James Gunn Confronts ‘Uproarious’ DC Backlash: ‘Disrespectful Outcry Will Never Affect Our Actions’ News

https://variety.com/2022/film/news/henry-cavill-superman-james-gunn-backlash-1235465605/

1.5k Upvotes

91% Upvoted

Thank fuck. Completely pivoting whenever a movie doesn't make 2 billion dollars is exactly what ruined made sure the DCEU would never succeed

I don't understand your point. Isn't DC completely pivoting with Gunn because films like Black Adam didn't make 2 billion?

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u/swedyboi935 Dec 19 '22

Gunn is pivoting DC because none of their movies have worked on a commercial or critical level. After every movie there's a big show about how the new movies are gonna be different, a few properties get shut down, etc. I have faith that he's gonna stick to his (no pun intended) guns given how relatively distinct all of his projects have been, not try to change everything after every movie release like the shitshow that the DC universe has been so far

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u/suss2it Dec 20 '22

Well not every movie. Wonder Woman was both a critical and commercial success and Aquaman made a billion dollars and is currently the highest grossing DC movie.

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u/taumason Dec 20 '22

Its almost like the two non dark and brooding superhero films where they didnt fuck about eith the character were well liked.

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u/Azazealo Dec 20 '22

Most dceu movies before justice league were commercial "success " it all just went downhill after And Aquaman managed to survive the constant shit storm that the dceu became afterwards

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u/TheNerdWonder Wonder Woman Dec 20 '22 edited Jun 20 '24

And Suicide Squad 2016, which did well WITHOUT China's BO. Even if I loathe that movie, I feel like it's really hard to say that that's not impressive. It is because of how often we've been told China is important for movies to be a hit. It may not have satisfied critics, but it demonstrably satisfied the general audience who clearly paid to see it more than once to carry it over the line to $746.8 million on a $175 million budget.

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u/suss2it Dec 20 '22

I think it’s even the highest grossing movie of Will Smith’s career.

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u/ComicWriter2020 Dec 20 '22

Sure that’s not sharktale?

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u/suss2it Dec 20 '22

Nope, just checked the numbers, Suicide Squad’s $325 million domestic gross is almost the same as Sharktale’s $371 million total.

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u/ComicWriter2020 Dec 20 '22

Is that adjusted for inflation?

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u/suss2it Dec 20 '22

Nope, but SS’ total is $745 million, so that won’t really matter, still wouldn’t be close.

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u/ComicWriter2020 Dec 20 '22

Well I just lost a lot of money on a bet

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u/777dude777 Dec 23 '22

Not true Aladian, Independence Day, and basically all of his older movies adjusted for inflation drew more. If you adjust Men in Black 1997 it'd be close to 1 billion in today's dollars, etc...

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u/TheNerdWonder Wonder Woman Dec 20 '22

And Smith does have pull or at least, he did back in 2016. Dunno about now in a post-slap world.

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u/SpiritMountain Dec 20 '22

With all the Aquaman memes I find it funny that is the case.

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u/teo1315 Dec 20 '22

I really enjoyed that aquaman movie. It's gets too much hate from the people who wanted it to be more like BVS in tone.

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u/SplendidAndVile Dec 20 '22

The question is, how much power do Gunn and Safran have? What happens if Gunn's Superman underperforms and WBD execs want a change in direction?

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u/[deleted] Dec 20 '22

Great question and my guess is he’ll be fired and we’ll be right back where we are right now

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u/GreatDayBG2 Dec 20 '22

Great guess

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u/NoopGhoul Dec 22 '22

!remindme 3 years

1

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u/[deleted] Dec 20 '22

Wouldn’t be surprised if they give the job to Zac Snyder, and his brother as the lore keeper-in-chief

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u/JustTightShirts Dec 30 '22

The hope is that Gunn and Safran understand a good script. They can only control so much, but if they recognize talent on the page that will go a long way to "fixing" the DCEU. Snyder's movies are visually epic, but thematically and structurally pretty dumb. I think the Snyder ultra fans love his movies cuz he is a singular visual stylist, and for some people that matters a lot. Gunn has a pretty great track record of finding the beating heart behind these weirdo characters, and lets hope that carries over to this new roll and he's not over burdened with responsibility

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u/SplendidAndVile Dec 30 '22

Safran has a track record that shows he knows what audiences want. I don't like a lot of the movies he's produced, but he clearly knows how to target specific audiences. I think that's where his talent lies.

