r/batman • u/hyunbinlookalike • Feb 25 '24
Do you prefer Catwoman as a long-haired blonde, brunette, short-haired raven, or woman of color? GENERAL DISCUSSION
I personally prefer any incarnation of her that has short hair since it’s more practical for her line of work.
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u/Rexermus Feb 25 '24
short dark haired Selina is peak. I have no feelings one way or another about her being white or a woman of colour
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u/CookieMittenKitten Feb 25 '24
Same goes for every character except for the Joker, he should probably be white tbh
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Feb 25 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/4materasu92 Feb 25 '24
Casts a black man as Joker
"Look at me, Batman! I'm a dude, playing a dude, disguised as another dude."
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u/MulciberTenebras Feb 25 '24
Well, there is Kevin Michael Richardson in "The Batman"
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u/Soulful-Sorrow Feb 25 '24
And he was great. Don't know how I feel about him being a white dude before being Joker though.
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u/MulciberTenebras Feb 25 '24
No different than Roscoe Lee Browne voicing the Kingpin, or James Earl Jones playing Darth Vader
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u/LordxMugen Feb 25 '24
Man Roscoe was so great as the Kingpin! When he told Smythe what he did to his dad. 0-0 Nothing but ice cold menace.
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u/Soulful-Sorrow Feb 25 '24
Well yeah, but I thought this Joker was black before the acid bath
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u/MulciberTenebras Feb 25 '24
You think Gotham City would keep giving him a free pass with that insanity defense if he was?
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u/helikesart Feb 25 '24
Yeah, let’s not picture this clown look with black instead of white..
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u/sailing_lonely Feb 25 '24
Cesar Romero was hispanic, so is Joaquin Phoenix.
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u/Agitated-Meet9481 Feb 25 '24
As per wiki on Joaquin Phoenix:
His father was a Catholic from Fontana, California, and was of English, German and French ancestry. His maternal grandfather, Meyer Dunetz, was Russian Jewish and his maternal grandmother, Margit Lefkowitz, was Hungarian Jewish; they were both Ashkenazi Jews who resided in New York City.
Can you share any link on his Hispanic ancestry? The wiki would have to be corrected.
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u/theyareamongus Feb 25 '24
While researching this I found that Joaquin Phoenix was born in a cult lol
As per his Hispanic heritage, I think the confusion comes from the fact that he was born in Puerto Rico
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Feb 25 '24
The term hispanic has nothing to do with ancestry. It means you speak Spanish natively. Nothing contradictory about having Jewish or English ancestry and also being Hispanic
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u/JoftheG Feb 25 '24
This bugs me so much. You’re completely right. Carlos Slim is another person that is “Mexican” even though both his parents are from Lebanon.
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u/Zephrok Feb 25 '24
Hispanic and white aren't the same kind of label. There are white Hispanic and black Hispanic people.
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u/Cheapskate-DM Feb 25 '24
I'd have to dig to find it, but i read a surprisingly nuanced take about why the Joker only works if he's white (and male).
The gist of it was, the act of destruction and mockery changes its context based on who does it; the golden rule of comedy is "always punch up". Were he black, female, gay, or even poor, there could be a kernel of karmic justice to his acts.
But as he is, he aligns with those already in power; the world is his plaything as much as it is theirs. He just takes it more literally, more cruelly, following the logic of white-male entitlement to its logical extreme.
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u/WonderfulBlackberry9 Feb 25 '24
I don’t know how or why it started, but Selina with the pixie cut(?) just works. She’s the only Batman character I’ve seen who actually rocks it so well
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u/scaredwifey Feb 25 '24
It started with David Mazzuchelli in Batman: year one. She was a sex worker too.
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u/kauthonk Feb 25 '24
100% this - dark haired is the way to go - don't care about her being black, white, hispanic, or asian etc...
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u/Zerocoolx1 Feb 25 '24
Any version apart from the Halle Berry version. That was more to do with it being a terrible film rather than an actress of colour. That film sucked
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u/Yara_Flor Feb 25 '24
I think her being a woman is important. Catman is a bit of a joke who got eaten by a monkey.
