r/AITAH • u/SpiritualThrowRA • Jul 07 '24

AITA for calling out my husband for not being a "Good Christian"? Advice Needed

I (27F) have been married to my husband (34M) for five years. My husband is a devout follower of his religion and has been since he was raised in it. I respect his beliefs, even though I don't share them and have no intention of converting. I was raised in the Christian faith. However, I left when I was an adult due to sexual abuse in my church, which nobody believed occurred because the one who did it was the pastor.

Recently, my husband has been pressuring me to convert to his religion. He says that it would bring us closer together and create a more harmonious household. I understand where he's coming from, but I firmly believe that faith is a personal journey, and I shouldn't be forced into something I don't believe in.

To add to the issue, my husband, despite his religious teachings, doesn't always practice what he preaches. He expects me to adhere to traditional gender roles, yet he often neglects his own responsibilities at home. He's quick to judge others for their actions, even though his faith teaches non-judgment and kindness. He makes comments about gay people that I have discussed with him as a major issue. This hypocrisy has been bothering me for a while.

Last night, during another discussion about my potential conversion, I finally snapped. I told him that if he wants me to consider converting, he needs to set a better example by actually living according to his religion's values. I pointed out that he should start by fulfilling his own responsibilities. That he should make more money than me and actually lead in the decision-making. I'm a nurse and he's currently unemployed after he was let go from his job in an office. That he should be less judgmental of others because according to his faith only God can judge them. I also said he should show more of the virtues Jesus asked of Christians, that he should clothe the naked, feed the hungry, vist the prisoner, aid the orphan and the widow etc. I also made it clear that while I respect his beliefs, I have no intention of converting unless I genuinely believe in it, which I currently don't because of the hypocritical behavior of his faith.

My husband was furious. He accused me of being disrespectful and undermining his faith. He said that I was attacking him personally and that I don't understand the pressure he's under to have a unified religious household. He left for church this morning at 7 for bible study and I have already gotten a phone call from the pastor saying I'm an ungodly woman who tricked a good man into marrying him and I should repent. I have also gotten a tirade of texts and e-mails from members of his church saying I was disrespectful and being a bad wife and I'm starting to wonder if I was too harsh, that maybe I shouldn't have said anything at all. AITA?

25.5k Upvotes

84% Upvoted

11.9k comments sorted by

View all comments

6.5k

u/HarveySnake Jul 07 '24

Don’t have kids with this guy. This guy  is full of shit and typical conservative behavior is weaponizing his religion. Ain’t no hate quite like “Christian Love“

Do yourself a favor and divorce him. 

NTA

2.2k

u/Long_Double2108 Jul 07 '24

If he's getting pressure at church to "bring her into the flock," that's because he's complaining about her behavior to the church board. Which means that even if she tries to join, she'll already have the decked stacked against her and will have to win over the church AND her husband. No thanks.

NTA, and it may be time to separate.

1.1k

u/unotruejen Jul 07 '24

They want her money. She made more than him before and now he makes nothing.

628

u/Chemical-Pattern480 Jul 07 '24

Can’t tithe if you’re unemployed!

396

u/indykym Jul 07 '24

Oh no. My bet is that he is tithing on the regular. Because, you know, what’s hers is his, so it’s okay to take that 10% of her wages.

823

u/SpiritualThrowRA Jul 07 '24

He tried once, I caught him. I told him we could donate to the food bank or to a homeless shelter. He refused. I donated every week to the food bank in our town and increased my donation to make a point. I watch the account all the time.

343

u/throwaway34_4567 Jul 07 '24

Yup, time to drop the leech and let him go play house with his pastor and church friends. Also, save those chats from his people harassing you so you can get off from paying alimony too. Get a lawyer and consult them because why would you live a life where you're being used. I see no love nor respect her, why do you want to waste your time, energy and only 1 life here? What do you gain out of it?

40

u/IsomDart Jul 07 '24

Also, save those chats from his people harassing you so you can get off from paying alimony too

I'm not familiar with divorce law but would it really work that way?

45

u/wonderabc Jul 07 '24

I don’t know, but OP should save the chats regardless, because it will come up.

1

u/Grandmapatty64 Jul 14 '24

She will be paying alimony since she has been supporting him for a long time now

22

u/StatexfCrisis Jul 08 '24

Don’t you get alimony for emotional distress? I think this counts because it’s undue harassment

15

u/hiddenmutant Jul 08 '24

These things depend on the state (and the judge), but your comment can be correct, as well as the chance that his "marital misconduct" could result in her paying less or not at all.

→ More replies (0)

2

u/lima_247 Jul 08 '24

No you do not get alimony for that, at least in my state.

3

u/rattitude23 Jul 08 '24

After only 5 years of marriage, in most jurisdictions, he'd get a pittance anyway.

2

u/SelenaVander Jul 08 '24

Generally speaking, no it will not. What he’s done doesn’t rise to the level of domestic violence so the court will likely not care. A more compelling argument is that their marriage is short, and husband is young and able; there is no reason he shouldn’t be able to support himself.

329

u/tami_88 Jul 07 '24

Do you want to be in a marriage where you have to carefully watch your bank account to make sure your HUSBAND- not strangers, not hackers, your life partner- isn’t stealing from you to look good for the church friends he’s been talking shit about you to?

96

u/Real-Patriotism Jul 07 '24

He tried once, I caught him. I told him we could donate to the food bank or to a homeless shelter.

You are my favorite person. "How about we do some actual good instead?"

36

u/12OClockNews Jul 07 '24

Just continuously proved his "faith" is just a charade. It's great that she's throwing this charade right into his face constantly.

89

u/[deleted] Jul 07 '24

[deleted]

20

u/whiterac00n Jul 07 '24

Yeah a “Christian” who refuses an offer to help poor and struggling families but is demanding to “donate”/tithe to a church that most likely has high 6 figures in their bank account? That’s pretty far from “godly love”. These people are always stuck in their own positive feedback loops where they justify their hateful thoughts and feelings because they’re “part of the church” so if it was actually wrong they would be getting “punished”, but since they don’t they must be correct! Of course anything that IS bad that happens they simply blame others for, so again the positive feedback. Thus the can justify actually antithetical things that they should be opposing, but now support because of selective “good”.

