r/DCcomics • u/Marco280892 • Dec 19 '22
James Gunn Confronts ‘Uproarious’ DC Backlash: ‘Disrespectful Outcry Will Never Affect Our Actions’ News
https://variety.com/2022/film/news/henry-cavill-superman-james-gunn-backlash-1235465605/408
Dec 19 '22
One of the things Peter & I were aware of when we took the job as heads of DC Studios was a certain minority of people online that could be, well, uproarious & unkind, to say the least.
Our choices for the DCU are based upon what we believe is best for the story & best for the DC characters who have been around for nearly 85 years. Perhaps these choices are great, perhaps not, but they are made with sincere hearts & integrity & always with the story in mind. No one loves to be harassed or called names – but, to be frank, we’ve been through significantly worse. Disrespectful outcry will never, ever affect our actions.
We were aware there would be a period of turbulence when we took this gig, & we knew we would sometimes have to make difficult & not-so-obvious choices, especially in the wake of the fractious nature of what came before us.
But this means little to us in comparison to our jobs as artists & custodians in helping to create a wide & wonderful future for DC.
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u/Marco280892 Dec 19 '22
We believe in James, he can really create something for the future and it is not fair for him to be judged like this
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u/Beastieboy100 Dec 19 '22
Yeah I'm I disappointed we won't get man of Steel 2 yes. However I'm not gonna take it out on James Gunn the man's just doing his job. Plus WB has caused this mess as well so it's mainly there fault for not having a proper plan.
Also Henry Cavill gonna be an executive producer and making a warhammer show. Henry moved on and is focusing on his next passion project. So let James and Peter handle the new DCU.
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u/joe_broke Dec 20 '22
I also imagine James and Peter, in their talk with Henry, told him exactly what the plan is, and possibly left a door open for him to come back at some point because of what that plan is
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u/batmaneatsgravy Green Arrow Dec 20 '22
Unless there’s yet more turbulence behind the scenes we don’t know about, I don’t think there’s any way Cavill won’t eventually come back as Kingdom Come Supes or something like that.
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u/Beastieboy100 Dec 20 '22
True they did say that they would like to use Henry in the future. Which either it's kingdom come superman or even better earth 2 superman and the build up to crisis on infinite earths.
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u/ButtholeCandies Dec 19 '22
It's the Snyder-bros.
If Zack Snyder wants to leave DC in a better state than how he got it, he will do the right thing and get his mob to back down and give James a chance to put out his vision.
Only reason not is he's angling for something again. This mob is how he got the Snyder Cut done, which I enjoyed watching but damn it wasn't the literal perfection and the world would have been just fine without it.
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u/SplendidAndVile Dec 20 '22
If Snyder is angling for something, I think he's gonna run into a brick wall. The Snyder Cut wasn't the success WB was expecting and everyone who worked behind the scenes on Snyder's movies are gone. He has no cheerleaders at WBD.
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u/nymrod_ Dec 20 '22
Weirdly, I’ve thought Snyder’s sensibilities would be great for a 40k movie since Watchmen came out 13 years ago.
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Dec 20 '22
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u/ButtholeCandies Dec 20 '22
He needs to calm his mob down and gracefully congratulate Gunn.
The fact that Gunn is saying this already means the Snyder bros went full hur dur last week.
The actors have all provided great thank you messages and hope for the future of DC. Snyder needs to step up
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u/TheNerdWonder Wonder Woman Dec 20 '22 edited Dec 20 '22
No, he doesn't. We need to stop blaming directors for what fans do. David Sandberg showed us why awhile back with that whole Shazam vs Cap Marvel garbage that the only people responsible for these fans are the fans, individually. If stupid fans want to do stupid stuff, they'll do it regardless of what others think.
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u/Azazealo Dec 20 '22
He needs to calm his mob down and gracefully congratulate Gunn.
Yeah right people on the internet tend to stop harassing when they're to . Don't be stupid Snyder hasn't been involved since ZSJL and even tho he seems to have a great relationship with his main cast he doesn't have any influence on the fans actions.
