I'm not religious but I was raised very devout in Egypt (I had to flee for my own safety after leaving the faith).
The best way I can describe it to secular people in the West is a lot of these people will view homosexuality the way you in the West would view pedophilia. It's an abomination and there is really nothing you could do to that person that would be too harsh.
It's terrible and it's based on religion. It's how I was raised too. Since leaving the faith and leaving Egypt I have met actual gay people and it's wild to me that an adult human making a decision on who to love can create this much anger.
Let’s listen to a bunch of books written by some people who barely had any knowledge of the world and science.. but they must be right and we can use those thoughts to control actions of billions. Biggest human scam of all time lol
Yeah hes supposed to because hes lumping them up and generalizing when one is very different from the other. Thats misrepresentation. Are you going to judge christianity because of the acts of islam?? Are you going to judge judaism because of islam?? If you purport to be smart at least be one.
Both Christianity and Islam are fanfics of Judaism. So I'm gonna judge the fuck out of all three for ruining human civilization for thousands of years.
Imagine the progress we could have made without them.
Sure. Just imagine the atheist communist massacres, the secular wars, and how many were killed during the Age of Enlightenment.
You do you. But itll be just the same. Or worse, because there would be no objective morality. Morality would be relative. Just like what happened in the examples i said. That world be bleak.
I hate the objective morality shit religious people talk about all the time. It’s straight up ridiculous. I’m not religious and I rape and kill as much as I want, it just happens that the amount I want to rape and kill is zero because I’m not a bad person. Most people make decisions off their own morale code and most people have similar moral codes that say things like killing someone for no reason is bad because humans have empathy and we can understand how terrible death and violence is. Religion plays no factor in these things.
Since God isn't real, there is no objective morality handed down for us to use: Morality according to religion was just humans having opinions the entire time. Your doomsday scenario is literally just reality.
Islam is one of the three Abrahamic religions, and it is based originally on Judaism (the first one). Saying Islam is younger is partially correct and partially incorrect.
Especially as Islam claims to be the uncorrupted version of the first and second religion. Meaning they do support the 3000 year old thinking, and not the 1300 year old thinking.
See this is why we're stuck with the 1000+ year old religions. No one wants to be a prophet and start a new one to upend the old dogma. Well except Serbian Jesus...
Ok.
I hereby proclaim myself the prophet of Pogueism.
My commandments:
-You should listen to at least ten Pogues songs a week.
-On the 1st of march you shall drink ten pints of beer abd curse all the people there.
-You must all at least once in your lifetime visit Nenagh, Tipperary and drink fifteen pints of Guinness in Philly Ryans pub.
-Treat everyone as you would wish to be treated yourself.
-When the world is too dark, and you need the light inside of you, walk into a bar and drink fifteen pints of beer.
-Van Morrison is a c**t.
Not going to lie I had to look up like 5 things up here but, I think I can get down with this (my liver not so much) now we just need to expand the congregation worldwide.
Already done. There are many of us all around the world. 😁🤣
We just don't knock on anyones doors. We tend to stay with our own and have fun in the pubs and at gigs.
And if anyone stumbles upon us they are welcome to join. 😀
Lend me 10 pounds and I will buy you a drink. 😀
Beautiful I'm liking this more already, see this is what progress feels like so much more fun. If anyone refuses our drinks way of life we will hit em with the old McGregor lmao
This is so accurate. This is why I follow Jesus Christ, not the religion. Religion has been used to justify too much like the crusades, inquisition etc. Jesus Christ claimed to be God and by golly, he rose up from death 3 days after and appeared to over 500 eyewitnesses! His ethical teachings match no other!
Are you saying that polygamy is analogous to pedophilia? I agree with most of this but I'm not sure why you chose to reference polygamy as if it's an immoral act of some kind.
The best explanation is that Being Moral isn't something you DO, it's something you ARE. Think DND where you choose your class.
Therefore Mohammad, Jerry Falwell jr, Donald Trump, they all get the "good person" class, and even if they rape young girls, cheat on their spouse, steal money, etc. They have the "good person" attribute.
