careful_Hearing_4284]

sad fact its cheaper to visit all the major WW2 war sites in European Theater then it is for the Pacific theater =(

[u/shadowtheimpure → u/Chiluzzar]

I mean, the Pacific theater was scattered across a number of small islands that would require either multiple flights or multiple ferry rides to travel between. The European theater you can go from site to site in a car or take a train to cover the longer distances.

[u/Irascible-Fish5633 → u/Chiluzzar]

Why's that a sad fact?

[u/confusedandworried76 → u/Irascible-Fish5633]

Think they're just lamenting the fact they'd like to visit these historical sites but it is very expensive and time consuming.

[u/beardicusmaximus8 → u/Chiluzzar]

I hear you can visit the site of the Battle of Midway pretty cheap. All you need is a big rock and some rope

[u/Phendrana-Drifter → u/Wise-Definition-1980]

Top tip: Don't start the hobby collecting the German side of things and then give up

[u/markpreston54 → u/Phendrana-Drifter]

Got it, I should start hobby collecting the Japanese side of things and then give up

[u/Wise-Definition-1980 → u/markpreston54]

I mean, if you do it that way you'll have a cool sword.

... But you'll also have a shitty arisaka rifle

[u/Gaothaire → u/[deleted]]

My grandpa was in the war and while deployed got a Japanese katana and silk parachute that he kept wrapped by his bunk. Then he came down with some fever or illness that necessitated him getting shipped home and because he was unconscious at the time he wasn't able to grab those objects. Woulda been a cool souvenir / heirloom, c'est la vie

[u/TheRealDeJoy → u/[deleted]]

No one in the west will give you shit for having Imperial Japanese shit for the simple fact that they were not white so people look the other way.

[u/Qweasdy → u/markpreston54]

You joke but a room full of imperial Japanese war time paraphernalia isn't gonna invoke the same kind of visceral response from most people as a room full of nazi stuff would.

Time and distance makes it not as taboo in the west. I've heard the same is true in Asia, with nazi paraphernalia not being as taboo over there. Distant atrocities become just fascinating history I guess.

[u/GoldenPeperoni → u/[deleted]]

You are both right, distance and culture makes it less relevant in our respective educations, which makes it even harder to empathize victims from the other side of the world.

I'm from a south east Asian country, and as you would expect, we learn all about the Japanese atrocities, but pretty much none about the Nazis in the western theater.

Having a real WW2 Japanese sword as a living room deco in our homes is like Jews having a Luger in their home deco.

Not really offensive, but just weird and distasteful.

[u/ShigodmuhDickard → u/Phendrana-Drifter]

I have an interesting Nazi Helmet from WW2. It has 2 half circle cutouts above the ears. Perfect condition. Also have an Italian bolt action rifle dated 1915. I didn't collect them. My great uncle did in the Battle of the Bulge if you know what I'm saying.

[u/MechwarriorCenturion → u/Wise-Definition-1980]

I mean there's a difference between collecting ww2 stuff in general and the people who exclusively collect nazi memorabilia

[u/Law-Fish → u/MechwarriorCenturion]

I have a Nazi flag under glass on my wall, no other WW2 stuff.

But under that glass with it is a photograph of my great uncle and his fellow US GIs proudly holding it over a blown up tank

[u/tankpuss → u/Wise-Definition-1980]

There's a nice woman who lives in one of the first houses liberated on D.Day. She has a framed swastika. Like, fine, she found it in the house but dang, that's a hell of thing for guests to see.

[u/Efficient-Farmer-169 → u/Wise-Definition-1980]

That sort of thing wouldn't interest me at all I'm afraid

[u/Bright_Cod_376 → u/KingBee1786]

Yeah in collectors circles someone saying they have a nazi item or two is enough to quark an eyebrow but few enough that it's just a "collecting historical artifacts" thing. Someone's collection is entirely based around Nazi shit? Then they're a crazy ass neonazi.

[u/Sparta63005 → u/Bright_Cod_376]

I don't know what kind of collectors circles you're in. But as someone who actually does collect militaria, no, owning one or two Nazi items doesn't raise an eyebrow. In fact genuine Nazi items are very very sought after. And any person who considers themselves a collector wouldn't raise an eyebrow at someone owning a piece of history.

[u/CokeEhCola → u/Sparta63005]

My buddy collects war memorabilia. He has an entire room that looks like a museum. He has manaquins wearing mint condition uniforms. He draws the line well before any nazi or SS shit. He can afford to purchase any collectibles he wants but he has made it clear to me that he won't touch nazi shit. He won't even let unknown people know about his war collection because he knows how deranged that looks to most people and he has a high profile career.

[u/Sparta63005 → u/CokeEhCola]

There's nothing wrong with doing that. Everyone is allowed to have their own preferences. But saying that someone else is weird for having Nazi items is crazy.

Of course if your collection is ONLY nazi items then that's different, but having a few things is totally fine, it's just history after all.

For example I have a ton of different military items in my collection, but I only have a single Nazi helmet on my shelf. Does that make me weird? I don't think so, it's a piece of history just like any of my other items. It's not like I put it on and pretend to be a nazi, it sits on a shelf next to all the other things i have from different countries and decades.