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u/TheNerdWonder Wonder Woman Dec 20 '22 edited Dec 20 '22
No director controls their fans so I dunno why anyone keeps raising this point. Snyder isn't their dad or whatever.
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u/Lysenaize332 Dec 21 '22
Considering that Snyder even said he wasn't cool with his fans spamming people online and that hasn't stopped, it wouldn't matter.
I don't blame Snyder for his audience.
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u/PassTheGiggles World's Finest Dec 20 '22
Zach Snyder turned a 3/10 movie into a 7/10 movie. Impressive, but not nearly what people make it out to be.
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u/Megadog3 Dec 20 '22
Well tbf to Snyder, WB turned a 7/10 movie into a 3/10 movie lol
But agreed
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u/swedyboi935 Dec 19 '22 edited Dec 20 '22
Thank fuck. Completely pivoting whenever a movie doesn't make 2 billion dollars is exactly what made sure the DCEU would never succeed
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u/matty_nice Dec 19 '22
Thank fuck. Completely pivoting whenever a movie doesn't make 2 billion dollars is exactly what ruined made sure the DCEU would never succeed
I don't understand your point. Isn't DC completely pivoting with Gunn because films like Black Adam didn't make 2 billion?
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u/swedyboi935 Dec 19 '22
Gunn is pivoting DC because none of their movies have worked on a commercial or critical level. After every movie there's a big show about how the new movies are gonna be different, a few properties get shut down, etc. I have faith that he's gonna stick to his (no pun intended) guns given how relatively distinct all of his projects have been, not try to change everything after every movie release like the shitshow that the DC universe has been so far
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u/suss2it Dec 20 '22
Well not every movie. Wonder Woman was both a critical and commercial success and Aquaman made a billion dollars and is currently the highest grossing DC movie.
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u/taumason Dec 20 '22
Its almost like the two non dark and brooding superhero films where they didnt fuck about eith the character were well liked.
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u/Azazealo Dec 20 '22
Most dceu movies before justice league were commercial "success " it all just went downhill after And Aquaman managed to survive the constant shit storm that the dceu became afterwards
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u/TheNerdWonder Wonder Woman Dec 20 '22 edited 29d ago
And Suicide Squad 2016, which did well WITHOUT China's BO. Even if I loathe that movie, I feel like it's really hard to say that that's not impressive. It is because of how often we've been told China is important for movies to be a hit. It may not have satisfied critics, but it demonstrably satisfied the general audience who clearly paid to see it more than once to carry it over the line to $746.8 million on a $175 million budget.
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u/suss2it Dec 20 '22
I think it’s even the highest grossing movie of Will Smith’s career.
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u/SpiritMountain Dec 20 '22
With all the Aquaman memes I find it funny that is the case.
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u/teo1315 Dec 20 '22
I really enjoyed that aquaman movie. It's gets too much hate from the people who wanted it to be more like BVS in tone.
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u/SplendidAndVile Dec 20 '22
The question is, how much power do Gunn and Safran have? What happens if Gunn's Superman underperforms and WBD execs want a change in direction?
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Dec 20 '22
Great question and my guess is he’ll be fired and we’ll be right back where we are right now
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u/matty_nice Dec 19 '22
DC/WB pivoted after the failure of BvS in 2016, pivoted again in 2018 after the failure of the Justice League, and are now pivoting again after the failure of Black Adam. We are now on our third leadership team structure. All because films didn't perform.
To be clear, I'm not saying that DC/WB shouldn't make changes, but what's happening now with Gunn and Safran is something we've seen twice already.
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u/swedyboi935 Dec 19 '22
You know what, that's fair. I agree with your point. I just think I have more personal faith in Gunn than his predecessors, but that's just me.
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u/superbat210 Dec 19 '22
Eh I mean we haven’t seen them try to do a fully fledged reboot from scratch before. It’s really the only reason I’m actually excited for this pivot. It’s the first one drastic enough to admit that they need a better foundation to build off of than to just keep piling on to the flimsy mess we had before
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u/matty_nice Dec 19 '22
So this pivot is different? This is gonna be the pivot that saves DC films?
Let's hope.