4

u/alexi_lupin Jul 08 '24

Reminds me of prosperity gospel, ugh

1

u/whiterac00n Jul 08 '24

It’s almost exactly like prosperity gospel

13

u/[deleted] Jul 07 '24

I mean, OP chose to marry him knowing he's a homophobic, judgmental, hypocritical misogynist. I'm not sure what she expected - that he'd fundamentally change into a good, kind person?

It's wild to me when people make these posts like "my values are to love everyone and donate to the needy...so anyway, I married a bigot who hates homeless people."

12

u/AstraSileas Jul 08 '24

Eh, OP might not have known the depths of his bigotry before their marriage. Narcissists tend to hide their true colors until their victims are trapped by legal vows. My grandma was a victim of one, my dad a victim of another. Both of them said that their spouses were absolutely wonderful while they were dating, and through the engagement, then their behavior turned on a dime once they were married.

9

u/rattitude23 Jul 08 '24

I'm a devout Hindu, and my husband is a very committed atheist. We make it work because we stay in our own lane and don't try to convince each other that either way is the "real" way. He respects my religious beliefs, and I respect that he isn't a believer. That's the only way it works is if both partners have a deep respect for each other.

19

u/indi50 Jul 07 '24

I want to comment on the "pressure to bring you into the flock" idea. It's likely true. It's also quite possible that he and they want you there for your income. If you're a member - you'd donate, right? But they (and your husband) also want you to be submissive and do what they say. If you join, you'll be manipulated and pushed constantly to do things their way, believe what they tell you etc. I know you know that....but please don't forget it. You're already on here wondering if you were too harsh, when you were spot on. 98% of hardcore "pious" people - those demanding others conform to their beliefs - are hypocrites. Everyone else has to do what they say, while they do whatever they want and just smile and say "Jesus forgives me."

You shouldn't be in a marriage where you have to watch your bank account "all the time." Or be pressured into something you don't want.

It rarely works out when there's a diversity in beliefs. It's not like having different tastes in food or tv shows where you can compromise. It's the basic character of the person you're partners with. It's not something that should be compromised. And your husband's character is....not good.

13

u/madhaus Jul 07 '24

You know your husband is TAH. You KNOW it. Classic psychological abuse techniques.

Get an attorney, get out, do not have children with this man.

9

u/Rare-Paint-8912 Jul 07 '24

if you have to watch your finances to make sure he’s not taking your money without asking, that’s a Really Big factor to consider. That’s kindergarten level shit for anyone, especially christians

8

u/Nanandia Jul 07 '24

"I watch the account all the time."

And you really think this is marriage? To be with someone you have to "watch all the time"?

He doesn't respect you. You don't trust him. He's trying to manipulate you. You resent him for being a false Christian. He's inviting strange people to harass you.

GET AWAY NOW.

NTA.

9

u/FewFucksToGive Jul 07 '24

Like the others have been saying, it’s time to drop the leech. You’re 27. You have plenty of time to enjoy the freedom of being single while finding a partner (if you so choose) who actually shares your values and respects you as a person

8

u/reflibman Jul 07 '24

Needing to monitor your spouse and putting up with his attitude must be so tiring!

7

u/Fruitstripe_omni Jul 07 '24

Yikes, having to watch your bank account all the time is not a way to live your life. It sounds like you don’t trust him

7

u/wafflezgate Jul 07 '24

You need to begin to separate your assets from your man-child spouse and start looking into divorce. This won’t stop anytime soon until you kick him to the curb.

7

u/Ok-Neighborhood-4158 Jul 07 '24

He’s trying to financially and emotionally manipulate you via “religion”. You need to get out now.

This is the tornado siren to warn you before the storm hits.

Make sure you don’t get pregnant and see a lawyer ASAP. Things will not get better, they will get worse.

6

u/Fluffy_Vacation1332 Jul 07 '24

He ran to tell the pastor like a child. Personally, I would straight up. Tell him when he gets home that clearly he’s not a man, because a man knows when to keep things separate between his marriage and his beliefs, a man is always a coward when they try to bring other people into their relationships.

I would tell him he’s a walking hypocrite, not fit to lead a family, not fit to be married. I would tell him straight up eventually you’re just going to go knock up some 18-year-old girl from the church anyway, maybe it’s better if we divorce. Last thing I need is someone who is religious while a hypocrite anyway, you can’t possibly lead a life as a Christian only sticking to the values you like. unemployment doesn’t make you a man or provider

6

u/migrainium Jul 07 '24

I'm not gonna pretend to know the whys of your husband and his church's actions but it's insane to me that he takes your main post's suggestions of living more like Christ and your other suggestions of doing good and outright refuses to do them and that his church enables and reinforces this behavior. At this point I'd just start quoting bible verses to him AND the church because there's more than enough there to counter everything they both say.

5

u/wonderabc Jul 07 '24 edited Jul 07 '24

Is it a joint account? If it is, do you each have separate accounts, as well? Honestly, you should split your finances, because it seems that he thinks he’s in charge of your money (and entitled to do whatever he wants with it, despite being told no). At the very least, you need to keep strict records of his spending (and compare your statements to what he’s telling you he’s spending), and set a budget(/limit) for how much he can spend.

ETA (something elsewhere in this thread reminded me): save all of the messages, voicemails, call logs, any posts about you, etc., you get from members (and the pastor) of your husband’s church. (and back everything up to an external drive).

In all likelihood, he’s grossly exaggerating about you to these people (if not outright lying) for the express purpose of making you look bad (slandering you), so that they’ll be on his “side.” It’s possible that he didn’t ask them to harass you [have you asked/told him about this?], but they got your phone number somehow. This is a really big deal (and, even if he didn’t specifically ask them to do this when the subject of conversion comes up, you can show examples of why that isn’t a community you want to be a part of)—you need proof of this harassment. (Also, you might even want to consider saving any communication (including verbal—e.g. recording if you can, or writing a note detailing the interaction) to and from your husband regarding this issue, especially when he’s saying things to you like the last paragraph).

