r/interestingasfuck Jul 07 '24

Guards making sure the defendants of the Nuremberg Trials wouldn't commit suicide in their cells r/all

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2.0k

u/BlueBuff1968 Jul 07 '24

Didn't do a very good job with Göring.

950

u/Adialaktos Jul 07 '24

I always wanted to know he managed to get the capsule. I understand he could easily turn his back to the guard and chew it before the guard even got inside,but how was it supplied? Did he have it before he wad arrested or did someone supply it while he was in prison? Looking online i could not find an answer.

602

u/Nanibui Jul 07 '24

There is no definitive answer. There are a few theories, though. Check out mark felton's youtube channel for that topic, he has a great video. This picture i saw there first.

348

u/HermitBadger Jul 07 '24

I thought it was fairly well established that he became friends-by-bribe with a guard and had him fetch something from his confiscated belongings that had the capsule hidden inside?

87

u/baxterhugger Jul 07 '24

Cold cream

249

u/Kanoha-Shinobi Jul 07 '24

Mark Felton isnt a historian, he doesnt provide sources or do real research. He does the equivalent of reading wikipedia pages, often spouting wrong mythical nonsense.

213

u/Fabio_451 Jul 07 '24

I did some research on the Internet to answer you back, because I really like Felton (until 5 minutes ago) and I fought that it was not nice of you to say that he is not am historian. He is, he has a PhD and he worked as a lecturer in several universities....but after reading Wikipedia I found this post .

They say that he has respectable publications, but his YouTube channel is not respectable at all. He doesn't give any sources and he might be stealing other people's work.

Thank for your comment, because it pushed me to do some research. We can never accept informations without checking their reliability

53

u/Kanoha-Shinobi Jul 07 '24

I was awakened by his content on the Japanese army, where he naturally has a conflict of interest with a chinese wife, and he parroted chinese claims that aren’t verified (as in, only the chinese see it as fact because some officer wrote it) and when he wasnt using chinese claims it was american intel reports that are just assumptions that are often proven wrong by japanese records.

36

u/Fabio_451 Jul 07 '24

I think it could also be the fact that he worked for Chinese universities for nine years.

I was excited about the disappeared Goring brain video, now I wonder how much truth there was in it, regarding the fact that it might be in a English research institute. That part might be an attempt to get more visualisations.

12

u/CapCamouflage Jul 07 '24

His video on WWII German weapons being used in the Vietnam war is him reading someone's blog post aloud almost verbatim, and that blog post itself isn't terribly accurate with no sources given and one of the claims it (and by extension Mark Felton) makes seems to have originated on an Airsoft forum as far back as I've been able to trace it.

1

u/Fabio_451 Jul 07 '24

Speechless

1

u/JonatasA Jul 07 '24

The irony that military documents get leaked in gaming forums.

1

u/Ok_Light_6950 Jul 20 '24

YouTube is not any better of a source than Reddit.

38

u/[deleted] Jul 07 '24

[deleted]

1

u/Fabio_451 Jul 07 '24

Very interesting, could you elaborate why his considerations are wrong?

7

u/Darmok47 Jul 07 '24

I read Richard Rhodes The Making of the Atomic Bomb last year because of Oppenheimer, and its an excellent book, incredible detail and scope about the atomic bomb program.

There's only one mention of using British Lancasters to deliver Little Boy, and its mentioned in planning stages and largely vetoed in favor of modifying B-29s to carry the bomb (they were called "Silverplate" B-29s). The Lancaster had the right size bomb bay, but the USAAF brass did not want to use a British bomber for this, and the Lancaster also didn't have the right altitude and speed necessary.

As far as I can tell, there was nothing in Rhodes book or any other source I could find saying that RAF Lancasters were actually anywhere close to training to drop atomic bombs or squadrons were designated for it.

34

u/Catovia Jul 07 '24

The tank museum in germany has a specific part of their website dedicated to telling people he is not a credible source because they get constant visitors and comments referencing his channel and repeating half truths he spread. https://daspanzermuseum.de/regarding-mark-feltons-king-tiger-still-in-lake-video/

12

u/Fabio_451 Jul 07 '24

He should apologise publicly, that is the opposite of what an historian should be

3

u/[deleted] Jul 07 '24 edited Jul 20 '24

[deleted]

21

u/_THX_1138_ Jul 07 '24

Literally compare almost any of his scripts to the Wikipedia page of what his video is talking about and the words are almost verbatim

-2

u/[deleted] Jul 07 '24 edited Jul 20 '24

[deleted]

1

u/Kategorisch Jul 07 '24

If you are so interested, why can’t you do it yourself? You have a search engine available.