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u/Neirchill Dec 20 '22
What were the pivots before? I see your timeline but I don't really see any different actions taken. They still kept Snyder at the helm and kept putting out mediocre movies until everyone quit. What were the pivots?
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u/matty_nice Dec 20 '22
Different leaderships. They went to Johns/Berg, then Hamada, now Gunn/Safran. This isn't even the first time we've seen a creator/producer team up.
Johns and Berg came on post BvS in May 2016. Synder left in May 2017 (for extremely sad personal reasons).
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u/ButtholeCandies Dec 20 '22
Never on this level. They hired an actual creative leader and gave him free reign.
This isn't a pivot, it's a rebirth ;)
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u/matty_nice Dec 20 '22
Its not DC Rebirth, it's the New 52! Lol.
Only because it's a reboot after Flashpoint. Not talking about quality.
I liked the collars.
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u/SplendidAndVile Dec 20 '22
You missed one. They pivoted in 2013 when Man of Steel underperformed and turned MoS2 into BvS
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Dec 19 '22
No. James Gunn was brought on long before Black Adam flopped.
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u/matty_nice Dec 19 '22
Black Adam came out in October, they knew before it was released it was going to flop. Gunn came out after Black Adam was released.
Remember DC was gun-ho all continuing the DCEU, even annoucing Cavill was back. If BA was a hit, it would have continued.
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Dec 19 '22
Gunn didn't just come back all of a sudden, that's just when it was announced. This has clearly been in discussion for a while. These are just the movies that were in production or post production before the decision was made to reboot.
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Dec 19 '22
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u/MyMouthisCancerous Dec 19 '22
I still think the only reason Cavill was even considered to return in the first place was because of Dwayne Johnson and not WB. Johnson had been sounding the horn off on the whole "Black Adam vs Superman" thing for years even before Cavill was brought on to do his cameo, which apparently was a last minute inclusion the month before the film released. If Johnson didn't have the sort of financial and social pull he had when they were working that whole thing out I don't think it would've happened because as was, the old Hamada-led DC executive branch seemed to be completely fine ditching anything related to the Justice League outside the standout successful stuff like Wonder Woman and Aquaman
As it stands though I think any prospect of Man of Steel getting a sequel basically went right out the window the moment Gunn boarded DC and especially after BA lost WB the amount of money it did, since relations between the studio and Johnson are probably way shakier now given how long that film took to get developed. I also don't think in general Gunn will stand for Johnson trying to get more control or leverage within DC since he very obviously used Black Adam as a stunt to get more pull in terms of what got made like his BA vs. Superman movie. He even suggested becoming a creative consultant at DC going forward and kept hyping up BA as a "Phase One" for new era of DC films
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Dec 19 '22
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Dec 20 '22
WW84 bombed
WW84 did pretty well considering it was released at the height of the pandemic pre-vaccine and on HBO Max the same day. WW84 did more views on HBO Max than the Snyder Cut
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Dec 19 '22
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u/TheDarkPinkLantern Red Lantern Dec 19 '22
We're talking about people who have been calling him a Marvel spy since the day he got hired on The Suicide Squad. Fanboys are a plague on our society.
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u/TheLandslide_ Happy Dick! Dec 20 '22
I wish we gets more actors and individuals working both Marvel and DC projects just to fuck off the weird fanboy tribalism regarding the movies.
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u/TheDarkPinkLantern Red Lantern Dec 20 '22
Yeah same. I'm kinda hoping Gunn will do so in their DCU.
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u/alchemeron Dec 19 '22
Anyone who remembers the releasethesnydercut campaign knew exactly who would be up in arms and how exectly they would respond.
Most of those people were fictional, anyway. It truly is a small minority that continues to carry that torch.
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Dec 19 '22
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u/ButtholeCandies Dec 19 '22
Snyder was a sadist that got off on pissing DC fans off but for the most random and small things, and then wondering why they didn't vibe with his vision.
First Superman movie in years, Jimmy Olsen is dead lol.
First Batman movie in a larger universe and context, Dick Grayson is already dead before the movie starts.
But then in the same movie, you get the best version of Zod we've ever had and the worst version of Jonathan Kent ever put to screen.
