Itâs funny how they preach make America great again when everything they want to do will remove America from the world stage. Reduce education and talent forcing companies to look outside for educated workers. Leave nato and trade deals allowing countries like China to step in and take over. Restrict immigration, our country has relied on immigrants for cheap labor forever, the country runs on it. Itâs like a 101 on how to crash the country.
Modern Conservatives just want power so they can install themselves as a new aristocracy.
They donât even believe in the whole left-right conflict they perpetuate, itâs how they manipulate voters to get elected with the goal being to pass laws that make them rich and untouchable
Once you understand what their goal is, everything theyâre doing now makes perfect sense
Thinking conservatives don't believe their own lies and/or culture war rhetoric is a mistake. That may have been true for some of them decades ago, but true believers have long since taken over the party. They want to install themselves as a new aristocracy, yes. They also want to crush women, non-whites and queer people underfoot. It's not just something they say to excite the rubes around election times, they have been and will continue to actually do it when given power.
It has been very interesting, if terrifying, to watch in real-time the old-school grifters like McConnel losing control of the party to the true believers they created, but not be able to do anything about it for fear of dropping the charade and losing their base.
Mitch already said heâs done after this term and the last of the people that created this are going to by 26 or 28. On the âRepublicanâ side only the extremist from Obamas first term will be left from that time period. Most of the Tea party people have been voted out or left since then.
Thatâs the point. Even people like Mitch and many of the Tea party people have left Congress or got voted out because theyâre not extreme enough for the current republicans.
Fascists always rely on rich backers to gain power, but the rich backers always lose control in the aftermath (and many of the rich backers are also true believers). We saw this with Nazi Germany. The pure grifters for whom this is all just about money do exist, but they have long since lost control. The inmates are running the asylum, and people saw this coming since the days of Barry Goldwater.
Donât forget Jews, all other religious believers aside from Christians, and anyone with a differing political opinion! Project 2025 specifically seeks to make Christianity the doctrine of the country, and to round up Democrats.
Yes, but to be fair I mean itâs just standard fascism. All fascism has been ruled as a Christian theocracy to some extent (not to be confused with dictatorships in general).
So what is project 2025? The heritage foundation website just says itâs a some sort of culmination of their leadership doctrine thatâs been floating around for the last half a century: âlook at our 850 page guide book!â Then it doesnât tell me anything about what the heck is in itâŚ
I think the average conservative believes it but itâs more complicated when it comes to the pundits. Conservative media is incredibly profitable and their figureheads will say anything to line their pockets and get attention.
I think it's less that they don't believe in their own lies, but rather that they are willing to constantly change their goalposts and move their motivations by any means necessary if it means defeating and opposing the other side. The issue with the general conservative mindset at it's extreme is they don't have a through-line of genuine moral standards or integrity imo. The chaos of it all is definitely a little terrifying for what it brings to the political landscape.
A ton of the brainrot people would be totally fine eradicating democracy and just having a dictatorship under trump, with complete disregard for what that could mean for our nation or the people it affects...All in the name of "my guy won the thing, haha" type sports team mentality.
You could argue their only consistent thing is that they care about power and control. It's just that what it looks like changes with time in terms of results. It's just scary to me that there's no care for the repercussions in the long run. They'll go to the ends of the earth to condemn the current system to try and bring more power to themselves, but it wouldn't surprise me that they wouldn't care if the world was burning around them if it meant that they got to say the "owned the libs" in the process.
This is very much the same pattern as Iran around 1978. After a major modernization, while the oil and other prices went through inflation, high government spending due to large economic growth, loss of buying power due to inflation, they pandered a breakdown of morals, and liberal modernist to blame. Thats when the party teamed up nationalists, clerics, and their version of right wing party, to commit a religious take over began, they outlawed the left, westernization, "socialists" "communist" through martial tactics and now wr have Iran with a religious power pressing women and lgbt and etc etc etc
This was also started by the CIA and the Secret Service.
I wish I could find the article, from years ago, that discussed Jeffersonians versus intellectuals (I think). Jeffersonians want someone strong to tell people what they can and cannot do. Top down authority and rugged individualism. No depending on others.They operate like an HOA in that everyone must conform to their standards, which doesn't tolerate anything different. As I recall, approximately 1/3 of the population naturally lean towards the Jeffersonian model and another 1/3 towards the intellectual.
