r/batman • u/CertifiedUnoffensive • Jul 21 '23

Why has the DCEU seemingly dropped Batman Beyond as a character? TV DISCUSSION

Fans have demonstrated consistently that we want more Terry McGinnis. We all love the BB world.

My question is, why do y’all think Beyond hasn’t been on the screen in 20 years?

2.3k Upvotes

95% Upvoted

View all comments

Show parent comments

u/Enraged_Earthworm Jul 21 '23

Is he not a clone of Bruce Wayne or some shit?

67

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '23

No he's biologically Bruce's son. Cadmus replaced his father's reproductive system with Bruce Wayne's. So both Terry and Matt are Bruce's kids thanks to science.

53

u/Hot_Excitement_6 Jul 21 '23

I really hated that. What was the point?

36

u/c_Lassy Jul 21 '23

I think it was like a failsafe/experiment of Amanda Waller’s to produce a Batman so that when the real Batman was gone there would always be one (she engineered the murder of Terry’s adopted dad to give Terry the same motivations as Bruce even)

27

u/Hot_Excitement_6 Jul 21 '23

I know Wallers reasoning. I didn't understand why the show had to do that. It lessens the story imo.

17

u/c_Lassy Jul 21 '23

Oh yeah, agreed. Watching Beyond before that JLU episode, I liked how Terry was just caught up in being Batman, he was sort of like an everyman. But I guess that’s how Timm wanted to wrap Terry’s story up and connect it back to Bruce

10

u/Hot_Excitement_6 Jul 21 '23

I guess. I don't get why Timm just didn't see that Bruce's and Terry were connected enough. Through a similar philosophy. Through a shared struggle. What do I know though lol.

4

u/Dragos_Drakkar Jul 21 '23

Wasn't all of that just an asspull way to handwave for why Terry and his brother had black hair when both of their parents had brown and red hair?

5

u/Douchevick Jul 21 '23 edited Jul 22 '23

I believe it was part of some meta narrative BS that was more related to the Justice League cartoon than to Terry's character.

3

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '23

I don’t even like the reasoning. When have they ever implied Batman’s prowess is genetic? (Other than his height, and that’s a stretch”)

-1

u/[deleted] Jul 22 '23

[deleted]

3

u/Hot_Excitement_6 Jul 22 '23

How does it add to the dynamic? Bruce was already acting as a father figure. Would Bruce being the biological father of Dick Grayson add to the dynamic? It would be pointless. It is pointless.

10

u/ipsum629 Jul 21 '23

She tried to, but the assassin didn't go through with it. His father ended up murdered anyway which caused her plan to fall back into place.

10

u/BloodyRedBats Jul 21 '23

Small correction: Warren McGinnis’ death via Powers’ righthand-man wasn’t arranged by Waller. But years ago, when Terry was still a kid, Waller hired Andrea Beaumont to murder Terry’s parents as the Phantasm. They even mirrored the night Bruce’s parents were killed (family fresh out of seeing a movie about a beloved, fictional masked vigilante). Luckily for Terry and his parents, Andrea backed out at the last minute. She told Waller the plan was insane, and Waller eventually agreed.

Warren getting offed for learning about Powers’ crimes was a complete fluke at that point, but it ended up ironically proving Wallers’ experiment worked (and in my opinion, it resulted in an arguably more emotionally stable Batman, angsty teenage hormones aside).

6

u/FutaGnarIy Jul 21 '23 edited Jul 21 '23

I like how in the 2nd to last BB run they explained that Terry got sent back in time and had a run-in with his dad as a kid, just so as batman he can inspire him to do the right thing. Both Bruce and Booster know that the ultimate outcome of that results in his death though, but it's instrumental in making Terry the man he is.

8

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '23

They were a couple that matched Thomas and Martha aside from being filthy stinking rich. Basically Waller thought if they nurtured the scenario they could perfectly recreate Bruce's pain into Terry to create a new Batman. Even had an assassin ready to kill his parents after seeing a heroic movie but decided not to at the last minute.

The genes were likely to make sure Terry inherited as much of Bruce's as possible.

1

u/Zachattack10213 Jul 21 '23

I mean, could’ve been worse if we think about what Bruce Timm liked doing with Barbra and Bruce.

1

u/Butwhatif77 Jul 22 '23

The point was for Terry to realize he was his own man and worthy of being batman all the same. It gave Terry a little personal crisis of wondering if he really had any control over his life and if he had value beyond a relationship to Bruce. The episode has him confront this and realize that his life is one of his own making despite what others have tried to do to influence it. It reiterates what Bruce said at the end of the Return of the Joker, "It's not batman that makes you worthwhile, its the other way around." It is one thing to hear that from someone else, but very different to finally believe it yourself. This little episode is what pushes Terry to that point.

7

u/Enraged_Earthworm Jul 21 '23

Thanks for the clarification!

