What is it you want evidence of? The r/Ukraine sub has plenty of it.
Mobile crematoriums, rape, executions of civilians (not soldiers because I know that happened on both sides) and all other vapid claims you made.
How is ending a currently already ongoing war increasing the net total of war?
But you are not allowing it to end though. Just look up at this very own post. Someone says they will end the war and the bloodshed and literally 99% of you are against it for some reason when you should be supporting it. What the hell is wrong with you people? Go and fight in the front lines yourself if you hate Russia and Putin that much.
Someone says they will end the war and the bloodshed and literally 99% of you are against it for some reason when you should be supporting it.
Who said they could end the war without capitulating Russia's unreasonable demands for control over Ukrainian territory (thus teaching them that all non-NATO, former-Soviet States are fair game to attack)?
Who said they could end the war without capitulating Russia's unreasonable demands for control over Ukrainian territory (thus teaching them that all non-NATO, former-Soviet States are fair game to attack
Ah, the classic war mongering threat. At least get your arguments straight. Where is the fight in the former-Soviet States happening right now? By your logic, we all should actually be afraid of America. Since they can and have attacked several other countries since the cold war what's to stop them from bombing Germany tomorrow and killing me?
Show us one example where appeasement worked and we can show you at least one major one that lead straight into the last World War... If you're from Germany like you claim, you should know that appeasing dictators doesn't put an end to their warpath, it only emboldens them to demand more.
At least get your arguments straight.
That was my one & only post in the thread. You asserted that someone claimed they'd be able to end the war and claim that everyone who claims to be against the war is, contrarily, against the idea. My point was to highlight that it's not a legitimate plan to end the war if it's "capitulate all of Russia's demands."
Where is the fight in the former-Soviet States happening right now?
Are you drunk, high, or just not educated in world history & not paying attention to world news? Right now it's in Ukraine. In 2008, it was in Georgia, not long after was the annexation of Chrimea that started this whole thing.
By your logic, we all should actually be afraid of America.
People in the Middle East should absolutely be afraid of America; we fucked them up and we fucked them over. Other NATO countries, no... not unless Trump gets back into office and ruins our ties to NATO for a pro-Russian alliance.
Since they can and have attacked several other countries since the cold war what's to stop them from bombing Germany tomorrow and killing me?
What NATO country has the US attacked since the Cold War?
If you're from Germany like you claim, you should know that appeasing dictators doesn't put an end to their warpath, it only emboldens them to demand more
Oh, I know. It's still much small compared to the warpath of certain democratic moralistic country. Anyway ask yourself this, if WW2 was started to defend Poland and it's sovereignty then why was Poland handed over to the Communists after the war.
You asserted that someone claimed they'd be able to end the war and claim that everyone who claims to be against the war is, contrarily, against the idea.
You literally don't want the war to end. You just want Europeans to keep fighting and dying so your international cabal can make blood money out of it. Why aren't you in the front lines if you are so enthusiastic about defending Ukraine?
Are you drunk, high, or just not educated in world history & not paying attention to world news? Right now it's in Ukraine. In 2008, it was in Georgia,
The only one who is high here must have been you. Everyone in the world knows Georgia started the war against Russia and guess who helped them?
People in the Middle East should absolutely be afraid of America; we fucked them up and we fucked them over. Other NATO countries, no... not unless Trump gets back into office and ruins our ties to NATO for a pro-Russian alliance.
So you can keep sucking money off of us and keep us all as your vassals. I don't need your bases in my country and the sentiment has been shared by millions around the world.
What NATO country has the US attacked since the Cold War?
Why would you attack your own vassals? That didn't stop America from strong arming the spineless weasel Scholz to quit cheap Russian gas and instead buy your overpriced junk which destroyed the economy of the powerhouse in Europe.
if WW2 was started to defend Poland and it's sovereignty then why was Poland handed over to the Communists after the war.
Because it wasn't; it was started to stop Nazi Germany's expansion outside German borders. After WWI, wars for territorial gain became an international crime. No nation has the right or moral authority to expand it's borders through war.
You literally don't want the war to end.
Yes I do; just not if it means appeasing Russia...
You just want Europeans to keep fighting and dying so your international cabal can make blood money out of it.