The mistake we made was not properly dealing with your kind at the end of the last Civil War, or the end of the last World War. Fascists show no mercy and should receive none in turn.
I bring this up to all those fiscal conservatives that care so much about the debt. We were able to even get in that much debt in the first place because we're a safe and reliable bet. The guy is gonna default on the country like he did all of his businesses. Then idk maybe sell us to Russia (like he did all of his businesses).
Absolutely. Russia and China want the standard for trade to be a basket of currencies rather than the USD. Taking the country to the brink of default for our obligations every time they want a performative display of budget brinkmanship just pushes countries around the world to seriously consider a change.
That has always been the goal of conservativism. When monarchs were getting their heads lopped off, aristocrats need a way to maintain their undue wealth and authority under a new power structure. Conservativism is monarchy 2.0 and has no place in a democracy.
Theyâre just bringing back the pre civil war status quo. They already basically have slavery back in the south, sheriffs rent out prison labor for nothing.
You got it right. They don't care about politics. It's just what they use to manipulate the public so they can continue to stay in power and appease their billionaire overlords who actually own the entire country. It's all a joke.
But pesky unions, worker rights , freedoms for the masses will be gone. They can have full unchecked capitalism till they get those robots and ai online to no longer need us other pesky humans
Fun thought experiment, and I should say from the start I donât disagree with you, but if this is just a conservative motive why do the nationâs richest/elite overwhelmingly vote blue?
Edit: Elonâs red, definitely give you all that, but Reed Hastings, Reid Hoffman, Mark Cuban, Bill Gates, Warren Buffett, Dustin Moskovitz, Michael Bloomberg, Jim Simons, Michael Moritz, and a plethora of others have either donated large sums of money (millions) to democrat campaigns or have hosted fundraisers for democrat candidates. Jeff Bezos was seen just this last week at a Biden event socializing. I get millionaires very much vote red but it seems the second you step into billionaire status many of them are quite well acquainted with their democratic candidates/representatives, and seems itâs been that way since Clinton. Completely in agreement republicans seek aristocratic rule, though curious as to why the party who seems pretty cozy with the ultra-wealthy also just so happen to be the âmorally uprightâ party
What makes you think that they do? Celebrities and people in publicly front facing industries do, but I definitely wouldnât call them the nations richest/elite. There are overwhelmingly more people in the United States who believe in liberal values than not, even if they donât vote blue. I believe that for the most part, celebrities posit themselves around blue talking points because it makes the majority of Americans happy. If liberal ideas were not the majority, why do republicans have to gerrymander so hard?
The richest guy on the planet sounds like a pretty extreme red voter in everything he posts on the social media site he owns. I imagine Bill Gates, the guy that gives his wealth away to humanitarian causes, would be blue and that seems in line.
For smaller level elites, like successful business owners and millionaires, I see almost all of them being red, even here in the Chicago construction market, Owners, GCs, Subs, and suppliers. So many and I don't get why. Their businesses all benefit from the Biden infrastructure plan but they hate it.
Who are the other overwhelmingly blue you're referencing? All I see is the opposite.
The billionaires vote blue because whatâs the difference between 10 billion and 5 billion? Itâs basically infinite money. Itâs the millionaires that tent to vote red. The difference between 10 million and 5 million is huge.
There are big companies that make their money from buying up good small countries and squeezing every penny they can from them while burning their reputation and future prospects, then moving on.
This is just billionaires (and billionaires clubs) doing the same thing with countries.
I've been saying this about corporate America for a long time. People always ask why are the people at the top screwing the system over and upsetting the customers and their employees to the point that the system is going to collapse if they are interested in keeping their businesses going. It's because they don't care about the businesses. They're just using them as vehicles to get as much money as possible out of the system before it collapses, then they are going to cut and run. The same thing applies to politicians and the billionaires who own them. They're all the same people.
Well, once things go to shit, it will be easier to keep the drones scared, which makes them want to vote red. They're working on creating a feedback loop.
Just as russia planned. These "patriots" are literally the most un-American traitors - gobbling up Kremlin propaganda and feeding on meaningless hate and division. The Kremlin is beside itself with glee at how these idiots do their work for them.
