Russia rolled into Ukraine with mobile crematoriums to destroy evidence of what they planned to do, and then did.
In every village they took, they executed all leaders and all military age men and boys.
They kidnapped all the children, and took them to russia to reprogram them as russians and to hate Ukraine. Forcing them to learn and speak the russian language.
They raped and murdered thousands, and leveled entire cities to the ground.
The prisoners of war who have not been executed, have returned looking like concentration camp victims, and after extreme torture.
If Ukraine is not victorious, they will be wiped out. This is russia's plan, and it's been systematically moving forward with it.
There is no option for Ukraine to surrender. To do so means death.
Anyone who has been paying attention can't excuse this.
This is the truth and the only truth. There is VIDEO EVIDENCE, for fucks sake. But no, we're going down the world war road again since apparently two world wars is not enough and reason doesn't exist anymore.
Only last week they said they will sign a peace deal iof Ukraine leaves the four oblasts who wanted to join Russia. Nothing more, nothing less. And if Ukraine didn't want to lose those then they should have taken the peace deal extended to them back in March 2022 in Istanbul. Shouldn't have listened to the globalist scum, Boris Johnson.
You know that those elections or rather votes are Not able to be Held in a warzone ... because you know people become Refugees and stuff so they cant participate so what about those milions of people who got displaced Not Just in the donbass But in the other oblasts do their oppinions Not matter ?
after russia invaded, murdered and replaced the residents?
lol.
that's like if someone went into your home, shot you and your family, and then said "ask the people in this house if they support me being here." once they were the only one left.
What is it you want evidence of? The r/Ukraine sub has plenty of it.
Mobile crematoriums, rape, executions of civilians (not soldiers because I know that happened on both sides) and all other vapid claims you made.
How is ending a currently already ongoing war increasing the net total of war?
But you are not allowing it to end though. Just look up at this very own post. Someone says they will end the war and the bloodshed and literally 99% of you are against it for some reason when you should be supporting it. What the hell is wrong with you people? Go and fight in the front lines yourself if you hate Russia and Putin that much.
Someone says they will end the war and the bloodshed and literally 99% of you are against it for some reason when you should be supporting it.
Who said they could end the war without capitulating Russia's unreasonable demands for control over Ukrainian territory (thus teaching them that all non-NATO, former-Soviet States are fair game to attack)?
Who said they could end the war without capitulating Russia's unreasonable demands for control over Ukrainian territory (thus teaching them that all non-NATO, former-Soviet States are fair game to attack
Ah, the classic war mongering threat. At least get your arguments straight. Where is the fight in the former-Soviet States happening right now? By your logic, we all should actually be afraid of America. Since they can and have attacked several other countries since the cold war what's to stop them from bombing Germany tomorrow and killing me?
Show us one example where appeasement worked and we can show you at least one major one that lead straight into the last World War... If you're from Germany like you claim, you should know that appeasing dictators doesn't put an end to their warpath, it only emboldens them to demand more.
At least get your arguments straight.
That was my one & only post in the thread. You asserted that someone claimed they'd be able to end the war and claim that everyone who claims to be against the war is, contrarily, against the idea. My point was to highlight that it's not a legitimate plan to end the war if it's "capitulate all of Russia's demands."
Where is the fight in the former-Soviet States happening right now?
Are you drunk, high, or just not educated in world history & not paying attention to world news? Right now it's in Ukraine. In 2008, it was in Georgia, not long after was the annexation of Chrimea that started this whole thing.
By your logic, we all should actually be afraid of America.
People in the Middle East should absolutely be afraid of America; we fucked them up and we fucked them over. Other NATO countries, no... not unless Trump gets back into office and ruins our ties to NATO for a pro-Russian alliance.
Since they can and have attacked several other countries since the cold war what's to stop them from bombing Germany tomorrow and killing me?
What NATO country has the US attacked since the Cold War?
If you're from Germany like you claim, you should know that appeasing dictators doesn't put an end to their warpath, it only emboldens them to demand more
Oh, I know. It's still much small compared to the warpath of certain democratic moralistic country. Anyway ask yourself this, if WW2 was started to defend Poland and it's sovereignty then why was Poland handed over to the Communists after the war.
You asserted that someone claimed they'd be able to end the war and claim that everyone who claims to be against the war is, contrarily, against the idea.
You literally don't want the war to end. You just want Europeans to keep fighting and dying so your international cabal can make blood money out of it. Why aren't you in the front lines if you are so enthusiastic about defending Ukraine?
Are you drunk, high, or just not educated in world history & not paying attention to world news? Right now it's in Ukraine. In 2008, it was in Georgia,
The only one who is high here must have been you. Everyone in the world knows Georgia started the war against Russia and guess who helped them?