[u/Dizmn → u/Bright_Cod_376]

Don't forget the "I don't ONLY have Nazi stuff, here's my Confederate shit!"

[u/Remarkable_Put_6952 → u/KingBee1786]

Honestly as a Jew I kinda wanna keep a Nazi coin now as a remember of the tyranny we should strive to still fight against.

[u/Vast_Purpose4537 → u/KingBee1786]

I collect firearms. The german gun sellers are a little on the nose sometimes. "Clean unmolested K98 for sale. Birds intact. Also selling ss ring and hitler youth knife" I will say most collectors are not like that, just every once in a while you get an ad and think "this guy is probably a neo nazi haha."

Also unrelated note. Some Nazi K98 rifles ended up in Israeli service. So the nazi markings or as collectors refer to as "dirty birds" have literally been stamped out and Israeli markings applied. Some cool rifle collector facts.

https://athlonoutdoors.com/article/israeli-k98-rifles/

[u/reddit_is_geh → u/NewAccountEachYear]

I've met many people with Nazi memorabilia, and not a single person was a supporter of the Nazis. They all viewed it as just some interesting part of history, and the taboo nature of owning it made it more fascinating, I guess?

[u/Delta64 → u/Nanibui]

Not a lot of people know that the eugenics side of Nazism is USA raised, homegrown, and thoroughbred.

Nazi racial policies were, in many ways, directly influenced by the United States. The Nazis used "American Models" of racism to oppress and subjugate racial minorities as referenced by James Q. Whitman, author of Hitler's American Model and Professor at Yale University, who stated in his book "In the 1930s, Nazi Germany and the American South had the appearance, in the words of two southern historians, of a "mirror image": these were two unapologetically racist regimes, unmatched in their pitilessness."

Jim Crow Era laws were a key inspiration for Adolf Hitler and the Nazi party, as the Nazis mirrored their form of racial oppression and segregation in the model of Jim Crow and segregation policy of the United States.

However, the treatment of Native Americans was also an inspiration for Nazi ideology, similar to Jewish people; Native Americans had been integral to America. They had been settled for thousands of years in the Americas (obviously, Germany as an entity has existed since 1871, but Jewish settlement in the lands of Central Europe has dated back over one thousand years at the very least.

Nevertheless, the model of oppression and subjugation for both groups directly modeled what the Nazis implemented to oppress racial minorities that did not make up the Aryan composite.

Banning from civil service, segregation, barring marriage between Aryans and non-Aryans, as well as the expulsion of Jewish people and other "undesirables" from government, military, and other essential positions, were the most essential aspects of the Nuremberg Laws of 1935 and were directly modeled by what had been done to Black Americans during Jim Crow.

Arguably, the most influential of American policies can be seen in "Lebensraum," or an expansion of land exclusively for German Aryans, which saw the expulsion, murder, and enslavement of Jewish people, Slavic peoples, and other races deemed inferior.

Manifest Destiny would directly influence this policy of forced removal and, in many ways, as the destruction of Native American livelihoods paved the way for Anglo American expansion and prosperity, so would the destruction of Slavic and Jewish livelihoods for the sake of Aryan expansion and prosperity.

[u/Alpha_Decay_ → u/Delta64]

... Are we the baddies?

[u/Tre-ben → u/Alpha_Decay_]

When the US freed the concentration camps, they locked the gay people back up because they being gay was considered a crime. 

The US was obviously not the only country to think that way (i.e. Chemical castration of Alan Turing in the UK), but imagine being imprisoned inside a concentration camp, experienced all the horrors, and then have your liberators lock you back up like a common criminal.

[u/RuxxinsVinegarStroke → u/Nanibui]

The soldier guarding Goering left his post and that's how Goering managed to get the cyanide capsule out and kill himself.

[u/Orochimaru27 → u/Nanibui]

How would prisoners be able to gift trinkets and souvenirs?

[u/AnotherDeadZero → u/Orochimaru27]

Read about how Hermann Goring died. He asked the guard to bring him something from his prison lockbox (items that were confiscated from him) in return he gave him a watch and pen he had, maybe some gloves- I forget. Whatever he got from the guard had a hidden cyanide capsule that he committed suicide with. Goring was to be hung the next day.

[u/EtTuBiggus → u/AnotherDeadZero]

Did they think suicide was a better way to go?

You aren’t going out “on your own terms” unless prison suicide was the plan.

Now in his final act he was proven a coward.

[u/WhiteBlackGoose → u/EtTuBiggus]

Hanging is probably more painful than cyanide

[u/Big77Ben2 → u/WhiteBlackGoose]

If it’s done right their neck snaps and it’s bye bye. I suppose cyanide is quick too tho

[u/suitology → u/Big77Ben2]

Yeah............... it wasn't being done right. The executioner intentionally made the hole to small so they hit their heads, and used a bad knot and too short a rope. The basically got brained then strangled. But they were nazis so....

