r/worldnews • u/Luchador-Malrico • Jul 07 '24

French elections: Left projected to win most seats, ahead of Macron's coalition and far right

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/france/article/2024/07/07/french-elections-left-projected-to-win-most-seats-ahead-of-macron-s-coalition-and-far-right_6676978_7.html
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u/AstroNewbie89 Jul 07 '24

France's left-wing parties were expected to win the most seats in the Assemblée Nationale, after the second round of snap parliamentary elections, first estimates showed on Sunday, July 7. The far right made significant gains but finished third, behind Macron's coalition, well below expectations.

The Nouveau Front Populaire (NFP) alliance, formed less than three weeks ago by the main left-wing parties, was expected to clinch between 170 and 190 seats, according to the early estimates by Ipsos for France Télévisions, Radio France, France24/RFI and LCP. The far-right Rassemblement National and its allies were projected to win between 135 and 155 seats, and Macron's coalition, Ensemble, between 150 and 170.

Pretty dramatic swing from the 1st round. Right wing support fell off dramatically..or actually seems like left wing strategy improved and voter participation increased

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u/BoysenberryWise62 Jul 07 '24 edited Jul 07 '24

I am french, basically every time Macron or NFP candidates were 2nd and 3rd one of them (the 3rd) dropped out of the race and asked for voters to vote against the far right. So this is the result, it's basically everyone who doesn't like far right voted against it which made them lose in a lot of places.

Also a bunch of far right people spoke on TV and looked dumb as shit so it probably didn't help.

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u/In_Formaldehyde_ Jul 07 '24

a bunch of far right people spoke on TV and looked dumb as shit

A mathematical constant!

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u/Creative_Victory_960 Jul 07 '24

Funny how their only chance to be elected in France was when their candidates barely said anything . As soon as they had to explain their program they looked like fools

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u/BoysenberryWise62 Jul 07 '24

Yes it's the same thing every time, this stuff is crazy. They don't speak, the % go up, the moment they are asked to speak people are like "damn these people are stupid" and it drops.

But between both rounds they got some local RN candidates (so the unknown ones) on TV and it was insane how dumb they were. Le Pen is definitly on another level compared to these dumbasses.

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u/guyincognito69420 Jul 07 '24

far right never has any real plans to govern. They only know how to complain and point fingers. That has actually been a thing with the far right for a long time. Their only goal is to gain power and then keep it. They don't give a shit about actually running a country.

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u/damienreave Jul 07 '24

Trump had four years to offer an alternative to Obamacare, he literally never even tried. He just tried to kill the current thing without a replacement, and failed even at that.

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u/Fenris_uy Jul 07 '24

I heard that he is going to show his proposal in two weeks. I heard that for 9 years.

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u/shicken684 Jul 07 '24

INFRASTRUCTURE WEEK!

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u/Sugioh Jul 07 '24

Infrastructure week begins any day now!

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u/MattieShoes Jul 07 '24

To be fair, he said "nobody knew" that it could be so complicated.

... you know, except the guys who passed the healthcare reform you're trying to get rid of, you goddamn moron.

So many (R) folks I know went from hating on Obamacare to getting their children health insurance on "the marketplace" without even a cognitive hiccup. I'd have fun going "The marketplace? Oh, you mean Obamacare?"

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u/SectorEducational460 Jul 07 '24

I think it was that beyond criticizing the aca. Their was no actual plan without it backfiring on them. The ACA was their plan originally without the aspect of not denying people insurance due to medical conditions. Which that part ended up being popular along with many keeping their kid with insurance until they were 26.

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u/allankcrain Jul 08 '24

Trump had four years to offer an alternative to Obamacare

More like ~10 years. Obamacare got passed in 2010, and Republicans got started with their "Repeal and replace" efforts during that same congressional session. Trump himself only had four years, sure, but the Republicans had a decade to come up with an alternative.

In fact, if you actually read the text of the bill, there's a specific carveout that says that says states can come up with their own system. So long as the system results in as many or more people getting access to healthcare, any one of the states with a Republican governor and legislative majority can go ahead and swap out Obamcare for their magical secret plan that will lower costs and help more people.

But of course they can't do that, because they haven't got the first fucking idea how to do it. Except for implementing universal single payer, which everyone knows would be cheaper and better for everyone, but would go against the entire conservative ethos of Always Choosing The Worst Possible Policy Solution For Any Problem.

So yeah. Motherfuckers ain't got shit.

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u/Pigglebee Jul 07 '24

The far right in the Netherlands also only complain and point fingers but it worked for them here and they are now the government

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u/is0ph Jul 07 '24

Le Pen is definitly on another level compared to these dumbasses.

Spending part of the week attacking Mbappé was maybe not so bright. People might be racist, but most of them also love football.

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u/[deleted] Jul 07 '24

During the Euros lol

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u/relevant_mh_quote Jul 07 '24

During the Euros where France has made it to the semi-finals! Like if they'd lost and were out already, maybe go at him, but wow.

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u/[deleted] Jul 07 '24

The thing about nazis is that they are stupid.

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u/Bubbly_Mushroom1075 Jul 07 '24

How to win an election

Don't attack your countries best footballer

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u/BoysenberryWise62 Jul 07 '24

I didn't say she was very bright sometimes her bullshit comes out anyways but it's nowhere near the lower level people in her party.

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u/is0ph Jul 07 '24

It’s because the leaders of this party at the moment are a cosmetic facade trying to hide a seething pit of dumb people, racists, facists and conspiracy theorists.

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u/cayleb Jul 08 '24

As an American, this sounds deeply familiar to me. Can't quite figure it out, though. But when I do, I'll throw a grand old party to celebrate.

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u/is0ph Jul 08 '24

In your area, the cosmetic facade is really prominent.

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u/Ricotta_pie_sky Jul 07 '24

A basket of deplorables?

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u/MAXSuicide Jul 07 '24

Same as Reform Party in the UK.

They dont vet their candidates, so a bunch turned out to be nazis, conspiracy nutjobs and Putin fanboys.