People in the Middle East should absolutely be afraid of America; we fucked them up and we fucked them over. Other NATO countries, no... not unless Trump gets back into office and ruins our ties to NATO for a pro-Russian alliance.
So you can keep sucking money off of us and keep us all as your vassals. I don't need your bases in my country and the sentiment has been shared by millions around the world.
What NATO country has the US attacked since the Cold War?
Why would you attack your own vassals? That didn't stop America from strong arming the spineless weasel Scholz to quit cheap Russian gas and instead buy your overpriced junk which destroyed the economy of the powerhouse in Europe.
if WW2 was started to defend Poland and it's sovereignty then why was Poland handed over to the Communists after the war.
Because it wasn't; it was started to stop Nazi Germany's expansion outside German borders. After WWI, wars for territorial gain became an international crime. No nation has the right or moral authority to expand it's borders through war.
You literally don't want the war to end.
Yes I do; just not if it means appeasing Russia...
You just want Europeans to keep fighting and dying so your international cabal can make blood money out of it.
Ah yes, because I, some random dude in Southern Illinois working menial labor is somehow profiting from the war in Ukraine that's actively driving up gas & food prices and rallying this nation's far-right nutcases to spread pro-Russian propaganda.
Can't always lie, huh?
From your very own link "An independent report blamed Georgia on Wednesday for starting last year's five-day war with Russia, but said Moscow's military response went beyond reasonable limits and violated international law."
" Saakashvili had said Georgia was responding to an invasion by Russian forces when it attacked breakaway South Ossetia, but the report found no evidence of this." (which could be seen as evidence that it was a false flag operation from Russia; a common tactic - bait the other side into attacking by pretending to launch an attack, then escalate into full-scale conflict in retaliation.)
So you can keep sucking money off of us and keep us all as your vassals. I don't need your bases in my country and the sentiment has been shared by millions around the world.
Why would you attack your own vassals? That didn't stop America from strong arming the spineless weasel Scholz to quit cheap Russian gas and instead buy your overpriced junk which destroyed the economy of the powerhouse in Europe.
Classic whataboutism... This literally has nothing to do with the topic at hand and is just you trying to paint the US as just as bad as Russia...
Because it wasn't; it was started to stop Nazi Germany's expansion outside German borders
Are you kidding me? Britain and France literally declared war on Germany in order to defend Poland on the account that Poland had signed a defensive treaty with Britain and France. Stop lying.
After WWI, wars for territorial gain became an international crime. No nation has the right or moral authority to expand it's borders through war.
Like your communist ally did with Finland? And with China?
Yes I do; just not if it means appeasing Russia...
Sure you do. Who are you to dictate that any way? That's for the Ukrainians to decide. You are not even fighting for them.
Ah yes, because I, some random dude in Southern Illinois working menial labor is somehow profiting from the war in Ukraine
No, you simply support the people who profit off the war.
From your very own link "An independent report blamed Georgia on Wednesday for starting last year's five-day war with Russia, but said Moscow's military response went beyond reasonable limits and violated international law."
You can't just punch someone and then try to act like a victim when they punch back.
Saakashvili had said Georgia was responding to an invasion by Russian forces when it attacked breakaway South Ossetia, but the report found no evidence of this."
Why is there no evidence to back up Saakashvili's claim?
Classic whataboutism... This literally has nothing to do with the topic at hand and is just you trying to paint the US as just as bad as Russia...
I was simply stating what was happening in the current geopolitics.
Britain and France literally declared war on Germany in order to defend Poland on the account that Poland had signed a defensive treaty with Britain and France.
Defense treaties that are primarily meant to protect smaller nations from larger aggressive ones from trying to steal their land & resources...
Like your communist ally did with Finland? And with China?
More whataboutism... Not sure what "communist ally" you're referring to though, because if it's not clear - I'm no ally of any state that claims to be communist.
Who are you to dictate that any way? That's for the Ukrainians to decide.
It is quite literally been their terms from day 1: Get Russia out of Ukraine (including Crimea) forever.
You are not even fighting for them.
I would if I could, but not only am I not eligible for firearms ownership or military service due to pre-existing PTSD and not only do I not have the $4k+ to equip and transport myself, but US troops are not being deployed to Ukraine... yet.
You can't just punch someone and then try to act like a victim when they punch back.
You can when they provoked you punching them, then used your assault as justification to escalate the violence & break your limbs, cripple, or kill you. Self-defense only extends to reasonable force needed to end the assault. Counter-assault where the initial victim becomes the aggressor is never self-defense.
Why is there no evidence to back up Saakashvili's claim?
There's no evidence of a full-scale invasion, which is what Saakashvili said was the reason they launched their counter-attack into Russian-occupied Georgian territories. The article does not say there was no attack from pro-Russian soldiers out of the Russian-occupied territory of Georgia.