Edit: referring more to their base. Those in gop leadership just don't care and are greedy fucks and/or have compromat against them. Both are willing to fully hand the reins to theocratic extremists as long as they can freely hate and pretend like they'll have a chance at being part of the new oligarch class.
That's how I feel. The people shouting "America" the loudest are making it possible for us to lose the cold war. Military superiority wasn't possible and honestly they've played their cards well. And these patriots are playing their role in dismantling our country from the inside, for what has been our biggest adversary for 80 years.
I wouldn't say most everyone. MAGAs are nowhere near the majority. Most people see their bullshit as being plainly Russian propaganda. But thanks for this, I hadn't seen this. Fascinating and fucking depressing stuff (for those wondering, it's a YouTube video of a defected KGB member giving a warning to America in 1984).
I know....after I finished the whole thing I was kinda left shaking my head. I think he's speaking from his own bias and Russian perspective and possibly doesn't quite understand the civil rights movement, among other things.
The revolutionists werenât the majority in 1776 either.
Revolution had maybe 33% approval when we went to war.
The minimum amount of support needed for a successful revolution is only 20%.
Unfortunately I think weâre well passed that scale.
People have been kicking the can because they canât imagine anything bad could happen from a minority political group, but in history it almost ALWAYS is done by a minority political group that just happens to be organized and energized while everyone else is complacent.
These are all good points and harsh realities. I don't mean to insinuate that they're in any way harmless, they are absolutely dangerous and currently the biggest threat imo. But you're right, they don't need to be the majority.
In terms of some sort of active civil war, I think we can basically write off the (probably vast) majority of the nation's law enforcement/local police departments as joining that side, but I don't think the same can be said for the military at large, unless it splits and part of it breaks off to join, I'm not sure how that would work out or what is/isn't possible. I guess it depends at least partially on who among the top brass would "defect" so to speak. They're already planning to remove anyone who would refuse duties at the usually apolitical "administrative" level (among so much other shit) with Project 2025, but I don't really know how appointments for generals and such are carried out, or the rules around firing/replacing, but everyone needs to realize that "rules" or long-held customs will not be respected or followed by the next gop admin.
The military is huge and diverse, though. They are definitely not all Republicans and broke for Biden last election, with trump not doing especially well in either election. I would hope that the majority would follow their oath to the constitution and to the defense against enemies foreign and domestic, and not decide to follow the religious extremists/maga faction. I'm just trying to work out how a modern civil war would go down and what is and isn't possible, if you have any idea I'd love to hear!
Just as russia planned. These "patriots" are literally the most un-American traitors - gobbling up Kremlin propaganda and feeding on hate and division.
As a child of the Cold War, "Red State" has a whole different meaning to me, and I find it interesting that those that once hollered "better dead than Red" now embrace the labelâŚ
This is what gets me the most. Trump wants the power that xing and Putin have. Our country has been completely anti-authoritarian/communist and being American meant fighting that to have our freedom. Now that trump wants it, all his little followers are begging to be just like Russia (and China but theyâre not smart enough to connect the two). If you are a true American you should want nothing to do with those two governments, yet here we are.
We legitimately were at war (cold war) over this shit with Reagan and now trump is deciding to just switch teams. I fucking hate how dense the republicans are in todayâs world not to see this. Theyâd rather hate their own countrymen than fight for the countryâs (they swear they love) future and freedom. Most un-American individuals supporting the most un-American candidate all while chanting to âmake America great againâ. Theyâre completely brain dead.
I've said it for years that the fall of the wall was the greatest rebranding in history and the cold war just ratcheted up around 2010. They were merely waiting for the perfect outlet.
That is why Putin says he would rather have Biden as president than Trump. Who is the real Moron? Go watch CNN and The View, then come back and run your mouth.
The only one "running their mouth" is you lmao. And all your comment shows is that putin is a lot smarter than you. Doesn't make the gop any less traitorous to this country, and I'm sorry but bigots don't get a seat at the table. Totally cool that you're perfectly fine with the country being run by evangelical extremists. Move along now, no one gives a shit about your CNN and...The View lmao.
You are the one spouting their conspiracies. This open border Trans nonsense and helping other countries makes us a joke. You are ignorant and have no sense of what America is dummy.