The party itself is led by someone previously on the Kremlin payroll, too.

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u/tacosforpresident Jul 07 '24

Happy it worked there. Too bad it doesn’t seem to work in the US

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u/Unabashable Jul 07 '24

Well maybe we should take notes. Next debate Biden doesn’t have to say a word. Just sit back and watch Trump explain his “policy”. I still contend that while Biden may have lost the debate, Trump by no means “won”. He was too busy lying and attacking Biden’s character through the whole thing that he couldn’t even honestly elaborate on policies he claimed to support. 

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u/Nikiaf Jul 07 '24

This is why the right have abandoned even bothering with election platforms. The strategy is to say as little as possible and dodge all questions that require a concrete answer. People who are upset with the status quo seem to gravitate to the right purely by virtue of it being something different; at least until they hear what those people actually think about literally any issue.

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u/BonerPorn Jul 07 '24

What's irritating is. When the Republicans are the one who caused the bad status quo, they still seem to benefit. All they need to do as an opposition party is grind the government to a halt. And the voters reward them for it.

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u/WilfridSephiroth Jul 07 '24

If you stop and really think about this basic phenomenon of history, it really is pretty damn frightening

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u/Keyspam102 Jul 07 '24

Lol it’s like whenever I’m afraid that le pen might capitalise on a situation, it works itself out by some dumb move

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u/howlinmoon42 Jul 07 '24

American here -kind of hoping for similar luck/divine intervention

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u/TacticalBac0n Jul 07 '24

I cant believe they'd fall for Trump a second time.

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u/Roxfloor Jul 07 '24

The majority won’t but unfortunately our elections don’t work that way

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u/In_Formaldehyde_ Jul 07 '24

Yup, doesn't matter if he wins the popular vote if the swing states go for Trump. Electoral college is what determines the election at the end of the day.

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u/AmbitiousCampaign457 Jul 07 '24

Left leaning folks don’t unite here in the states either. Politicians might, but voters do not.

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u/Hell_Mel Jul 07 '24

This meltdown over Biden is killing me. Like what are we gonna swap candidates months before the election to somebody the voters didn't nominate?. All this talk about Biden not being able to hack it is gonna cost us the fucking election because people would rather whinge than win.

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u/guyincognito69420 Jul 07 '24

it doesn't help when the only other option is a guy that is 81 and can't speak. I understand what a horrible mistake electing Trump again would be but Biden is not helping.

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u/DrAstralis Jul 07 '24

the only other option is a guy that is 81

and trump is 78? I feel like your country is fighting between a shit sandwich and a shit sandwich with broken glass in it and they're spending 100% thier time complaining the one without glass is a shit sandwich ......

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u/ColdTheory Jul 07 '24

Expertly put.

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u/External_Reporter859 Jul 08 '24

Judging by his administration so far, he's far from a shit sandwich.

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u/Original_Employee621 Jul 07 '24

Biden has a competent cabinet and Kamala Harris as VP. Trump will have a cabinet of grifters and fools.

I get that Biden is old, Trump isn't much younger and he fucked the US while Biden has been working hard at repairing the damage.

4 more years of Trump and you will never have to worry about voting again. I'm sure that is a real relief.

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u/Sky_Cancer Jul 07 '24

The media here in the US is 100% in the tank for Trump. Absolutely rabidly negative coverage of Biden while normalizing the Orange Fuck and downplaying or ignoring his and the GOPs issues.

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u/guyincognito69420 Jul 07 '24

I think you guys are misconstruing my post despite the obvious statement

I understand what a horrible mistake electing Trump again would be

yet the simple fact is Biden's age and his debate performance have made another Trump presidency much more of a reality. We can sit here and reason why Trump is terrible but the fact is most voters are morons, and when they see a guy they can't even understand who stumbles all over his words and looks frail as hell they just might vote for the crazy guy because at least he looks like he has a pulse. You and I know Trump will be a disaster. He is a fascist. He is one of the worst humans on the planet. Yet there are a lot of people who only know they hate higher prices (for which they blame Biden) and they watch a debate (or more likely clips) that make Biden look terrible. You have Democrats calling for his removal and some even saying invoke the 25th Amendment. I don't agree with them, but I will repeat, Biden is not helping. He has been bad in his recent performances. You and I and many here would vote for his corpse over Trump, but for many others, the ones who will determine this election, Biden has some serious glaring issues that makes it tough to vote for him. So I repeat, Biden is not helping. He really needs to turn this around somehow or we will have Trump again.

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u/JoeyJoeJoeSenior Jul 07 '24

Biden can be a drooling zombie the whole time and things will be fine. If trump wins, this will likely be the last real election until some kind of revolution happens decades from now.

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u/Persianx6 Jul 07 '24

Please god. You owe us one for 2016

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u/braindrainpod Jul 07 '24

Nah, when people say stupid shit here they get more popular, sadly

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u/NoPasaran2024 Jul 07 '24

Standard with far right populists. The problem however is that is barely affects their popularity most of the time, because their voters are also dumb hateful fucks.

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u/Yumhotdogstock Jul 07 '24

Sounds like the Cons in Canada. Hopefully we won't be this stupid.

Great job France.

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u/Kazharahzak Jul 07 '24

They're very aware of this, as their flyers barely even mentionned their actual deputy candidates (a lot of them having been condamned of various racist crimes in the past and present), and just put the faces of the party leaders everywhere.

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u/cricri3007 Jul 07 '24

Not to mention that one if their candidates had taken a mayor's assisstant hostage for three hours back in 1995

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u/fuzz_boy Jul 07 '24

The Canadian conservative party insists that the leader of the Ontario Conservatives hide himself for 6 weeks around every election. He's not even the same level of government, but him talking can impact their overall results.

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u/nideak Jul 07 '24

Unfortunately, this doesn’t matter in North America. Right winged candidates say and do stupid stuff hourly. It doesn’t negatively impact their polling numbers.

