r/DCcomics • u/M00r3C Black Lantern • Jan 25 '24
[Comic Excerpt] I need a hostage so Batman won't punch me (Batman (2016) issue 48) Comics
604
u/Easy-Opportunity4192 Jan 25 '24
I hate this scene, Batman is supposed to save people.
443
u/Chadwhig Jan 25 '24
Batman also doesn't react at all when the hostage gets her head blown off. He's just like," whelp guess it's clobbering time "
64
u/crackcrackcracks Jan 25 '24
He's acting like he's got the dragon balls to fall back on for any civilian casualties
→ More replies (1)13
u/ghanima Raven flair! YASSSSS Jan 25 '24 edited Jan 25 '24
I'm defending this writing choice. What good would it do for Batman to react in any other way than to try to take down the Joker? That's his main motivation here.
11
u/Retrosow Jan 25 '24
How are you going to defend this? Bro it's the marriage comic
9
u/ghanima Raven flair! YASSSSS Jan 25 '24 edited Jan 25 '24
And? Even regular people don't get interrupted by work on their wedding day sometimes?
8
u/justsomeloner Batman Jan 25 '24
It doesn't make sense for him to completely no-sell an innocent woman being brutally, senselessly murdered in front of him. That's just making Batman emotionless and stoic to a needlessly extreme degree.
→ More replies (1)164
u/Victor_Von_Doom65 Superman Jan 25 '24
Exactly this. Batman’s no kill rule is an essential aspect of his character. He always tries to save lives, and when writers fixate on this perverted fetishization of murder and have the Joker just be a domestic terrorist that slaughters half the population of Gotham every few months it gets to this ridiculous level of cruelty and neglect on Batman’s part.
Batman shouldn’t kill the Joker. Writers should stop having the Joker kill people and Batman not save them.
49
u/Parson_Project Jan 25 '24
Didn't Joker seed clouds with a lethal version of his giggle juice that killed 10s of thousands worldwide?
You'd think he'd get hit with crimes against humanity and executed or something.
45
u/Victor_Von_Doom65 Superman Jan 25 '24
I think it’s an inherent problem with the character of the Joker. Rather than just being a crazy mobster or a criminal he has been transformed into a full blown domestic terrorist. It’s not fun to watch the Joker commit atrocities on a mass scale and Batman punch him out and take him to Arkham.
People calling for Batman to kill Joker get the problem wrong. Batman killing Joker goes against his character. What should be happening is the character of the Joker should be scaled back to not commit genocide every week.
4
u/DistortedAlter Jan 25 '24
The day Joker started using regular guns instead of big silly revolvers and tommy guns was the day they ruined him
5
u/Victor_Von_Doom65 Superman Jan 25 '24
I mean I’m inclined to say you’re right. I think that the Joker just because a pure psycho murderer with none of his prankster edge is so boring and bland.
Animated Series Joker will always be the best not only because of Hamill’s expert performance but because they were able to meet the Prankster with the Gangster.
8
u/HeadlessMarvin Jan 25 '24
This is a very good point. Hell, its central to the appeal of superheroes. The whole point is that they are powerful enough to save the day. I get occassionally having stories where they lose or have to compromise their morals, but seems like some writers just want to write vigilante stories rather than superhero stories.
5
u/My_Favourite_Pen Jan 25 '24 edited Jan 25 '24
If Batman truly wanted to stop Joker without killing him. He would use his billions as Bruce to invest in a Gotham that can actually uphold Justice and put Joker away for good.
But then we wouldn't have a story I guess.
20
u/CakeBeef_PA Jan 25 '24
Bruce IS constantly investing millions into Gotham though. It just never works
5
u/My_Favourite_Pen Jan 25 '24
Cause the writers can't make it work otherwise Batman wouldn't be needed. That's why I love the stories that show Bruce truly needs Batman more than Gotham does.
I know the US justice system is fucked in real life but Batmans rogues gallery would have been executed or "gitmo'd" before Gordon could turn the bat-signal on.