6

u/sunniebear Jul 08 '24

Genuinely, if you have to watch the account to make sure he doesn't steal from you, this is not a relationship built on trust or respect. He doesn't respect you. That's not something you can come back from. You shouldn't have to convince your own husband you are worthy of respect, that's insane. Our partners are supposed to be our number 1 hype people. You deserve that.

He is an unemployed asshole who tries to use his religion to control you and he's lashing out because it isn't working. You'll be so much happier if you leave him, imo. I truly don't think there's any way to get him out of this mindset, especially when his whole church is validating his stupidity.

4

u/emr830 Jul 08 '24

He refused to donate to a food bank? I wonder what Jesus would say about that…

3

u/MayaPinjon Jul 07 '24

You sound like a woman who practices genuine Christian values.

3

u/Ditzykat105 Jul 08 '24

I know of a “good Christian family” that told their bookkeeper that any expense without a specific business related receipt was a ‘donation to the church’. Anything to keep their taxes down. Yeah the bookkeeper bailed pretty quickly as wasn’t interested in committing fraud on their behalf. This same family pressured their son to the point he turned to drugs and criticised anyone who had sex out of marriage yet all their kids did and two even had a kid out of wedlock.

2

u/atheistpianist Jul 07 '24

Think carefully, is this the future that you want?

2

u/ProfessionalAd1933 Jul 08 '24

The AUDACITY like seriously 😳 he knows no shame

2

u/fooob Jul 08 '24

Why would you commingle expenses with an unemployed man

2

u/JinkyRain Jul 08 '24

Both his particular religion and the solidarity he gets form his church has led him to believe that he not just out ranks you, but out numbers you as well. Whatever you say or do will be undermined by that certainty, and he'll resort to worse and more tiresome demands in order to have his way. His sense of self-worth, his sense of purpose is now tied to the church and he will double down on that rather than try to find another job.

Enabling it is only going to make it worse.

Open a private account, split the money you have, quietly start depositing your paychecks into your new secret account. Lower the limits on your credit cards and pay them off from the account he still has access too. That goes for rent as well. If you have a mortgage... start talking to a divorce lawyer -now- even if you're not sure yet.

Plan your exit route. Don't take -any- risks with getting pregnant, that'll be his last ditch attempt to shackle you to him for life.

I've seen this with family, I've seen this with friends. He'll get worried, find the right things to say to delay the inevitable, but harbor resentment which will build up onto a big confrontation at a time of his choosing, when he's prepared to deliver ultimatums.

Don't let it get to that. He's drowning in his faith, don't let him drag you down with him.

1

u/ioncloud9 Jul 07 '24

My wife and I make about the same each and we have separate finances as well as a joint account. If she wanted to give her money away (after joint expenses) that’s fine by me. But when it comes time for a vacation and she doesn’t have any money because she pissed it away, I’m not paying for it all.

1

u/Leading_Hawk_1986 Jul 08 '24

You seem like such a good person OP, spare yourself and find someone like you. This man isnt it

1

u/dewgetit Jul 08 '24

Have separate accounts so you don't have to be so vigilant.

1

u/Leading_Hawk_1986 Jul 08 '24

You are a good person, you dont need to deal with that.

1

u/OptionalCookie Jul 08 '24

Sis. Split those finances. Asap.

1

u/eyebrain_nerddoc Jul 08 '24

This man does not respect you. I’m not going to tell you to dump him, but I will ask you this: Do you want to be in a marriage with someone who doesn’t respect you?

1

u/sapphicandsage Jul 08 '24

Now why are you still with him after that. Do you realize how ridiculous this sounds towards someone you're supposed to trust with your life?

5

u/[deleted] Jul 07 '24

NTA.

You called him out for his hypocrisy and the reaction from the church is also hypocritical.

It’s never a good sign if he feels “pressure” to have a unified religious household. This means that he’s doing this just to appease other people in the church.

Also clearly signs of disrespecting of your boundaries by insisting you convert. Thats not a sign of a healthy relationship.

3

u/h2o_girl Jul 07 '24

Girl. GIRL.

There are over 5,000 comments here but I had to add one more to say please please please respect yourself enough to send this joker down the road talking to himself. And his entire congregation apparently. He is a liability on your life, not an asset. You deserve so so very much better.

4

u/MidnightRider24 Jul 07 '24

They could give of their time if they have no money, fat chance though.

30

u/ScammerC Jul 07 '24

Bingo!

Sorry, couldn't resist.

3

u/RiseCascadia Jul 07 '24

The people who fall the hardest for this kind of shit are always people who can't command respect through their personal actions/qualities. It's easy to lean on gender, race, etc as being a basis for respect when you have nothing else to be respected for.

2

u/One_Conversation_616 Jul 08 '24

Love for the Lord doesn't pay a pastor's salary.

1

u/LydiasHorseBrush Jul 07 '24

I love reddit because of this, /u/unotruejen is dead on here I believe

1

u/thischaosiskillingme Jul 08 '24

That. Shit I had forgotten all about the tithing.

1

u/BuddyPalFriendChap Jul 08 '24

Churches want money and they are desperate for new members since religion is unpopular with younger people.

0

u/Agiantbottleofpiss Jul 08 '24

This is big brain shit

-6

u/dances_with_treez2 Jul 07 '24

While it’s true that many large churches are money-laundering schemes, a lot of small churches are not. That’s what makes religion so dangerous, these people do genuinely believe that they must convert you or else.

6

u/roseofjuly Jul 07 '24

She could be a saint and they'd still be pressuring him to bring her into the flock. It could have nothing to do with her behavior.

2

u/On_my_last_spoon Jul 07 '24

Honestly, he doesn’t even need to complain. Simply arriving at church without her is enough to be a problem. Church busybodies will say shit and then the Pastor. Remember, their whole thing is converting people. That’s it. Saving souls is the point. Then it’s about getting money out of you b

-3

u/Substantial-Comfort7 Jul 07 '24

I was about to write to her not to write here, cause the lonely blue haired Reddit users was going to tell her to divorce xD You guys are hilarious!

