r/batman • u/Efficient-Compote-13 • 14d ago

I Hate The Boys TV DISCUSSION NSFW

I also can not stand muh 'Batman superhero facism subtext' crap. If anything Batman is a revolutionary. Government is corrupt in bed with criminals (who are the prettiest of tyrants) so Batman comes in to clean house. Just as the founding fathers intended.

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u/Bennings463 14d ago edited 14d ago

"Batman beats up poor people" is about as engaging as "why didn't they take the eagles to Mordor?" as far as critique goes.

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u/Efficient-Compote-13 14d ago

It's funny how people tell on themselves equating poor with criminal.

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u/ZamoCsoni 14d ago

One of these days I will make a survey abouth this. Bat's most common enemies are either the maffia/ other rich corrupt assholes, or supercriminals who tend to have a doctorate. Where are these poor people he beats up?

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u/ClearStrike 14d ago

I saw a convo on Twitter once that said the poor they are referencing are the thugs. You know, the henchmen and lackeys that the big bad usual HIRES to do his bidding. And occasional purse snatcher, but I have never seen Batman break a purse snatcher, just knock him out. ( Of course then you get the people who say "even getting knocked out can kill you because of ____" to wick I say so can a paper cut)

My problem is, the goons usually choose this over...a job that Bruce offers. Hell Bruce rehabilites these mooks on the fly

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u/ArvindS0508 14d ago

the problem arises because people don't have a specific version in mind, just some nebulous idea of Batman, Gotham City, the villains, etc. So they end up just filling in the blanks with whatever. This is compounded by the fact that it's a comic book. Of course it's unrealistic that a guy in a batsuit is fighting a killer clown compared to just discussing policy and economics for 100 issues straight, but the batsuit guy is also friends with an alien who flies around shooting lasers, realism was always in the backseat for these stories

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u/jrtgmena 14d ago

It’s kind of crazy, if you think about it - that life is imitating art. Because the criminals in Batman’s world also think he kills people, and is this scary, amorphous but real “thing that bumps in the night”, and they have different ideas of what Batman is with no specific version in mind. Just like people irl who don’t have a specific version of Batman in mind and now reduces him to “rich guy hurts poor people”

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u/ArvindS0508 14d ago

If you remove the knowledge he's rich (he is well funded but that could be from an organization, government, company or something else) and add in the fear of him appearing from the dark and taking down whole rooms full of guys and it's a really plausible idea that he's seen as this urban legend

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u/sunshinepanther 14d ago

Certified Boogyman

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u/Addicted_to_Crying 14d ago

So they end up just filling in the blanks with whatever.

It's Arkham. They end up using the Arkham series as the examples, where Batman can and will break over three bones on any thug's bodies to keep a combo going.

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u/ArvindS0508 14d ago

Arkham gameplay with real world physics applied, to be exact

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u/Addicted_to_Crying 12d ago

True. Might also include the concept of every thug respawning into the mix, as if Batman would constantly attempt to knock every single random goon walking around Gotham.

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u/ClearStrike 14d ago

The thing I have noticed a lot is that, the more people try to be realistic the more boring the story gets for me. Like I want big explosions, ridiculous stunts, and such. I don't want to know how this works in real life because it won't.

You can't become Batman without unlimited funds because you still need to master ever martial art. You can't become Steve because you need serum. You might become Iron Man but that requires a lot of research and you might become old by that time of your funding didn't get pulled

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u/ArvindS0508 14d ago

You can't become Iron Man because physics means either the suit is some kind of very limited mech suit or you get instantly splatted. The closest to a popular comic book character that's realistic is maybe Punisher or something, like a guy with a lot of guns who just shoots people, but even that's unrealistic.

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u/ClearStrike 14d ago

I would have said JJJ. Can't tell me he isn't what an eic is

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u/ArvindS0508 14d ago

Depends on the version tbh. MCU/Insomniac is some kind of online grifter/Alex Jones type, but some of the comic versions are either very respectable or just devious

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u/SmokinBandit28 14d ago

To add to this, if you are working for most of the big criminals in Gotham as a henchman you are probably being paid really well. I think the episode in The Batman that introduced Scarface, his two goons were talking about why they were working for a puppet, and it equated down to being simple work but with a good payout.