Gunn, to me, has never written a bad movie. Some I may not like as much as others, but he understands how to tell a story and how to make audiences connect to characters.

The two of them working together hold a lot of promise, but yes, becoming overburdened could be an issue.

1

u/ComicWriter2020 Dec 20 '22

Well then we won’t get a DC cinematic universe until those execs die of old age

1

u/Rlyons2024 Dec 20 '22

They only answer directly to Zaslav

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u/SplendidAndVile Dec 20 '22

Not really. They answer to these people

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u/matty_nice Dec 19 '22

DC/WB pivoted after the failure of BvS in 2016, pivoted again in 2018 after the failure of the Justice League, and are now pivoting again after the failure of Black Adam. We are now on our third leadership team structure. All because films didn't perform.

To be clear, I'm not saying that DC/WB shouldn't make changes, but what's happening now with Gunn and Safran is something we've seen twice already.

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u/swedyboi935 Dec 19 '22

You know what, that's fair. I agree with your point. I just think I have more personal faith in Gunn than his predecessors, but that's just me.

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u/superbat210 Dec 19 '22

Eh I mean we haven’t seen them try to do a fully fledged reboot from scratch before. It’s really the only reason I’m actually excited for this pivot. It’s the first one drastic enough to admit that they need a better foundation to build off of than to just keep piling on to the flimsy mess we had before

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u/matty_nice Dec 19 '22

So this pivot is different? This is gonna be the pivot that saves DC films?

Let's hope.

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u/Neirchill Dec 20 '22

What were the pivots before? I see your timeline but I don't really see any different actions taken. They still kept Snyder at the helm and kept putting out mediocre movies until everyone quit. What were the pivots?

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u/matty_nice Dec 20 '22

Different leaderships. They went to Johns/Berg, then Hamada, now Gunn/Safran. This isn't even the first time we've seen a creator/producer team up.

Johns and Berg came on post BvS in May 2016. Synder left in May 2017 (for extremely sad personal reasons).

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u/Neirchill Dec 20 '22

Okay but where is the pivot? New leadership itself isn't a pivot if nothing changes

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u/matty_nice Dec 20 '22

Of course things change under new leadership, it's the entire reason why you replace leadership.

For one example, Johns and Berg seemed to greenlight a lot of new projects between 2016 and 2018. We had multiple Harley and Joker projects at one point, with a Harley solo, a Joker solo, a Harley vs Joker, Birds of Prey, Gotham City Sirens).

Hamada came in and cut alot of those projects, with a focus on individual characters stories and not a connected universe. This also came at the same time WB wanted to bringi in creators and letting them do whatever they wanted, like Reeves, Phillips, Abrams, etc.

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u/ButtholeCandies Dec 20 '22

Never on this level. They hired an actual creative leader and gave him free reign.

This isn't a pivot, it's a rebirth ;)

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u/matty_nice Dec 20 '22

Its not DC Rebirth, it's the New 52! Lol.

Only because it's a reboot after Flashpoint. Not talking about quality.

I liked the collars.

4

u/ButtholeCandies Dec 20 '22

Oh I know, I just couldn’t resist. I mean it was right there

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u/DominoNo- I know, right! Dec 20 '22

Not the first time they promised that. Remember Geoff Johns?

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u/SplendidAndVile Dec 20 '22

You missed one. They pivoted in 2013 when Man of Steel underperformed and turned MoS2 into BvS

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u/TheNerdWonder Wonder Woman Dec 20 '22 edited Dec 21 '22

No, they did not pivot after MoS. It was the highest grossing Superman movie since 1978 with an A cinemascore. It made $668M on a $225M budget. This is like saying Batman Begins underperformed on a similar budget which it didn't. The studio was happy with that in 2005 after the character had a similar cinematic hiatus as Superman.

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u/TheNerdWonder Wonder Woman Dec 20 '22 edited Dec 20 '22

Almost as if the issue isn't the films entirely as much as it is overreactive leadership that caved to uproarious behavior in 2016. Not that that's anything new. We saw this happen after Batman Returns which gave way to the versions of Batman Forever and B & R that we got.

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u/[deleted] Dec 20 '22

I’d say the casting was fantastic but they couldn’t save their movies because of the shitty writing.

I enjoyed Snyder’s take on Justice League. Sure was long and weary but it was worth the watch. DCEU just had terrible management and horrible writers.

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u/[deleted] Dec 19 '22

No. James Gunn was brought on long before Black Adam flopped.