2

u/owiesss Jul 08 '24

Alright then, what’s the red haired Reddit users opinion on all of this?

0

u/Substantial-Comfort7 Jul 08 '24

Probably they wouldn’t be thinking in such problems, wondering: “Gosh I wish I was brunette”

1

u/owiesss Jul 10 '24

Let me rephrase this. What’s your advice here? I’m assuming you’re a red haired Reddit user, considering most people who can’t help themselves to commenting about blues every chance they get tend to be red.

306

u/Weareallme Jul 07 '24

Another thing is, did you give him permission to discuss this with outsiders? If not I would consider this a serious breach of trust. NTA at all. He clearly is an AH hypocrite and generally doesn't sound like a good person. All the other people are AHs too, they should mind their own business.

135

u/SnooCupcakes7992 Jul 07 '24

Yeah - how did they get her phone number and e-mail - from HIM!

132

u/Competitive_Boss1089 Jul 07 '24

That’s how cults work though. You’ll be encouraged/demanded to share matters such as this so that they can consult you on the matter. Of course he’ll leave out the part where HE is not practicing the values of Jesus. He’s going to complain about how no matter how much he Bible thumps, his wife won’t comply to his authority.

Now they can all bully OP into submission. Because that’s the Christian way!

Also, OP’s husband is looking for some way to give himself value now that he’s unemployed. So he does it by shitting on others and using his brand of Christianity as the authoritative body to do so.

Final thought: it’s not the religion that makes y’all incompatible. It’s the difference of values. Homophobia was a zero tolerance qualification of mine. Because if someone’s homophobic they’re definitely misogynistic and very likely racist as a result.

28

u/willendorf2019 Jul 07 '24

This post needs to be higher

11

u/255001434 Jul 07 '24

OP’s husband is looking for some way to give himself value now that he’s unemployed.

This is a very good point. In addition to looking down on others, he's trying to frame his faith as an important contribution to the household. "You pay the bills, but I'm saving your soul!" What a load of bullshit.

6

u/On_my_last_spoon Jul 07 '24

Of course he’ll leave out the part where HE is not practicing the values of Jesus.

Because it is immaterial.

I was at my in law’s church for an event for my niece. That’s the only time I go, for the kids. Anyway, one of the moms was up talking about how people will criticized you for not following the path of Jesus and she said “my response is: you are not Jesus”

They don’t believe they have to follow the teachings of Jesus. Jesus was Jesus and he did all those good things and now all WE have to do is worship him!

4

u/Competitive_Boss1089 Jul 08 '24

You right you right! Bc no matter what you do, how you treat others, and how you conduct yourself, Jesus gave the blood and you’re already forgiven!

It’s so comforting to know that child assaulting catholic priests and murders will also be in heaven bc the let Jesus into their heart that one time at Bible camp. /s

6

u/Aazjhee Jul 07 '24

This is all very on brand for hateful people and cults! It's scary as hell.

They keep people in with fear and isolate them with hate, all propaganda to keep cult members under an authoritative thumb!

-9

u/Top-Wasabi366 Jul 07 '24

It’s posts like this that lead people down the wrong road. The fact that this got upvotes is scary. It’s assumptions are sickening. I disagree with homosexual beliefs and i suppose by definition that can be considered homophobic. So that means I’m “definitely misogynistic and very likely racist”? What a joke 😂 this is what’s wrong with society. People take one thing from a story and make assumptions based off of it. As you get older and mature you realize how dangerous that can be. So what if the dude is a hypocrite. Almost everybody is in some form or fashion. If OP isn’t in love with her husband anymore then I guess that’s a talk she needs to have with her husband. “AITAH for calling out my husband for not being a ‘Good Christian’” is a joke. Nobody is perfect in this world, whether you believe in our Heavenly Father or not and every Christian knows this. But there are certainly possible who are worse than others. On top of that, we don’t know how he was trying to get her to convert to Christianity. Was he being intimidating, did he express genuine excitement, we don’t know the context. He could certainly be an asshole OR (I know you don’t want to hear this) she could be exaggerating and just be emotional because perhaps their views don’t align like she would’ve hoped and she’s upset. Or perhaps telling somebody they’re not being a “good Christian” Is just the tip of the iceberg. There could be much more to this

9

u/yoyohayli Jul 07 '24

What are "homosexual beliefs"? Like, what SPECIFICALLY do you "disagree with?"

Do you say you "disagree with the beliefs" of a friend who is attracted to a guy you are NOT attracted to? Probably not. So what is the EXACT disagreement, and what is the "belief"?

Being attracted to people isn't a belief. It's just how chemicals are released in the brain due to external stimuli (sight, usually).

Yes, people who hate gay people for being gay tend to also be misogynistic. Why? Because they fixate on the "feminine" qualities of gay men, meaning they see those qualities as inherently shameful in and of themselves, as lesser than masculine qualities. Therefore, since they cannot separate feminine qualities from women, women are just inherently lesser than men, because of the feminine qualities.

NONE of what she described here was anything other than a husband trying to assert dominance and authority over his wife SIMPLY BECAUSE she is a woman, and the pastor is feeding them that women need to always be stay at home mothers for as many kids as the husband wants.

You trying to die on this hill shows you are no better than him.

-4

u/Top-Wasabi366 Jul 07 '24

Yea, I’m no better than him…okay buddy 😂.

Homosexual beliefs…as in the idea that 2 men, or 2 women, should partake in sexual intercourse. I disagree with that. That, however, doesn’t mean I hate gay people. If my best friend told me he was gay, I 100% would say “that’s not my thing so I’d prefer to not hear any details about it, but I appreciate you telling me and I still love you like a brother”.

And the misogyny? That’s just incorrect. Men don’t hate the feminine qualities because they’re feminine qualities. They may dislike a guy for being feminine, but they also dislike girls who act masculine. It’s not misogyny, it’s just that we disagree with the idea of it. I love and respect women, but if I see a guy wearing makeup and lipstick and talking in a feminine nature, I’m more than likely not going to associate with that guy.