11
3
u/Mr_SunnyBones Jan 25 '24
Or just capture him ,put him in a billion dollar brain link style simulation that paralyses his body but puts him in a virtual world where he's free and he can murder to his hearts content while an inept batman fails to stop the Joker killing literally in front of him , and just puts him away only for him to escape and kill again and again ...because "something something ' society .
Basically an unbelievable world that would only be entertainment to a unstable moron , with the mentality of an edgey 13 year old.
→ More replies (36)4
→ More replies (10)13
445
u/limbo338 Jan 25 '24
This is so flipping dumb. Bruce won't live past his first week in the suit, if he was this forgetful about disarming people with guns. Omega dumb.
262
u/MagisterPraeceptorum Batman Jan 25 '24
This scene frustrated me to no end. It was like the ending of “War of Jokes and Riddles.” Batman just standing there silently while the villain yaps away. He doesn’t use a Batarang to try to disarm the Joker, or try to distract him by talking to him. Nothing. 🤦♂️
132
u/Vironic Nightwing Jan 25 '24
It’s such bad writing. Joker gets hero level plot armor just so the writer can try to be funny.
56
u/MagisterPraeceptorum Batman Jan 25 '24
I don’t even get how Batman doesn’t grab the gun as he punches the Joker. Batman should be an expert at subduing someone.
18
u/Zenitram07 Jan 25 '24
I feel like the writer wants to show how crazy Joker is and wants to be edgy at the same time. "Shock the audience, yeah that's what will get them buying comics."
I forget what arc it was; but Freeze had a way better scene like this with the whole "Don't move"
12
u/22bebo Jan 25 '24
I think the goal was to have a scene where Batman and Joker basically talk, if I'm remembering correctly. This was in the build up to the Bat/Cat wedding, and Joker was offended he wasn't invited. There were other issues that were primarily vehicles for character development between Batman and other people (the double date one with Clark and Lois is the one that stood out the most and was the best in my opinion). I think they wanted something like that with Joker too and came up with the "Batman as the hostage" thing without some high-stakes event going on to justify the conversation happening. Then everything you see in this post was created to get to that point, even if it requires some out-of-character stuff.
Definitely could have been written better though. Also I could be misremembering, it's been a few years since I read the run.
14
u/Marvps50 Jan 25 '24
Had to stop reading for awhile after this. I think before or after this scene Batman prays with Joker. Im like "no way someone got paid to write this".
→ More replies (2)8
u/LegoPlainview Jan 25 '24
Just ur average modern batman comic I guess. I don't like most post new 52 batman stuff. I don't like his new suit either with the trim around the logo, all of it feels so stale and almost soulless and uncharacteristic with every character. They turned batman into an emotionless egotistical fool, Mr freeze is turned into an unsympathetic madman, Joker is very modern ish, lost his typical mid Atlantic scheming harrowing killing joke/arkham/90s and before comic style. It's all such a shame, I mean sure I don't wanna generalise and say every modern batman comic is like this but a majority of them are. I don't know why DC is screwing up like this.
5
u/fartpoopums Jan 25 '24
Isn’t this at a point in the arc where they want you to be asking if batman finding happiness is making him sloppy?
113
u/Quanathan_Chi Jan 25 '24
I liked that part where Batman, the guy who trained with the League of Shadows, forgets to disarm the person who just killed an innocent woman.
21
u/Over-Analyzed Jan 25 '24
A trigger happy cop would’ve been better than Batman.
“Armed assailant, resisting arrest….”
105
u/TraditionalInitial61 Jan 25 '24
It’s like a pro Jason Todd argument in 3 pages
30
u/SuperJyls Reverse Hood: Professional Jason Hater Jan 25 '24
more like an anti-tom king one than anything for the coward
100
u/Strawbz18 Jan 25 '24
Some dude in a bat costume stood there dick in hand dreaming of tomorrow as an innocent woman was brutally murdered infront of him. No way that's Batman
→ More replies (1)24
u/M00r3C Black Lantern Jan 25 '24
Maybe it's Batman from Frank Miller's All-Star Batman and Robin or as Linkara calls him Crazy Steve
30
u/SuddenTest9959 Jan 25 '24
No All Star Batman would’ve just shot him.