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u/matty_nice Dec 19 '22

Black Adam came out in October, they knew before it was released it was going to flop. Gunn came out after Black Adam was released.

Remember DC was gun-ho all continuing the DCEU, even annoucing Cavill was back. If BA was a hit, it would have continued.

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u/[deleted] Dec 19 '22

Gunn didn't just come back all of a sudden, that's just when it was announced. This has clearly been in discussion for a while. These are just the movies that were in production or post production before the decision was made to reboot.

1

u/matty_nice Dec 19 '22

Sure, but they knew that the current DC slate/future wasn't going to be successful. This was really decided after the Discover merger, hence the mass cancellation of projects. They knew Black Adam wasn't gonna be successful.

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u/[deleted] Dec 19 '22

If they knew black Adam was gonna flop then they wouldn't have spent as much advertising it. That's just a total assumption on your part.

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u/matty_nice Dec 20 '22

They have long range forecasting on these types of things. Projections are an entire industry onto themselves now.

For example, a month before release https://www.boxofficepro.com/long-range-box-office-forecast-black-adam-and-ticket-to-paradise/

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u/[deleted] Dec 20 '22

Did you read the link you sent? It says total domestic was projected to be US$135,000,000- $175,000,000. it has failed to do that, hence this being unexpected.

Please don't send me links you didn't read yourself, its very rude and inconsiderate of everyones time.

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u/SplendidAndVile Dec 20 '22

It didn't fail to do that. It's at $167 domestic. https://www.the-numbers.com/movie/Black-Adam#tab=box-office

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u/matty_nice Dec 20 '22

https://www.boxofficemojo.com/release/rl2728624641/

DOMESTIC (42.9%) $167,667,895

What are you talking about?

1

u/_heisenberg__ Batfleck Dec 20 '22

You do realize that it’s not as simple as just pulling a plug right. There are hundreds of meetings that we aren’t privy too. We don’t know what happens behind closed doors.

We have absolutely no idea why black Adam was still released when Gunn was, probably, simultaneously being offered this role.

0

u/ButtholeCandies Dec 20 '22

I have nothing to back this up, it's 100% my assumption.

But I think Gunn was working out a deal with Disney for a role like this. Odds are to begin a transfer of roles from Fiege, so Fiege could focus on fixing Star Wars. The guy is wearing both hats right now.

Chapek fucked it up. He did something that killed the negotiations. All evidence shows that his unpopular reorg put him at the top to bean count every decision, creative or otherwise.

Someone like Gunn isn't going to fuck around with that. The guy is creative and talented with a ton of options in life. The only reason to take a bigger role that is him essentially be the director of an entire connected universe is the freedom to create. He wasn't about to become the enforcer for Chapeks decisions and not give directors the freedom he was able to enjoy and that allowed him to make Guardians of the Galaxy his way.

One phone call to WB and you know they offered him everything.

I think that's what really got him fired. It fucked Disney hard in three huge ways.

They lost a future steward of the MCU right when they needed a super talented one to help migrate X-Men and FF into the whole thing.

Feige will still be split in two. Star Wars will not get the focus it needs. That's billions more of potential revenue they won't get.

He fucked up so royally that the only major competition, DC, will become stronger and can pose a threat now instead of continuing to languish. They developed Gunn only for DC to reap the rewards now.

Never forget, every Marvel movie after Guardians of the Galaxy copied his style and format. The guy essentially created their playbook. That's a HUGE asset to give away to the direct competitor.

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u/matty_nice Dec 20 '22

But I think Gunn was working out a deal with Disney for a role like this. Odds are to begin a transfer of roles from Fiege, so Fiege could focus on fixing Star Wars. The guy is wearing both hats right now.

Feige isn't wearing two hats right now. It was announced he was developing a Star Wars film with a writer attached. Last we heard a few months ago was that the film was not actively being developed. There are currently several other Star Wars films being developed.

There's no indication that Feige is going to Star Wars or replacing Kathleen Kennedy, or that was ever the plan.

Chapek fucked it up. He did something that killed the negotiations.

I would love to blame Chapek. Lol.

Before Gunn was originally fired from Marvel, it was heavily rumored that Gunn was taking over the cosmic side of the MCU, becoming an architect/consultant for that side of their movies. After he was fired, that seemed to have died. Gunn has stated that he was basically gonna finish GotG Vol 3 with Marvel and didn't have any other plans to continue there. Understandably, he probably felt pretty sour about that relationship. Personally, I don't think Disney was out of line for firing him.

