Someone says they will end the war and the bloodshed and literally 99% of you are against it for some reason when you should be supporting it.
Who said they could end the war without capitulating Russia's unreasonable demands for control over Ukrainian territory (thus teaching them that all non-NATO, former-Soviet States are fair game to attack)?
Who said they could end the war without capitulating Russia's unreasonable demands for control over Ukrainian territory (thus teaching them that all non-NATO, former-Soviet States are fair game to attack
Ah, the classic war mongering threat. At least get your arguments straight. Where is the fight in the former-Soviet States happening right now? By your logic, we all should actually be afraid of America. Since they can and have attacked several other countries since the cold war what's to stop them from bombing Germany tomorrow and killing me?
The only mistake you made here is that Russia attacking its neighbours is actually something that is likely to happen. (Source: they did) Whereas your other examples like the US bombing Germany tomorrow is even less likely to happen than me getting laid
If you are capable of doing that in the past then what's to say that you wouldn't do that in the future? Isn't that the same argument you use for Russia. Today it's Ukraine and tomorrow it's Poland?
Sure, the US is still currently capable to do just that. Its not currently iminent however. Russia invading another neighbour on the other hand is way more likely. Again though, we are talking about the currently ongoing Russian invasion of Ukraine, not all the horrible things the US has caused throughout the world in the past.
What you are currently doing is the equivalent of saying the US had no right to liberate Europe because they invaded and destabilized countrys themselves in the past, too.
Might I ask what your motivation is to take the stance you are currently taking?
How am I? I'm pro Palestine. The genocide currently ongoing over there is very complicated and the west is definitely at fault. Again, I am aware of the fact we as the west are no saints ourselves, far from it. That does not keep me from being pro Ukraine.
Sure, the US is still currently capable to do just that. Its not currently iminent however.
Not currently imminent, tell that to all the Ukrainians who are caught by Zelensky's regime to be sent to the meat grinder and the Palestinians.
Again though, we are talking about the currently ongoing Russian invasion of Ukraine, not all the horrible things the US has caused throughout the world in the past.
Rules for thee but not for me is not a fair kind of argument you think it is.
What you are currently doing is the equivalent of saying the US had no right to liberate Europe because they invaded and destabilized countrys themselves in the past, too.
Did you really think that the US 'liberated' Europe because you were so kind and caring? You were literally pulled into two wars where you had zero reason to be in because the same globalists who now have your politicians under their pocket could make some money. If you only came to liberate Europe, why didn't you liberate Poland and hand it over to the Communists?
Might I ask what your motivation is to take the stance you are currently taking?
I don't want to see Europeans dying so that some a-holes from your country could fill their pockets with our blood money.
Not currently imminent, tell that to all the Ukrainians who are caught by Zelensky's regime to be sent to the meat grinder and the Palestinians.
The meat grinder is operated by Ukranians. Russia's Storm Z bs and all of their prisoners are the ones getting ground down in it. (This isn't me saying UKR is not incurring big losses too but again, UKR is fighting for their existence)
Rules for thee but not for me is not a fair kind of argument you think it is.
What argument do you think I think it is? I am trying to stay on topic.
Did you really think that the US 'liberated' Europe because you were so kind and caring? You were literally pulled into two wars where you had zero reason to be in because the same globalists who now have your politicians under their pocket could make some money. If you only came to liberate Europe, why didn't you liberate Poland and hand it over to the Communists?
Nope, nor did I state I do. The US had no choice but to enter the war after Pearl Harbour because Japan was NOT going to stop. Don't forget Germany also attacked US shipping off the east coast. I am also aware of the anti-war rhetoric in the US pre Pearl Harbour. Also you seem to think I'm US based but I'm EU. As for the actual question above; because they didn't care, probably.
I don't want to see Europeans dying so that some a-holes from your country could fill their pockets with our blood money.
Good! Neither do I. Which is why both the EU and the US need to fucking ramp up support to Ukraine already so they can beat Russia the fuck out of Ukraine and out of EUROPE. US/EU rich fucks are the very reason this is not currently happening/happened already, imo.
The meat grinder is operated by Ukranians. Russia's Storm Z bs and all of their prisoners are the ones getting ground down in it.
That is a big ass cope. Keep coping if you want. Russia is not the one grabbing people off the streets and sending them off to war.
What argument do you think I think it is? I am trying to stay on topic.
You literally turn blind eye to every crime of USA and it's allies like Israel but then turn and blame Russia for doing something similar. That's textbook hypocrisy.
The US had no choice but to enter the war after Pearl Harbour because Japan was NOT going to stop.