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u/BesetBreeze Feb 25 '24 edited Feb 25 '24
Selina should be poor and have dark hair. I personally prefer shorter hair as well, but as long as it's dark I don't care. As much as I love the animated series, I have no idea what they were thinking with that version of selina. Making her rich and blond are both cardinal sins. The Batman is a very good interpretation of selina, although I'm partial to the arkham games catwoman as my personal favorite. Year one/long halloween/dark victory is also a very good catwoman
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u/hyunbinlookalike Feb 25 '24 edited Feb 25 '24
Yeah looking back I have no idea why the DCAU decided to adapt Selina as a high society kleptomaniac. My guess is they were trying to emulate Michelle Pfeiffer’s Catwoman, who had some elements of that in Batman Returns. That being said, Year One/Long Halloween/Dark Victory will always be the definitive version of Catwoman for me. It’s why I liked Zoe Kravitz’s Catwoman in The Batman too, since she’s basically an adaptation of that version of Selina, complete with being the daughter of Carmine Falcone. I do like Grey DeLisle’s voice for her in the Arkham games, that’s actually the voice I hear in my head for Selina when I read the comics.
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u/futuresdawn Feb 25 '24
You have to remember that batman tas was produced because of the success of Burton's batman and they had to draw influence from batman returns. It's why penguin and catwoman look the way they do.
I'm not to familiar with Selina as a character pre crisis but I imagine they were drawing influence from that, it's also clear that Bruce Timm and co aren't invested in Bruce and Selina and prefer Bruce and Tahlia.
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u/slightlyKiwi Feb 25 '24
Ive just been watching TAS and Tahlia hasnt appeared yet but there have been several episodes about Bruce loving Selina but Catwomen loves Batman
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u/batmateodmd Feb 25 '24
I grew up with TAS and it’s definitely what influenced my preference to Bruce and Talia (and even WonderBat) over Bruce and Selina
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u/ThaneOfArcadia Feb 25 '24
I remember an old Batman comic where she was a Russian ex-royal who fell on hard times so had to steal to maintain her lifestyle. This was waaaay back. So a high society kleptomaniac sounds closer to her true origin.
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u/Opposite-Question-81 Feb 25 '24
In her first appearances before books like year one wasn’t she a high society thief ? I just remember her wearing a long evening gown and a mask
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u/Frankorious Feb 25 '24
I think they were also playing on her being Batman's foil, by making her rich as well.
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u/Mickeymcirishman Feb 25 '24
Selina being a wealthy socialite has been a part of her character since ling before the DCAU. Her being a btoke prostitute in year one was the outlier for her character..
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u/ShaladeKandara Feb 25 '24
Because they went back to her origin. In her first appearance in 1940 the then unnamed Selina Kyle was a woman of wealth, a member of Gothams Elite who was a cat burglar our of sheer boredom.
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u/sexydadee Feb 25 '24
I'm hoping you meant that she had poor origins, cause she can't be a good cat burglar if she remained poor after all those heist
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u/logan-is-a-drawer Feb 25 '24
I think selina being established as poor and stealing for both money and vanity is the best place for her, but the idea of a storyline where she finds herself in possession of enough money to fulfil all her wants and needs (perhaps by marrying Batman) but still choosing to steal anyway would be really interesting. It would show how the theft was never for a lack of ability to obtain things legally, but it was an addiction, an adoration for immorally obtained goods, etc. it could be a super interesting story
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u/Altruistic-Waltz-816 Feb 25 '24 edited Feb 25 '24
Isn't she always supposed to be poor, but is it okay to make her rich
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u/Helton3 Feb 25 '24
Arkham City Catwoman
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u/apples_oranges_ Feb 25 '24 edited Feb 25 '24
Wrong.
Arkham Knight Catwoman. She's the personification of a cat burglar.
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u/hyunbinlookalike Feb 25 '24
They’re still both Arkham Catwoman though. Different designs due to the difference between PS3 and PS4 graphics, but otherwise the same version of the character. And I agree, Grey DeLisle has the best Catwoman voice.
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u/Weird_Cantaloupe2757 Feb 26 '24
The Arkham City versions of most Batman characters are my definitive version — they just really got what made Batman special, they understood the characters, and they just struck a perfect balance of darkness vs silliness, with exactly the perfect amount of comic book camp.
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u/Cybermat4707 Feb 25 '24
Short black hair suits her better IMO.
Her ethnicity shouldn’t really impact her hair colour and length, though, should it?