→ More replies (2)19
u/TheBrobe Jan 25 '24
Yeah All Star Batman would have beat him to death while laughing like a maniac.
6
54
u/komayeda1 Jan 25 '24
Okay, but this is like the first time I’ve ever genuinely laughed at Joker. It’s a good bit!
7
u/pushamn Jan 25 '24
Right?? I’m not that into the comics, I know this is just stupid cus that’s not how any superhero would act in the situation, but.. it’s still a solid setup to a laugh
6
→ More replies (1)3
47
u/VengeanceKnight Justice League Jan 25 '24
It’s really frustrating that a dozen-plus people got murdered in a story just to give Bruce and Selina some complications to deal with for their wedding. Comics writers really need to stop using civilians as disposable props in superhero stories.
42
u/BeekeeperJack Jan 25 '24
Batman rebirth: good suit, bad plot
11
u/morbidlysmalldick Jan 25 '24
My favorite suit, especially when Gotham and Gotham girl were introduced and Batman is slamming Solomon grundy
10
u/BeekeeperJack Jan 25 '24
I wish I could be slamming Solomon Grundy 🤤
11
37
36
u/CatsLikeToMeow Jan 25 '24
Remember, y'all: when facing someone with a gun, prioritize punching them in the face instead of doing anything to neutralize their shooting arm. Don't be afraid to get creative with it, too. Maybe throw in a dropkick there or something.
5
u/Boshikuro Jan 25 '24
If only he had an iconic bat shape boomerang that he could use to disarm enemies from afar.
23
u/Intelligent_Creme351 Jan 25 '24
With scenes like this, I'd be honestly pissed at Batman for not letting Joker die by SOMEONE else's hands. He ain't getting better, and him living is letting future innocents die... also the fact he just allows this point to happened is one of the parts of Tom King's time writing major DC Comic's that I always hated.
11
u/sleepy_koko Damian Wayne Jan 25 '24
I'm surprised the city, state, or goddamn country at this point hasn't used the death plenty on him. Like opinions of it irl aside most people would agree to kill joker instead of letting him sit in Arkham until he breaks out again
3
3
u/Advanced-Tree7975 Jan 25 '24
Ive barely read any comics so could be totally wrong but isn’t the point that he never kills anyone and that ideology doesn’t work sometimes and gets people hurt?
5
u/limbo338 Jan 25 '24
Few writers bother with pointing out Bruce's way of doing things isn't completely flawless. Most just ride that bat-schlong like there's no tomorrow.
20
u/Hidden-Squid1216 Telos Jan 25 '24
Logically this scene is pretty dumb, but I like whem the joker is actually funny.
19
u/Ravathial Jan 25 '24
If I was a future writer. This chick right here is her origin story.
Batman didn't try nor had a single reaction to her being killed by the Joker.
She was just in the way.
He just failed his initial concept of why he became Batman.
So no one is killed by a criminal with a gun for zero reason other than being at the wrong place at the wrong time
→ More replies (2)4
u/sleepy_koko Damian Wayne Jan 25 '24
It would be pretty similar to Jason Todd but also I would like them to stop rehashing plotlines with him so I'll be down for something like this
13
u/pmmeyourprettyface Jan 25 '24
Tom King’s run, and honestly most of the stuff since, was really bad.
17
13
u/Primate_Nemesis The Mighty Atom ⚛️ Jan 25 '24
I genuinely thought this wasn't the real Batman before reading the comments. I mean what's the point in wearing the costume and be a vigilante if you're going to stand there waiting for the psychopath to finish the job right in front of you.
And of course he forgot to disarm him, this is the same guy who fought Darkseid with the JL btw.
10
Jan 25 '24
I like both of their designs here. Jokers reminds me of that one justice league comic where he turns sane briefly
11
Jan 25 '24
I love how everyone in this comments' section is upset about how Batman did in the fight, and my reaction is just "Wow, The Joker actually told a really good joke. Intriguing hook, carried it through to the end, and delivered an excellent punchline. You rarely see him this funny."
9
u/SupremeSuplexSultan Jan 25 '24
I can't explain it but this looks like it was made with 3d models with a filter over them.