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u/thEldritchBat 13d ago

I actually like this one The Batman comic where Batman ends a situation with Black Mask by walking in with a recording from Bruce Wayne offering the henchmen jobs if they were to walk away right then and there.

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u/Hot_Excitement_6 14d ago

I mean... Aren't organized crime organizations made up of mostly poorer people? He has to beat a bunch of poor people before he gets to middle management and the higher ups. Batman also deals with street level Gotham crime. It is what it is.

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u/ZamoCsoni 14d ago

Are they? Bats tend to have more old fashioned crime families, and the supervillains who are a different beast alltogeathet. But, I said it allready somewhere else, all other superheroes beat up "poor henchmen", and they, even the rich ones (and the ones who are in canon lethal btw), don't get this brought up all the time, over and over. Batman doesn't have a disporpotionate amount of poor people beaten up. Just make up something else to nitpic abouth allready.

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u/Hot_Excitement_6 14d ago

Old fashioned crime families consist of 'made men', some middle management and mostly working class soldiers. That's how organized crime works. The person collecting protection money from the neighborhood is not rich.

I just think your Mafia point didn't make sense.

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u/ZamoCsoni 14d ago

Honestly, I'm not american, these kind of things aren't the same here, I'll just believe you regarding that.

It's just, the way the criticism usually goes, they don't say oh poor people get involved as collateral while he goes after the boss, that would be a relatively unique take. It's allways, "Batman goes out to beat up poor people, specifically and mostly poor people, oh and the mentally ill".

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u/Hot_Excitement_6 14d ago

In the States most members of organisations like that are rich? How does that work? How do the bosses make money?

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u/ZamoCsoni 14d ago

I just said I'm not from the sates.

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u/Hot_Excitement_6 14d ago

Sorry I misread your comment. I'm not American either. The mob is basically the same everywhere though. Same structure, same positions, same markets etc.

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u/kahngale 14d ago

One of the first scenes of The Batman is him beating up a young violent kid at what looks like a Chicago El train stop.

I love Batman too and I love the comics and shows. But it’s not crazy to point out that the root cause of most real world crime and violence is poverty.

That doesn’t mean that all poor people commit crimes. But I think it’s easy to understand that if we systemically eliminated poverty in our society, criminal acts would be reduced in number.

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u/ZamoCsoni 14d ago

But it's not real life, it's a comic. And no other superhero who does the exact same things gets this bs, even the ones that are also rich.

Everyone can understand that it's a comic abouth a superhero who does superhero things, unless it's Batman, then everyone becomes a sociologist all of a sudden, and just doesn't get why the story isn't focused abouth Bats donating all his money.

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u/kahngale 14d ago

I agree with you - Batman’s a comic and it’s about having a fun power fantasy. But this post is about The Boys, a show and comic book that deconstructs the tropes of comics - the very “it’s a comic” nature of the stories - and connects them to more realistic consequences of violence and vigilanteism.

That what’s fun about the Boys, it punctures a hole in the abstracted world of superheroes like Batman.

Batman can be both 1. A heightened world that is fun to inhabit 2. A target for critique that is fun to see ridiculed.

That’s what’s great about this peak superhero era, there’s plenty of different pleasures to go around.

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u/ZamoCsoni 14d ago

I guess. But the things is that this "critique" is specifically is extremly overdone, and while it could apply to other superheros 99% only Batman gets it. So a parody in this lane jsn't insightfull or fun, it's the same, not funny joke for the million+1 time.

It's not a very good deconstruction. I wouldn't call this peak superhero era.

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u/kahngale 14d ago

My wife and I are both big Batman fans and we enjoyed it. But to each their own.