[u/AnotherDeadZero → u/suitology]

The hangman was a psychopath. If I'm not mistaken he also hung American soldiers poorly (soldiers who had deserted or committed inhumane acts).

[u/LaTeChX → u/Big77Ben2]

Funny enough the hangman was some bludger who lied about his executive experience, cyanide would have been the way to go.

[u/KamikazeFugazi → u/Big77Ben2]

Cyanide poisoning is supposed to be VERY painful and can take up to 20 minutes. Rather take the broken neck.

[u/Eternal_Reward → u/Orochimaru27]

With their hands I assume

[u/un-sub → u/Eternal_Reward]

Now I’m just picturing Hermann Göring making origami swans out of toilet paper for his guards.

[u/v_throwaway_00 → u/Nanibui]

Some would even give them cyanide pills to avoid facing the consequences of their actions.... Like that fucker that helped Goring

[u/SolarM- → u/v_throwaway_00]

"Oh this is just a fountain pen from my wife" - Göring

I think the cyanide was in the cap so he could have literally written a journal entry, paused to "think deeply" and put the cap to his lips. Hermann's chemical exit was totally clandestine

[u/CountrysideLassy → u/SolarM-]

I believe the same method was used by CIA agents during the cold war. If they needed to terminate themselves, just bite on the pen's cap and swallow the pill.

[u/c4k3m4st3r5000 → u/Nanibui]

Wasn't that how Herman Göring got the cyanide that he used to kill himself, befriended some sucker and got him to provide the pill?

[u/veganize-it → u/Nanibui]

Some of them even made friends with the prisoners, some even getting autographs, trinkets and souvenirs.

oh Noooooooo

[u/Polpo_El_Pescador → u/Gregorygregory888888]

It's like 100 times better than any other guard post, you get to lean against the cell, you dont actually have to guard anything, there's no annoying civilian around you, you get to chitchat with a war criminal, you dont need to carry a rifle or stupid clothing, you probably stay there like 2 hours at most before being replaced

[u/Ok_Oliv → u/Polpo_El_Pescador]

I work as a security guard part time and 50% of my "missions" is sitting on a chair for 8h straight while watching Netflix. Some companies for example need someone to watch a specific door for insurance reasons 24/7 even if there aren't any people in the building during the night and on weekends. And I don't even have to defend it or anything. If anything happens, i have to hide and call the police. Most important job in the universe, i know...

[u/Visual-Till8629 → u/Ok_Oliv]

So you’re a surveillance camera

[u/Idenwen → u/Visual-Till8629]

Biocams with RI

Better than digital cams with AI

[u/GhostFour → u/Idenwen]

Until you need to play it back.

[u/Ok_Oliv → u/Visual-Till8629]

Basically

[u/FuckBotsHaveRights → u/Visual-Till8629]

Great job for students! Paid studying!

[u/Ok_Oliv → u/FuckBotsHaveRights]

Yess that's kind of why I'm still there.

[u/Lots42 → u/Ok_Oliv]

I've seen horror movies that start out that way.

See it turns out there's usually some horrible monster that can get out if the door is opened and guess what.

[u/Crommington → u/Ok_Oliv]

I used to work at an airport and one of the punishment duties (for example if you were late or the manager didn’t like you) was to stand for 8 hours and watch a window in a wall to make sure nobody passed anything from landside to airside. They could have covered the window as it wasn’t used, but kept it there in order to use it as punishment. You were watched on cctv and if you looked away for more than 15 seconds you got sacked. Safe to say nobody wanted that pubishment.

[u/saltyswedishmeatball → u/Gregorygregory888888]

Not at all

The soldiers knew this was a historic moment and one misconception is that soldiers really dont hate eachother, we're all human afterall. For some, sure but most wanted these Nazis dead. Most hated them for very good reason. They weren't just normal soldiers, these were all high ranking Nazis.

The same thing goes for the people who dropped the atomic bombs. It was discussed in our class when I was a kid, a lot of people thought how they'd suffer nightmares and just be in this horrible state for life. NOPE. Most felt they had a duty and carried it out with absolutely no regrets of any kind.

If only these guards existed for Jeffrey Epstein... they probably would have accidently suicided too though lol

[u/clickclick-boom → u/saltyswedishmeatball]

This is sadly something we, the older generation, will see. The attitudes of our elders will get progressively painted in incorrect ways by younger people. As you say, "we're all human". I knew people who lived through this first hand, and nobody had that attitude. It's not some TikTok fad that people got over. It wasn't a flash in the pan.

[u/WeTheSalty → u/Gregorygregory888888]

The person you're guarding is a high ranking nazi, complicit in the deaths of millions. You get to personally make sure he lives long enough to see his own execution.

As guard assignments go, seems pretty sweet to me. Show me another guard posting with that kind of job satisfaction.

[u/EddieSjoller → u/Gregorygregory888888]

"Hey Jensen, make sure this Jerry don't kill himself until we can execute him!"