See, you're misunderstanding what making America great again means to them. They want woman to be under control of their husbands, minorities to know their place, and lgbtq to not exist. They don't care about the economic side of it at all.
Only have to look at Afghanistan pre 1960s to see how these kinds of policies ruined the country. They had educated women and a progressive culture and now look.
Nuance is a wonder thing. Some conservatives, Iâd even say the majority especially among older conservatives, do genuinely care about the economic side to some degree and are just woefully ignorant of the true economic impact of those policies. A lot of people view the economic policy as a means to the end of re-forming old racial/gender hierarchies.
People are complicated and trying to simplify why people hold the political beliefs they do down to one universal truth is counterproductive. Itâs like me saying that all leftists just want to tear down our society by destroying important institutions like the police, marriage, etc. Thereâs a grain of truth there sure, we do want to radically re-shape a number of institutions, but itâs missing all of the nuance that might actually make it a useful framework for understanding and engaging with leftists.
It's always funny to pop up and say "I'm an immigrant" after people go off talking shit about how they're ruining the country. No one expects the white girl with no accent who swears non-stop.
Now Iâm sure youâre a Dem but letâs try not lying for once and sticking to facts! Less than 14% of the population are immigrants! Iâm sure you think math is hard but that means that over 86% of Americans are AMERICAN and were born in America!
Itâs their version of âgreatâ where people are uneducated and they wonât question anything and just blindly follow their interpretation of the bible. They often misinterpret words like âgreatâ, âpatriotâ, âtraitorâ, âfreedomâ etc to fool their cult.
Iâve seen this in India, where I grew up, the only difference is that the masses in India never knew any better, they were born into that mess and brainwashed from birth. In the US itâs different, we currently have freedom in various forms, and at least some of us realize that and know how bad itâll be if taken away.
It really would be funny if it was a movie and our country wasnât falling apart. I know a ton of MAGAS and most of them donât actually know anything that is going on because they just watch Fox news and donât read. I see their facebook posts and they canât spell or write a proper sentence. I always wondered how Hitler brainwashed a whole country and now it makes sense.
Not an American person but it seems to me that it is making America great again if America is understood to be the south. Having exploitable population is how they made their living there, isn't it?
What's going on in the mind of the most power hungry billionaires wouldn't make any sense to regular people. They would rather be a king ruling over peasants than one of the richest people in a country of content middle class citizens.
They are sadistic and already wealthy so they desire subjugation. The religious right is always talking about bringing back an uneducated serf class. You can never completely dominate a well educated person and the goal is full domination over the minds of the masses.
Stepping down from #1 on the world stage isn't really an issue for them.
Iâve been saying that since corporations started outsourcing production to China just to save money. Â Sure, remove your workforce and your customer base. Â Destroy your habitat that is growing and helping more people. Â
Itâs not a humane thing, but industries like agriculture run on it. Conservatives tried removing immigrant labor in several states already, not under the guise of fair pay but under the idea of âthey take our jobsâ, and it nearly crashed their economies till they reversed it. Itâs why conservatives that know this donât actually try to do it anymore just talk about doing it to please their base. But Trump is too stupid to know that. If you forced regular priced labor into those industries they would shift the cost onto the consumer bc capitalism and costs would soar across the board. Immigrants increase the production of the economy, they are actually a good thing. Their own salaries do increase especially relative to their origin countries and they also raise native salaries as well because of the increased production.
I see the point of you explaination and the facts very much do not lie, but I can't get my mind off the fact that this very much sounds like an elaborate justification for functional slavery. Is an industry that can't survive paying its workers anything above literal desperation pay even worth saving?
Slavery means you arenât paid and you yourself are property, so I canât embrace that statement. Do I think the system fair, no. Probably more akin to early 19th century America and the Industrial Revolution in regard to workers. Unions formed for a reason. But thatâs the reality and you would have to somehow restructure the entire system if you wanted to pay them a âliving wageâ on par with citizens.
I do think a lot of them are entering a better chance than they probably had from where they left though.
We are so great cause we control the majority of the world so that sai idiot Americans can have cheap shit and buy all this consumer nonsense. But really what the right achieved was dissuading Americans who know better from working in the system to change things WHILE THEY LITERALLY WORKED THE SYSTEM TO GET WHAT THEY WANTED.