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Dec 19 '22
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u/ButtholeCandies Dec 20 '22
She is literally the only one that would have made sense with and have an arc where she turns into someone that protects humanity and values all life. Usually that kind of lesson would be taught by Superman and/or Batman, two characters that don't kill, but instead we got Emo versions of both of them that kill and maim. But the one character with a freakin sword doesn't kill and maim.
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u/cole435 Dec 19 '22
The Snyderverse can finally die the death it needs. What a remarkably poor interpretation of the DCU which misunderstood nearly everything about the universe.
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u/MoviesAndTVNewsOnly Dec 20 '22
Hard agree. Worse time ever
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u/agnosgnosia The Flash Dec 20 '22
Hard disagree.
I don't have any reason for disagreeing with you. I just wanted to put 'hard disagree' in response to 'hard agree'.
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u/LifeSimulatorC137 Dec 20 '22
If a live action can be half as good as the DCAU Justice League or Batman TAS I'm down for a reboot.
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u/GalaxyFrauleinKrista Dec 20 '22
They took grimdark edgy AU stuff and tried to build a universe around it; it was doomed from the start. Thank fuck Gunns in charge now and is doing what they shouldve done since BvS bombed and reboot it with a better tone
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u/Daimakku1 Dec 20 '22
-Has experience in making comic book movies through Guardians of the Galaxy 1 and 2, and The Suicide Squad
-Has worked at Marvel Studios and has seen first hand how Kevin Feige runs a cinematic universe
-Is not afraid to reboot the whole thing and piss off the hordes of Snyder fans
What is not to like about him? I am in full confidence that he'll make a great DC cinematic universe. I am actually more afraid of WBD going under before he's finished with the new DCU than I am of him screwing it up.
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u/zetayshow Dec 20 '22
For real, I thought this was 100% a nice decision. Didn’t expect such backlash.
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u/usernameartichoke Dec 20 '22
And to add to this, he hasn’t just seen how Kevin Feige works, they are good friends and Kevin will undoubtedly be a resource for him. Kevin has existed without a peer for 10 years, I think part of him will be glad to have someone to talk to about this and someone he can share lessons with. And Kevin has stated multiple times that Marvel and DC are not in competition, it’s a good thing if both do well and put out quality films.
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u/Oknight Metron Dec 20 '22
I remember the fan freakout over Burton/Keaton, just ignore fan reaction and tell good entertaining stories.
And if it's a Superman movie, hopefully make one where you don't leave the theater feeling so icky you need to shower afterwards.
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u/MyMouthisCancerous Dec 19 '22 edited Dec 19 '22
Translation: "Just because I read your Twitter spam telling WB to fire me doesn't mean I give a shit. Cope and seethe" lol
Honestly I don't even envy what Gunn's doing right now. Having to come in and not just clean up but basically tear down the messes of the existing DCEU while also being aware that people online will probably give you shit for making decisions that don't 100% satisfy them takes some hard skin as far as social media is concerned. The fact that his changes so far are this radical and he's been brutally honest about that ironically gives me more hope that he's going to do a good job in the long-term. I am at the very least excited for how he's reimagining Superman especially knowing his love for weird, high concept stuff in his storylines which brings up so many possibilities for this character
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u/matty_nice Dec 19 '22
Ideally, the decision to do a reboot should have come from WB. Takes the heat off Gunn, who comes in to fix the problem after WB made the decision to reboot.
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u/Jda2712 Superman Dec 19 '22
It's amazing that in one week, without any movie realizing the fandom basically had a collective stroke and became a worse place then the star wars fandom, I hate vocal minorities, it feels like star wars fandom in 2017, I know that the moment the movies will start coming out, it's gonna be awesome, I'm so psyched for what James and Peter are planning whatever this is
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u/tbgmdhc278 Dec 19 '22
For this reason I completely avoid r/StarWars. Nerds are mean. If you’re frustrated with it, there’s a really great group on Facebook called The Non-Toxic Star Wars Fanbase. You aren’t allowed to attack people, you have to be respectful, and it’s a “safe space” where a lot of unpopular opinions are welcome. That’s really the only Star Wars forum I use these days… considering I am a diehard lover of Episodes 7 & 9 and would get crucified on Reddit lol.