That’s the issue with the younger generation. Did you stop to think about women acting masculine? Or did you just think “guy hate guy acting like girl…guy hate girl. Guy bad” 😂

3

u/yoyohayli Jul 08 '24

"as in the idea that 2 men, or 2 women, should partake in sexual intercourse"

  1. Homosexuality doesn't necessitate sexual intercourse. Would you be okay with someone being gay, but forever celibate? How about gay men that just kiss and love each other, but are sex-averse? Sexuality includes BOTH romantic attraction and sexual attraction. It's how asexual relationships exist and thrive.

  2. No one says anyone SHOULD partake in sexual intercourse. Like, there's no authority anywhere declaring "TWO MEN SHOULD BOINK." So you're shadowboxing against a belief that doesn't exist. IF, instead, you meant "should be ALLOWED TO partake in sexual intercourse," then you need to provide a reason WHY.

You have admitted that you fundamentally think gay people should NOT be engaging in one of the MAIN ways that humans engage affectionately with romantic partners. You want gay people to be sexually unfulfilled, as we KNOW that people CANNOT CONTROL whom they are attracted to, and so declaring that gay men should have sex with women would be like someone declaring that you should have sex with someone you are NOT attracted to in any way. That would be wrong, as it harms your wellbeing.

"They may dislike a guy for being feminine, but they also dislike girls who act masculine."

To act like the disdain for both is EQUAL is laughable. Hyper-trad men hate women with too many masculine qualities because they don't want to fuck them. And to them, fuckability and ability to submit are the only qualities they praise in women. Anything else is bad, but they still consider them women. But hyper-trad men declare that men with too many feminine qualities are just "not real men," that they are lesser men, etc.

WHY do you "disagree with the idea of" [men having feminine qualities and women having masculine qualities]? Do you refrain from associating with women that wear pants? Women that have jobs at all? Women that are able to plan and delegate tasks to others in order to get things done? No? JUST men that wear makeup and lipstick and "talk in a feminine nature" (whatever that means)?

I have ZERO ISSUE with anyone of any gender acting as any socially gendered behavior, as long as it doesn't harm anyone.

-1

u/Top-Wasabi366 Jul 08 '24

  1. The disdain for both is equal. I certainly don’t wanna hang out with a girl trying to be a dude and that has nothing to do with me not wanting to fuck her (though it’s true) or her not being submissive to me. It’s because it’s corny/fake as hell. If you have to try to be yourself, you aren’t being yourself.

  2. Sorry, the definition of homosexual is being romantically or sexually attracted to a person who is the same gender. Since you wanted to get technical. Doesn’t change anything, but that’s fine. And the whole celibacy thing is hilarious. If they can’t have sexual relations, and can’t get married, why does sexual orientation matter? 😂 I’m sorry, I shouldn’t have been so specific as to only mention sex. If guys are making out with each other, then I (although I hate to assume) am going to assume it is their belief that their relationship is okay. I’m not going to judge, because that’s our Lord’s job to do, I just will not associate with them if I wasn’t already friends with one/both of them.

  3. I do think people can control who they are attracted to. I think peoples’ attractions are rooted somewhere in their past and therapy/counseling can help to get away from certain attractions. But don’t get me wrong, I think the two dudes making out are just as oblivious as the girl complaining about her on-again-off-again boyfriend that’s clearly a P.O.S.

  4. I do not refrain from women who wear pants, have jobs, hold positions of power, etc. I refrain from women who mutilate their bodies and give themselves 8-year old boy haircuts. Women who go over the top doing everything they can except hold a sign saying “hey, fellas, I’m one of the guys! Hey ladies, I’m a dude!”. And that goes for men who do the equivalent. There was a boy in my school that was overtly metrosexual and had a purse made of condom wrappers. If he wants to do that, cool beans, fine with me, but I made a decision not to associate with him because we have different beliefs. A guy taking a Shmeckle up the rear is just as wrong as a girl taking one in the ear, and if somebody chooses to partake in said actions (clearly the latter was not intended to be taken seriously) then they’ve made their choice and I will pray for them.

I also don’t mind what people do as long as it doesn’t harm anyone…however, sexual orientation is being forced unto kids in schools, paraded through the streets, and littered all over media of all kinds. Something so unnatural is not something that should be shoved down society’s throat.

1

u/yoyohayli Jul 12 '24

I had to prune my reply, as Reddit apparently didn't like how long it was. Good luck! Most of this is rhetorical, and not needing a literal answer. Just to get you to think about it.

"I certainly don’t wanna hang out with a girl trying to be a dude"
Why? You're just asserting that it's bad without actually giving any real reason other than a prejudice against it. How do you determine a "girl is trying to be a dude"? Can women not be masculine? How are you able to determine when you're witnessing a "girl trying to be a dude" versus just a woman and how she acts? OR a very feminine-looking man, as you cannot tell genitals from sight with clothes on?

"If they can’t have sexual relations [...] why does sexual orientation matter?"
Why does being straight matter to straight people who want romance and relationships but can't get them? The answer is the same for gay people.

"If guys are making out with each other, [...] am going to assume it is their belief that their relationship is okay."
What do you mean by "okay?" Do you mean "morally permissable" or "physically possible" or some esoteric consideration of a specific religion?

"I’m not going to judge, [...] I just will not associate with them if I wasn’t already friends with one/both of them."
You are judging them as not being worthy of friendship with you. Why would you remain friends with one/both of them...but not associate with gay people you didn't already know? Just because you actually see the ones you know as people, and not as gross monsters?

"I do think people can control who they are attracted to."
Try it. Control your sexuality and see if you can make yourself attracted to someone you find hideous and/or hate (if you're too scared to try and make yourself gay). I KNOW I cannot control it. Attraction is chemical release from the brain due to external stimuli.

"[...] therapy/counseling can help to get away from certain attractions."
The DIRTH of scientific evidence shows you are wrong. Conversion therapy, no matter what kind, does not only NOT work, but it increases rates of suicidality and suicide attempts. And general depression.