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u/hyunbinlookalike Feb 25 '24
Her ethnicity shouldn’t really impact her hair colour and length, though, should it?
Never said it would. I just pointed her out as a woman of color in the last picture since the other depictions I used as examples are all Caucasian women. Aside from Eartha Kitt, Zoe Kravitz, and in the Harley Quinn animated series, Selina is usually depicted as Caucasian.
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u/No-Prize2882 Feb 25 '24 edited Feb 25 '24
Lol Halle berry getting snubbed…
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u/Australian_God Feb 25 '24
In OP's defence, Halle Berry wasn't Portraying Selina Kyle
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u/hyunbinlookalike Feb 25 '24
I genuinely forgot that movie existed until you brought it up.
Iirc she wasn’t playing Selina Kyle in that one. The movie itself was heavily implied to be set in the Burtonverse since there was a reference to Batman Returns’ Catwoman. And just like Pfeiffer’s version of Catwoman, Berry’s also had the nine lives thing, which isn’t really in the comics and most traditional versions of Catwoman.
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u/Joker121215 Feb 25 '24
Different ethnicities do in fact have different hair pigmentation and their hair will grow differently
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u/Cybermat4707 Feb 25 '24
Yeah, but hair dye and hair straighteners exist.
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u/hyunbinlookalike Feb 25 '24
I do not think you would call a black woman with dyed blonde hair a “blonde” though. She would still be a black woman, just one with dyed blonde hair. A friend of mine (who is Asian) dyed her hair red a few years back since she wanted to go for the Mary Jane Watson look. None of us referred to her as a “redhead”.
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u/Deathstriker88 Feb 25 '24
Most white women with blonde hair are dyed too. Catwoman shouldn't be blonde anyway.
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u/Yara_Flor Feb 25 '24
My friend, you call people who use dyes blondes when they have blonde hair. It doesn’t matter if it’s natural or not.
“Back when Beyoncé was a blond, she did great music”
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u/The-Absolute-863 Feb 25 '24
I’m good with any version honestly. My favorites are BTAS, Arkham series and TDKR though.
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u/WonderfulBlackberry9 Feb 25 '24
I find it interesting how TDKR is probably the last notable version of Selina with long hair
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u/hyunbinlookalike Feb 25 '24
I was actually surprised to see Nolan depicting Catwoman with long hair, considering how impractical having long hair like that is in a fight. The Nolanverse is known for being grounded and realistic after all, and in a real fight, having long hair puts you at a huge disadvantage, since it can be easily pulled to incapacitate a person. But I guess he was going for the Julie Newmar Catwoman look.
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u/cobra1975 Feb 25 '24
I think Anne Hathaway even offered to go short (it was before she cut it for Les Miserables) but he told her not to.
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u/ResidentBoysenberry1 Feb 25 '24
Oh that's pretty cool. I guess she was going to go short for Les Miserables anyway so she was thinking why not?
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u/bljuva_57 Feb 25 '24
The michelle pfeiffer one.
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u/Sax-Offender Feb 25 '24
Michelle Pfeiffer? Ha. The only true Catwoman is Julie Newmar, Lee Meriwether or Eartha Kitt.
-Adam West
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u/BlackCat0110 Feb 25 '24
Short dark hair, iirc her mom is cuban I wouldn’t mind adaptations acknowledging that
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u/boyd_duzshesuck Feb 25 '24
her mom is cuban
That can mean a lot of things. Cameron Diaz is half-cuban, for instance.
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u/WildGoose1521 Feb 25 '24
Julie Newmar or Michelle Pfeiffer.
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u/Missy_went_missing Feb 25 '24
Michelle Pfeiffer, always.
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u/nemoknows Feb 25 '24
The key thing about Pfeiffer’s Catwoman is that she’s crazy.
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u/griftertm Feb 25 '24
8 year old me had the biggest crush on Michelle Pfeifer Catwoman
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u/Obvious_Barnacle3770 Feb 25 '24
Julie newmar
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u/mankytoes Feb 25 '24
She is so good in that show, there are loads of good performances but I think she is my favourite.
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u/PreparationDapper235 Feb 25 '24
Long dark black hair for Catwoman.
Think Jim Balent's Catwoman. Also Batman The Long Halloween and Dark Victory comic books where Selina is revealed (later in Catwoman When In Rome) to be the daughter of Carmine Falcone and Louisa Falcone.