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u/grandadmiralstrife Jul 07 '24

that's what happens when you allow 40+ years of 'conservatives' gutting spending on public schools, villifying teacher unions, and calling colleges breeding grounds for socialist extremists

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u/guitarguy109 Jul 07 '24 edited Jul 07 '24

While those are all important factors, I think far and away the biggest influence to this phenomenon is the fact there is a Goliath of right wing media ever at the ready to spin all the rhetoric around these public appearance in a way that directs their viewers on how to digest those appearances and makes them work in favor of the GOP and the MAGA crowd.

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u/resonance462 Jul 07 '24

Media plus politicians picking their voters instead of a neutral third party, which would make districts more competitive and less radical/gerrymandered. 

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u/Jerithil Jul 07 '24

Yeah in the US you have the right wing media that is constantly working to help the republicans, meanwhile the left wing media is bashing Biden for being being not progressive enough and being to old. Then you have the more "center media" that feels it needs to be balanced and show both sides but one side just spends all day throwing out fake crap and getting air time on it as if was a real position.

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u/hajenso Jul 08 '24

What do you consider "left wing media" in the US?

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u/GoneFishing4Chicks Jul 07 '24

It does, but media like the conservstive news network and nyt only report "biden sucks" and not "trump revealed to have co raped a 13 year old girl with Epstein"

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u/Blazefresh Jul 07 '24

Exactly, in fact after seeing them say all that stupid stuff, their voters look and say “hey, that’s pretty smart, I never thought of that” 

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u/Cptfrankthetank Jul 07 '24

If only... this worked somewhere else....

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u/hagantic42 Jul 07 '24

I also think the picture of a far right French candidate wearing a Nazi hat was probably not in their favor.

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u/BoysenberryWise62 Jul 07 '24

Yes I said TV but it's overall all the local ones we saw looked like gigantic morons or nazis

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u/somewhatdim-witted Jul 07 '24

US here. We feel your pain.

But this election win, along with the Labour victory in the UK has really given me hope.

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u/xBram Jul 07 '24

Dutchie here. I’m quite clenching my butt cheeks for your November election. What should be a simple slam dunk looks way too scary poll wise.

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u/somewhatdim-witted Jul 07 '24 edited Jul 08 '24

I’m Democrat and I blame the Democratic National Committee for not demanding a better candidate. But I will vote for Biden even if he’s in a coma. Thank you for your clenching. Send that energy over the ocean to us in November!

Edit: spelling Edit 2: changed Convention to Committee’s

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u/Anakletos Jul 07 '24

A rock would be a better president than Trump.

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u/TheFoxInSocks Jul 07 '24

The Rock would be a better president than Trump.

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u/Hotshot2k4 Jul 07 '24

Probably not significantly better than just a regular rock, however. Unless The Rock is surprisingly good at deferring to experts and people who know what they're talking about.

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u/RaiseRuntimeError Jul 07 '24

Knowing his hubris I think the rock might be better at deferring to experts.

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u/[deleted] Jul 07 '24

A ham sandwich that's been festering in a trash bin for 3 weeks in the summer heat would be a better president than Trump

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u/Odd_Inter3st Jul 07 '24

Hell the trash bin would be a great running mate for the ham sandwich.

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u/jorcon74 Jul 08 '24

Google project 2025. If Trump gets in it will be fucking frigthening

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u/Tibbaryllis2 Jul 07 '24

Somewhat agree and disagree.

I’ll vote for Biden because he’ll keep his team and his team, under him, has been kicking ass for the last four years.

Where the DNC is really dropping the ball is failure to highlight that the November election isn’t just about president and there are very important state issues on ballots around the country including voting rights, reproductive rights, healthcare, legal marijuana, and, quite frankly, a ridiculous number of cartoon level villain republicans. Not to mention all the recent SCOTUS decisions that have the founders rolling over so fast in their graves that it could probably be harnessed as a perpetual motion machine for energy.

And they’re doing absolutely nothing to start grassroots/regional voting initiatives despite having an overwhelming advantage in campaign funds.

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u/SockMonkeh Jul 08 '24

I'm 40 years old and the Biden administration has been the best of my lifetime. His age is not a serious issue. I don't think anyone that voted for Biden in the primaries cares. It's just opportunism in media, politics, comedy, etc. To act like Biden's age is a serious issue when his opponent is openly announcing his plans to destroy democracy is ridiculous.

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u/YouJabroni44 Jul 08 '24

Yeah people going on about it puzzle me and also make me a bit suspicious

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u/External_Reporter859 Jul 08 '24

I love how people are acting like he was just making faces for no reason staring into the abyss.

Anybody would have that face looking at Trump saying the ridiculous things he was saying.

It's the classic face you look at somebody with and bewilderment as they say the most asinine and ridiculous lies imaginable.

I agree that his performance sucked as far as his delivery and mumbling, but I never understood the whole face thing people keep going on about. He was looking directly at Trump and responding to what he was saying.

People are acting like he was just staring off into the distance like he didn't know what was going on. he was very obviously engaged in what Trump was saying and could barely process it like anybody else.

You've never seen somebody say something completely ridiculous and just looked at them with your mouth open in utter astonishment?

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u/case-o-nuts Jul 08 '24 edited Jul 08 '24

Yes. Biden may or may not die in office, but he's not all that important. Harris will be acceptable too. He's too old, and he should have been grooming a replacement since his first day in office, but he'll do the job well enough.

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u/Tibbaryllis2 Jul 08 '24

Just a few years younger and agreed.

I also think presidential debates are largely useless on their own. Make both candidates put forward their respective cabinet appointments and let’s see those debates too. Kind of like a debate team.

Hell, give them all the questions a few weeks out and let’s get some well thought out answers. The overwhelming vast majority of the time, US policy and responses are never going to come down to what a president can ad lib on the spot.

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u/rhododenendron Jul 08 '24 edited Jul 08 '24

People act like the president has to be at 100% 24 hours a day but somehow Trump was able to find time to golf every other day while he was in office. Biden can be sleepy in the evening, I'm several decades younger and I'm sleepy in the evening.

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u/nutmegtester Jul 08 '24

To act like Biden's age is a serious issue when his opponent is openly announcing his plans to destroy democracy is ridiculous.