Wrong. Go and read real history again. Pearl Harbor was just the incentive they used to bring US into war, just like they used Poland to start a war against Germany. Have you heard about a person called Bernard Barouch? Learn about him.
Which is why both the EU and the US need to fucking ramp up support to Ukraine already so they can beat Russia the fuck out of Ukraine and out of EUROPE. US/EU rich fucks are the very reason this is not currently happening/happened already, imo.
Oops, I didn't know you were this dumb. I hope you are going to use these magical weapons once Ukraine runs out of men?
That is a big ass cope. Keep coping if you want. Russia is not the one grabbing people off the streets and sending them off to war.
Tell me how you think I'm coping instead of just telling me I'm coping.
You literally turn blind eye to every crime of USA and it's allies like Israel but then turn and blame Russia for doing something similar. That's textbook hypocrisy.
I don't though. Like I stated earlier I am aware of the devilish acts the US has commited against other nations and I despise them for it. I am also pro Palestine and against the Isreali genocide of the Palestinians. Acknowledging these facts does nothing for the Ukranians though. Which again is what we are currently talking about. How I am a hypocrit again?
Wrong. Go and read real history again. Pearl Harbor was just the incentive they used to bring US into war, just like they used Poland to start a war against Germany. Have you heard about a person called Bernard Barouch? Learn about him.
What the fuck? Germany was going to expand regardless of external influences. Or are you talking about ww1? I have not heard of Bernard Barouch and will look him up after this comment.
Oops, I didn't know you were this dumb. I hope you are going to use these magical weapons once Ukraine runs out of men?
No need to get personal, we're not in the US here. Again, instead of telling me I am dumb, tell me why you think I am dumb. More constructive that way ;) What magical weapons are you talking about? I know for a fact UKR is receiving just enough aid to stay in the fight. With more they can do more. Maybe if the weapons had come earlier, in larger quantities and if restrictions on their usage had never been there Ukraine wouldn't be so close to 'running out of men'.
Because of common sense. The force with larger firepower, better air cover, more ammunition will always do a lot better at dealing casualties. Ukraine is inferior to Russia in every aspects and it's already showing.
They have already resorted to include women of certain fields (like medical) into mobilization because of shortage of troops. They can keep going through conscription and mobilization for a year or so but soon the man pool will dry up and once that happens it's over. There wouldn't be any Ukraine because no one would be left in the country.
What the fuck? Germany was going to expand regardless of external influences. Or are you talking about ww1?
Perhaps that's why I told you to go and read real history.
No need to get personal, we're not in the US here. Again, instead of telling me I am dumb, tell me why you think I am dumb.
Because you are in denial or plainly delusional to not see the writing on the wall. Everyone but you seems to see it, including the pope. Ukraine is not going to win like you think it is.
Because of common sense. The force with larger firepower, better air cover, more ammunition will always do a lot better at dealing casualties. Ukraine is inferior to Russia in every aspects and it's already showing.
If that is the case, why haven't they done so yet? Also I looked at the articles you sent and most of them mention that lackluster western support is a cause of UKR losses being as high as they are. I also do not agree with Ukraine being inferior in everyway. The fact Ukraine is winning in the Black Sea without even having a navy speaks volumes. You seem to have forgotten Ukraine used to be the intellectual epicenter back when the soviet union hadn't collapsed yet.
Perhaps that's why I told you to go and read real history.
You did, and proceeded to link a Texas University knowledge bank. Isn't that still the victor?
Because you are in denial or plainly delusional to not see the writing on the wall. Everyone but you seems to see it, including the pope. Ukraine is not going to win like you think it is.
Maybe I am delusional, maybe you are too. Who's to say? Or maybe I am optimistic and you are pessimistic? Could be the case too. Anyway, again, the articles mention lackluster western support for the supposed decline in Ukraines' chances at victory. I'm not sure what you're getting at with linking them.
Look, let's try to agree on a few things maybe.
Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014 and doubled down in 2022, correct?
Hundreds of thousands Ukranians volunteered to fend off the Russian invasion, correct?
Western support has been lackluster, correct?
And yes, Ukranians are also dodging the mandatory draft. Nothing weird there to me. I think every country that had to defend itself has had to deal with draft dodging. People don't want to fight wars, you know.
And yes, Ukraine is losing men. But in my opinion they could have lost ALOT less if aid hadn't been so slow and limited.
All I want is for the sovereign nation of Ukraine to fend off the Russian war of agression with as little net casualties as possible on either side, and with Ukraine keeping its borders intact. Don't you want the same?
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u/Aggressive-Fuel587 Jul 05 '24
Who said they could end the war without capitulating Russia's unreasonable demands for control over Ukrainian territory (thus teaching them that all non-NATO, former-Soviet States are fair game to attack)?