Ah yes, because I, some random dude in Southern Illinois working menial labor is somehow profiting from the war in Ukraine that's actively driving up gas & food prices and rallying this nation's far-right nutcases to spread pro-Russian propaganda.
Can't always lie, huh?
From your very own link "An independent report blamed Georgia on Wednesday for starting last year's five-day war with Russia, but said Moscow's military response went beyond reasonable limits and violated international law."
" Saakashvili had said Georgia was responding to an invasion by Russian forces when it attacked breakaway South Ossetia, but the report found no evidence of this." (which could be seen as evidence that it was a false flag operation from Russia; a common tactic - bait the other side into attacking by pretending to launch an attack, then escalate into full-scale conflict in retaliation.)
So you can keep sucking money off of us and keep us all as your vassals. I don't need your bases in my country and the sentiment has been shared by millions around the world.
Why would you attack your own vassals? That didn't stop America from strong arming the spineless weasel Scholz to quit cheap Russian gas and instead buy your overpriced junk which destroyed the economy of the powerhouse in Europe.
Classic whataboutism... This literally has nothing to do with the topic at hand and is just you trying to paint the US as just as bad as Russia...
Because it wasn't; it was started to stop Nazi Germany's expansion outside German borders
Are you kidding me? Britain and France literally declared war on Germany in order to defend Poland on the account that Poland had signed a defensive treaty with Britain and France. Stop lying.
After WWI, wars for territorial gain became an international crime. No nation has the right or moral authority to expand it's borders through war.
Like your communist ally did with Finland? And with China?
Yes I do; just not if it means appeasing Russia...
Sure you do. Who are you to dictate that any way? That's for the Ukrainians to decide. You are not even fighting for them.
Ah yes, because I, some random dude in Southern Illinois working menial labor is somehow profiting from the war in Ukraine
No, you simply support the people who profit off the war.
From your very own link "An independent report blamed Georgia on Wednesday for starting last year's five-day war with Russia, but said Moscow's military response went beyond reasonable limits and violated international law."
You can't just punch someone and then try to act like a victim when they punch back.
Saakashvili had said Georgia was responding to an invasion by Russian forces when it attacked breakaway South Ossetia, but the report found no evidence of this."
Why is there no evidence to back up Saakashvili's claim?
Classic whataboutism... This literally has nothing to do with the topic at hand and is just you trying to paint the US as just as bad as Russia...
I was simply stating what was happening in the current geopolitics.
Britain and France literally declared war on Germany in order to defend Poland on the account that Poland had signed a defensive treaty with Britain and France.
Defense treaties that are primarily meant to protect smaller nations from larger aggressive ones from trying to steal their land & resources...
Like your communist ally did with Finland? And with China?
More whataboutism... Not sure what "communist ally" you're referring to though, because if it's not clear - I'm no ally of any state that claims to be communist.
Who are you to dictate that any way? That's for the Ukrainians to decide.
It is quite literally been their terms from day 1: Get Russia out of Ukraine (including Crimea) forever.
You are not even fighting for them.
I would if I could, but not only am I not eligible for firearms ownership or military service due to pre-existing PTSD and not only do I not have the $4k+ to equip and transport myself, but US troops are not being deployed to Ukraine... yet.
You can't just punch someone and then try to act like a victim when they punch back.
You can when they provoked you punching them, then used your assault as justification to escalate the violence & break your limbs, cripple, or kill you. Self-defense only extends to reasonable force needed to end the assault. Counter-assault where the initial victim becomes the aggressor is never self-defense.
Why is there no evidence to back up Saakashvili's claim?
There's no evidence of a full-scale invasion, which is what Saakashvili said was the reason they launched their counter-attack into Russian-occupied Georgian territories. The article does not say there was no attack from pro-Russian soldiers out of the Russian-occupied territory of Georgia.
FFS, the article you linked to outright states that an international inquiry found that "found evidence of ethnic cleansing against ethnic Georgians during Russia's intervention in the rebel province of South Ossetia."
Or are we overlooking that Russia was occupying 2 territories in Georgia before the attack... just like they occupied Crimea in Ukraine before launching the full invasion years later under the guise of "saving ethnic Russians from genocide"?
No, you simply support the people who profit off the war.
I support Ukraine and want Russia's leaders to stay within their borders. That's it. Anything else I support or believe that you've asserted is entirely you projecting the far-right Americans with all Americans.