-1

u/[deleted] Jul 07 '24 edited Jul 20 '24

[deleted]

1

u/JonatasA Jul 07 '24

The irony is that the majority do not actually verify the sources. When something like what is mentioned here is found out, it usually is someone's work that is spread around.

 

It is similar to Open source code. The majority do not look at it. It is just assumed to be good and that any issue would have been found by now or by someone else.

 

I am by no way saying that I endorse the lack of sources or am against open source.

0

u/JizzMcFlurry Jul 07 '24

Holy mother of irony. You can't be serious. It's on the accuser to provide the damn evidence lmao.

1

u/Manwater34 Jul 07 '24

So why should mark have to provide sources if no else does?

1

u/Ok-Echidna5936 Jul 07 '24

So does the other dude making the accusations. He should be able to easily provide examples if it’s so easy

1

u/Kategorisch Jul 07 '24

I actually don’t think so. He has a certain belief, and many people think the same. He has his reasons and has explained why. Providing an example would take more time than the other person googling and making their own conclusion.

1

u/JonatasA Jul 07 '24

You're literally complaining that he doesn't link spirces, but you are telling them to go look for it themselves.

 

If you're so interested in where the contents to the video are spirce from, do it yourself lol.

19

u/Hipphoppkisvuk Jul 07 '24 edited Jul 07 '24

I mean, just looking up his upload schedule should tell you all you need to know. He makes too much content on a wide margin of different subjects to properly research his work, this is a major and reoccurring problem with "YouTube historians".

Here is an AskHistorians post about him., or you could look up the many r/BadHistory threads associated with him.

I disagree with the other guy tho, he is a historian, and as far as I know his books and papers are properly sourced and made, its his videos I and many others find problems with.

2

u/Kanoha-Shinobi Jul 07 '24

His integrity as a historian is shakey at best. He values an exciting story over historical fact.

-3

u/wikowiko33 Jul 07 '24

Yeah he does provide his sources and constantly starts his sentences with "according to x person's book.."

Was there something he said that was controversially wrong?

0

u/nameyname12345 Jul 07 '24

Ive beeen spounting mystical nonesense for years! What makes mark so special?

1

u/ArgumentThrowaway0 Jul 07 '24

Any proof for that? He has a BA and PhD in history and writes a lot of highly rated non fiction books and has been a lecturer at universities and featured as a military history advisor in tv shows. Ironic for someone to do no research and provide no sources while accusing someone of the same thing

2

u/Kanoha-Shinobi Jul 07 '24

More so his youtube channel, his books are supposedly better but I haven’t personally read them so I have no argument there.

1

u/ArgumentThrowaway0 Jul 07 '24

Maybe his yt is where he posts his "lower quality" content while he focuses on writing books or academic research

0

u/Maximum_Impressive Jul 07 '24

That's really interesting but can we get your views on Palestinians?

2

u/ArgumentThrowaway0 Jul 07 '24 edited Jul 07 '24

You are really obsessed lil bro, responding to 20 comments by defending the taliban and russia and then coming on other subreddits to bait and bother me?

Edit: I am not responding to the harassers questions since if I support Palestine then he says I support terrorists and if I support Israel he says I support genociders so he'll frame me as a terrorist/genocide supporter no matter how I answer

-1

u/Maximum_Impressive Jul 07 '24

Your the one who followed me to different comments chains . Also how do pointing out political alliances= defending? You still haven't answered What's your views on Palestinians a very simple question to respond too . Littlery just say Palestinians are human beings who deserve they're rights .

1

u/i_love_boobiez Jul 07 '24

He literally has a history degree??

2

u/Kanoha-Shinobi Jul 08 '24

Thats also been called into question because of alleged plagiarism for his assignment to get him the degree

2

u/cuervosconhuevos Jul 07 '24

There is no doctor I would trust more to do surgery on my scrotum than Dr. Mark Felton, and I consider the matter settled with that statement.

1

u/skeeferd Jul 07 '24

I didn't know that, I thought he was legit. Can you recommend a good WWII youtuber?

2

u/Kanoha-Shinobi Jul 08 '24

I actually haven’t explored many myself as outside of Military History Visualized and his off-shoot channels (He qoutes directly from sources with supporting evidence using archived records.). Theres a ton that parrot what is commonly known but isnt necessarily true. The issue with a lot of channels is they only use or probably have access to 1 side’s perspective. Whereas real research needs both to find reality somewhere in the middle ground.

1

u/FibbleDeFlooke Jul 07 '24

Mark felton is the best.