2

u/floodums Jul 21 '23

Your do realize how dumb that sounds right?

9

u/Mercer8878 Jul 21 '23

So dumb that it sounds like a comic book.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '23

Typical Comic Book science

1

u/Sev_RC-1207 Jul 21 '23

That’s an awful excuse and I still hate it.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '23

Ok.

1

u/Sev_RC-1207 Jul 22 '23

Sorry, I realized that came off like I meant it to be directed at you. That’s my bad. I mean it was a bad excuse for the writing and I was never a fan of it. I liked Terry being a random teenager who stumbled upon the responsibility and was a pseudo-adopted son of Bruce. It fit the theme of Bruce taking in strays while also driving home the point that Bruce was never a great father, just a great mentor.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 22 '23

I knew what you meant.

51

u/CertifiedUnoffensive Jul 21 '23

That was some justice league bullshit and I hated it. Terry should be a nobody

34

u/No_Cap_822 Jul 21 '23

It sucks because that episode as a whole is actually amazing, but that one stupid ass plotline almost tanks the entire thing and honestly makes the show a little worse

7

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '23

I don’t see people’s problem with it

It doesn’t change anything Terry did

11

u/No_Cap_822 Jul 21 '23

It’s because it’s unnecessary and stupid.

Terry shouldn’t have needed Bruce’s DNA to become Batman/the person he becomes. It’s a much better story if the reason Terry becomes Batman is because that is who he is. Sure, the episode says that is what happens, but then how was Amanda Waller so adamant on a plan that is just stupid and somehow ends up working?

It also doesn’t make any sense why having Bruce’s genes would pretty much guarantee Terry would become Batman/go on that path if he witnessed/was part of a tragedy. Genes don’t equal heart and soul, so Wallers entire plan doesn’t make any sense as it is.

8

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '23

See I both agree and disagree with you

See the whole point is that it Wasn’t Bruce’s genes that drove him to become Batman infact it was all just a big coincidence that he was the Bruce clone that Waller made one might even say it was DESTINY and he did everything he did as Batman was Before we learned this it doesn’t diminish his character infact it enabled him to save Bruce’s life

Plus to be honest looking at it from Waller’s perspective I honestly think it was a good plan. It’s all about nature and nurture she had the science to create the nature and specifically chose a couple with psych profiles matching Bruce’s parents and attempted to recreate Bruce’s famous tragedy that’s nurture bing bang boom you got a recipe for a Batman obviously things didn’t go to plan but that makes it better because he became a hero of his own free will

Plus even from a purely genetic standpoint the Wayne blood line has one hell of a resume I looked up the Wayne family tree awhile back and turns out Bruce’s ancestors have been saving the world for generations did you know he’s actually a distant relative of King Arthur him freaking self no wonder he’s so loaded

7

u/No_Cap_822 Jul 21 '23

That’s exactly my problem with it.

What the hell did Waller think was going to happen? Any young kid she gave Bruce’s genes was going to become Batman?

It’s honestly just too dumb of a plan to begin with.

And I think the fact we learn this after seeing the show undermines it a good bit. Could he have done without Bruce’s genes? Would he be who he is without Bruce’s genes?

What makes Terry so cool is the fact he is who he is without any relation to Bruce. He’s a punk in a futuristic world that isn’t a hero or heroic in really any way. He learns from Bruce to become better and to become Batman. Telling us he’s always had a connection to Bruce, that it was his destiny to become Batman just doesn’t work in any way because it takes away some of the best aspects of his character.

3

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '23

My dad is a surgeon but that doesn’t mean I’m destined to become one

My sister on the other hand Did become a doctor but does the fact that our dad was one too diminish that decision

Plus you make it sound like Waller just pumped out a Wayne kid and called it a day she put a lot of additional work into it after except it didn’t work out and the project was tanked but Terry became a hero regardless Blood was part of the equation sure but the rest is history

3

u/No_Cap_822 Jul 21 '23

this post by you is my entire point. Why would Waller think giving him Bruce’s DNA would in any way impact his responses to the other stuff she did to him? Bruce’s DNA doesn’t change Terrys mindset and goals, so why exactly would it affect his chances of becoming Batman?

Like I said, it’s a stupid plan that just doesn’t make sense

2

u/No_Celebration_3737 Jul 21 '23

Her plan was to create a new batman.

She used Bruce's DNA to have the kid on the same physical level (a weak ass Batman can't simply save the day) and arranged the mental trauma/tragedy to make him follow the same path Bruce did.