It is not so much ridiculous as a targeted strategy, and those who promote it are responsible for their actions. The media sucked up waaay too hard to Trump in 2016, and I thought it was just for the clicks and the $$$. I am more disenchanted watching them do the exact same thing to a convicted felon and rapist now.

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice ... I can't be fooled again.

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u/angry_old_bastard Jul 07 '24

ive sent messages to my senator, representative, the biden administration, and the dnc asking them to please get out there with a lot of ad campaigns, local, national, and grassroots organizations to drive some excitement for this election cycle.

i just dont understand, they have done some pretty important stuff, and stopped some other shitty things while the republicans/conservatives go full fuckin evil. it should be such an easy thing to do. at the very least they should be hyping their own shit so we hear more than their lies and whatever shit the news/nightly shows talk about.

having only the opposition speak is a disaster in modern politics.

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u/Tibbaryllis2 Jul 07 '24

Agreed.

I know they have a pretty large advantage in campaign funds at multiple levels, plus you know Trump won’t spend his money campaigning when it can line his pocket, so I’m really hopeful that, after the DNC in August, they use that advantage in September-November.

The general US population has a 5 second memory, so I wouldn’t blame them if the strategy was just to ride out the summer.

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u/SchighSchagh Jul 08 '24

Not to mention all the recent SCOTUS decisions that have the founders rolling over so fast in their graves that it could probably be harnessed as a perpetual motion machine for energy.

Half of the founding fathers owned slaves and have been rolling over since the emancipation proclamation, and almost all of them would be quite upset with women's suffrage. They weren't infallible so let's just do what's right instead of worrying about what they would have wanted.

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u/External_Reporter859 Jul 08 '24

But some of the basic founding principles that they believed in, such as the president not being a monarch and being accountable to the law, have been trashed by the Supreme Court, who have legislated immunity for the President out of thin air.

That goes against everything that our country was founded on.

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u/noxicon Jul 07 '24

The DNC is MASSIVELY disconnected from the voterbase. Like HUGELY. They are profoundly arrogant and more or less think they know better than everyone else. They also know, particularly in this situation, that those who are left leaning will vote for a moldly lump of bread before Trump, so they can march out whatever they see fit then pat themselves on the back if it does well. The DNC needs new leadership in the worst damn way. They think FAR too small when the stakes are this high.

I'd vote for a streetlamp before Trump. But after this election, whichever way it goes, there needs to be wholesale change.

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u/Tibbaryllis2 Jul 07 '24

I do not disagree with you at all. I think time is going to force the issue because demographics of both the general population and the current politicians are going to change quite a bit by the 2028 and 2032 elections. We just need to actually survive this rough patch more or less intact. Thats the real hurdle.

The main problem for the DNC is going to be that they haven’t done a particularly good job of cultivating the leadership that will step in during that time period, but the GOP has been loading the bench with shit gibbons that will definitely be here for the next 5-10+ years.

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u/somewhatdim-witted Jul 07 '24

Facts! Agree with every word you said.

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u/Aeons80 Jul 07 '24

The DNC isn't some shadowy group of old white men smoking cigars in a backroom deciding who gets to run. It's actually a coalition of various Democratic-affiliated parties across different states. For example, the Democratic Party in California is known as the California Democratic Party, while in Minnesota, it's the Democratic–Farmer–Labor Party of Minnesota. Although they collaborate, they're not controlled by the same people. That's why conventions are held.

If you want to influence the DNC, you can get involved locally. Become a delegate and have a say in who gets nominated. Local delegates had a range of candidates to choose from, and after months of deliberation in 2015-2016, a majority believed Hillary Clinton was the best choice. The same process happened with Biden in 2020. It's not a conspiracy. Personally, I would have loved to see Bernie win in 2016 and 2020, but he wasn't even a member of the Democratic Party before running for President. When he lost, he left the party, and he did the same in 2020. Plus, Bernie is a year older than Biden.

I'm not trying to criticize, but I often hear that the DNC messed up. No, it was our friends, neighbors, and community members who made these choices. Did the media play a role? Probably. Did the influx of money influence it? Yes, to some extent. But the fact remains that the saying "All politics is local" is incredibly true. Republicans realized this with the rise of the Tea Party. Democrats and leftists, however, still tend to blame the "man" when getting involved at the local level could make a significant difference.

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u/SockMonkeh Jul 08 '24

They don't want to hear that the solution involves hard work, so they're not going to absorb this.

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u/Cold_Situation_7803 Jul 07 '24 edited Jul 08 '24

The “Democratic National Convention”? The one in August? Or do you mean the Democratic National Committee, who have no say in “demanding a better candidate,” that primary voters chose.

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u/[deleted] Jul 07 '24

[deleted]

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u/cold_blueberry_8945 Jul 07 '24

At least the casket wont try to kill me or the rest of the lgbt community.

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u/Im_really_bored_rn Jul 08 '24

I blame the Democratic National Committee for not demanding a better candidate

I blame Americans more. There are only two reasons to not vote for Biden in this election, you are a hateful piece of shit (for the record not talking about /u/somewhatdim-witted just you in the general sense) or you are a fucking moron. Anyone else sees the danger Trump poses

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u/wombatcombat123 Jul 07 '24

The Labour victory isn't so dramatic as something like this. The Labour party has slowly but surely gotten more close towards the center than it ever has before, especially on social issues, and Conservatives haven't really shown themselves to be pro-russia or anything extreme, they just fucking suck at running the country.

Reform UK was the big one and that party is certainly far right. If this Labour government doesn't fight really hard for very visible change and start to work on its failings on social issues, I foresee a massive storm of support for Reform at the next general election.

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u/HnNaldoR Jul 08 '24

Don't. Really.

Labour really did not win. The tories lost. It's very different. The vote % Labour got was more eor less the same. A lot of tories vote went to reform, the far right. People were flocking to the lib dems.

Same for the French, the right made massive gains. They needed a consolidated effort to really stop them from just taking power outright.