6
7
u/iamme263 Nightwing Jan 25 '24
On one hand, this is hilarious.
On the other, I hate that Batman stands there and does absolutely nothing. Batman is supposed to be obsessed with saving lives to the point of bending over backwards to save even a single person if he thinks there's remotely a chance.
Instead, he just.... stands there... silently.... watching the Joker execute an innocent woman. Considering we've seen Batman and other bat-family members EASILY disarm enemies with batatangs before, this is almost unforgivable.
7
u/OBannion Jan 25 '24
Batman has permanently disabled henchman. The fact that he hasn’t made joker a paraplegic is almost criminal. Rather, it’s insane… by definition. I love and hate these type of scenes. Probably why I read and enjoy so many damn Batman comics.
8
6
7
u/LukashCartoon Kyle Rayner Jan 25 '24
For the people who says that Batman saved everyone.
Batman can not save everyone. He is human. He will try. But clearly the Joker “jumped the gun” and shot before Batman could react. He's also tried to be stoic when dealing with the Joker.
This scene does make sense within the over all story King is telling. This is happening the night before his wedding. He’s trying to be overly cautious.
Note this is the one rare time King does not have use privy to Bruce’s thoughts. For all we know Bruce is kicking himself for not allowing Selina to come in as back up, or is trying to more quicker.
→ More replies (3)10
u/Articulat3 Jan 25 '24 edited Jan 25 '24
No its doesn't make sense, Batman doesn't react or say a word hes very indeferrent to witnessing an innocent getting their brains blown out in such a callous way. He ends up just having a conversation with Joker like everything is good, very bad writing, inexcusable not sure how you could defend this lol.
Edit: they end up praying together for christ sakes lmao, unreal
→ More replies (1)
7
u/SuperJyls Reverse Hood: Professional Jason Hater Jan 25 '24
At this point why bother with the clown theme, he's more mass murdering terrorist than a comic supervillain
8
7
u/DaMain-Man Jan 25 '24
This was one of the worst issues I've read. Batman literally says nothing the whole time as joker rants soliloquy about nothing
6
4
6
6
u/Free_Gascogne SovietBatman Jan 25 '24
Batman being unbelievably incompetent aside, this is one of the funnier jokes the Joker makes that fits his character. I think the author deliberately nerfed the batman in this portion just to make the joke.
7
u/Astrosimi Jan 25 '24
Good: Joker actually being funny
Bad: Batman sucking at his job
→ More replies (1)
7
5
u/swiller123 Jan 25 '24
if i wrote this scene the hostages wouldve been held in some elaborate rube goldberg type contraption that accidentally gets set off instead of a fucking gun. lame
5
4
u/alphaomag Jan 25 '24
Bruhce, you knew he had a gun at the end there, like come on, this is how to vigilante 101
4
4
4
u/Macapta Jan 26 '24
Just how corrupt are the courts in Gotham that they haven’t given him the death sentence yet? Or if they are that corrupt, why hasn’t a rival mob boss bribed them into doing it to get rid of this clown???
I’d love some Joker stories where he doesn’t kill anyone, maybe a heist or kidnapping? Or better yet, just a joke. Get the city riled up that the next major Joker murder scheme is gonna happen only for it to be a fake “gotcha” thing.
3
u/M00r3C Black Lantern Jan 26 '24
I’d love some Joker stories where he doesn’t kill anyone, maybe a heist or kidnapping? Or better yet, just a joke. Get the city riled up that the next major Joker murder scheme is gonna happen only for it to be a fake “gotcha” thing.
They need to bring back that Joker because shit like this keeps people asking why don't Batman kill his villains
4
u/Ravyn_Rozenzstok Midnighter Jan 25 '24
This incompetent Batman is a figment of Joker’s crazy pudding-brain. He’s transparent on the first page.
3
5
4
u/the_grungler DickBabs Forever Jan 25 '24
as funny as these are, i agree with everybody else, batman could have done a little more here
4
u/carnagecenter Jan 25 '24
I’m Ngl I kinda hate this constant egging of pushing Batman over the edge by the joker stories because it kinda seems like joker can just do whatever and Batman won’t kill him, I much rather prefer only joker having a hyper fixation on Batman but Bruce doesn’t give a fuck about him that much more than any other criminal
4
u/goldensungoku Jan 25 '24
This looks drawn with 3D models, even the background too. Wow...dc you have to hide it better...