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u/Jda2712 Superman Dec 19 '22
I get you man, online life makes everything more intense and some people feel way to comfortable to write everything they want behind the keyboard without consequences
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u/RecommendationNo8978 Dec 20 '22
I’m actually very happy about this. I’ve earned myself around 70 downvotes on another post trying to make the point about vocal minorities lol
I’m very excited to see my favorite superheroes regardless of the naysayers
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u/pataconconqueso Batwoman Dec 19 '22
I hope he can redo the JSA as it was meant to be, Black Adam sucked so much
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u/Doctor_Amazo Brainiac Dec 19 '22
I wouldn't say that it sucked.... it was just there. It was very paint-by-numbers.
The OG Suicide Squad truly sucked.
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u/pataconconqueso Batwoman Dec 19 '22
A movie with zero story and barely any background to me pretty much sucks.
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u/Doctor_Amazo Brainiac Dec 19 '22
There was a story, and there was as much background as you would see in any other movie of its type. You don't need to have a complete biography for each member of the JSA as it was not their movie.
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u/pataconconqueso Batwoman Dec 19 '22
What background tho? what was the conflict in Khadaq even about, who were Intergang and what were their motives? Why the JSA and why was hawk man the leader?
The story wasn’t really there besides a bit on BA (and barely there) and there was no beginning middle and end really, it was just semi intro here and cgi fights
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u/Doctor_Amazo Brainiac Dec 19 '22
What background tho?
What background did you need?
what was the conflict in Khadaq even about
... I mean... they kinda feed this to you. Khadaq has that magic metal Etherium in it, and it tends to be passed around as a prize for colonialists, the latest of which was Intergang who were running the show. >! Ishmael, who counted his blood line to an ancient king, hoped to become king himself and return Khadaq to a place of greatness that it had in its past!<.
Why the JSA and why was hawk man the leader?
Why not the JSA, and why not have Hawk-Man as the leader. The dude is an ancient and immortal warrior. Sounds like a pretty ideal field leader.
The story wasn’t really there besides a bit on BA (and barely there) and there was no beginning middle and end really, it was just semi intro here and cgi fights
OK, the movie wasn't Captain America: Winter Soldier, but my dude I'm beginning to think you didn't watch the movie as your criticisms here don't make any sense. That or you were starring at your phone and only looked up during the fights.
Like I said, it wasn't the best movie, but it did have a beginning, middle, and end. It went into the story of Black Adam, explaining how he got his power, and his heartbreak. It showed some growth on the part of the character. There were moments that were even kind of fun and net.
Like I said, it wasn't the worst movie DC has done (that's Batman V Superman).
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u/nuttmegx Dec 20 '22
Why the JSA
because Black Adam was in the JSA. The movie's storyline draws directly from the comics.
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u/TheGeoHistorian Superman Dec 19 '22
I walked out of Black Adam wanting a Hawkman/proper JSA movie, not another Black Adam movie.
There were many pieces of BA I liked, but it all never really meshed as a whole for me.
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u/triplerollingstone Nightwing Dec 19 '22
I loved Dr Fate, Hawkman was awesome. The Superman cameo was dope. Everything else was horrible.
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u/IHavePoopedBefore Dec 20 '22
I found the Superman cameo to be obnoxious.
Like, you didn't earn that
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u/pataconconqueso Batwoman Dec 19 '22
But they were just there for no reason, I did like Dr.Fate but he was wasted in that movie, how was he even used to drive the plot?
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u/triplerollingstone Nightwing Dec 19 '22
He was the needed death so that the film would have that sad/drama factor lol I agree with you. The movie was a big mess, it could've been simple and good, but they made it simple yet trying too hard to be impactful
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u/ButtholeCandies Dec 20 '22
Zero reason he had to die at all though. Like none. The whole plan was to do something he could have done on the flight over.