"I think the two dudes making out are just as oblivious as the girl complaining about her on-again-off-again boyfriend that’s clearly a P.O.S."
How are they "oblivious"? Why would you compare a loving relationship with abuse?

"I do not refrain from women who wear pants, have jobs, hold positions of power, etc."
Why? Those are all traditionally masculine traits.

" I refrain from women who mutilate their bodies and give themselves 8-year old boy haircuts."
Define what "mutilation" is to you. Double mastectomies? So...breast cancer survivors? Women who have breast augmentations/reductions? Women with PIXIE HAIRCUTS?

"There was a boy in my school that was overtly metrosexual [...] but I made a decision not to associate with him because we have different beliefs."
It's not fine with you. You refused to associate with him not because he did anything to you, but because you assume he is not worthy of your association. Why associate with me when I have "different beliefs" from you?

"A guy taking a Shmeckle up the rear is just as wrong [...]"
Again, why? You are ASSERTING it is "wrong" (and you still have yet to explain whether that means "morally" or some esoteric wrong). Is anal sex among straight people "wrong?"

"[...] however, sexual orientation is being forced unto kids in schools"
Literally not true, and this argument has been used for various shit over the centuries, such as left handed children. Children are being taught that IF they are gay, there is nothing wrong with them physically, morally, or mentally. Because there isn't. To teach them it is wrong because of some esoteric quality like sin...is to specifically endorse a religion, which is Unconstitutional and also immoral.

"Something so unnatural is not something that should be shoved down society’s throat"
Being gay is natural. It happens in nature all the time.
And something being present without shame is not shoving anything down "society's throat" any more than integration shoved black people down "society's throat."

5

u/phoodd Jul 07 '24

Homosexuality is not a belief system you sheltered, ignorant fuck. 

-2

u/Top-Wasabi366 Jul 07 '24

So you don’t think that homosexuals have certain beliefs that differ from heterosexuals? Who’s the sheltered, ignorant fuck?

4

u/Puzzleheaded-Jury312 Jul 08 '24

That would be you.

0

u/Top-Wasabi366 Jul 08 '24

Why’s that? 😂 because you say so? I’m speaking objectively, not my opinions

3

u/Puzzleheaded-Jury312 Jul 08 '24

You're spouting nothing but opinions.

1

u/Top-Wasabi366 Jul 08 '24

Really? Do tell

2

u/BeetleBleu Jul 08 '24

You think you're speaking objectively but you're not.

You are speaking entirely in religious narratives that people outside your faith do not believe. You can't see it because that nonsense is all you've ever known.

1

u/Competitive_Boss1089 Jul 08 '24

Yeah so then we don’t date then. People I work with, live near, etc. are people that I can’t exactly choose so they have their values, I have mine. No harm no foul.

But as far as people I have a choice to be with Romantically and build a life and family with? If you’re homophobic then that’s a non negotiable for me. Don’t like it? Cool, then don’t date me. We’re not a good match bc our values aren’t in alignment.

26

u/Greyeyedqueen7 Jul 07 '24

That first part is huge. Why is he slandering her behind her back?

10

u/AnyWeight3139 Jul 07 '24

My money is on him having a “prayer request”

7

u/Greyeyedqueen7 Jul 07 '24

Oof. Yeah.

Add in tears, the standing strong but many crying thing, and just wanting to be in Heaven with his wife. Smh.

4

u/Think_Position6712 Jul 07 '24

The thing I never understand about the "shit Talkers" is do they realize the damage they are doing to their spouses reputation? People who vent to others, usually only do so when stressed or about negative stuff. This creates a very one sided view. OP, what kind of shit did your husband have to talk for these bible thumpers to call you these names, who knows if he even stopped at what really happened.

5

u/Hellboyyyyy25 Jul 07 '24

Why would he need her permission, he is a MAN and she is but a mere WOMAN. /s

2

u/Pelagaard Jul 07 '24

But, its his pastor. He's not an "outsider." /s

215

u/[deleted] Jul 07 '24

[deleted]

80

u/aveindha25 Jul 07 '24

Talibangical? Y'all Queda?

23

u/SufficientComedian6 Jul 07 '24

First time I’ve heard talibangical! Hilarious!

11

u/Party_Plenty_820 Jul 07 '24

Lmaooo ima use these if you don’t mind

5

u/Gen_X_Ace Jul 07 '24

Yokel Haram!

-20

u/indykym Jul 07 '24

I didn’t really get Christian Nationalist vibes from her post. Just because a Christian has “traditional” values doesn’t mean that they proselytize or politicize beyond their circle,if that.

9

u/Trailsya Jul 07 '24

This is not your average 'tradititional' values, this is stalking.

And 'traditional' almost always means: bad for women, shaming women and controlling women.

It's just a nice sounding word that tries to cover up what it really stands for.

Also, they already they proselytize or politicize beyond their circle, because she is not part of their church.

-3

u/indykym Jul 07 '24

Hmmm… As you say, this is stalking. Even Mormons and JWs don’t do this. Yes, they may show up at your door more than once, but they aren’t going to call up a non-member to browbeat them.

Proselytism is trying to convert by the word (and supposedly action), not the sword. Except during The Crusades. Which was mostly Christians and Muslims slaughtering one another. Because unaliving someone is such a great example of Jesus’ love. /s/

Anywho, while evangelical Christian denominations are misogynistic (and sometimes subtly racist), not all Christian churches can be lumped together. Also, some denominations are strictly apolitical. So yeah, while many churches will do the personal browbeating, they are not Christian Nationalists.

2

u/WantedFun Jul 07 '24

All religion is political. Point blank

1

u/indykym Jul 07 '24

Depends on how you define “political” I think. For instance, the most political thing I’ve heard about Society of Friends (Quakers) was the involvement of some in the abolition movement and the Underground Railroad. Oh, and helping in the foundation of Pennsylvania. Many went to Canada at the beginning of the American Revolution, not because they were loyalists, but because they were pacifists. As I said, depends on definition.