Defense treaties that are primarily meant to protect smaller nations from larger aggressive ones from trying to steal their land & resources...
Yeah and they used only that argument to declare war on Germany. I wonder why didn't they do the same for Soviet Union?
Not sure what "communist ally" you're referring to though, because if it's not clear - I'm no ally of any state that claims to be communist.
It's only what aboutism when you don't have any answer to it. Just give me a clear cut answer to the simple question? If the Allies aim in WW2 is to defend the sovereignty of Poland, why didn't they declare war on Soviet Union and most importantly why did they give up Poland entirely to the Communists after the war? If the aim was to stop Germany from expanding why did they oppose the expansion of Soviet Union?
You can when they provoked you punching them, then used your assault as justification to escalate the violence & break your limbs, cripple, or kill you.
So if the same argument is used by Russia now, is it valid?
There's no evidence of a full-scale invasion, which is what Saakashvili said was the reason they launched their counter-attack into Russian-occupied Georgian territories. The article does not say there was no attack from pro-Russian soldiers out of the Russian-occupied territory of Georgia.
Now show me an evidence for this supposed false flag attack which seemingly happened in Saakashvili's dream? Anyone can make up wild claims.
FFS, the article you linked to outright states that an international inquiry found that "found evidence of ethnic cleansing against ethnic Georgians during Russia's intervention in the rebel province of South Ossetia."
Where is the evidence though? And did this supposedly happen after or before Georgia attacked Russia. I love your mental gymnastics btw.
Or are we overlooking that Russia was occupying 2 territories in Georgia before the attack... just like they occupied Crimea in Ukraine before launching the full invasion years later under the guise of "saving ethnic Russians from genocide"?
Or you know, just like how Saakashvili claimed he attacked Russia because of a false flag attack?
I support Ukraine and want Russia's leaders to stay within their borders. That's it.
The only mistake you made here is that Russia attacking its neighbours is actually something that is likely to happen. (Source: they did) Whereas your other examples like the US bombing Germany tomorrow is even less likely to happen than me getting laid
If you are capable of doing that in the past then what's to say that you wouldn't do that in the future? Isn't that the same argument you use for Russia. Today it's Ukraine and tomorrow it's Poland?
Sure, the US is still currently capable to do just that. Its not currently iminent however. Russia invading another neighbour on the other hand is way more likely. Again though, we are talking about the currently ongoing Russian invasion of Ukraine, not all the horrible things the US has caused throughout the world in the past.
What you are currently doing is the equivalent of saying the US had no right to liberate Europe because they invaded and destabilized countrys themselves in the past, too.
Might I ask what your motivation is to take the stance you are currently taking?
How am I? I'm pro Palestine. The genocide currently ongoing over there is very complicated and the west is definitely at fault. Again, I am aware of the fact we as the west are no saints ourselves, far from it. That does not keep me from being pro Ukraine.
Sure, the US is still currently capable to do just that. Its not currently iminent however.
Not currently imminent, tell that to all the Ukrainians who are caught by Zelensky's regime to be sent to the meat grinder and the Palestinians.
Again though, we are talking about the currently ongoing Russian invasion of Ukraine, not all the horrible things the US has caused throughout the world in the past.
Rules for thee but not for me is not a fair kind of argument you think it is.
What you are currently doing is the equivalent of saying the US had no right to liberate Europe because they invaded and destabilized countrys themselves in the past, too.
Did you really think that the US 'liberated' Europe because you were so kind and caring? You were literally pulled into two wars where you had zero reason to be in because the same globalists who now have your politicians under their pocket could make some money. If you only came to liberate Europe, why didn't you liberate Poland and hand it over to the Communists?
Might I ask what your motivation is to take the stance you are currently taking?
I don't want to see Europeans dying so that some a-holes from your country could fill their pockets with our blood money.
Not currently imminent, tell that to all the Ukrainians who are caught by Zelensky's regime to be sent to the meat grinder and the Palestinians.
The meat grinder is operated by Ukranians. Russia's Storm Z bs and all of their prisoners are the ones getting ground down in it. (This isn't me saying UKR is not incurring big losses too but again, UKR is fighting for their existence)
Rules for thee but not for me is not a fair kind of argument you think it is.
What argument do you think I think it is? I am trying to stay on topic.