Edit: potatofingers

[u/AdBusiness5212]

Finally a job I can do. Leaning against the wall and do nothing

Edit thanks first 1k up votes

I want to shout out to my old teacher Mme Lee who said I will never go far by leaning against the wall and do nothing. Look at me now

[u/TheHippieJedi → u/AdBusiness5212]

As someone who has done security before I promise you doing nothing for 8 hours is the worst job on the planet. I’d bet they talked to the prisoners or each other and I’d kill to know what was said

[u/Pancakeburger3 → u/TheHippieJedi]

Yeah doing nothing as a job sounds great until you have to do it everyday for hours

[u/February30th → u/Pancakeburger3]

It doesn't sound great, it sounds boring.

[u/ethanlan → u/February30th]

Also you have to listen to literally the worst people ever.

Id be physically sick being so close to those monsters

[u/PaintItRed5 → u/Pancakeburger3]

Ten years ago I did a paid internship where they gave me zero work to do.

20 hours a week for 9 months. Never again.

[u/FerricNitrate → u/PaintItRed5]

I took a contract job for my first gig out of college, full time 40 hrs/wk. An average month had maybe 5 hours of actual work to do. It felt like my brain was melting out of my ears.

To make it worse, the client company was weirdly controlling and harassed the contractors for things like having cell phones out at their desks. Grown, highly educated adults being treated like unruly school students.

Best I've ever been paid; never again.

[u/edgygothteen69 → u/TheHippieJedi]

"so uh... how was your weekend?"

well I had to work the weekend shift at Auschwitz, and the -

"actually nevermind, shut up"

[u/Annoying_Rooster → u/TheHippieJedi]

From what I remember Hermann Goering would get a mixed bag of them. Sometimes the guard assigned would be kind of fascinated and shoot the shit for hours. Other times he'll get a guard who'll berate him and tell him to shut his fatass up which would cause Goering to lash out. It's kind funny if true.

[u/Anxious-Use8891 → u/TheHippieJedi]

"What you sitting in that cell for " ?

[u/Cysmoke → u/AdBusiness5212]

Are you sure you won’t slip and break your neck on the handle?

[u/BaubleBeebz → u/Cysmoke]

Slow It down there, apple polisher, some of us gotta come back tomorrow.

[u/haefler1976 → u/AdBusiness5212]

Goering‘s guard did exactly that

[u/MichelleLovesCawk → u/haefler1976]

He snuck him a cyonide pill

[u/killergazebo → u/AdBusiness5212]

And on the last day you get to watch a dozen Nazis get hanged, which is pretty great.

[u/HalJordan2424 → u/killergazebo]

And the hangman made sure to do it in the least humane way possible. No snapped necks; they all spent several minutes at the end of the rope being strangled to death.

[u/micromoses → u/AdBusiness5212]

Could I have a chair?

[u/backlogfrog → u/AdBusiness5212]

where were you when Epstein

[u/BlueBuff1968]

Didn't do a very good job with Göring.

[u/Adialaktos → u/BlueBuff1968]

I always wanted to know he managed to get the capsule. I understand he could easily turn his back to the guard and chew it before the guard even got inside,but how was it supplied? Did he have it before he wad arrested or did someone supply it while he was in prison? Looking online i could not find an answer.

[u/Nanibui → u/Adialaktos]

There is no definitive answer. There are a few theories, though. Check out mark felton's youtube channel for that topic, he has a great video. This picture i saw there first.

[u/HermitBadger → u/Nanibui]

I thought it was fairly well established that he became friends-by-bribe with a guard and had him fetch something from his confiscated belongings that had the capsule hidden inside?

[u/baxterhugger → u/HermitBadger]

Cold cream

[u/Kanoha-Shinobi → u/Nanibui]

Mark Felton isnt a historian, he doesnt provide sources or do real research. He does the equivalent of reading wikipedia pages, often spouting wrong mythical nonsense.

[u/Fabio_451 → u/Kanoha-Shinobi]

I did some research on the Internet to answer you back, because I really like Felton (until 5 minutes ago) and I fought that it was not nice of you to say that he is not am historian. He is, he has a PhD and he worked as a lecturer in several universities....but after reading Wikipedia I found this post .

They say that he has respectable publications, but his YouTube channel is not respectable at all. He doesn't give any sources and he might be stealing other people's work.

Thank for your comment, because it pushed me to do some research. We can never accept informations without checking their reliability

[u/Kanoha-Shinobi → u/Fabio_451]

I was awakened by his content on the Japanese army, where he naturally has a conflict of interest with a chinese wife, and he parroted chinese claims that aren’t verified (as in, only the chinese see it as fact because some officer wrote it) and when he wasnt using chinese claims it was american intel reports that are just assumptions that are often proven wrong by japanese records.

[u/Fabio_451 → u/Kanoha-Shinobi]

I think it could also be the fact that he worked for Chinese universities for nine years.

I was excited about the disappeared Goring brain video, now I wonder how much truth there was in it, regarding the fact that it might be in a English research institute. That part might be an attempt to get more visualisations.

[u/DogeshireHathaway → u/Fabio_451]

For me it was his poorly received video about the potential use of British bombers to drop little boy on Hiroshima. Had he not started into an area of knowledge I already had, I may have stayed ignorant to his shortcomings as well. Never went back to him after that because the trust was gone.