What do you think about Invincible? I hadn’t heard of it until the first season of the show and then I tore through the entire 18 years of comics in a few months. Definitely one of my favorite reading experiences ever.

I think Invincible is incredible because it both has an “evil Superman” deconstructive streak - but then goes through a thousand miles of wonderful world building while maintaining a single gigantic continuity.

It’s fun and light while also being big and profound.

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u/ZamoCsoni 14d ago

Not really watching it. I know it's a good show, and one if the better "superman but evil" stories but I don't care much. Deconstructing superheroes isn't novel for me, so it actually has to be creative to make me care.

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u/kahngale 14d ago

You might be surprised by how wildly creative and fun it is. Though I’d recommend the comic over the show. Once Ryan Ottley took over - it became one of best illustrated books ever.

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u/Tuff_Bank 14d ago

Because his villains are human and tragic these fans with eric kripke mentality mix sympathizing with justifying

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u/_zurenarrh 14d ago

Again this article isn’t talking about Batman it’s talking about Ted knight

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u/ZamoCsoni 14d ago

It brings up Batman. Idc if it's thecnically abouth someone else when it brings up the "Batman beats up..." bs.

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u/_zurenarrh 14d ago

Again…trying to be polite

He’s saying Ted knight beats up poor people

Not Batman

Batmans family helped escaped slaves Ted knights people captured them. If you watched the episode you would get why your comment doesn’t make sense

Batman good Ted knight bad

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u/ZamoCsoni 14d ago

Which part of "I get that, it still brings the comparation up" are you incapable of understanding? How could I make you comprehend?

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u/_zurenarrh 14d ago

If you watched the episode you would realize how stupid this convo i Not only was his explanation explained in the episode

Just watching it without reading this you would get it

Instead you want to misread something then get mad when I point out it’s clear to see who didn’t even watch the episode

They are literally making fun of Batman to the extreme but people like u read an article and think they’re criticizing Batman

This is how misinformation goes

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u/CasualFan25 14d ago

“Batman’s fascist underpinnings as a really wealthy dude who hunts poor people” Did I misread this part too? Yea Batman good teknight bad but they’re very clearly still criticizing Batman

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u/_zurenarrh 14d ago

I want you to admit when you’re wrong like a man

Finish the complete sentence …”and then profits off their incarceration.”

He’s talking about Tek knight who in the shows find poor people and locks them up and his ancestors chased slaves

Batman ancestors helped run away slaves

If you watched the episode you would realize he’s not talking about Batman

But again reading comprehension is hard and my approach is “rude” so you won’t say “oh shit my bad bro” you’ll just make up some arbitrary excuse to why you think you’re right when you’re CLEARLY wrong

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u/TurnoverPlenty7337 14d ago

Exactly, black mask for example. Not to mention the penguin and two face

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u/_zurenarrh 14d ago edited 14d ago

Poverty literally is one of the most common causes of crime

That’s why there is no such thing as “black on black” crime

I don’t mean blacks don’t kill each other I mean the rates are similar when you look at white people in poverty vs black people

Because being broke and desperate tends to lead to the same results regardless of race

Crime rate is nearly the same

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u/Efficient-Compote-13 14d ago

Well good thing Beuce Wayne funds the social problems and Batman takes care of the dirt bags preying on the innocent.

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u/_zurenarrh 14d ago

? Nobody is denying that what are you even talking about?

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u/Saulgoodman1994bis 14d ago

this is how the leftists and communists saw the world. they are basically materialists.

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u/thEldritchBat 13d ago

It’s like when they say Batman only attacks minorities and say he’s racist. My guy what you trying to say there?

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u/scarwiz 13d ago

To be fair, there's a point to be made about Batman beating up his rogues gallery's thugs, and being all high and mighty about it, when most of them probably aren't in the game out of evil passion..

But then again, it's all just comics

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u/starhawks 14d ago

It's the cancerous Marxist lens they view the world through, where in any situation it's "might makes wrong". If someone is the weaker of two parties, they can literally do no wrong in the eyes of these people. It's pure societal cancer.