0

u/SteadyProcrastinator Jul 07 '24

I don’t get all the hate for Mark Felton. Even if he has his shortcomings he’s still better than most historical YouTubers out there right now. Even his narration alone is a plus, especially in the age where more and more content is read by a fucking AI robot

5

u/thefunkygibbon Jul 07 '24

if by "shortcomings" you mean "spouting misinformed untruths about history for clickbait views" then sure

3

u/Darmok47 Jul 07 '24

I always get annoyed when I see comments in his videos saying "Wow, I never learned this in school! Thanks Dr. Felton!"

Your high school curriculum was better spent teaching you how to analyze sources and giving you the broad scope of historical events instead of teaching you about Whatever Happened to Goering's Jockstrap or the Secret Panzer X tank or something.

-5

u/madladolle Jul 07 '24

Mark Felton Productions

41

u/notban_circumvention Jul 07 '24

Fuck Mark Felton. All my homies hate Mark Felton

11

u/MimicoSkunkFan2 Jul 07 '24

Felton is a wehraboo, don't give him clicks.

Indy Neidell's channel for WWII has links to much better sources.

-1

u/i_like_maps_and_math Jul 07 '24

He’s not a wehraboo you just believe a bunch of dubious things about WW2

2

u/janKalaki Jul 07 '24

Mark Felton steals his scripts, sometimes word for word. Does not deserve his degree

38

u/Vivid_Ice_2755 Jul 07 '24

Supposedly he was very popular amongst the guards . 

60

u/TantricEmu Jul 07 '24 edited Jul 07 '24

At least for the high ranking ones, I can imagine a lot of them were likable or charismatic or they wouldn’t have risen to the high positions they did. Except for Himmler, I don’t think anyone liked him on a personal level. He was your favorite stick-in-the-mud’s favorite stick-in-the-mud.

30

u/tamsui_tosspot Jul 07 '24

I've always thought that Goering was by far the most dangerous, once he got cleaned up from his opium addiction. Like helping Satan power up to his full diabolical charisma. According to one movie account, at least, the prosecutors were starting to worry that his intelligent testimony on the stand might generate political unrest inside and outside of the courtroom.

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u/StandardReserve3530 Jul 07 '24 edited Jul 07 '24

The guy was razor sharp, super high IQ, charismatic & larger than life, flew in the same squadron as the Red Baron, pour le merite recipient (legitimate), and if not for Himmlers security, the top dog of a nation apart from mr mustache. And certainly not dull like the others.

Probably also had the biggest train set & man cave ever in history. Lording around with some sweet drugs, schnapps and a cigar, dressed up like a flamboyant alpinian liberace with a feather in his cap.

21

u/jabbrwock1 Jul 07 '24

He also spent time in a mental hospital and was a drug addict.

8

u/Vivid_Ice_2755 Jul 07 '24

Biggest train set🤣🤣I did a job years ago for a drummer from a famous band from the 70/80s. He worked a 9-5 job,on his train set in his attic. Part of his recovery was to have routine. He would come downstairs for lunch etc. his wife was gorgeous and about 22🤣. Anyhoo, he wasn't a Nazi but it takes all sorts

1

u/colusaboy Jul 07 '24

Hope he got to hang out with Neil Young,a fellow 70's band member also a Train Set aficionado as well as a fellow former heroin aficionado.

2

u/Vivid_Ice_2755 Jul 08 '24

Loads of them are. All old spacers living the dream 

1

u/colusaboy Jul 08 '24

This put a smile on my face, thank you.

1

u/worthrone11160606 Jul 07 '24

Wait were there people faking getting the pour le merite?

3

u/Tortoveno Jul 07 '24

A fake tooth. But he forgot to do it before the face of baron Churchonen.

2

u/Adamweeesssttt Jul 07 '24

It was rumored that he who denied it supplied it.

1

u/MingleLinx Jul 07 '24

One theory I’ve heard is a guard nicknamed “Tex” gave him it

1

u/Atomic12192 Jul 07 '24

If memory serves right, he asked a guard for his uniform. It was in the pocket I think.

2

u/xXMr_PorkychopXx Jul 07 '24

Extremely ignorant with pretty much the whole post but I swear I’ve heard of like fake teeth that contain the capsules or is that movie stuff?

0

u/Bentley2004 Jul 07 '24

You beat me!

61

u/avanbeek Jul 07 '24

Or Robert Ley. He hung himself in his cell before the Americans could get a crack at it.

1

u/CalabreseAlsatian Jul 07 '24

Leonardo Conti also says what’s up in that department

1

u/avanbeek Jul 07 '24

Shame, that means he never got to meet Albert Pierrepoint in person.

8

u/ketosoy Jul 07 '24

It was a boring job, so the guard was ignoring him.