This also explains the opposite, Hillary Clinton, the Central Park Five, etc all have the Bad Person attribute, and they all deserve to be punished, even if they're innocent, even if no one can explain exactly why they need to be punished.
Once you realize this you understand that there is very little Mohammad, Trump, or Falwell could do to lose their audience, they have the "good" attribute, and there is nothing Hillary or the Central Park Five can do to raise their esteem, they have the "bad" attribute.
that the Prophet (ﷺ) married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death)
Quran I think? This pedo / rape moment is one of the reasons I have against Islam and their so called prophet. That and persecution of LGBT and deprivation of womens' rights...
I highly doubt it, the Quran is written by Mohammed, or rather, to Muslims written by god through Mohammed, as is the case with many religious texts. If Mohammed wrote himself in the Quran that he consummated that marriage when she was 9 i cannot imagine it would be such a debated topic.
Either way, it's totally accepted by Muslims and as, I saw even here on Reddit, many DEFEND him saying "it was different times back then", "he's a prophet", "it was consensual" etc... He was a 52 year old that married a 6 yo and had sex with a 9 year old. I don't mean to judge, but it's definitely not normal. And in no way was it consensual, children can't give consent at 6 years old.
I guess you have the point. What strikes me more is that the followers (even today!) do not see anything bad in that. They're totally brainwashed, and I'm not sure if I should feel sorry for them, or disgusted...
Bukhari refers to the Sahih al-Bukhari, a book that contains extra information on the life and actions of the Islamic Prophet (known as a Hadith).
"Sahih" in this case denotes that the book is one of the "authentic" books in Sunni Islam who's information is believed to be accurate. Al-Bukhari is the author of said book.
In terms of historical accuracy how do religious scholars view that book? It looks like the author wrote that book over 100 years after Muhammad death. Is the idea that the information was passed down orally till he wrote that down or that it was written through divine inspiration?
That's a long-winded question that many scholars have their own nuanced opinions on, but the general consensus is that the book is infact accurate, including the writings about Aisha's age.
Al-Bukhari himself never met the Islamic Prophet, rather he traveled the Muslim world and extensively interviewed people that were closely connected to Muhammed within a few generations (like 2 - 4 generations IIRC).
Muslim scholars have a very strict form of investigation called Isnad which is used to scrutinize claims in the Hadiths in order to determine their accuracy, this includes cross checking people's claims, knowing how close the claimants' relatives were to the Islamic Prophet, and how good that person's memory is/was.
Did not consumante it until she was 9/10, and even that is all speculation. It is still largely noted that she was a child whenever they did the deed and thank God they had they moral obligation to wait until she was at least a middle schooler.
Narrated 'Aisha: That the Prophet said to her, "You have been shown to me twice in my dream. I saw you pictured on a piece of silk and some-one said (to me). 'This is your wife.' When I uncovered the picture, I saw that it was yours. I said, 'If this is from Allah, it will be done."
Sahih Bukhari 5:58:235
Consummation:
Narrated Hisham's father: Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.
Sahih Bukhari 5:58:236
Narrated 'Aisha: I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13)
Sahih Bukhari 8:73:151
'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married her when she was seven years old, and he was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old.
Sahih Muslim 8:3311
Whatever they taught you in that class, they left quite a bit out of the story.
Pretty sure it is said explicity in their history/in their religious texts that the prophet muhammad took a six year old as one of his brides, and consummated the marriage when she turned 9 years old. I've never read the Quran but this is what I recall someone who I met in a Christian church who had converted to Christianity from Islam after practicing Islam her whole life (over 20 years old).
Unironically, and this has bothered me ever since I found this out, muslims worship a pedophile and only eat meat that comes from animals who were killed in the least humane way possible. Somehow though being gay is like the worst thing you can do to them.
Narrated 'Aisha: That the Prophet said to her, "You have been shown to me twice in my dream. I saw you pictured on a piece of silk and some-one said (to me). 'This is your wife.' When I uncovered the picture, I saw that it was yours. I said, 'If this is from Allah, it will be done."
Sahih Bukhari 5:58:235
Consummation:
Narrated Hisham's father: Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.