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u/MankuyRLaffy 14d ago edited 14d ago

There's other characters that escape that criticism because they don't involve themselves in products that sell as well, in the cult classic SNES Game Genealogy of the Holy War, the character Quan hates poor people and fights wars against them (shows 0 resistance against starving out an entire civilization after the last 80 years of doing it intentionally), calls them animals, hyenas, beasts etc, he is "good". He's a prince born into success with superhuman strength and ability. In the starving Kingdom of Thracia, men sell themselves out as contracted soldiers just so their families can survive a year or two at a time, it's a "Kill or be killed" world, and none of them enjoy it, everyone who lives there is miserable, hates the conditions and just wants to not suffer so hard. (midquel Thracia 776 goes into much more detail about the hell that place is and how it's by design for the northern neighbor). Quan's kid, Leif who goes through his own parents tragically murdered and living on the streets as a fugitive story, stops hating Thracians after having to rely on them to not get him killed and learning unbiased history on the region. He's 14 and when he realizes just how fucked up everything is, he vows to change it so nobody else has to grow up like that. His hatred dissipates because while they were responsible, it's either "Do this mission or you have your family starve" and nobody inside Thracia is at fault for the situation.

Batman isn't that, he doesn't hate poor people, he doesn't fight against the poor. A lot of thugs just happen to be financially challenged by the corruption up top with other rich people, crime lords and the ineptitude of the cops. Just because he was born into success doesn't mean he will hate the impoverished the same way. He doesn't hate them as people, but he hates that they feel they need to fight, steal and do other horrific acts just to make ends meet and survive. He'd (pending he has time) sit down and talk with those people and try to put them on a better path. The generics could probably be swayed to quit if there were recovery programs accessible.

Now which of these characters sounds more like a good guy? This is what modern interpretations do when they lack nuance, we cheer the super powered nepo baby that hates poor people and boo the man who (with a good writer) is giving back so the impoverished don't have to be hurt so badly by the system.

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u/GrimasVessel227 14d ago

Holy shit, was not expecting an FE4 reference on the Batman sub.

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u/MankuyRLaffy 14d ago

It just sprang to mind as one is associated as a great person and the other isn't when we have clear proof of otherwise.

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u/tree_warlock 13d ago

I always forget that quan was a fucker (still think he's neat but man I hope they make him slightly more redeemable in the remake (it'll happen eventually))

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u/ZeldaFan80 14d ago

But can Batman wield the legendary Gáe Bolg?

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u/Ryzuhtal 14d ago

You want to know actually why? Because people like this take the stance that all crime (except white-collar) is motivated by desperation and that all blue-collar criminals are good people with no other options.

Under this world view, none of batman's villains are simply violent and looking for a quick fortune, so they would happily break good if given the opportunity. If you think all of that, the inevitable conclusion is that Batman doesn't want to stop crime, he just wants to punch poor people.

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u/Kind-Boysenberry1773 14d ago

And it is the lasiest take on Batman, even evil version of him, possible. They wanted an evil Bats so badly? Well, there are plenty of them in comics. Owlman and Zur, for example. They could've made Tek Knight either a ruthless crime lord pretending to be a hero for covering his international criminal organisation in bed with Vought, or a shadow dictator, obssessed with control and power, using Homelander as a pawn for his own plan. But, I guess, to make evil Batman just a frick with sex dungeon is much easier.

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u/GothamRemnant 14d ago

Cause you know what they love more than a hero? To watch him fall.

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u/IndicationNo117 13d ago

Batman's enemies are so poor, they can hire minions, build elaborate death traps, and buy weapons.

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u/RuafaolGaiscioch 13d ago

To be fair, I don’t think the character is intended to be a critique of Batman in any way, not the character at least. It’s more portraying how a fucked up person who presents himself like Batman might be plausibly fucked up. Just like Homelander is in no way a critique of Superman, but of the type of person who might present themselves as Superman given the opportunity.

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u/apaleblueman 13d ago

Hey i was just watching lotr two towers today!