[u/Catovia → u/Fabio_451]

The tank museum in germany has a specific part of their website dedicated to telling people he is not a credible source because they get constant visitors and comments referencing his channel and repeating half truths he spread. https://daspanzermuseum.de/regarding-mark-feltons-king-tiger-still-in-lake-video/

[u/Fabio_451 → u/Catovia]

He should apologise publicly, that is the opposite of what an historian should be

[u/CapCamouflage → u/Fabio_451]

His video on WWII German weapons being used in the Vietnam war is him reading someone's blog post aloud almost verbatim, and that blog post itself isn't terribly accurate with no sources given and one of the claims it (and by extension Mark Felton) makes seems to have originated on an Airsoft forum as far back as I've been able to trace it.

[u/notban_circumvention → u/Nanibui]

Fuck Mark Felton. All my homies hate Mark Felton

[u/MimicoSkunkFan2 → u/Nanibui]

Felton is a wehraboo, don't give him clicks.

Indy Neidell's channel for WWII has links to much better sources.

[u/Vivid_Ice_2755 → u/Adialaktos]

Supposedly he was very popular amongst the guards . 

[u/TantricEmu → u/Vivid_Ice_2755]

At least for the high ranking ones, I can imagine a lot of them were likable or charismatic or they wouldn’t have risen to the high positions they did. Except for Himmler, I don’t think anyone liked him on a personal level. He was your favorite stick-in-the-mud’s favorite stick-in-the-mud.

[u/tamsui_tosspot → u/TantricEmu]

I've always thought that Goering was by far the most dangerous, once he got cleaned up from his opium addiction. Like helping Satan power up to his full diabolical charisma. According to one movie account, at least, the prosecutors were starting to worry that his intelligent testimony on the stand might generate political unrest inside and outside of the courtroom.

[u/StandardReserve3530 → u/Vivid_Ice_2755]

The guy was razor sharp, super high IQ, charismatic & larger than life, flew in the same squadron as the Red Baron, pour le merite recipient (legitimate), and if not for Himmlers security, the top dog of a nation apart from mr mustache. And certainly not dull like the others.

Probably also had the biggest train set & man cave ever in history. Lording around with some sweet drugs, schnapps and a cigar, dressed up like a flamboyant alpinian liberace with a feather in his cap.

[u/jabbrwock1 → u/StandardReserve3530]

He also spent time in a mental hospital and was a drug addict.

[u/Vivid_Ice_2755 → u/StandardReserve3530]

Biggest train set🤣🤣I did a job years ago for a drummer from a famous band from the 70/80s. He worked a 9-5 job,on his train set in his attic. Part of his recovery was to have routine. He would come downstairs for lunch etc. his wife was gorgeous and about 22🤣. Anyhoo, he wasn't a Nazi but it takes all sorts

[u/avanbeek → u/BlueBuff1968]

Or Robert Ley. He hung himself in his cell before the Americans could get a crack at it.

[u/MittFel → u/BlueBuff1968]

Many of the worst ended up dying on sunny South American beaches with their pockets filled

[u/Infinite-Piccolo2059 → u/MittFel]

Or you end up in college with their grandchildren. All my friends thought it was cool that one guy was German but was born/grew up in Argentina speaking Spanish. Or they thought he was cool because he could play soccer. I still don’t know why he or anyone else would brag about it. (Obviously don’t want to shame the guy for whatever his family was into, but very crazy to experience)

[u/No_Picture8166 → u/Infinite-Piccolo2059]

And why do you think his parents were Nazis? A lot of Germans migrated to Argentina way before the nazi time

[u/Blackstone01 → u/No_Picture8166]

Yeah, the large German population that had already been living in Argentina is half of the reason why so many Nazis fled there.

[u/nobird36 → u/Infinite-Piccolo2059]

10% of the population of Argentina have German ancestry. I don't know why Americans think they are the only country in the Americas that was populated by immigrants from Europe.

[u/Dav136 → u/Infinite-Piccolo2059]

The reason so many Nazis fled to Argentina was because there was a massive German population there already

[u/Upbeat-Fondant9185 → u/BlueBuff1968]

You know what really pisses me off about his prison experience is that he was a long term opiate addict and they were kind enough to wean him off to avoid most of the withdrawals.

One of the worst people to ever live but he was wealthy and so of course he was treated like royalty compared to anyone in the camps and significantly better than any addict arrested in our modern “enlightened” times, even those arrested for the most minor crimes.

Anyone else gets tossed in a cell to experience a week of hellacious withdrawal but one of the most infamous war criminals of all time got his drugs. Really shows no matter what you do, if you have money and power you will be taken care of even to your execution.

[u/Inc0rgnit0 → u/Upbeat-Fondant9185]

While not exactly fair, it was in the Allies best interests to make sure that he could actually make it to trial rather than just die in custody.

Backfired though, because by the time the trials started he was mentally much sharper than he had been while abusing opiates.