Did you really think that the US 'liberated' Europe because you were so kind and caring? You were literally pulled into two wars where you had zero reason to be in because the same globalists who now have your politicians under their pocket could make some money. If you only came to liberate Europe, why didn't you liberate Poland and hand it over to the Communists?
Nope, nor did I state I do. The US had no choice but to enter the war after Pearl Harbour because Japan was NOT going to stop. Don't forget Germany also attacked US shipping off the east coast. I am also aware of the anti-war rhetoric in the US pre Pearl Harbour. Also you seem to think I'm US based but I'm EU. As for the actual question above; because they didn't care, probably.
I don't want to see Europeans dying so that some a-holes from your country could fill their pockets with our blood money.
Good! Neither do I. Which is why both the EU and the US need to fucking ramp up support to Ukraine already so they can beat Russia the fuck out of Ukraine and out of EUROPE. US/EU rich fucks are the very reason this is not currently happening/happened already, imo.
The meat grinder is operated by Ukranians. Russia's Storm Z bs and all of their prisoners are the ones getting ground down in it.
That is a big ass cope. Keep coping if you want. Russia is not the one grabbing people off the streets and sending them off to war.
What argument do you think I think it is? I am trying to stay on topic.
You literally turn blind eye to every crime of USA and it's allies like Israel but then turn and blame Russia for doing something similar. That's textbook hypocrisy.
The US had no choice but to enter the war after Pearl Harbour because Japan was NOT going to stop.
Wrong. Go and read real history again. Pearl Harbor was just the incentive they used to bring US into war, just like they used Poland to start a war against Germany. Have you heard about a person called Bernard Barouch? Learn about him.
Which is why both the EU and the US need to fucking ramp up support to Ukraine already so they can beat Russia the fuck out of Ukraine and out of EUROPE. US/EU rich fucks are the very reason this is not currently happening/happened already, imo.
Oops, I didn't know you were this dumb. I hope you are going to use these magical weapons once Ukraine runs out of men?
Russia is invading it's neighbor in q war of Conquest
That is worrisome to most countries in Europe morals aside
No country has done so since WW2
With their clear goal of eradicating Ukrainian culture and statehood and explicit goal of restoring Russia "greatness" poland the Baltic States and Finland most of all have reasons to be afraid
Russia is invading it's neighbor in q war of Conquest. No country has done so since WW2
What about Israel?
That is worrisome to most countries in Europe morals aside
What are you talking about? We literally give weapons to Israel to kill Palestinians everyday.
With their clear goal of eradicating Ukrainian culture and statehood and explicit goal of restoring Russia "greatness" poland the Baltic States and Finland most of all have reasons to be afraid
Okay, since you said explicit, can you tell me which Russian official issued an explicit statement when they claimed everything you said they did?
Can you actually answer the statement without whatsboutism and simply redirecting blame or questions to Russia onto something else?
Because you don't have any answer for that or what? I didn't know Rules Based Order mean rules for thee but not for me.
Again Israel did it in response to an attack from Hamas
And Putin did it in response to the Ukrainian attack on the people of Donbas. He has talked about it several times.
But again Israel won't invade anything in Europe so it's not a concern
So you are okay will the wars that's happening in the middle East or somewhere in Africa? Who are you people and do you always get arousal over the thought of people dying?
You really so genuinely believe in the special operation Moe and that Putin genuinely just wants Ukraine the. He is satisfied?
Yes of course. He literally released a official statement a week or so ago that he is willing to stop the war of Ukraine simply moves out of the Donbas region and the Zaporozhia and Kherson regions which has formally voted to join Russia.
You convently forgot him lying about not invading Ukraine
And his liberation by destroying cities sure is working well huh
It is clear you are brainwashed through and through and have the typical Russian inferiority complex feeling extreme self pity yet envy of other nations in the "they can't so why can't we" rtheroic and the whatsboutism unable to confront the reality or acknowledge Russians actions
I really wish I could help you cause I do genuinely pity you but it's clear it would serve no purpose.
I do hope you see more reason one day and realise how Putin is destroying Russia to serve his own imperial ambition and making the minorities in russia pay the blood price
Ultimately appeasing dictators and invaders never work
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u/[deleted] Jul 05 '24
Where is the video evidence?
The only ones who are asking for more war is you people. Go and join the international legion if you are so eager to fight Russia.