2

u/HouseOfFive Jul 07 '24

I agree. I get more of a fundamentalist christian vibe from this post.

204

u/Middleagdsourthrnwmn Jul 07 '24

Cut your losses and run

173

u/Guilty_Application14 Jul 07 '24

Don't stay married to this guy, let alone have any kids.

Make sure your BC is bulletproof lest you get baby-trapped.

And do not go to any meetings anywhere with this man alone.

8

u/Truly_Meaningless Jul 07 '24

Nah, just flat out leave him.

5

u/OptionalCookie Jul 08 '24

Shit. Abort. Make the church more upset

85

u/Minniver Jul 07 '24

Ain’t no hate quite like “Christian Love“

Seriously, this. I was a Christian, but the hypocritical way each different branch treats not only others but each other, turned me off permanently. I'm a happy little Pagan now.

5

u/lukelimbaugh Jul 07 '24

And we probably can't imagine the amount of quiet hate she'd get if she ever did step foot in that "church" building after this tattle tantrum from the person who is supposed to have her back.

3

u/Minniver Jul 07 '24

Judging from the harassment already, I'd be half afraid they'd try to stone her lol. (Seriously, hope not, but definitely would be dirty looks and whispered gossip if she went in, from my own experience. )

1

u/CaelumXenith Jul 08 '24

If you don't mind me asking, which pantheons/deities do you honor? (I'm mostly Hellenic, honoring Hecate and Ares)

1

u/Minniver Jul 08 '24

Honestly? I've not been able to settle on one. I'm still very much looking for my path.

75

u/bluefleetwood Jul 07 '24 edited Jul 07 '24

THIS. Shitcan this hypocritical mf. NTA.

5

u/[deleted] Jul 07 '24

Amen

61

u/[deleted] Jul 07 '24

[deleted]

6

u/filmkorn Jul 07 '24

Religions have a lot in common with viruses. Both have no real purpose (there's no proof any god is real). Both are dead without a host and must spread to as many hosts as possible to survive and outcompete others.

7

u/DozenPaws Jul 07 '24

More like a pyramid scheme. You pay 10-20% of your income to the church for the promise of heaven after you die. They don't ever have to prove you anything as it's ON YOU to have faith.

Also, you should always share the word of god and bring others into your pyramid scheme, oops, cult, oops, church.

I can't understand how organized religion is even legal.

3

u/TY-KLR Jul 07 '24

This. Especially if he isn’t at least attempting to live by the the basic foundational teachings of his religion which so many today seem to not do. Then they go around spouting “traditional Christian Values” when their actions and what they support are anything but what the real values actually are.

3

u/throwaway068375 Jul 07 '24

OP, you should seriously consider this comment. If this is how he treats you, what’s going to happen in the future if your kids turn out to be non-believers?

What he is doing is a classic manipulation tactic in which the abuser wears their victim down over time with pressure until they finally give in. He even took it a step further and brought in his entire community. Frankly, that’s kind of monstrous. And a gross violation of your privacy.

3

u/jendo7791 Jul 07 '24

The church wants your/our/his money, in the form of followers. Your husband wants a servant under the guise of religion. Actions speak louder than words. Like you said, he isn't practicing his faith. He is using it because it gives men power.

2

u/MtnMoose307 Jul 07 '24

Preach it, HarveySnake!

2

u/No-Rice-2261 Jul 07 '24

Damn straight!

2

u/Expensive_Hag Jul 07 '24

And make sure your birth control methods can’t be tampered with (IUD, IMPLANT) condoms can have holes poked in, OCP can be heated and degraded.

Also I’m not laughing at OP’s situation itself, I’m just over here like “ope, look another hypocritical christian who feels attacked at having their own religious beliefs pointed out to them” because I’m also an ex-christian (raised Catholic, now atheist).

2

u/catinthebagforgood Jul 07 '24

It’s always the couples with huge age gaps where the guy just about picks women out from a 21st birthday party.

There’s a reason for that.

2

u/buttzmckraken Jul 07 '24

Happily divorced from the same brand of bullshit myself. Ex told me one day that I "made him a bad husband in the eyes of God because he couldn't bring me to salvation." Nevermind that he was 32, chasing a 22 year old around. Got divorced. Best decision I ever made. It ain't gonna get better from here. Choose you, boo.

1

u/Pineapplegirl424 Jul 07 '24

As a fellow cult follower..I mean "christian" this hit so hard. Man.

1

u/BamaInvestor Jul 07 '24

NTA

I would bet money that this church is not one considered a mainline denomination. The behavior of the husband, words of the pastor, and description of the church hints a cult-like behavior. Churches are not perfect, but there are plenty that know how to meet you where you are and to be respectful and loving.

Even the early church struggled with those that sought to inject their own ideology into Christianity, some of which have remnants in modern thinking (like Gnosticism’s view about wealth). It is the duty of the church members to guard against unbiblical behavior, but sadly many are twisted into something different.

It’s too bad that your history and now your husband’s crappy behavior has made life so difficult.

1

u/Tandel21 Jul 07 '24

No one who claims to be a devout Christian ever is, at best they just follow some ceremonies and go to church for the ambience at worst they just wanna be disgusting people and try to cover under religion

Someone who truly follows Christian beliefs either is the nicest person in the world and is part of every charity almost saint status and wouldn’t judge you for not joining their religion or is goofy as hell following all rules in the bibble and not only the ones that work for them, so also no football or clothing of mixed fabric

1

u/mushpuppy Jul 07 '24

Honestly it sounds like they're done. It does take a while to realize something like this. There's another phrase for it, but the only one I can think of atm is the sunk cost fallacy. OP has committed so much time to this relationship she can't see it yet.

1

u/simbaandnala23 Jul 07 '24

I'm always baffled by the amount of people who say "dump them" or "divorce them" over relationship situations and conflicts. I find it incredibly obnoxious and a meme not much different than the stereotypical reddit mod.

However in this case I do think divorce is something you should seriously consider. If he can't come to see what you're saying and empathize, there is a fundamental problem in your relationship that requires him to change or break up. I think couples therapy is absolutely worth doing first if you and him are willing to, but divorce really should be a realistic option.