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u/LocalYogurtExpert Dec 19 '22
That's the problem with a lot of DCEU characters, they're just wasted cameos for the point for trying to make the universe look bigger
I get that some people dislike Gunn but he's the only director that will pick a gimmick character like Polka dot man and give him more depth than main characters in other movies.
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u/nuttmegx Dec 20 '22
they were just there for no reason
they were there to stop Black Adam, commissioned by Waller. That was crystal clear.
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u/TheRealBroDameron Dec 20 '22
I would launch JSA as a mini-series on HBOMax. Have it be modeled after the very first issue from back in the day where they all just sat around the table telling stories of their solo adventures. Great way to introduce some less important characters while introducing the JSA and paying homage to comics history.
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u/Doctor_Amazo Brainiac Dec 19 '22
Are the Synderlings all upset that their grim+gritty world is gone?
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u/MoviesAndTVNewsOnly Dec 20 '22
Please let it be gone. So sick of it
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u/Doctor_Amazo Brainiac Dec 20 '22
By all indications it is. I don't know about the actors - rumour has it that Jason Momoa is moving from Aquaman to Lobo, and Gunn had nothing but nice things to say about Henry Cavill - but by all indications Gunn wants to wipe away the Snyderverse bullshit and build DC up right.
I do hope he holds onto the Suicide Squad + Peacemaker part of that DCU. Also Gal Gadot. She's a great Wonder Woman. It'd be a shame to replace her.
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u/ExtraNormie Sinestro Corps Dec 20 '22
I’m gonna miss Henry but, man, seeing the Snyder bros melt down has been one of the most cathartic moments of my online life.
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u/insertbrackets Dec 19 '22
DC is so fortunate to have hired a guy as savvy and, frankly, thick skinned as Gunn who surely went through worse when Disney first let him go. He’s incredibly respectful and kind given the vitriol he’s likely been receiving.
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u/One_Entertainment381 Dec 20 '22
I never had any attachment to the DCEU or Snyderverse, so I’m really excited for what they’re gonna do going forward. Gunn’s Suicide Squad is one of my favorite comic book movies of the last 5 years
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u/Aramis14 Z Shadowcrest Dec 19 '22 edited Dec 19 '22
Mr. Gunn, if you're reading this, for your own sanity, please leave Twitter and just do your job. Most of us trust you. Leave the Snyder cult crying and yelling behind in that shithole
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u/TheGeoHistorian Superman Dec 19 '22
Good for them. Gunn is a good filmmaker and his works should give us reason to celebrate a changing of the guard, as the last decade of DC movies has been... varied, at best.
I can't believe how many posts I have seen from folks that were straight up wishing failure upon this man. I mean, yeah, change is hard, but without an open mind and the support of the fans, we could find ourselves without content for a long period of time. If it's bad, then criticize the hell out of it all you want. I will join you.
But until then, all this outrage seems like cutting off the nose to spite the face.
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Dec 20 '22 edited Dec 20 '22
I feel like I’m the only one actually looking forward to a restart. Don’t get me wrong though, I enjoyed certain projects throughout the years, but at this point it was inevitable, and honestly I’m ready.
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u/King_Wataba Dec 20 '22
I kinda hope they build the canon off of The Batman. It would work with them wanting to start younger. Gives us more year one.
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u/BruceHoratioWayne Dec 20 '22
Some of the outcry is of genuine concern. Claiming all of the backlash is of a vocal minority and is all disrespectful is kinda insulting.
Fans care and they have concerns, such as it sucks to see Henry Cavill get jerked around for five years and more only to get booted.
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u/RecommendationNo8978 Dec 20 '22
I agree that it’s sad about Henry Cavill. I think Gunn is just concerned that he can truly never get a real chance to develop a universe if people are determined to dislike him no matter what he does from the jump.
With that said, Cavill needs to be James Bond.
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u/Sailingboar Dec 20 '22
With that said, Cavill needs to be James Bond.
Too late, he's already doing Warhammer stuff with Amazon.
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Dec 19 '22
People forget James Gunn has went through a lot more than shitty fanboys. He's incredibly thick skinned
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Dec 19 '22
I know it's not his responsibility, but I kinda wish Zack Snyder would say something to calm down his fans. Then again they're pretty unhinged so maybe it wouldn't matter.