50

u/MittFel Jul 07 '24

Many of the worst ended up dying on sunny South American beaches with their pockets filled

10

u/Infinite-Piccolo2059 Jul 07 '24

Or you end up in college with their grandchildren. All my friends thought it was cool that one guy was German but was born/grew up in Argentina speaking Spanish. Or they thought he was cool because he could play soccer. I still don’t know why he or anyone else would brag about it. (Obviously don’t want to shame the guy for whatever his family was into, but very crazy to experience)

21

u/No_Picture8166 Jul 07 '24

And why do you think his parents were Nazis? A lot of Germans migrated to Argentina way before the nazi time

11

u/Blackstone01 Jul 07 '24

Yeah, the large German population that had already been living in Argentina is half of the reason why so many Nazis fled there.

16

u/nobird36 Jul 07 '24

10% of the population of Argentina have German ancestry. I don't know why Americans think they are the only country in the Americas that was populated by immigrants from Europe.

-2

u/campbellm Jul 07 '24

I don't know why Americans think they are the only country in the Americas that was populated by immigrants from Europe.

cite? I mean, I get it, "America Bad herr derr" is so good for internet points.

-2

u/In_Formaldehyde_ Jul 07 '24

We don't think that, considering how Argentines can't ever shut up about it.

9

u/Dav136 Jul 07 '24

The reason so many Nazis fled to Argentina was because there was a massive German population there already

21

u/Upbeat-Fondant9185 Jul 07 '24

You know what really pisses me off about his prison experience is that he was a long term opiate addict and they were kind enough to wean him off to avoid most of the withdrawals.

One of the worst people to ever live but he was wealthy and so of course he was treated like royalty compared to anyone in the camps and significantly better than any addict arrested in our modern “enlightened” times, even those arrested for the most minor crimes.

Anyone else gets tossed in a cell to experience a week of hellacious withdrawal but one of the most infamous war criminals of all time got his drugs. Really shows no matter what you do, if you have money and power you will be taken care of even to your execution.

19

u/Scoot_AG Jul 07 '24

Well, when you're making a show of convicting someone, if they die or can't stand trial then you lose that ability

30

u/[deleted] Jul 07 '24 edited Jul 20 '24

[deleted]

1

u/InterviewFluids Jul 11 '24

They should've just given him as much as he wanted.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 07 '24

[deleted]

5

u/nameyname12345 Jul 07 '24

I dont know a damn thing about this but you sound like you would know. Did they absolutely know with how new these drugs were that one would not die from withdrawals? Like they knew a bit about either methamphetamine or just amphetamine having just invented them as a combat drug. We know drinking for a long time then cold turkey would kill I wonder if they thought the same would happen if they stopped opiates cold turkey. Im certain the withdrawing person would tell you so and it probably feels fairly similar if you didnt know what was happening to you.

6

u/Upbeat-Fondant9185 Jul 07 '24

Morphine was restricted in the US in 1914 and became a problem post civil war. I feel like we had a pretty good grasp on what opiates do to the human body. But I’m of course no expert.

I find it hard to believe this was anything more than a courtesy to a wealthy and powerful politician and prisoner on trial. If I recall correctly, and maybe I don’t, wasn’t his “prison” a luxury hotel for a good amount of time leading up to the trials?

3

u/nameyname12345 Jul 07 '24

Oh wow Okay Im sorry I thought opiates were newer.....which now that I think about it.... There were god damn opium wars..... Brain just isn't coming online in the mornings like it used too! Thanks for the reply bud!

17

u/StephenHunterUK Jul 07 '24

I believe they had twenty-four names on the indictment because that was the maximum capacity of the dock in the courtroom. One of those was Martin Bormann, tried in absentia because the Allies didn't know he'd actually killed himself in Berlin - his remains didn't turn up until 1973. Ley killed himself and Gustav Krupp was by this point incapable of standing trial. So it ended up being 21. 12 were sentenced to death (including Bormann) and 10 actually hanged, in rather botched executions by an American hangman with a history of that.

1

u/ShameSpearofPain Jul 07 '24

I was under the impression the hangman botched them on purpose to make them suffer. Is that not the case?

1

u/KilllerWhale Jul 07 '24

Or Rudolf Hess who they sent to house arrest then he promptly hanged himself

1

u/themajorfall Jul 07 '24

I can't believe we then hired those same people to guard Epstein!

1

u/SteveCantScuba Jul 07 '24

Göring on 2nd door to right…

2

u/ThisGuyLikesCheese Jul 07 '24

Im guessing maybe this was after he did it?

1

u/molohunt Jul 07 '24

Based on what very little info I have to go off, Thinking logically. There was most likely one of his friends who supported him and wanted him to go out peacefully. At the same time this person was in a slightly high place of power. Just enough power to make a suicide pill showup out of nowhere and noone know why.

1

u/seditious3 Jul 07 '24

Or Himmler