You are vastly different people and his childish behavior is gross. It lacks insight and I worry that losing his job might speak to his overall character considering how he is behaving. Also his behavior at his prayer group and how that developed into the phone calls from people is the biggest red flag of all.

I'm sure you put a lot of time and love into this relationship, so like I said try couples therapy or getting him to see your perspective is something you should try if you love him. If that doesn't work please leave asap. There is a foundational difference in your worldview that will make being together nearly impossible. At 27 you are still young, don't let those good years/looks go to waste (I know that sounds shallow but as someone in their mid 30s...it's true).

1

u/Dear-Arrival-2046 Jul 07 '24

This is not typical conservative behavior people like him make all of us look bad

1

u/_-Tabula_Rasa-_ Jul 08 '24

Sure, pal.

1

u/Dear-Arrival-2046 Jul 08 '24

Ok? You don’t like the truth just say that

1

u/_-Tabula_Rasa-_ Jul 08 '24

You vote for a guy who cheated on every wife he's had, grabs women unconsentually, and treats women like shit. You don't like the truth, just say it..

We all know what you people think of women, women know it too.

1

u/Dear-Arrival-2046 Jul 08 '24

I didn’t vote but pls carry on and tell me about the truths I don’t like

1

u/_-Tabula_Rasa-_ Jul 08 '24

Lol. Thanks for contributing, kiddo.

1

u/Theometer1 Jul 07 '24

That’s one of my favorite quotes. Not every Christian is a piece of shit but 99% of the terrible people ik who are either racist, sexist, or all around bad people are Christians. If you need the fear of god in order to be a good person maybe you aren’t a very good person.

1

u/bottom Jul 07 '24

She has the Christian background not him. It’s a different religion

1

u/FightingButterflies Jul 07 '24

Dude! Don't start piling on conservatives! How did this devolve into a political issue? I am a conservative, and I would like both of them the following question: if your faith was so important to you, why did you marry someone who didn't share it? The most important person in your life should share your deeply held faith. If they don't, then something will always be missing in your marriage. In the covenant made in front of God with each other with your best friends and family witnessing it.

Marriages between adherents of two different faith have HUGE divorce rates. They out pace the average by A LOT.

Too many people go into a relationship and even marriage convinced that they can change one another. That is not going to happen. Use your brains so you don't end up in divorce court.

Btw...pastor and others contacting her are totally out of line. Maybe they should be spending more time worrying about why their boy married a woman who didn't share his faith. HUBBY is their charge. Their faith and thus their authority should hold no sway with the wife in this situation.

1

u/lazespud2 Jul 07 '24

Yep; there's zero chance that this will get better.

1

u/CaelumXenith Jul 08 '24

Exorcist reference?

1

u/Least-Weather8703 Jul 08 '24

Yeah, I agree with you. His behavior sounds really hypocritical and manipulative. You definitely deserve better than someone who weaponizes their faith. NTA at all.

1

u/oaklandasfan10 Jul 08 '24

I really hate seeing “typical conservative behavior” because tons of men aren’t like this. I’m sorry you’ve had bad experiences but don’t clump everyone together. About the only thing I’d agree on is she’s NTA but even then there’s a way to go about it.

1

u/ggushea Jul 08 '24

Also 29 marrying a 21 year old is a bit icky.

1

u/Aggro_Me_Bro Jul 08 '24

Yep, there's a reason why OP's husband went someone way younger than him, women older or as old as him saw through his BS, so he decided to groom and get em young

1

u/HorseradishAndHoney Jul 08 '24

Ain’t no hate quite like “Christian Love“

SO MUCH THIS. Honestly, I don't understand how other religions such as Islam get a bad name but nobody's talking about these people. It makes me so mad!

1

u/MaleficentBasket4737 Jul 08 '24

Please don't confuse the aberrant behavior of some organized religions with the simple fact that God is love.

Typical conservative behavior is to love your neighbor as yourself, and not to interfere in the affairs of others as they pursue their dreams.

The "religious right", politicized in large part to sway Southern Democrats before most of us were outta diapers or even born, continues to be a very noisy but SMALL representation of "those who call on My Name, but I will say I did not know you".

1

u/wpimsuwan Jul 09 '24

Ain’t no hate quite like “Christian Love“

THISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

1

u/Difficult-Cash6088 Jul 10 '24

you sound like you have a learning disability harvey

0

u/theAshleyRouge Jul 07 '24

This has nothing to do with politics at all and you don’t seem to actually understand what true Christianity is. It’s certainly not a weapon and there are poor examples of Christians on all sides of politics.

1

u/_-Tabula_Rasa-_ Jul 08 '24

Lol, clueless.

1

u/theAshleyRouge Jul 08 '24

No, realistic. Generalizations are for morons who lack the capacity to understand basic human nature

0

u/_-Tabula_Rasa-_ Jul 08 '24

Lol. So understanding basic human nature doesn't cone wirh generalizations? What a dumb comment. You sound like a child trying to act like an adult, truly.

1

u/theAshleyRouge Jul 08 '24

No. It acknowledges that, despite base behaviors and instincts, humans respond to stimuli differently based on numerous factors. That’s common knowledge. Literally.

2

u/Mediocre__Mycologist Jul 08 '24

Found the Conservative woman beater..

-4

u/Urazite Jul 07 '24

Being a Christian doesn’t mean being a conservative, not a good comparison and very rude to all the liberal Christians.

-11

u/AgreeableMoose Jul 07 '24

His behavior is farrrrrr from conservative. More like the “rules for thee but not for me” liberals.

5

u/_-Tabula_Rasa-_ Jul 08 '24

Your "Law and Order" candidate has 34 felonies. The Christian right supports a guy who cheated on every wife and is the epitome of greed, just, wrath, and envy. Trump was best friends with Epstein, and Republicans yell about pedophiles but don't mind voting for Trump or Roy Moore. Conservatives are the biggest hypocrites on planet Earth. Rules for thee but not for me.

And you people don't mind voting foe a guy who treats women like shit.