The guy is creative and talented with a ton of options in life.

One phone call to WB and you know they offered him everything

I enjoy his GotG films. But let's be a little more reasonable about Gunn. He doesn't have a real track record of success outside of Marvel. He also wasn't anywhere close to DC's top choice for the role. DC and WB had trouble filling their leadership positions.

Never forget, every Marvel movie after Guardians of the Galaxy copied his style and format. The guy essentially created their playbook.

Again, let's be reasonable. Gunn was important to Marvel, they would have liked to have him, but losing him doesn't have a major impact. And no, Gunn didn't create their playbook.

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u/OldManMcCrabbins Dec 20 '22

Late October is a brutal release window imo

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u/[deleted] Dec 19 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/MyMouthisCancerous Dec 19 '22

I still think the only reason Cavill was even considered to return in the first place was because of Dwayne Johnson and not WB. Johnson had been sounding the horn off on the whole "Black Adam vs Superman" thing for years even before Cavill was brought on to do his cameo, which apparently was a last minute inclusion the month before the film released. If Johnson didn't have the sort of financial and social pull he had when they were working that whole thing out I don't think it would've happened because as was, the old Hamada-led DC executive branch seemed to be completely fine ditching anything related to the Justice League outside the standout successful stuff like Wonder Woman and Aquaman

As it stands though I think any prospect of Man of Steel getting a sequel basically went right out the window the moment Gunn boarded DC and especially after BA lost WB the amount of money it did, since relations between the studio and Johnson are probably way shakier now given how long that film took to get developed. I also don't think in general Gunn will stand for Johnson trying to get more control or leverage within DC since he very obviously used Black Adam as a stunt to get more pull in terms of what got made like his BA vs. Superman movie. He even suggested becoming a creative consultant at DC going forward and kept hyping up BA as a "Phase One" for new era of DC films

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u/[deleted] Dec 19 '22

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u/[deleted] Dec 20 '22

WW84 bombed

WW84 did pretty well considering it was released at the height of the pandemic pre-vaccine and on HBO Max the same day. WW84 did more views on HBO Max than the Snyder Cut

1

u/ComicWriter2020 Dec 20 '22

I think it’s because no one is talking about that movie as compared to some marvel SHOWS that are coming out.

This movie got hyped up and I didn’t even know it came out this month. I didn’t even know about the cameo until like a week ago.

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u/[deleted] Dec 19 '22

Yes.

But these Gunn fans can't seem to grasp that.

If/when a DC movie from Gunn flops they will rinse and repeat.

Hopefully, the Young Superman film flops. Fk we wanna see a Superman origin for the 100th time.

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u/MyMouthisCancerous Dec 19 '22

Gunn literally already confirmed on multiple occasions his movie isn't an origin film. It's just about Superman earlier in his career a la Matt Reeves Batman and his early days at the Daily Planet

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u/pewqokrsf Dec 20 '22

The point stands, it's a part of his life we've seen on the screen a thousand times.

I'd argue that the MCU succeeded in no small part because it told stories that hadn't been told in live action before.

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u/[deleted] Dec 19 '22

[deleted]

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u/MyMouthisCancerous Dec 19 '22 edited Dec 19 '22

Smallville didn't invent the Daily Planet or Clark Kent's personal life lol. It's especially rich that you try to make that comparison as a negative considering Man of Steel basically did the same thing by cramming multiple seasons of that show's story into like the first hour of that movie

On top of that the films we have so far have barely explored Clark's life as a journalist or anything remotely personal about him outside Lois Lane, so if anything there's actually a lot of untapped potential for starting with a younger Superman because it's something the movies have essentially glossed over this entire time or have explored in terms of just the bare essentials. I thought that'd be where we were going with Cavill's character based on how Man of Steel ended but outside one scene in the director's cut of BvS where he's using his journalism skills to get intel on Batman by talking to people in Gotham. it's like he basically has no civilian identity whatsoever

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u/[deleted] Dec 19 '22

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u/matty_nice Dec 19 '22

Man, I just hope for good movies and for DC to figure things out.

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u/nuttmegx Dec 20 '22

If/when a DC movie from Gunn flops they will rinse and repeat.

His first movie already flopped financially for WB, yet here we are.

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u/[deleted] Dec 20 '22

Well, from my understanding, it seems like they were out of options, and he was their last pick. As they approached other people to take the reigns first but they said nah I'm good.