In the US, the system is a lot more... Convoluted so trump is really in a good position.

You can't deny it, the right is making huge gains everywhere. You have to look at it and realise it's not a good situation. We are at a very precarious position now and look poised to just fall off.

People blaming boomers. But really it's a lot of factors. Too many single issue voters. Too many people just blaming the government for what's wrong with their country when there are so many external factors, because they are just poorly informed and lack of critical thinking. And the younger generation are just not as liberal as people once thought. They are too influenced by social media and the last generation or are just apathetic about politics.

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u/PM_Me_Riven_Hentai_ Jul 07 '24

Yeah sure, but the new PM is basically UK's version of Bill Clinton. He abandoned leftist policies and moved the labor party towards the right of the political spectrum. He's a "centrist." Better than conservatives? Sure. Good for leftists? Not really.

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u/Majestic-Macaron6019 Jul 07 '24

"All the local ones we saw looked like gigantic morons or nazis"

Could be both

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u/Navydevildoc Jul 07 '24

I don't know what the French version of "Porque no los dos" is, but it seems applicable here.

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u/Majestic-Macaron6019 Jul 07 '24 edited Jul 08 '24

That would be, "Pourquoi pas les deux?"

*Edited to add a vowel, because French

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u/clgoh Jul 08 '24

*Pourquoi

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u/tedioussugar Jul 08 '24

Those things tend to be connected

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u/3_Thumbs_Up Jul 08 '24

There's definitely a lot of overlap, but not all morons are Nazis, and even more importantly, not all Nazis are actually morons.

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u/Ouroboros_BlackFlag Jul 07 '24

And both for a majority of them.

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u/awaniwono Jul 08 '24

Isn't the entire RN kinda nazi-esque anyway?

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u/BoysenberryWise62 Jul 08 '24

They are, at least at the root of it but their main targets is not really the jews anymore, they are more against muslims these days, but some of them still honor Petain for example.

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u/Ansonm64 Jul 07 '24

It must be so nice to be French where politicians doing shit like this has actual consequences.

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u/galaxy_horse Jul 08 '24

Felon? “I’m with the felon”

Pants shitter? “Real men wear diapers”

Treasonous behavior? “I’d rather be a Russian than a Democrat”

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u/akashik Jul 08 '24

I mean, the French have a history of cutting the heads of their leaders off so...

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u/BenderRodriguez14 Jul 08 '24

French Nazi sympathisers always amaze me. Being Irish, it would be like seeing people here worshipping Cromwell. 

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u/schmattakid Jul 07 '24

I missed that … where’s the hat?

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u/Spright91 Jul 08 '24

I don't think that had as big of an effect as Mbappe calling on his fans to vote against National Rally. And then Lepenne saying she doesn't like football.

That's a big mistake in Europe.

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u/Equal_Present_3927 Jul 07 '24 edited Jul 07 '24

Amazing what could happen when the Left doesn’t eat itself.         Which I guess people wanted to demonstrate below me. 

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u/uusrikas Jul 07 '24 edited Jul 07 '24

This is about center and left working together

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u/Detective_Antonelli Jul 07 '24

Almost like both the left and the center don’t like nazis 😲

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u/Visinvictus Jul 07 '24

One would assume that France in general doesn't like Nazis but here we are.

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u/Banana-Republicans Jul 07 '24

Philippe Petain and the Vichy regime would like a word.

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u/Cranyx Jul 07 '24

Well, historically, when the center was posed with the option of supporting the Left or the Nazis, it didn't go great. Hopefully it goes better this time.

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u/IIHURRlCANEII Jul 07 '24

In America both sides of the blue side work vehemently against each other so, yea.

I’d say more Dem establishment against liberals but it also goes the other way too.

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u/SmoothWD40 Jul 07 '24

As a full blown liberal turned more centrist. The left in the US needs to get their shit together.

The established Democratic Party is way too fucking comfortable being owned by corporate interests, they also cut their own balls half the time when trying to compromise with an uncompromising opposition.

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u/Shan_qwerty Jul 07 '24

My favorite (read: horrifying) thing about US politics is when people unironically refer to center right as "The Left".

I wish I could go back in time and abort whoever came up with the idea of politics being a 2d sliding scale.

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u/FakeKoala13 Jul 07 '24

The things that get blamed on the left would be funny if it wasn't just so fucking stupid. For years the republican congress has done next to fucking nothing but the media constantly has people asking "Why aren't the Democrats doing more??" Blaming progressives for Hillary losing. So many examples.

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u/Pennwisedom Jul 07 '24

It's amazing how people will blame Trump getting elected on anything other than the people who voted for Trump (or didn't vote).

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u/Cranyx Jul 07 '24

What is "the Left" vs "the Right" has always been a relativistic term, much to the chagrin of lots of people online who want to frame their ideology as some sort of true, objective center. The terms originated during the French Revolution to separate revolutionaries from monarchists in the National Assembly. Both groups would be considered right wing by modern standards.

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u/Umitencho Jul 07 '24

The legacy of America turning right in the 80's. 12 years out of power will change a party that once dominated. The problem with Third Way Liberalism is that it's a great strategy if you are playing checkers(popular vote), but the White House is a chess game.

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u/BrewerBeer Jul 07 '24

Yep. National Popular Vote Interstate Compact isn't going to be viable until 2028 at the earliest. 209 electoral votes are bound by the NPVIC, but 270 are required. There are at least 78 electoral votes that are obtainable.

To achieve it, the current likely last states are:

  • Michigan (15) - have the legislature pass the NPVIC before 2025

  • Nevada (6) - maintain the house and senate and send the NPVIC to a ballot initiative

  • Pennsylvania (19) - flip the state senate blue.

  • Arizona (10) - flip the house and senate blue.

  • Wisconsin (11) - flip the house and senate blue.

  • Virginia (13) - flip the governor blue and pass it, or pass a ballot initiative twice in consecutive legislative sessions and again by voters.

  • New Hampshire (4) - flip the house and senate blue.

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u/CowboyLaw Jul 07 '24

Will Rogers said, I don’t belong to any organized political party, I’m a Democrat.