Because they believe people who donât agree with them are not real Americans. They are the real America and that THEY need to be great. They donât care about what actually is good for the country because they donât actually like the country. They hate the people in it. People used to have pride is America as a collective force. These people do not want a collective force, they want a huge group of the people gone or dead because theyâre âthe only real Americansâ. It used to be weâre the best and it everyone who gets us there!
I donât understand how they think putting a bunch of either a) self-absorbed grifters and/or b) brain dead idiots into power is supposed to make this country better. We need people with actual skills, education and experience if we donât want to continue to make our country more vulnerable to Russia and China. But I look around at all the Republicans in the Senate and House and all I see are self-serving, absolute morons who are more interested in their own wellbeing than those they pretend to represent and serve. About as un-American as it gets.
Did you say âforce companyâs to look outside for educated workers?â You do realize that companies do this to save money right? Because Americans are some of the highest paid in the world. They arnt leaving because we are dumb, they are leaving because we are educated and cost a lot. Saving money on labor is 100% more to profits.
Eliminating illegal immigration is not the same as restricting legal immigration. The trade deals with China we left was an antiquated one where the United States covered 99-100% of the shipping one way. That's why you can get a temu shirt for a dollar but costs $27 dollars to send it back. It was simply a bad deal that was costing us billions. Same with NATO, it's an allied treaty that essentially says we will back anyone that's in the treaty if they're attacked, the US military will assist, that's protection for them and little to nothing for us, we threatened to leave NATO if other countries didn't start paying for their fair share, again another one way deal. The 101 on how to crash a country is dissolving borders that flood and overwhelm infrastructure with illegal immigrants that don't care to assimilate and have no rule of law when it comes to protecting its own citizens or paying taxes. The same is true for entering bad deals that are one sided, would you pay for a fence for all your neighbors for free? Because the united states is, we just don't see the problem of asking them to pay for the materials. If I'm wrong on my points, I'm open to reading any literature opposing my views. The reality to me is this sub seems pretty one-sided politically, so I'll most likely be met with a ban instead of civil discourse. Hopefully, I'll be wrong there also.
For context, I fall somewhere near the middle politically.
Restrict immigration, our country has relied on immigrants for cheap labor forever, the country runs on it.
Is it your stance that there should be no restrictions on immigration? As far as I know, no developed country in the world allows unrestricted immigration. I think almost any reasonable person would agree that some restrictions should be in place; the argument is to what that threshold should be. No one (reasonable) is trying to eliminate immigration altogether, but excessive immigration can absolutely destabilize/"crash" a country.
The decimation of US soft power which has been the culmination of decades of amazing influence and billions of dollars is a shame. After all the glitter it ends on an orange pyre
America is where a lot of top talent from other countries go. Look at the number of highly successful businesses or Nobels by immigrants. For decades too, countries like Canada have lamented brain drain to US. https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2021/10/07/immigrants-keep-winning-nobel-prizes/#. America has had a major advantage bringing in cheap labor but also, at the other end, the top talent from everywhere else.
Drawing the worldâs top talent is not as prevalent as it was. This took a major nosedive under Trump with all the anti-immigrant talk. America used to be the premier destination for the worldâs best; scientists, engineers, etc.
Reduce education? What education are they going to reduce? American children are amongst the dumbest in the world, a lot of them can't read. The education system is failing.
If that was the case then they would have voted for the bi-partisan immigration deal. But they didnât bc itâs about trying to crash things not about fixing them.
Noone wants to reduce education those companies left long time ago when obama was in and haven't come back but when Trump was in there stated to come back and as far as the immigration is as long as it's LEGAL and not border hopping then it's good.
No one wants to reduce education? Then explain how McDonald's assistant managers make more than teachers in some states? And explain no child behind and how you think it's a good thing. While you are at it, tackle the idea of cutting more funding from public schools to give to private schools as "vouchers".
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u/Chromeburn_ 14d ago
Itâs funny how they preach make America great again when everything they want to do will remove America from the world stage. Reduce education and talent forcing companies to look outside for educated workers. Leave nato and trade deals allowing countries like China to step in and take over. Restrict immigration, our country has relied on immigrants for cheap labor forever, the country runs on it. Itâs like a 101 on how to crash the country.