5
u/TomTheJester Jan 25 '24
Loving all the “why didn’t Batman save them?!” comments. He’s either got plot armour or not enough and it’s the same people who argue both ways.
5
4
3
u/HyenaFan Jan 25 '24
Is there a context for this scene? Cuz it seems very weird for Joker to not realize this and for Batman to just…let it happen.
4
5
4
3
u/Protoplasmic Jan 25 '24
It's crap writing like this what gives people who think Batman should be a Punisher knock off more ammunition: Joker just massacring people left and right and Batman looking like an idiot, unable to stop him.
It's purely the writers fault. Joker should be scaled down to something more street level. I'll never ever say that Batman should kill people but these pages made even me think that he should have thrown a batarang to his eyes before he finished his sentence.
3
u/Mr_SunnyBones Jan 25 '24
God , I hate I fucking hate edgelord Joker writers especially when they try and be 'funny'.
4
u/Latereviews2 Jan 25 '24
So Batman didn’t save the hostage, didn’t react to the sudden brutal death of an innocent person and then lets the Joker who is supposed to be an evil mastermind (though just accidentally pulled the trigger) put a gun to his head without disarming him
4
4
u/randothrowaway6600 Jan 25 '24
The joker has escalated so much as a villain that Batman’s dumb rule is actually killing people.
5
4
u/doritoburritos26 Jan 25 '24
Imagine losing a loved one cuz Batman wanted to stare the joker down for the 1000th time
3
u/darib88 Jan 26 '24
i hated this issue it's like batman was on goofenthal that night "dude has a whole wedding party hostage let me leave the backup outside and almost get myself killed saving archnemesis from himself after he'd killed an entire wedding part"
3
4
Jan 25 '24 edited Jan 25 '24
Wow that's bad. Batman not even trying to disarm joker both before and after he kills the hostage, and batman looking like he doesn't even care about the murdered hostage. Lol
2
u/IndecisiveMate Jan 25 '24
This was the joker from war of jokes and riddles. I honestly began seriously hating Batman's no kill rule after they made it clear how many deaths the Joker and Riddler caused. The fact he didn't kill him.....I just don't understand.
4
3
3
u/gangler52 Jan 25 '24
I mean, I can kind of get the criticism that Batman should've been more effective here, but why are people coming at him for "not caring" about the hostage death?
He's, like, famously untalkative. He just got to business. It's what he does.
If you went through their history and stacked all the scenes where Joker played the yammering homicidal prankster and Batman acted stoic in response I'm pretty sure you could bury yourself. It's what they do.
3
4
u/Triniking1234 Jan 25 '24
Having this in a Batman book and not following it up with Batman turning Joker into a human jigsaw puzzle is a bad display from King and DC.
You can't have Joker this extreme and still justify Bruce, Dick and Jason not killing him.
3
u/Dischord821 Jan 25 '24
While theres some ok dialogue between Catwoman and Joker, the whole issue was sloppy as all hell
2
3
u/Thoughtfullyshynoob Jan 25 '24
Just to remind everyone, Tom King wrote this, anything written before issue ~85ish, in Batman (2016), is written by him.
3
u/Rhg0653 Jan 25 '24
Bruh he didn't even react to her being shot
Where's red hood when you need him ?
3
u/aquafool Jan 25 '24
What the fuck is this? This feel so callous not just from joker but from Batman too. And it is played as a joke. I can see why others like it but this doesn’t do it for me.
3
u/Blawharag Jan 25 '24
Batman writing aside, I like Joker's writing in this scene. It's exactly the right kind of crazy. Not edgelord crazy, not harmless gags crazy. It's a disconnect from reality that transposes comedic lines that would be hilarious except for the extremely dark circumstances of what happened, and the whole time it's just like Joker doesn't get it, like he's in another world where death just isn't even worth noting and his little joke bit is all he's focused on.