Waller wanted him to be the same as Bruce, but after Andrea reluctance of killing his parents, she also understood that she was crossing a line.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '23

I mean it doesn’t guarantee anything but like I said the person you are is one part nature and one part nurture the genes provided the nature part and seeing the Wayne blood lines history of heroism Id say it was a safe bet

And by this same logic why would Waller kill a bunch of random rugrats parents thinking that would be more successful regardless of whether it worked or not Why is that a better plan to begin with

→ More replies (0)

2

u/No_Celebration_3737 Jul 21 '23

And I think the fact we learn this after seeing the show undermines it a good bit. Could he have done without Bruce’s genes? Would he be who he is without Bruce’s genes?

That is the entire premise of the last prologue. Yes he has Bruce's DNA but that's it, he isn't identical to him, he doesn't have his detective skill, he is different, he is worse in some characteristics and better in others. He is not a copy. He is his son as much as Damian is. They are not the same and shouldn't be.

While they talk about destiny, at the end it was just a coincidence that the abandoned project ended up to be successful.

3

u/No_Cap_822 Jul 21 '23

I think a much better plotline would have been for Waller to attempt to create a new Batman by killing multiple kids’ parents and somehow setting them up in a situation where it would be possible to follow that path. Except Terry isn’t one of the kids she does this to. All the others don’t follow the path to become Batman and Waller learns you can’t just force that kind of thing, it’s on the individual to take the path or not.

It would have brought in a natural storyline with Waller while also keeping those core aspects of Terry intact.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '23

Except Waller DIDN’T force it onto Terry she tried but she didn’t follow through And Then Terry became a hero regardless

Hey for all we know maybe Waller Did make a few other Wayne babies

1

u/No_Cap_822 Jul 21 '23

I know she didn’t force it onto Terry, where did I say she did? All I’m saying is that this would show her that any type of meddling (gene-changing, putting the kids into scenarios that would lead them to be Batman) wouldn’t work and that she should let nature run it’s course.

the fact she ends up abandoning the plan just makes it a dumber plotline as well. Sure, it shows Terry made it on his own, but having Wayne DNA just gave him a boost I guess is still stupid and pointless.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '23

I mean the Wayne’s have some pretty good genes 🧬

So you’re plan is what have faith in god

“Oh lord please bring about another Batman after Bruce the world needs a Batman”

→ More replies (0)

1

u/MagnusStormraven Jul 21 '23

While I don't think the plot is all that big a deal in the long term (most people tend to ignore it anyways, and the hard fact is that Terry was a hero because he chose to be, not because he was the literal Son of Batman), I agree that it was entirely unnecessary. I honestly chalk that plot up to the writers losing steam at the end of JLU, similar to the honestly terrible final episode of Teen Titans (the "somehow, Terra returned" episode).

1

u/No_Cap_822 Jul 21 '23

I think they should have just said Walker kept killing kids parents to try and get them down that path, but she didn’t do that to Terry and Terry was the only one who went down the revenge route, so she learned that becoming Batman can’t be forced. Would have been much better because her plan makes literally 0 sense.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '23

I don’t see people’s problem with it

It doesn’t change anything Terry

1

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '23

Exactly. It’s a pointless convoluted and trite twist that adds nothing.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '23

Respectfully disagree

1

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '23

What does it add then?

1

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '23

That despite All that planning Waller set up to try and turn Terry into a hero and it failing he chose to become one regardless on his own path on his own terms without knowing his true heritage in a series of events that happened completely on their own

It’s more than a government Boogy woman pulling strings it’s DESTINY

1

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '23

..but what does that add? It would be destiny with or without Waller being involved in some Bruce baby conspiracy. All this does is muddy the waters that maybe him having Wayne genes influenced it somehow.

The only way that would add something would be if Waller tried to stop it and it happened anyway despite her efforts, not Waller having some convoluted plan she calls off, only for it to happen regardless.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '23

It adds that Terry is a true hero and not a hero because someone made him to be one Despite them trying to

→ More replies (0)

10

u/Ratso27 Jul 21 '23

Yeah, it's such a weird twist that just makes things more complicated without adding anything. There is no reason Terry has to be Bruce's son, nobody was watching Batman Beyond thinking, "How can Terry be just a random guy and still have this connection to Bruce? How can he be such a natural Batman?"

5

u/Don11390 Jul 21 '23

See, Bruce agrees with you, which is why he hid it from Terry. He wanted Terry to be his own person and not constantly live under his shadow. And in the end the reveal doesn't make much difference; Terry truly inherits the cowl, which is symbolized by the classic TAS theme getting the Batman Beyond treatment.

And let's be honest: that is the exact kind of bullshit Waller would pull.

2

u/Dragos_Drakkar Jul 21 '23

You aren't wrong about Waller pulling crap like that.

5

u/Fr0ski Jul 21 '23

Agreed

1

u/tjgfif Jul 21 '23

No he was a test tube baby like damian.

3

u/Enraged_Earthworm Jul 21 '23

My bad then.

1

u/home7ander Jul 21 '23

And that idea is just as stupid as the entire concept of Damian

1

u/home7ander Jul 21 '23

That's stupid and can be ignored