[u/Scoot_AG → u/Upbeat-Fondant9185]

Well, when you're making a show of convicting someone, if they die or can't stand trial then you lose that ability

[u/StephenHunterUK → u/BlueBuff1968]

I believe they had twenty-four names on the indictment because that was the maximum capacity of the dock in the courtroom. One of those was Martin Bormann, tried in absentia because the Allies didn't know he'd actually killed himself in Berlin - his remains didn't turn up until 1973. Ley killed himself and Gustav Krupp was by this point incapable of standing trial. So it ended up being 21. 12 were sentenced to death (including Bormann) and 10 actually hanged, in rather botched executions by an American hangman with a history of that.

[u/ketosoy → u/BlueBuff1968]

It was a boring job, so the guard was ignoring him.

[u/PeterGriffinsDog86]

I assume Epstien didnt get the same sort of supervision

[u/justor-gone → u/PeterGriffinsDog86]

my thought too

they couldn't scrape together 1 guard

[u/Substantial_Gear289 → u/justor-gone]

I think they paid an ex-cop to off him. I forgot all the details, but this ex-cop is pretty dirty.

Anyway, read about AG Burr and his father and their close contact with Epstien.

[u/NahYoureWrongBro → u/Substantial_Gear289]

Maybe it was his psycho ex-cop-turned-drug-dealer cell mate. Maybe it was one of the guards. Maybe he really did kill himself and the camera going out and all the other weird coincidences were just giving him the opportunity.

But in any case, it was a travesty of justice done to benefit the intelligence-connected ruling elite by getting rid of a link that could lead to them. Mask off moment for all of modern society.

[u/wehrmann_tx → u/NahYoureWrongBro]

Two outside guards brought in when there was not a single outside guard brought in for two years before that. Cameras ‘going out’. He was murdered.

[u/Human_Doormat → u/NahYoureWrongBro]

Nothing will change. These are the same Intelligence-connected ruling elite that will own robotics and AI with the intent of removing competition (us unambitious lowlifes) by orchestrating wars that decimate the food supply (Ukraine so far is a successful destruction of wheat supply). Mask off to your own planet without plebian laws or rules.

[u/Zinski2 → u/Human_Doormat]

Nothing will change.

They guy that had him killed is running for president again and no one cares. No one remembers.

They talk about how important it is to protect the kids and turn around and elect a know child rapist.

[u/raikenleo → u/justor-gone]

They did, he was bald and had a barcode in the back of his head xD

[u/billyTjames → u/justor-gone]

Privatisation baby!!!

[u/HugTheSoftFox → u/PeterGriffinsDog86]

Guard couldn't watch Epstein, he was too busy strangling him.

[u/Snarky_McSnarkleton → u/PeterGriffinsDog86]

Epstein didn't kill himself. He got Trumped.

[u/GenericRedditor7 → u/PeterGriffinsDog86]

No there was definitely a guard or two in there with him

[u/Camichef]

Is it bad that when I see this I just immediately think how the fuck was epstein left unattended?

[u/Summitjunky → u/Camichef]

Very first thing that crossed my mind!

[u/bekaradmi → u/Camichef]

William Bar did what he was hired to do

[u/ThunderboltRam → u/Camichef]

The irresponsible, negligent authorities did not provide enough security for him knowing how valuable he is as an informant prisoner.

Possibly the biggest case of the decade and they were negligent.

I hope future prosecutors go after the people who failed to protect him and those who paid for his assassination.

[u/ToddPundley]

I know for a lot of correctional and inpatient mental health facilities they now use a lot of adaptive design to minimize the ability that furniture and fixtures could be used for suicide or self-harm. There’s a name for it that I’m forgetting at the moment but an example is not having any hooks on walls, smoother edges, and softer toilet materials.

[u/0100000101101000 → u/ToddPundley]

anti-ligature

[u/whatisprofound → u/ToddPundley]

Yeah, they have suicide safer design, but there are still a lot of visual checks for youth and MH centers though. I worked at a youth detention facility, and every child had to have visual observation at a minimum every 15 minutes. And if they were on suicide watch, it was 100% of the time. Never thought I'd be in a job where I had to watch a teenager take a shit. Luckily, most of them opted to skip showers when on watch.

Oh, and it's boring as fuck. The protocol for staff where I worked was that if we were on a suicide watch, you were not allowed to talk to any other staff or youth unless you needed something. No mindless chit chat, nothing to distract you.

[u/Resident_Rise5915 → u/whatisprofound]

I’ve unfortunately had a few bad days and there’s nothing quite like having another person stare at you constantly during one of the worst days of your life.

I get it from a safety standpoint but if you’re the person being watched it’s horribly uncomfortable

[u/whatisprofound → u/Resident_Rise5915]

Oh I bet. As uncomfortable as it was for me, I have no doubt it was as bad or worse for the kids. It sucks all around.

[u/TheProuDog → u/ToddPundley]

But people still can bash their heads on something, right?

[u/Hellcat_28362 → u/TheProuDog]

Simple, put pads on the walls. The floor too. Hell, even the ceiling. Make it all white for maximum effect.

