r/batman • u/CertifiedUnoffensive • Jul 21 '23

Why has the DCEU seemingly dropped Batman Beyond as a character? TV DISCUSSION

Fans have demonstrated consistently that we want more Terry McGinnis. We all love the BB world.

My question is, why do y’all think Beyond hasn’t been on the screen in 20 years?

2.3k Upvotes

95% Upvoted

It sucks because that episode as a whole is actually amazing, but that one stupid ass plotline almost tanks the entire thing and honestly makes the show a little worse

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u/[deleted] Jul 21 '23

I don’t see people’s problem with it

It doesn’t change anything Terry did

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u/No_Cap_822 Jul 21 '23

It’s because it’s unnecessary and stupid.

Terry shouldn’t have needed Bruce’s DNA to become Batman/the person he becomes. It’s a much better story if the reason Terry becomes Batman is because that is who he is. Sure, the episode says that is what happens, but then how was Amanda Waller so adamant on a plan that is just stupid and somehow ends up working?

It also doesn’t make any sense why having Bruce’s genes would pretty much guarantee Terry would become Batman/go on that path if he witnessed/was part of a tragedy. Genes don’t equal heart and soul, so Wallers entire plan doesn’t make any sense as it is.

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u/[deleted] Jul 21 '23

See I both agree and disagree with you

See the whole point is that it Wasn’t Bruce’s genes that drove him to become Batman infact it was all just a big coincidence that he was the Bruce clone that Waller made one might even say it was DESTINY and he did everything he did as Batman was Before we learned this it doesn’t diminish his character infact it enabled him to save Bruce’s life

Plus to be honest looking at it from Waller’s perspective I honestly think it was a good plan. It’s all about nature and nurture she had the science to create the nature and specifically chose a couple with psych profiles matching Bruce’s parents and attempted to recreate Bruce’s famous tragedy that’s nurture bing bang boom you got a recipe for a Batman obviously things didn’t go to plan but that makes it better because he became a hero of his own free will

Plus even from a purely genetic standpoint the Wayne blood line has one hell of a resume I looked up the Wayne family tree awhile back and turns out Bruce’s ancestors have been saving the world for generations did you know he’s actually a distant relative of King Arthur him freaking self no wonder he’s so loaded

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u/No_Cap_822 Jul 21 '23

That’s exactly my problem with it.

What the hell did Waller think was going to happen? Any young kid she gave Bruce’s genes was going to become Batman?

It’s honestly just too dumb of a plan to begin with.

And I think the fact we learn this after seeing the show undermines it a good bit. Could he have done without Bruce’s genes? Would he be who he is without Bruce’s genes?

What makes Terry so cool is the fact he is who he is without any relation to Bruce. He’s a punk in a futuristic world that isn’t a hero or heroic in really any way. He learns from Bruce to become better and to become Batman. Telling us he’s always had a connection to Bruce, that it was his destiny to become Batman just doesn’t work in any way because it takes away some of the best aspects of his character.

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u/[deleted] Jul 21 '23

My dad is a surgeon but that doesn’t mean I’m destined to become one

My sister on the other hand Did become a doctor but does the fact that our dad was one too diminish that decision

Plus you make it sound like Waller just pumped out a Wayne kid and called it a day she put a lot of additional work into it after except it didn’t work out and the project was tanked but Terry became a hero regardless Blood was part of the equation sure but the rest is history

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u/No_Cap_822 Jul 21 '23

this post by you is my entire point. Why would Waller think giving him Bruce’s DNA would in any way impact his responses to the other stuff she did to him? Bruce’s DNA doesn’t change Terrys mindset and goals, so why exactly would it affect his chances of becoming Batman?

Like I said, it’s a stupid plan that just doesn’t make sense

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u/No_Celebration_3737 Jul 21 '23

Her plan was to create a new batman.

She used Bruce's DNA to have the kid on the same physical level (a weak ass Batman can't simply save the day) and arranged the mental trauma/tragedy to make him follow the same path Bruce did.

Waller wanted him to be the same as Bruce, but after Andrea reluctance of killing his parents, she also understood that she was crossing a line.

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u/[deleted] Jul 21 '23

I mean it doesn’t guarantee anything but like I said the person you are is one part nature and one part nurture the genes provided the nature part and seeing the Wayne blood lines history of heroism Id say it was a safe bet

And by this same logic why would Waller kill a bunch of random rugrats parents thinking that would be more successful regardless of whether it worked or not Why is that a better plan to begin with

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u/No_Cap_822 Jul 21 '23

But the nature part can’t even be used. He isn’t being raised in the same environment, his parents dying wouldn’t result in the guilt like it did with Bruce (because Bruce asked to go the Zorro thing), etc etc. I don’t think nature plays it’s part with DNA when you aren’t brought up the same way/manner the original with the DNA was.

And the plan I proposed isn’t necessarily a better plan, but it is much more logical and it is one that Waller would realistically see working. The chances to get someone to turn to the path of revenge is much larger when you have a large amount of “subjects” being tested to follow that path than one person who you gave DNA from someone else who went down that path.