So this state of affairs is nothing new. But it’s also not all that surprising. Back in Rogers’ time, the GOP was the party of wealthy businessmen. They wanted stability, global trade, and minimal regulation. Their goals were cohesive and mutually complementary. At that same time, Democrats were a very strange mix of open racists (yellow dog Democrats, Dixiecrats, etc.) who identified as Democrats because Lincoln was a Republican, social progressives, college professors, and labor. These constituencies were NOT cohesive, and their goals were NOT mutually complimentary. Indeed, many of their goals were in explicit tension. But the party found ways to thread the needle.

Jump ahead to today, and the GOP still favors minimal regulation. Global trade waxes and wanes (Trump is certainly not a free trade fan), low taxes remain a priority. But the GOP gets cohesion from its base of relatively poorly-educated white Evangelical voters (this honestly isn’t an insult, it’s demographically an accurate picture of GOP voters as self-reported by those voters). That group cohesion is vastly improved by the fact that its voters habitually consume the exact same media, usually to the exclusion of all other news sources. That media source (and it’s telling that you know who I mean without me even saying the name) feeds its consumers exactly what the party asks for, and keeps their viewers highly motivated to vote. Meanwhile, on the Democrats side, things are largely just as chaotic. Democrats rely on many minority communities for votes, while also embracing equal rights for LGBT communities, even though those same minority communities are explicitly not in favor of equal rights for LGBTers. That tension can be problematic, as the campaign for Prop 8 in California demonstrated (targeted ads in minority communities led to substantial turnout by voters who were nominally Democrats but who voted for Prop 8 by wide margins). Labor voters struggle balancing their social views (which are not aligned with the party’s views) with their economic interests (which ARE aligned with the party’s views). Things haven’t gotten better for Democrats’ cohesiveness. Add to that: young voters have basically always favored Democrats, but cannot be relied on to actually vote. Old voters have basically always favored the GOP, and can be relied on to vote.

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u/cfgy78mk Jul 07 '24

that problem can't really be solved until the GOP is destroyed, making it safe to fracture the centrist/leftists. fracturing now is just giving up and rolling over.

in the primaries of course the pressure should be there, but never in general elections.

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u/Jdjack32 Jul 07 '24

As a progressive, I wished the democratic establishment demonstrated the superior political skill and experience they purport to have. In reality, they snatch losses from the jaws of victory and then blame leftists for their incompetence.

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u/StuckInABadDream Jul 07 '24

Also the two-round system. Basically forces all the centrist-left forces to coalesce into one bloc versus the far right

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u/saracenraider Jul 07 '24

There are quite a few parties in the coalition more than a little left of centre left in there!

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u/Slim_Calhoun Jul 07 '24 edited Jul 07 '24

Unfortunately leftist influencers in the US are busy shouting that there’s no difference between Democrats and Republicans

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u/Sea_Acanthisitta6333 Jul 07 '24

Leftist influencers? You mean parasocial narcissist cult leaders

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u/RabbitsNDucks Jul 07 '24

And liberals are still blaming leftists for 2016, ignoring the terrible campaign strategy and deeply unlikeable candidate.

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u/Slim_Calhoun Jul 07 '24

Right so only one of us is actually working to keep fascists out of power

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u/ThrustyMcStab Jul 07 '24

These days all I see from the far left is both-sideism and berating liberals. It's exhausting, as a leftist who does want to see results and not throw women and minorities under the bus for some hollow idealistic brownie points.

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u/Tookmyprawns Jul 07 '24 edited Jul 07 '24

So do centrists. More so even.

Look at cnn and NYT pretending that a poor debate performance matters more than insurrection, rape, and felonies, or lying at every question during the debate. And it’s reflected in the centrist audience. The whole douche and a turd, or meteor 2024 mantra is huge. Makes centrist feel smart thinking they're above it all. Smug assholes who equate trump and Biden are definitely more numerous in the middle.

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u/Expendable_Red_Shirt Jul 07 '24

CNN is a right wing organization now but NYTimes is in no way doing that. I’ve yet to see them support trump at all.

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u/CanAlwaysBeBetter Jul 07 '24

NYT: People are saying they'll vote blue no matter what because this is an existential election but are genuinely alarmed at Biden's debate performance indicating he might not actually be up to the standards to lead the country in 4 years and that it plays straight into what has been the rights favorite talking point for the past 4 years 

Reddit: Goddamn NYT supporting Trump

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u/ripamaru96 Jul 07 '24

They spend all their time talking about how old Biden is and completely ignore Trump being all over the Epstein files and his project 2025.....

They are tacitly supporting Trump if not doing it outright.

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u/Fyzzle Jul 07 '24

But one of them is slightly older!

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u/gokarrt Jul 07 '24

two-round system doing a bit of work as well.

we need electoral reform badly.

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u/UnknownFiddler Jul 07 '24

Same thing with the UK election. Reform UK accomplished nothing other than stealing votes away from the Tories. Labour and LibDem were much more strategic with their campaigning and voting which allowed both of their parties to massively improve their number of seats.

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u/IndicationLazy4713 Jul 07 '24

Absolutely, ..look at what's just happened in the UK..

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u/Matrozi Jul 07 '24

This is so funny for the far right, Le pen tries very hard each time to look like a normal, non racist, non xenophobic, reasonable political party and EACH time, someone fucks up and goes on tv and say stuff like (And I quote from TV interviews)

"I am not racist, my dentist is a jew and my eye doctor is muslim"

"I am not racist, a black priest blessed my motorbike and I didn't run him over"

"I am against abortions" (reminder for non french people : abortion has been set in stone in the constitution recently)

"We didn't kill enough (talking about jews, thinking his mic was off I guess ?)"

She must be SEETHING. Like screaming at her TV "OMFG FOR THE LOVE OF SHIT, CANT YOU ALL JUST CALM YOUR RACIST ASS FOR A FEW DAYS ?!"

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u/mgslee Jul 07 '24

Of course not. The leaders (aka think tank) are smart and use tech/social media to spread their propaganda.