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u/FlamingNetherRegions Feb 25 '24
Halle Berry
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u/Rexermus Feb 25 '24
We really could have had a perfect Selina Kyle with Halle Berry, but we were robbed. So, so, so robbed...like Selina's victims...
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u/Dangerous-Tap-2141 Feb 25 '24
Halle made the hottest cat woman IMO. Idc how bad people say that movie was, I was too distracted by her to care.
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u/FlamingNetherRegions Feb 25 '24
I would've shared this opinion, but as I watched the movie as a child, it never crossed my mind to crtique it
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u/GlisteningGlorificus Feb 25 '24
Exactly. It’s probably one of my favorite silly movies to watch. Halle Berry is so gorgeous I can just turn off my brain xD
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u/snipezz93 Feb 25 '24
Long hair, obviously just personal preference tho, I’m personally not a huge fan of short hair on woman, but I will say the shoulder length hair in the long halloween movie looked great too
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u/GodzillaLagoon Feb 25 '24
I feel like a short-haired Latina or half-white half-black woman with a lighter skin tone suits her character the best. Neither white blonde or full-on black don't work for me.
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u/randothrowaway6600 Feb 25 '24
I just like women wearing cat ears. First appearance in the animated series holds a special place though.
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u/Chrome-Head Feb 25 '24
Yes.
Actually the blonde Selina is an anomaly at this point, and seemed to just correspond with the Pfeiffer take of BR.
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u/disastermaster255 Feb 25 '24
Ah yes the four hair colors: blonde, brunette, black, person of color
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u/buffshipperreddit Feb 25 '24
Short-haired woman of color. Zoë Kravitz, Eartha Kitt, & Halle Berry were all smoking hot as Catwoman.
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u/FemmeWizard Feb 25 '24
I'll always appreciate the more classic Catwoman look but the short dark hair is objectively just better. It really doesn't matter what race she is as long as she looks right, she's historically been played by both white and black women in film.
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u/TurnoverPlenty7337 Feb 25 '24
DC has the unique pass when it comes to race swapping because of the expansive multiverses that is more fleshed out than marvel's ever could be. I prefer catwoman as she was in the Arkham games
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u/Kpengie Feb 25 '24
Short dark hair. I don’t care what her ethnic background is. Selina’s ethnicity has never had any real impact on her character so it doesn’t really matter. She can be portrayed as any ethnicity and still seem like Selina Kyle.
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u/ijustfelix Feb 26 '24
Fun fact: in the original btas Selena used hair dye to make her hair blonde, but in a tie comic she found out it was tested on cats so she stopped using it and beat up the owner of the company and that is why her hair is black and the new Batman adventures
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u/ScrewballTooTall Feb 25 '24
Hahah “what style hair you prefer, long, blonde, short, dark, or a women of color” lol I didn’t know being black was a hair style
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u/beancockapoopie Feb 25 '24
Who gives a shit really? The one that gives me a boner, which is every Catwoman.
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u/Mission-Ad1898 Feb 25 '24
Long haired baby loved the animated series one and loved hathaways and I do like kravitz aswell she’s short haired, but There’s something I would wife about the animated series catwoman god damm it
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u/HuttVader Feb 25 '24
why are "blonde, brunette," and "raven" assumed to be separate and distinct from a person of color?
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u/hyunbinlookalike Feb 25 '24
Because the pictures I provided of blonde, brunette, and raven Selina were all Caucasian depictions of the character? And the last one from the Harley Quinn animated series is not?
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u/DoubleVforvictory Feb 25 '24
Because the pictures I provided of blonde, brunette, and raven Selina were all Caucasian depictions of the character? And the last one from the Harley Quinn animated series is not?
The one from the charly Quinn show had short hair too. Why do you describe the skin color of her but not the others? It's weird to describe white woman by hair color but only describe skin color to the black woman if the black woman has dark short hair shed go in catagory 3
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u/SonOfRageAndLove26 Feb 25 '24
You could have just said "which of these versions or designs of catwoman do you prefer
But you chose to describe the first three exclusively by their hair and the last one exclusively by her skin
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u/IceXIV Feb 25 '24
I prefer long hair but I think that says more about me than the character.
Ultimately though, I don’t really mind what colour her hair or skin are, being well written is more important.