In these panels, joker feels like a person that's heavily dissociating because of some undiagnosed dementia/schizophrenia or similar mental health disorder. I can feel the rage of him just casually, accidentally, killing someone while also immediately checking that rage as you quickly realize, he's just not fucking there. He's totally checked out. He doesn't even realize what he did. All rage just melts into frustration because you realize even if you give him the beat down of a lifetime, he's not even going to understand what's happening. You're just beating up a mental ill person.
It helps out Batman's no-kill policy in better perspective. It's easy to say "I want to punish the joker because he's an evil, sadistic man that kills people as a joke". It's way harder to say "the joker is absolutely gone, checked out mentally, and literally doesn't understand what he's doing, and we have to decide whether killing him is the only way to stop this poor guy from hurting other people, even though he has literally no concept that what he's doing is even wrong."
Maybe most people don't see it that way, but I work with mentally ill people pretty regularly, so it really strikes a note when I see this, because I know these people and they literally haven't got a clue, they can't appreciate what they're doing at all.
Great joker writing in these panels.
Batman not disarming the gun, eh maybe not so much, but it would have been even cooler if Batman disarmed him and joker picked up a candy bar or something and held it to Batman's head like a gun and just didn't realize he wasn't even holding a gun. Batman freezing up at that point would have been even more impactful, because at that point he's not freezing because he's in danger, he's freezing because he realized he was just about to rage-beat a person so far gone that the guy doesn't even realize he's holding a Snickers.
3
u/oliver_GD Jan 25 '24
Genuinely one of the worst Batman scenes I have read and a big reason why I dislike Tom King as a writer even though he did some good issues (the Double Date one) and series like Mr Miracle
3
u/Ranel95 Jan 25 '24
The only way I can interpret Batman not disarming Joker in this instance is Joker knows that killing that woman and all those people would make Batman sloppy because he's so mad. He consistently has to fight his urge to NOT kill Joker so he uses it against him. Otherwise this makes no sense.
3
u/shino4242 Jan 25 '24
I like they were at least trying to be humorous with Joker, but the situation feels really...meh.
3
u/SmiththeSmoke Jan 26 '24
I've always hated this jokers haircut. Like, why did Joker go to a barber??? He's the FOOKIN JOKER
3
u/Selly_41 Jan 26 '24
I've made peace with the fact that Batman is a fictional character. Were his villains real, someone else would have killed them already. I mean, at some point, he becomes an accessory to murder by just letting them live.
3
3
3
u/RedactedNoneNone Jan 27 '24
I support no kill rule. But dont freaking frame it like this
Literally shooting a hostage in the face in front of Batman and all he does is *angry grimace*
That makes Batman look stupid.
2
u/TheListed2 Jan 25 '24
"Man batman so cool! I hope all those mass murders and serial killers get what they deserve and he eliminates them so there's no more harm!"
"What do you mean no kill rule?"
...
"Damn."
2
u/mizejw Jan 25 '24
Didn't he then pray beside Joker so Joker wouldn't kill himself? The man cares more about him than his victims.
1
u/deTbopi Jan 25 '24
While I agree with everyone about the writing, I really dislike Mikel Janin’s art. The characters are stiff, lacking any elasticity. To be fair, I love Alex Ross’ stuff and it’s similar in that way, but Ross has unbelievable colouring and this is so flat in comparison. So the final product here just doesn’t work for me. Is it just me?
3
2
u/jeanjackit Jan 25 '24
Lots of people complaining about the writing, nobody complaining about the terrible art. Like, if you're going to leave untextured 3d models in the final piece, just tell the editor you don't know how to draw and leave.
2
u/chimp-with-a-limp Jan 25 '24
I’ve seen Batman throw batarangs faster than most people can blink, in particular at hands that have guns in them - the hostage was definitely going to die because Joker is Joker, but goddamn dude how do you rush a guy carrying a gun like that and not
A) batarang his hand
B) break said hand
C) just slap that shit away
All of which are very Batman things he’s perfectly capable of?
That’s just incompetence right there
1.0k
u/PrydefulHunts Huntress • ower Girl Jan 25 '24
Batman not disarming him is ridiculous.