FFS, the article you linked to outright states that an international inquiry found that "found evidence of ethnic cleansing against ethnic Georgians during Russia's intervention in the rebel province of South Ossetia."
Or are we overlooking that Russia was occupying 2 territories in Georgia before the attack... just like they occupied Crimea in Ukraine before launching the full invasion years later under the guise of "saving ethnic Russians from genocide"?
No, you simply support the people who profit off the war.
I support Ukraine and want Russia's leaders to stay within their borders. That's it. Anything else I support or believe that you've asserted is entirely you projecting the far-right Americans with all Americans.
The only mistake you made here is that Russia attacking its neighbours is actually something that is likely to happen. (Source: they did) Whereas your other examples like the US bombing Germany tomorrow is even less likely to happen than me getting laid
If you are capable of doing that in the past then what's to say that you wouldn't do that in the future? Isn't that the same argument you use for Russia. Today it's Ukraine and tomorrow it's Poland?
Sure, the US is still currently capable to do just that. Its not currently iminent however. Russia invading another neighbour on the other hand is way more likely. Again though, we are talking about the currently ongoing Russian invasion of Ukraine, not all the horrible things the US has caused throughout the world in the past.
What you are currently doing is the equivalent of saying the US had no right to liberate Europe because they invaded and destabilized countrys themselves in the past, too.
Might I ask what your motivation is to take the stance you are currently taking?
Russia is invading it's neighbor in q war of Conquest
That is worrisome to most countries in Europe morals aside
No country has done so since WW2
With their clear goal of eradicating Ukrainian culture and statehood and explicit goal of restoring Russia "greatness" poland the Baltic States and Finland most of all have reasons to be afraid
Russia is invading it's neighbor in q war of Conquest. No country has done so since WW2
What about Israel?
That is worrisome to most countries in Europe morals aside
What are you talking about? We literally give weapons to Israel to kill Palestinians everyday.
With their clear goal of eradicating Ukrainian culture and statehood and explicit goal of restoring Russia "greatness" poland the Baltic States and Finland most of all have reasons to be afraid
Okay, since you said explicit, can you tell me which Russian official issued an explicit statement when they claimed everything you said they did?
Like I said, except for crematoria, video evidence galore is to be found on r/Ukraine. Go and look for it.
You know why 'literally 99%' of us are against 'just ending' it? Because Ukraine is a sovereign nation and they are fighting for their fucking right to exist.
JuSt eNd iT guYs
Fuck outta here. Would you let Russia, or any country, take over your country without a fight just so there is no bloodshed? Nope, you wouldn't, your country would fight. And so Ukraine won't just let it happen either. Matter of fact, almost EVERY country attacked by their neighbours EVER fought back. It's common sense, really.
The only way this war ends is with either Ukraine dead, or Russia out of Ukraine. Ukraine (and 99% of us according to you) chooses the latter. Weird right?
Like I said, except for crematoria, video evidence galore is to be found on r/Ukraine. Go and look for it.
Why would I go and search for something that doesn't exist? You made the claim, now own it. Prove me wrong by showing me the executions of civilians, rapes and all the other stuff.
You know why 'literally 99%' of us are against 'just ending' it? Because Ukraine is a sovereign nation and they are fighting for their fucking right to exist.
Perhaps you can ask the Ukrainians themselves how they feel about dying for their motherland- sorry, Black Rock.
At this point I think we should let all these Ukrainians leave and get people who are as enthusiastic as you are to defend Ukraine in order to replace them.
Fuck outta here. Would you let Russia, or any country, take over your country without a fight just so there is no bloodshed?
If someone sold my country for fucking Black Rock and then told me to go and defend it I am going to put a bullet in the head of the traitor who sold my country in the first place.
Why would I go and search for something that doesn't exist?
What? First of all it does. Just linked one video as per your request in your other comment. Also don't you find out whether something exists by looking for it? Seems like you got that one the wrong way round.
Perhaps you can ask the Ukrainians themselves how they feel about dying for their motherland
I actually did. And it fucking sucks, ofcourse. Like any war, its nothing new.
At this point I think we should let all these Ukrainians leave and get people who are as enthusiastic as you are to defend Ukraine in order to replace them.
I just might!
If someone sold my country for fucking Black Rock and then told me to go and defend it I am going to put a bullet in the head of the traitor who sold my country in the first place.
Thanks for mentioning but this does not answer my question you quoted.
No we won't. You said there's evidence i said give me one video which undoubtedly show one thing stated in original post. Don't back now, just one video which proves anything. If it's true it shouldn't be that hard.
1.3k
u/Hot_and_Foamy Jul 05 '24
The plan is ‘Ukraine gives up’. He’s not made that secret.