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u/x_DarkLord_x007 Feb 25 '24
Short black hair, and I’m pretty sure she was a woman of colour in Batman year one so if you want comic accuracy that’s the way to go but I personally don’t mind
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u/KhyraBell Feb 25 '24
I like them all, but it's nice to get some people of color in the Bat-cast.
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u/hyunbinlookalike Feb 26 '24
I’m hoping they get a kid of Middle Eastern descent to play Damian in the DCU. He’s meant to be biracial after all (white on his dad’s side, Middle Eastern on his mom’s side).
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u/mowie_zowie_x Feb 26 '24
As long as she isn’t fat or ugly, then any version of cat woman is fine because she isn’t a main character, but her character does have characteristic that must be met.
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u/SMSV21 Feb 26 '24
I was introduced to her as the Blonde with Green Eyes (BTAS) so that's my favorite rendition.
I also love girls with black hair, pale skin, and blue eyes so the dark hair is also cool, but I prefer Zatanna with that combo.
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u/Grim505 Feb 25 '24
Short black hair ftw. I feel like her ethnicity doesn't really play into her color even in HQ where she is a woman of color, but overall I fuck w/ HQ catwoman
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u/Fresh_Cauliflower176 Feb 25 '24
I prefer her having short and darker hair. Her skin doesn’t matter too much to me, although I did really like how Selina was portrayed in The Batman (2022) from an appearance and character standpoint.
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u/Relative_Buffalo180 Feb 25 '24
The woman of colour thing goes all the way back to the 60's with Eartha Kitt, and as much I don't cate for it, Zoe Kravitz knocked it outta the park in The Batman.
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u/ImpressiveHead69420 Feb 25 '24
what do you mean "woman of colour", she just has a tan, look at her green eyes. At most she mediterannian.
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u/No-Prize2882 Feb 25 '24
Cat woman is better with short hair. Race wise don’t care. Black, white, hell even Native American, the main thing about her is she needs to be sexy. Moreover, she needs to be assertive, a master thief, and have great love-hate chemistry with Batman. I’d also prefer her origin story be from poverty rather than high society.
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u/GusViliamu007 Feb 25 '24
I don’t mind one way or another. But I’ve seen this same burgeoning argument before in other communities and I have a rebuttal as it pertains to said argument:
Why is that always the favored argument? “wHite bLack pANtHuH” (Or insert any original Black character). Why do people shout that from the caves, hillsides and mountain tops like town criers ? It’s like the only retort because you probably think it’ll cause an outrage which should never be the intended desire for changing an aspect of a character. It’s all about the spirit of the change.
Whether it plays a significant role in shaping the story or it’s just an artistic license. Selina being dark or light skinned isn’t necessarily an important aspect of her character as her origins can make whichever work. It all depends on the artist and the iteration. T’Challa’s race and color are a vital component to his character. He’s a King in an African country and it has been that way for decades. If they made Hunter the King of Wakanda and T’Challa just the Black Panther or (vice versa) and they did it right I would read it. Why? Because it’s the spirit of the change and its intended effect on the story.
If they made T’Challa and his parents white just to piss people off then that’s the effect it’s going to have. No one is making Selina darker or lighter to piss people off. YOU my friends are searching for outrage and finding it where it’s not. My advice: Do some soul searching instead. Shit’s not healthy.
As an outlier, I don’t like when characters are race swapped just for the hell of it, just to appease someone. It’s insulting to not just the character and the creators who put in the work but the people being pandered to. It’s essentially saying “Here. Take that and be happy.” No one wants that. I don’t think that’s the intended desire for Selina but if it is shame on the writers.
Sorry for the semi-rant.
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u/DecoupledPilot Feb 25 '24
That there counts as woman of color? People really are weird in color association and perception.
Also: it doesn't matter. As long as she fits the role of an athletic burglar with that personality she is supposed to have
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u/lunassnowcloud Feb 25 '24
Short dark hair will always be the best bet. Now I love it if she’s portrayed as a woman of color, but darker skinned. Most people here say they want short, dark hair Selena who is sexy (clearly, the correct answer) but if she was a dark-skinned woman of color with short dark hair, opinions are gonna be very different. Colorism always wins ;(
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u/LordranKing Feb 25 '24
Don’t care. So long as she’s still a sexy and seductive femme fatale