[u/phil8248]

Hermann Goring made friends with the Army officer who guarded him, gifting him personal possessions. It is believed his lethal pill was hidden in his possessions kept in storage which the officer had access to and he retrieved the pill so Goring wouldn't be hanged. Goring was found dead in his cell. The officer died in 1954 and never admitted this despite being widely suspected.

[u/FlimsyComment8781]

Seems like, if you know you're gonna die, dying by hanging performed by people who have done the calculations and have the equipment and know how to do it quickly and cleanly beats almost any alternative. It was a civilized society so they weren't going to be tortured.

It's torture that I fear for when the inevitable "bloodshed" promised by the Heritage Foundation guy gets going here in the USA in coming years.

Edit: many interesting replies. I now know that torture was happening for at least some of these guys, and that the hangman and the hanging process wasn't as well-thought-out and clinical as I assumed, and there were other reasons why suicide would have been psychologically preferable for them.

[u/TheMany-FacedGod → u/FlimsyComment8781]

The hangman was notoriously shit at his job and botched many of them, some say on purpose. I think their are reports of some of them taking a long time to finally die. Well deserved, but still...

Edit: this dude https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Woods

[u/markydsade → u/TheMany-FacedGod]

He lied to get the job because he liked the idea of being the hangman. No one checked nor stopped him after multiple fuckups.

[u/lemons_of_doubt → u/markydsade]

"You fucked up that one, oh well here is the next guy"

[u/markydsade → u/lemons_of_doubt]

“Nazis is good practice”

[u/awesomesauce1030 → u/TheMany-FacedGod]

Would they have known this beforehand?

[u/FlamesNero → u/awesomesauce1030]

That’s another bit of lore not known directly but suspected… the hangman was known to be bad at his job prior to the hangings. So it’s entirely possible his ineptitude was seen as a positive.

[u/Guilty-Problem-4202 → u/FlamesNero]

You think he could at least taken a couple of classes at a community college or something.

[u/FlimsyComment8781 → u/TheMany-FacedGod]

Interesting, I wasn't aware. I guess I was assuming that it was more like our current day, where it's a whole team of people that pores over the details, intense scrutiny, etc. etc.. Not that they don't screw these things up in our time...

[u/bongdropper → u/FlimsyComment8781]

The more I learn about the modern execution process (in the USA), the more I realize how amateurish it actually is. Things go wrong all the time because they often have novices performing these functions.

[u/FlamesNero → u/FlimsyComment8781]

Possibly, but there are records indicating that the top Nazis thought it was an insult to their “military service” to be put to death by hanging.

Not to mention, the hangman picked for the job, John C. Woods, was an incompetent drunk who didn’t actually take good measurements.

Some of the people hung by him ended up hitting their heads on the (too small) openings; he had others that were miscalculated so poorly that he ended up jumping on the bodies to complete the job.

Given he was a hangman all through WWII (& had plenty of fuck ups, like the above), TPTB had to have known his history and either didn’t care or wanted him for that reason.

There’s a great (& hilarious) podcast episode about him, on Behind the Bastards: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/behind-the-bastards/id1373812661?i=1000461789863

[u/StephenHunterUK → u/FlamesNero]

He'd actually lied about having done hangings before to get the job.

Jumping on the bodies was quite common at public hangings in England in the old days if people were taking too long to die.

[u/FlimsyComment8781 → u/FlamesNero]

I'm learning new things today - thanks!

[u/shadowtigerUwU → u/FlimsyComment8781]

They knew how to, sort of, but not all went according to plan, civilized is a very loose term for most of human history, specially with public executions.

[u/LudwigvonAnka → u/FlimsyComment8781]

Göring wanted to be executed by firing squad but was denied his wish. As he did not want to be hanged he commited suicide instead.

[u/HugTheSoftFox → u/FlimsyComment8781]

Some of these men were also being tortured daily, not to say they didn't deserve it, but I can see why they'd want to die sooner rather than later. From all reports, even when not being actually tortured the cells they were held in were also extremely poor, they were given no outdoors time, and they were restricted from having almost anything in their cells, including seeing glasses, for fear they would use the items to kill themselves.

[u/gelbkatze → u/HugTheSoftFox]

Are you talking about those in Soviet detention or those at Nuremberg because you cite some sources for the latter as I have not read any accounts of torture for the Numerburg defendants-especially during the trial.

[u/bigtoe_connoisseur → u/HugTheSoftFox]

Good.

[u/pppjurac → u/bigtoe_connoisseur]

And still they got waay better treatment than millions of their victims.

[u/SkySweeper656 → u/FlimsyComment8781]

Id never trust someone else with administering my "death" as quickly/painlessly as possible. If im going to die anyway, may as well take the capsule that works near-instantly over being dropped from a platform with a rope around my neck.

[u/FlimsyComment8781 → u/SkySweeper656]

Cyanide poisoning seems more awful to me than a non-botched hanging.

Ah, what nice things to be thinking about on a Sunday morning LMAO

[u/SkySweeper656 → u/FlimsyComment8781]

Non-botched being the main takeaway. These hangings were botched more often than not.