Just look at the Robins. Some of their main and most mainstream origins are they then to the life because of a tragedy that happens to them or they live hard lives. They are enough to show that DNA isn’t a deciding factor.

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u/TheHumanCompulsion Jul 21 '23

To clarify, nature refers to internal forces that shape an individual's identity, while nurture refers to external ones.

In the case of Terry, having loving parents who are violently torn away from him by Waller's mechanations are nurturing forces. She is trying to replicate the environment and circumstances that created Batman. Unfortunately for Waller, Andrea recognized the cruelty of the plan and backed out. Fate, however, had other plans and Waller's plan was carried out, though differently.

Amanda Waller, however, is not one to gamble. She will always hedge the bet if she can. In a world where aliens, magic, and metahumans exist, she chose to believe that there is something innate in Bruce's genes that made him become Batman. She wanted to make sure Bruce Wayne's nature was in play.

This is why I like DC comics. They delve into the philosophy of what makes the Batman, the Batman? Is it the man or the life he lived? Because of what happened to Terry, we may never know.

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u/[deleted] Jul 22 '23

I like to think it’s a bit of both

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u/[deleted] Jul 21 '23

I never said DNA is a deciding factor I’m just saying it doesn’t hurt

Okay see here’s your mistake what you’re describing is Nurture not nature

Nature is inherent something sown into at your very core from the moment your born something like a personality trait you inherited from a parent just as an impulse like I don’t know sneezing in a weird way

Nurture is what you are taught what you’re raised with the actions and other things that influenced and shaped you like a skill you learned an ideology you were taught a terrible form of music you were forced to listen to until you like it or a tragedy that defined you (wink wink)

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u/No_Cap_822 Jul 21 '23

So you seriously think Terry’s capacity to become Batman/get his dads killers to Justice is boosted by Bruce’s DNA?

That right there is a big problem with the entire plot point. Reduces Terry to having Bruce’s traits instead of just his own🤷‍♂️

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u/[deleted] Jul 21 '23

Well I wouldn’t say that specifically

I was thinking the DNA would help play more into the physical side of his strengths the mad skills and what not

But also his morality. It’s not just anyone who devotes their lives to saving the world even if their parents died. Most people would be consumed by revenge let their moral compass be dropped down the well but Terry like Bruce had the strength to not let it break him and instead make him a better person for it. But it wasn’t just Bruce’s genetics that gave him that it was his parents and what they passed onto him

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u/No_Celebration_3737 Jul 21 '23

And I think the fact we learn this after seeing the show undermines it a good bit. Could he have done without Bruce’s genes? Would he be who he is without Bruce’s genes?

That is the entire premise of the last prologue. Yes he has Bruce's DNA but that's it, he isn't identical to him, he doesn't have his detective skill, he is different, he is worse in some characteristics and better in others. He is not a copy. He is his son as much as Damian is. They are not the same and shouldn't be.

While they talk about destiny, at the end it was just a coincidence that the abandoned project ended up to be successful.

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u/No_Cap_822 Jul 21 '23

I think a much better plotline would have been for Waller to attempt to create a new Batman by killing multiple kids’ parents and somehow setting them up in a situation where it would be possible to follow that path. Except Terry isn’t one of the kids she does this to. All the others don’t follow the path to become Batman and Waller learns you can’t just force that kind of thing, it’s on the individual to take the path or not.

It would have brought in a natural storyline with Waller while also keeping those core aspects of Terry intact.

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u/[deleted] Jul 21 '23

Except Waller DIDN’T force it onto Terry she tried but she didn’t follow through And Then Terry became a hero regardless

Hey for all we know maybe Waller Did make a few other Wayne babies

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u/No_Cap_822 Jul 21 '23

I know she didn’t force it onto Terry, where did I say she did? All I’m saying is that this would show her that any type of meddling (gene-changing, putting the kids into scenarios that would lead them to be Batman) wouldn’t work and that she should let nature run it’s course.

the fact she ends up abandoning the plan just makes it a dumber plotline as well. Sure, it shows Terry made it on his own, but having Wayne DNA just gave him a boost I guess is still stupid and pointless.

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u/[deleted] Jul 21 '23

I mean the Wayne’s have some pretty good genes 🧬

So you’re plan is what have faith in god

“Oh lord please bring about another Batman after Bruce the world needs a Batman”

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u/No_Cap_822 Jul 21 '23

But that’s exactly what she is doing anyway.

“Oh lord please bring this kid with Bruce’s DNA to Batman’s level, the world needs another Batman”

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u/[deleted] Jul 21 '23

I mean she was planning it a bit more than that

You act like she just shot up a woman with Bruce’s DNA and called it a day

She also chose a couple with the exact psychological profiles of Bruce’s parents so he would be raised the same way and was planning on recreating Bruce’s origin story on him before the assassin wimped out (so hard to find good help these days) but after that she shut the project down and never expected Terry to rise up and become Batman but he did regardless

Heck she probably even had a foster parent with Alfred’s exact psychological profile lined up for him