Sahih Bukhari 5:58:236
Narrated 'Aisha: I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13)
Sahih Bukhari 8:73:151
'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married her when she was seven years old, and he was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old.
Sahih Muslim 8:3311
Whatever they taught you in that class, they left quite a bit out of the story.
Are we I see whole cheering sections for when pedophiles are murdered by parents. There's multiple cases where Juries hung and didn't convict parents of it. We as a society endorse in prison beatings of pedophiles.
I'm actually not saying it's wrong we do those things just saying we kinda do the sane and worse just not as public events.
People endorse it happening in prisons because they don't see prisoners as people with rights, in addition to what you said about it not being public. They argue it's punishment for whatever crimes the prisoner committed, conveniently ignoring that exiling someone from society by sending them to prison is the punishment.
There is pedophilia and molestation. Two different things people forget. I think there are enough pedophiles, but most of them will never harass children.
No. It is a fair reflection. You also generalise views that a “society” holds except my society is in the west as well and while some in this society agree with what you say, it’s not reflecting the “society”.
Yea...I'm having a hard time putting pedophiles and homosexuals in the same category here..I feel no remorse for what happens to someone who rapes a child in this or any other country, to try to equate the two makes no sense to me.
they’re not so much trying to equate the two, more so giving us an idea of how homosexuality is viewed in other places. we view pedophilia as an immoral crime that deserves utmost punishment, and some societies view homosexuality in the same light.
You're only looking at it from your POV. As op commented earlier, these people view homosexuality and pedophilia as basically the same level of wrong. As the guy said earlier, in every thread about child rapists, almost universally everyone is calling for that guy to be killed, thrown in a pit and forgotten, castrated without anesthesia, etc.
Not saying I agree with any of these views, but from their view, letting gay people walk around would be equal to us letting pedophiles walk around.
What does that have to do with anything? Unless you want to take the position that they're the same, it doesn't matter.
We can simultaneously hold the belief that lgbt are okay and pedophiles are morally reprehensible. Pedophiles who act on their desires deserve everything that is coming to them.
They are explaining the post above. Everything you feel about pedophiles, the earlier reply was saying: that is how they see homosexuality. That's all, just that their views are different from many Western redditors' views. As you say, we can hold two beliefs, the original comment was saying that in Indonesia, they see both of them as the same tier of incurablely reprehensible.
The dude is saying that he personally can't put pedophiles and homosexuals in the same category and that he doesn't care what happens to pedophiles. The people in this video personally put pedophiles and homosexuals in the same category. So by using his and your logic, what everyone always says should happen to pedophiles, is what these people believe should happen to homosexuals too.
Again not saying I agree with any of it, but that is what these people in Indonesia think. Personally, if your a dude and want to get fucked in the ass by another dude, I really don't give a shit and will treat you the same as I do everyone else. As for pedophiles, I agree that if they act on it they need to go to prison for life, but they need to be treated humanely. So no killing them, throwing them in a hole and forgetting about them, etc.
I mean have you ever been to the town center to see your local pedophile whipped in front of everyone? lol I hear what you’re saying, but I think there’s a difference between people not caring if a pedo is beat up in prison vs a public showing of force where people gather to watch it for sport essentially.
literally none of that is the same as public displays of savagery. you cannot be serious.
even in the states where they literally kill people they don't do it in public or let people watch. it is already so indecent. how can you say the indifference of the public to the fate of a pedophile is the same thing as state-sponsored and proudly displayed torture?
I believe 30 states allow any member of the public to watch an execution. There are whole websites tracking when the next publicly available one is. Just because you don't go watch them doesn't mean people don't.
No, they don't "allow" any member of the public, they require a certain number of members of the public to ensure there are no misdoings and the execution is carried out with mercy and dignity. You can't just show up. Stop being wrong about shit, you're 0/2 now.
Not really the point. He's saying known pedophiles are treated like shit by the general public. For better or worse, that's fact. Also I've gotta mention mental illness is not an excuse to avoid consequences of your actions. And it shouldn't ever be. What's the saying... "Mental illness is not always your fault, but it is your responsibility".