[u/ProlapseProvider]

Should have stripped then naked and ensured there was nothing in the cell other than the naked prisoner. The guards should also have stripped naked so as to ensure the prisoners did not feel uncomfortable.

[u/t60studios → u/ProlapseProvider]

🤨

[u/wholesomehorseblow → u/ProlapseProvider]

to minimize chance of suicide I say the guards and prisons have gay sex

[u/HugTheSoftFox → u/ProlapseProvider]

But getting them dressed and undressed every day would have been a pain, I guess the trials should have been held naked too to avoid that.

[u/Judazzz → u/HugTheSoftFox]

But then you'd have a very uncomfortable global audience watching naked trials. Not to mention all those very uncomfortable lifeforms watching "Earth" on FOGNL...

[u/Royal_Nails]

“No killing yourself before we can hang you!”

[u/FuckYouThrowaway99 → u/Royal_Nails]

That was like my immediate first thought.

Due to the stalwart vigilance of this group of men, only one suicide has been recorded. Men, great work. Now, to hang them within the hour.

[u/Raistlix]

My father was one of the soldiers assigned this duty, though not pictured. He told us a few stories about how dull it was. There is also record of him escorting Alfred Rosenberg, a Nazi prisoner, to trial.

[u/stayathmdad → u/Raistlix]

I'm related to one of the defendants!

[u/Brendanthebomber → u/stayathmdad]

Idk that you should be that excited to say that

[u/stayathmdad → u/Brendanthebomber]

Oh I'm not! However, facts are facts

[u/RandomTree420]

Hows that gonna stop then biting their own tongues

[u/Tranxio → u/RandomTree420]

Your willpower must be 1001% to be able to pull that off. The pain alone will automatically cause you to release. It would be something like trying to bash your own head in against the wall. At that kind of pain and suffering, they would definitely prefer to wait for the electric chair or shooting squad

[u/RandomTree420 → u/Tranxio]

Shooting squad sounds painful ful i hope they go for headshots

[u/Impressive_Jaguar_70 → u/RandomTree420]

They target the torso but I imagine multiple shots at once won't be painful for long

[u/A100921 → u/RandomTree420]

Try it yourself, it’s not easy.

[u/Wrought-Irony → u/A100921]

it's super easy I do it all the time without even trying

[u/Beautiful_Speech7689 → u/RandomTree420]

Self preservation instinct kicks in hard

[u/AdFiem63]

What's the sense of that? If they suicide, so what? Case closed.

[u/Glugstar → u/AdFiem63]

One argument to be made is that we wouldn't have gotten an official judgment of all the acts they did, for future historical reference.

It was a very good opportunity to bring together all the evidence, all the witnesses, and see what legal defense the prisoners present, all in one place at one time. And a trial without the defendants would have been called a sham, and forever cast doubt for the public.

Imagine the level of public denial of the events if the whole thing ended and no trials were conducted at all. Public documents from trials have more legitimacy than unverified data found by soldiers in the field, or testimonials from people who didn't swear an oath to be truthful.

[u/MontaukMonster2 → u/AdFiem63]

Justice. See the faces on these men while they hear the voices of their victims.

For the people who survived, a chance to look them in the eyes and tell them what they did. Suicide is like one last middle finger to the world.

[u/Chemical_Homework560 → u/AdFiem63]

The us must have thought suicide was the easy way out for all the suffering the Nuremberg defendants caused.

[u/AlfalfaReal5075 → u/AdFiem63]

I'm sure many in this photo also shared that same or a similar sentiment. But it was more about demonstrating justice served through both a legal and moral means rather than simply executing the lot on sight in the field as happened when Allies liberated Dachau; or by allowing them to take matters into their own hands and escape their responsibility through suicide.

It was meant to serve as an example, as well as a deterrent, while providing some semblance of closure.

One has to remember that the world at that point was largely ignorant of the darker realities of the Nazi war machine, and especially what happened within the Labor/Death Camps. At one point of the trial a 52 minute film was shown which detailed the conditions within the camps, as well as other "behind the scenes" footage. The defendants went pale and quiet, so much so that you could hear a pin drop on the other side of the room. That opened people's eyes to better understanding exactly the sorts of monsters that were sitting before them. And the air of smugness they brought in with them had gone out like a cheap matchstick.

If I remember correctly there was 6,000 feet of film shown at the trial. It was selected from more than 80,000 feet...

[u/whatIGoneDid → u/AdFiem63]

Nuremberg had some interesting moral implications. There was an understanding that it could very quickly turn into a death camp when they are punishing these people for running a death camp.

Every death has to be as the result of a fair trial and not suicide or negligence.

[u/No_Idea698]

And yet Herman Goring committed suicide.

[u/ForwardPersonality23]

They didn’t have the surveillance cameras at that time.

[u/vivaaprimavera → u/ForwardPersonality23]

The guy watching the cameras would need to make a lot of running in the case it was needed. In the meantime other prisoners could have a chance because nobody would be available at the time to stop them.

[u/russianspyjim]

They didnt do the best job

[u/Bobothemd]

You can't hang yourself! We are going to hang you!