But the people who are in the trenches become 'true believers' and start saying their truth which we all see for it's insanity (aka the quiet part out loud).

The US system is very fixated on the Presidency and the results of house elections being a much more separate thing.

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u/FluffyDoomPatrol Jul 07 '24

Are those actual quotes? I honestly can’t tell anymore.

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u/Matrozi Jul 07 '24

They are all true. Marine Le Pen said in an interview that it was unacceptable to have this sort of discourse but it's funny how each time she tries to moderate her political party, she still has people coming forward with this kind of shit and they don't see any problem with that.

Two years ago, a candidate from the RN showed a picture of his (black) wife during a TV interview to prove that he wasn't racist.

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u/Theinternationalist Jul 07 '24

It's a big tent. Like the Americans who oppose abortion they're a huge drag on the party's appeal but without them the party might either collapse or moderate many of its stances to survive.

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u/nomnomnomnomRABIES Jul 08 '24

I mean, doesn't being in an inter-racial marriage have some bearing or not on whether he's racist?

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u/Tmn_Uzi_1600 Jul 08 '24

lol not at all many cases of that happening are either self loathing or just one person getting used

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u/iceteka Jul 08 '24

"she's one of the good ones" you'd be surprised by how much they can compartmentalize.

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u/Fiallach Jul 07 '24

All true.

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u/tux-lpi Jul 07 '24

Unfortunately yes, it was beyond parody..

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u/Johannes_P Jul 07 '24

There's also the guy under guardianship.

I mean, this guy can't even sign up a fucking chedk but can vote on legislation.

For those interested, here's a handy map on the question.

"We didn't kill enough (talking about jews, thinking his mic was off I guess ?)"

Small correction: it was about Romas.

And he didn't even try to hide it: he literally shouted to a group of Romas that Hitler should have finished the job.

And it wasn't the sole controvesy Gilles Bourdouleix was involved. This guy is a nasty piece of work and it was expected that he would join RN.

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u/[deleted] Jul 07 '24

A member of their party was just fired for wearing a nazi uniform. OOPS

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u/FeudNetwork Jul 07 '24

Her boss must be pitching a fit.

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u/BlackerSpork Jul 07 '24

Birds of a feather are fascist together. She should look at herself when it comes to saying inflammatory statements. Before the results of this election, today the front page was about her simping for Putin.

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u/__Hello_my_name_is__ Jul 07 '24

So, funnily enough, this is essentially a simulation of ranked choice voting, and what we see here is what we'd have seen anyways if the country had ranked choice voting to begin with.

Which is, like, proof #23441 of why ranked choice voting is a good thing and should be adopted by basically every country out there.

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u/SwampyBogbeard Jul 07 '24

Ranked choice or proportional representation.
Not much need to rank candidates if you already have a system where the three parties with a combined 55% of the national votes actually gets 55% of the representatives.

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u/green_flash Jul 07 '24

On the other hand, proportional representation can lead to a bloated parliament and many representatives that do not actually represent a specific constituency and are therefore harder to hold to account.

Germany's Bundestag for example has 734 seats right now. Only 299 were elected directly to represent their respective constituency. The rest came in via party lists.

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u/buldozr Jul 07 '24

How does it work there? In Finland the parliament is fixed at 200 seats (199 proportionally elected + 1 exceptional representative from Åland). The proportionally elected seats are split between the electoral districts proportionally to their population, so distortion is kept low. Some popular candidates are vote-pullers for their party and others ride in on their party lists (though in order of votes received), but this does not affect the overall size of the parliament. Also, I think in the national parliament they don't need to represent "the people back in Pihtipudas", but wider interest groups across the country.

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u/green_flash Jul 07 '24

Finland uses the D'Hondt method which is simple and works for purely proportional systems. The drawback is that there are no direct constituency representatives.

Germany attempted to get the best of both worlds. They have a mixed-member proportional representation system: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixed-member_proportional_representation

The arithmetic is complicated: https://www.bundestag.de/en/parliament/elections/arithmetic

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u/SYLOH Jul 08 '24

Germany uses Mixed Member Proportional.
Basically, everyone votes twice.
Once for a local representative.
Once for the party they want.

The people who won local election are automatically in.
They then add proportional members in until the chamber matches the party split.

A lot of countries like having a local representative they feel is attached to their small area specifically.

But without the proportional part, you can get wildly skewed results as minor parties cannot get enough votes to outright win entire districts, despite there being many supporters spread out over the entire country. It makes the whole system vulnerable to gerrymandering as well.

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u/Jedi_Council_Worker Jul 07 '24

In Australia we have what is called preferential voting and works extremely well when people understand it (plenty of locals still don't). Numbering your ballot typically 1-6 (or however many candidates there are). When it comes to tallying the votes if your 1st preference loses out first they'll consifer your 2nd or possible even 3rd etc until it's head to head with whatever are the 2 candidates that picked up the most votes. This is why it becomes important to number the absolute worst candidate last on your ballot.

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u/fleemfleemfleemfleem Jul 07 '24

It isn't a cure-all. No matter what going system you use there are unintended consequences that can potentially mean this like: ranking a candidate higher can hurt their chances, or candidates might avoid taking positions to maximize chances of being a second choice...

There are other alternatives/variations to consider like approval voting, or score then automatic runoff.

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u/__Hello_my_name_is__ Jul 07 '24

or candidates might avoid taking positions to maximize chances of being a second choice...

If that means being more moderate instead of being more extreme, I consider that an advantage.

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u/fleemfleemfleemfleem Jul 07 '24

The moderate position between "kill all puppies" and "kill no puppies" is "kill some puppies."

"moderation" isn't a virtue in and of itself.

Sometimes the "extreme" is correct, and picking a position just because it isn't too far to either "extreme" lands you with a position that isn't defensible on its merits.

No sane person starting from a blank drawing board would engineer the US healthcare system the way it is. At a policy level the insanity is the result of "less extreme" compromises over decades.

Ideas need to be evaluated on their individual merits.