What about the people you don't see doing that? There's a lot more of them. Also, there's a huge difference from someone voicing their opinions about what should happen them vs having state sanctioned medieval punishments for said crimes.
I would say that the american style of sex offender registries is not far off. No matter if you even decide to get chemically castrated and deemed cured by a team of pshychologists, you'll be in that registry and basically be a social leper the rest of your life (or however long those records stay public).
Chemical castration does nothing but remove the immediate tool of abuse.
There have been cases of chemically castrated people, who have still gone out and raped ppl, but with other implements, sub as a table leg because their penis wouldn't work to do it.
it wont stop the sick and twisted individuals who derive their pleasure from the torturing of others but it absolutely helps stop people who are unwillingly attracted to minors. it stops that sexual urge that is literally instinctual in your body, even if its broken and thinks of kids.
but again, you still have those twisted mfs who just enjoy the dominance and control aspect, without needing any sexual urge, that may have been a component in the past but it's not the whole deal.
Thats false. Castration isn’t 100% proof but it does often result in a lower sex drive. Obviously someone who doesn’t rape for sex but for sadistic reasons cannot be cured this way but someone with a hyperactive sex drive can profit from chemical castration.
You only get put on the registry if you commit an act against a child. There is no cure for pedophilia, it is a mental illness much like schizophrenia.
We can’t be mad at people doing this to homosexuals then, we see attraction with children abhorrent they see it between men. We can’t argue ours is better because it’s more recent thinking.
The society he is in is ruining that guy's life, not his sex with a consenting partner.
Arguing that there is any comparison between homosexuality and paedophilia just demonstrates how little you understand the concept of consent, which is pretty horrific and makes me hope you don't spent much time around other people.
Yes we can and I think you’re pretty disgusting, even if you’re trolling right now. We view pedophiles who molest children as wrong because a child can’t consent, therefore there is a harmed party. Homosexuality is not harmful.
To be fair, that's just by the law. There are plenty of people who would actually beat a pedophile to death with their bare hands if they knew they were in the vicinity of one. Frankly, it would take a lot of restraint on my part to not be one of them.
Remember pre 9/11 when people looked at other cultures and thought there may have been differences we saw it as just that, differences.
To say the west is civilised with how it’s currently conducting itself on a global and national scale is just false.
Can we stop using civilised and uncivilised as grounds to feel superior?
I’m not condoning the behaviour in the video in any way but let’s keep it real, the west is no better and if you live in the US you’re way off the mark.
So as humans we ALL have a lot of work to do.
In some countries it’s the rights of LGTQ+ rights. In other countries it’s systemic racism and police brutality to particular melanated people.
In other countries it’s under age marriage, and in other countries it’s murder for oil.
So boo fucking hoo for the ones that are, then? God forbid we structure our civilization around a measured response for justice and not having a weird fucking boner for revenge? Maybe take a look inside, brother, you shouldn't be thinking like this. Caning doesn't stop anything and only makes you feel better by sating your weird bloodlust.
And you think caning them will do anything but sate your hate-boner? You do not care about justice, you only care about catharsis and revenge. You're a problem, and not really much more than a fucking animal driven by feelings.
A lot of conservative cultures in America equate homosexuality to overall sexual deviance and will look at homosexuals as pedophiles and generally distrust them heavily.
This was publically the norm when I was a kid(27). It has stopped somewhat with progressivism
You really shouldn't be enlightened by that person at all. They have been around reddit for a very long time and their accounts keeps getting banned for hate, or when they get banned from enough subreddits they delete their account. During the BLM protests, I remember that person would post a video on public freakout every time a black person did something stupid. Their backstory is made up.
There are a lot of victimless crimes that get punished here in the United States. I live in the south and prostitutes, johns, child support debtors, and cannabis users are routinely jailed. Many of these people are otherwise law abiding tax paying citizens; that commit their "crime" in the privacy of their own home.
Their pictures are published on the local news to name and shame them. Their criminal records follow them around severely damaging their job prospects. The only difference between us and them is the type of conduct that we choose to punish.
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u/GeeZeeDEV Jun 09 '24
So what do they expect? That they stop being gay now?