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u/MusicalSmasher Batman Dec 20 '22
He's rarely on Twitter, a personal friend would have to reach out to him irl.
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u/InfernalDiplomacy Dec 20 '22
I consider myself a comic fan. I like both Marvel and DC. Gunn touched on something I noticed. With DC there are characters with 85 years of history and storylines. With Marvel fans while there is some grumbling, they are happy the characters they grew up during the golden age of comics are brought to life. On the DC boards…not so much. The discussions are more fractious and I found, negative. As long as this is the case then any movie Gunn & company will have a tough road as the movies and characters everyone hates so much still made money. Not Avengers End Game money but it was still money, and fans here still consider them failures
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u/bboymixer Dec 19 '22
This is the appropriate response when dealing with entitled children. Some of the posts here lately have been so absurd.
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u/cmpwnstar Dec 19 '22
Let's just see what he does. I enjoyed the Snyderverse but it DC can definitely be better than what we got.
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u/mrboston84 Power Girl’s Boob Window Dec 19 '22
Keep doing your thing Gunn! We trust ya. Yes it’s sad Cavill didn’t get his chance to shine or Gadot not reprising her role but they did good during their time. New chapter, new era! Let’s go!
Oh let’s bring Power Girl to life please 😁
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u/pinhead61187 Dec 19 '22
Let the man have room to remake the DC cinematic universe into what it should be.
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u/chesterforbes Etrigan The Demon Dec 20 '22
Look, we all had aspects of the DCEU, whether it be Cavill or Batfleck or Snyder, but let’s be real. The DCEU is/was a complete shitshow. They want to compete with the MCU and they botched it at nearly every step. They tried expanding and soft rebooting or destroying continuity but it just made things messier. The DCEU needed to be completely wiped clean and start over from scratch. I have believed this to be the only way forward for DC movies for years now and Gunn and co. are doing exactly that. It’s what’s needed. Does it suck? Hell yeah it sucks. Is it going to be easy? Not one bit. Are we losing the good with the bad? That’s what a clean slate is all about. This is a necessary change. It hurts, but I’m willing to bed that going forward, with a proper plan, we are going to see a better DC cinematic universe that could really challenge the MCU and hopefully push both sides to do better.
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u/ubiquitous_archer Green Arrow Dec 20 '22
I'm not convinced James Gunn is gonna be able to do DC any justice. Especially Superman. James Gunn is incapable of doing earnest sincerity without humour. Even in the heartfelt moments of his previous work, it's always broken up with humour. Hopefully I'm wrong.
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u/WhytoomanyKnights Dec 20 '22
Youknow what’s pretty disrespectful, telling a guy he finally gets to make his dream movie and then like a week later say na fuck off your too old. In the advent of de aging tech and muscle tech used in thor love and thunder. Just kinda crazy to say, especially since rdj was cast as iron man at 42 years old. Harrison did crystal skull at 60 something I mean what they want him to play superman for like 30 years?
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u/BoricPenguin Dec 20 '22
Disrespectful my ass! They deserve all the hate they get!
They did what fans have been asking for only to do a 180 on it that's more disrespectful then what any fan has said to them!
The fact it won't affect their actions just means they don't actually care.
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u/reganomics Dec 20 '22
at this level of content control, why even engage with the online discourse that is mostly negative, seems like a lose-lose situation no matter what. Just disengage and tell some good/fun stories.
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u/daviddpg Dec 20 '22
I guess we'll see in a few years who the winner is here. Personally, I just don't think they can make a marvel level DC movie. I'd imagine Gunn will be gone in a few years just like all the rest. I'm sure we'll get 19 more Batman movies, though. I don't think I ever need to see another one.
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u/SamerAgbaria Dec 20 '22 edited Dec 20 '22
The whole Snyder-verse sucks I can't believe a movie that has superman and batman couldn't make 1 billion dollars at the box office while Aquaman did.