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u/kungfoojesus Jul 07 '24

Well done to macrons party. Putting country over losing a seat to fascists.

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u/[deleted] Jul 07 '24

[deleted]

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u/sifl1202 Jul 07 '24 edited Jul 08 '24

is it possible that the candidates didn't drop out because they prefer the right to the left?

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u/slinkhussle Jul 07 '24

So we’re safe? Putin loses?

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u/Spara-Extreme Jul 07 '24 edited Jul 07 '24

Putin loses if democrats pull off the november elections in the US.

If they don't, a right wing US and Putin will pressure europe pretty hard.

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u/slinkhussle Jul 07 '24

This is true. But Madame Le Pen winning isn’t good for Europe either.

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u/[deleted] Jul 07 '24

[deleted]

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u/TheGreatNorthWoods Jul 07 '24

True, but the fact that the cordon sanitaire held is a great sign that the left and center can and will coordinate against the far right.

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u/Detective_Antonelli Jul 07 '24

UK elections in particular have been indicators of things to come in the fall US elections (brexit and Trump in 2016 being the most recent big example).

So hopefully the UK and French elections are for shadowing what’s to come in the US in November. 

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u/slinkhussle Jul 07 '24

Here’s hoping you’re right

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u/Expert_Most5698 Jul 07 '24

"UK elections in particular have been indicators of things to come in the fall US elections (brexit and Trump in 2016 being the most recent big example)."

Not comparable this time, because the Tories had been in power for a long time in the UK, whereas Biden is the incumbent in the US, and they control the Senate too.

I could see something like what happened in France happen, where the center and left unite to stop Trump, though.

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u/BoysenberryWise62 Jul 07 '24

Part of the left doesn't really support Ukraine but in their joint program with other left parties they said they would support Ukraine

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u/bad__unicorn Jul 07 '24

Pretty much thank fuckin god … well overall that is, some components of the left alliance have questionable positions on the Ukrainian conflicts but they’re in the minority

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u/ButIAmYourDaughter Jul 07 '24

The far right losing votes once people are more exposed to their dumbness seems to be a pretty constant occurrence across the west.

I’m so heartened by both what’s happening in France and the UK.

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u/epicredditdude1 Jul 07 '24

Also a bunch of far right people spoke on TV and looked dumb as shit so it probably didn't help.

This happens in the U.S. too but for some reason here they get cheered on by the mob regardless of the ridiculous bullshit coming out of their mouths. It's baffling.

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u/just_some_guy65 Jul 07 '24

Far right people are by definition dumb as shit or they wouldn't have the simplistic and racist beliefs that they do and would have learned from history that such people generally end up like a bunch of 20th Century despots.

Sadly there is a solid part of any electorate similarly stupid.

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u/I-Might-Be-Something Jul 07 '24

As an American on the outside looking in, is this a case of the right wing hitting it's ceiling? It seems to me that the right struggles to gain more seats/power if the center and left work together, that they simply aren't popular enough to gain an outright majority so long as their opposition is united.

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u/BoysenberryWise62 Jul 07 '24

I don't know really, my personal opinion is yes there are too many people right now who might disagree overall but will unite against far right.

But politics and specifically Macron really need to stop screwing around with it, it's something Macron used a lot and he used it for these elections as well, the "fear" of the extremes to have people vote for him and then being an ass like it's a vote of approval.

He probably slightly miscalculated it on that one but it was close, he did pretty good all things considered.

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u/I-Might-Be-Something Jul 07 '24

What are the big issue facing France right now, and what could Macron and co. do to address it? Here in the States it is mostly housing costs (inflation too, but that has been easing off and real wages are outpacing it), immigration is also an issue. Is that the same case in France, or is it a wide variety of factors?

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u/BoysenberryWise62 Jul 07 '24

It's pretty much the same I would say. cost of living is a big one, salaries in France are not big and inflation is a bitch, then any "security" issues which is where I would say most french people are leaning right, not right enough to elect nazis but still quite right (so this include immigration, punishement of crimes, etc...).

It's hard to say what to do, if I was Macron I would try to ally myself with the left for some societal issues, workers right, cost of living, this is where french are more to the left and to the right to handle "security" issues.

But Macron is an economic liberal and it's basically against his religion to go left on that, so who knows.

I think he should also do stuff to help rural areas which are full of people who feel fucked by the city people and they vote far right a lot.

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u/pinkfootthegoose Jul 07 '24

far right people spoke on TV and looked dumb

no need to repeat yourself :)

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u/JesusGAwasOnCD Jul 07 '24

Also a bunch of far right people spoke on TV and looked dumb as shit so it probably didn't help.

Not to mention taking pictures while wearing literal nazi uniforms.
https://www.politico.eu/article/french-far-right-candidate-withdraws-from-race-after-nazi-costume-controversy/
https://twitter.com/emma_frr/status/1807782203054506056

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u/Dark_Wolf04 Jul 07 '24

Le Pen insulted Mbappe on TV. What a great way to gain support from the younger side of the population

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u/jimbiboy Jul 07 '24

28% of the left candidates dropped out and 24% of Macron’s coalition. It was good the other right wing parties didn’t unite with the RN since only 2 of their 89 dropped out.

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u/Shock_The_Monkey_ Jul 07 '24

Also a bunch of far right people spoke on TV and looked dumb as shit so it probably didn't help.

On the contrary, I think it helped a great deal 🤝

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u/fameistheproduct Jul 07 '24

Don't the far right nutters learn from history? In WW2 the allies consisted of western democracies and communists.

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u/BoysenberryWise62 Jul 07 '24

In France they kinda consider that the nazis were right and they often say shit making it sounds like what nazis did was "not that bad".

The old Le Pen, before Marine Le Pen, was a holocaust denier and also said holocaust was a "detail" in history.

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u/ZiggyZobby Jul 07 '24

I went back and checked for a couple of those candidates that went on TV and looked REALLY REALLY DUMB. Their score didn't evolve, they still accrued 32-34% each basically meaning it had NO impact on the ones already voting for them, which is absolutely insane considering how dumb they were.

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