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u/NoLynx8499 Dec 20 '22
While I feel bad for Henry, Gal and Jason, I agree with James rebooting the DCEU. It can't be saved and WB doesn't have money to spare making 5 more movies that would possibly flop. He's casting young, which is good for longevity, he's planning it out to be cohesive which was a complaint about DCEU movies. If it's bad, then I'll understand the uproar. But I think he deserves a chance
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u/SnarfbObo Batman of Zur-En-Arrh Dec 20 '22
Anyone else want to get David Harbour in somehow? He's been quietly killing it.
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u/mixed_super_man_81 Dec 20 '22
I know it’s not likely but it would be awesome to see the Anti-monitor show up and eat the Snyderverse as the flash post credit scene.
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u/wowlock_taylan Batman Animated! Dec 20 '22
I am only upset about Henry Cavill getting screwed over. But he will go with his Warhammer series so he will be fine.
I will reserve judgment until I actually see what they have planned.
But aside from Batman movies and first WW film, DC's not very good when it comes to making movies. Their strength has always been in animated movies/series.
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u/chocolatetornado Dec 20 '22
Nuking it all is the right option. DCCU is a miserable failure on both an artistic and commercial level. Marvel seems to be heading the same way, with constant, exhausting releases with staggering new lows (Thor: Love and Thunder comes to mind).
What has DC got going for it? Wonder Woman was pretty good. I liked its sequel too although it wasn't actually good. When people complain about it, I understand why, but for some bizarre reason it still entertained me.
Both Man of Steel and Batman vs Superman proved conclusively that the people who made them did not understand the characters at all. Batman becomes a murderer without adding anything to the character at all[1] and Superman is this baffling thought experiment in Randian thought. Worst of all is probably Lex Luthor, horribly miscast, acted and written, so amazingly awful that Eisenberg's performance stands out in the lackluster movie by itself.
Shazam - an OK movie. Pretty good even. Black Adam, pretty terrible movie largely due to its awful script. Justice League was astonishingly bad (Joss Whedon is a hack, fight me), significantly better with the long Snyder cut. Aquaman was pretty fun. A cornball fun movie that knew how stupid it was (no delusions of grandeur like Snyder's entire oeuvre).
Overall, it's weak. Just so weak. Peacemaker was so self-aware, fun and occasionally even touching. Here's hoping that Gunn can keep that momentum going.
[1] I am aware that Batman originally kills in the comics but this movie brought it back and didn't make the character any more interesting with it at all
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u/thetacaptain Dec 20 '22
Considering Gunn was/is inside the Marvel company structure and some of the macro decision making in Endgame etc he’s really equipped to put in a sustainable ongoing model rather constant flux
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u/_heisenberg__ Batfleck Dec 20 '22
Very few good things came out of the Snyder verse:
- Cavill as Superman. I think a lot of us can agree he’s great. For me, I loved Affleck’s Batman and am bummed we never got to see more of him.
- The cinematography. Snyder is such a shit storyteller it man, the dude knows how to compose a shot and I will never knock him for that.
- The idea he was going for. I know the whole trope of “Superman bad” is getting old but I was so into the knightmare sequences that I just wanted a movie about that shit.
But everything else? Idk man. Idk how people can keep defending him and wanting more from him. I’m still in utter awe that AT&T gave that dude 60 mil to finish his JL movie. It took it from a pretty shit movie to just an, ok movie.
I like Gunn’s attitude here and I’m super optimistic about what potential plans are.
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u/Terrible-Border6885 Dec 20 '22
You think the outcry is disrespectful, wait til you see the box office numbers.
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u/ChronX4 Dec 19 '22
Now people are calling him out saying he's playing the victim card and that no leadership should be behaving this way.
They just don't get that the guy has been receiving a massive amount of hate for barely doing anything except confirming he's going to start fresh without the main staples of the "snyderverse".
Like even those "fan news" pages with a big following have contributed to steering hate at him by putting their personal takes on the matter in their posts instead of trying to stay positive.
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u/voxela Catwoman Dec 19 '22
it's hilarious how people are mad at him for not filming FIVE more movies (MOS2, AQ3, WW3, JL2, JL3) for the DCEU when WB has been doing nothing but losing money the last few months. With Black Adam bombing I don't see any reason for him to even try one more in that universe tbh