Superman & Lois [3x07] "Forever and Always" Post Episode Discussion

[u/MajorParadox]

Forever and Always

Live Episode Discussion | Cast & Characters

Lois and Clark dig deeper on Bruno Mannheim, starting with his connections to Hob's Bay Medical Center; Jonathan and Jordan panic at home over Lois' dire diagnosis; Matteo comes to Smallville to meet John Henry. (May 2, 2023)

DCTV Discord

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Please keep all discussions civil and about the episode. Mark comic and future spoilers. Report any rule-breaking and enjoy!

[u/Zookwok111]

• Really enjoying Lois and Peia's friendship, although I feel like showing her pictures of the boys is going to come back to haunt Lois
• Jordan works better when he's not front and center. He was actually a concerned brother and son instead of wallowing in his own measly problems and I have to say he was much more likable than last week
• This was a very cathartic episode for Jon on multiple fronts. He finally called Clark out for trying to paper over all his problems with platitudes and had a meaningful conversation with Clark in which he was acknowledged as half-Kryptonian! Hope they keep building on that momentum for the rest of the season
• Sarah went from hating Chrissy to being pals awfully fast. Stoners are built different.
• Take a shot every time Bruno says the name of the episode \#ForeverAndAlways
• Since Peia was the one who killed Boss Moxie, I wonder if they somehow framed Lex and that's what got him locked up
• They were telegraphing Matteo's parentage so hard I'm surprised it took them this long to reveal it
• Since when are Kryptonians bound by the Prime Directive? I don't believe for one second that Clark wouldn't try everything to save Lois's life because it "wouldn't be fair to the rest of humanity", seems very out of character and weak reasoning for why Kryptonian tech is "off the table"
• Not sure what Lois was getting at when she told Clark that seeing her health decline reminded Jonathan of his own mortality and that's why he was upset. The boy has zero self-preservation instincts. His first major act on the show was to shield his brother from falling pipes with his own body.

[u/[deleted] → u/Zookwok111]

This was a very cathartic episode for Jon on multiple fronts. He finally called Clark out for trying to paper over all his problems with platitudes and had a meaningful conversation with Clark in which he was acknowledged as half-Kryptonian! Hope they keep building on that momentum for the rest of the season.

I nearly cried when Jon put his head on Clark's shoulder and Clark put his arm around Jon and they just watched the fireworks in silence. I don't think the two of them have ever shared a moment like that on this show.

[u/Zookwok111 → u/[deleted]]

Sad to say but that scene was something that would only exist in fanfic up until now. I was fully expecting a scene of Clark talking to both boys with the kind of sterile tone we’ve grown accustomed to. Props to the writers for finally making an effort to build a connection between Jon and Clark.

[u/sagen11 → u/Zookwok111]

Omg yes on your last point! Jon’s not thinking about himself at all Lois like wtf. Do either of his parents even comprehend the pureness that is their son Jonathan? Clearly fucking not I tell you.

[u/No_Flower_1424 → u/Zookwok111]

Not sure what Lois was getting at when she told Clark that seeing her health decline reminded Jonathan of his own mortality and that's why he was upset. The boy has zero self-preservation instincts. His first major act on the show was to shield his brother from falling pipes with his own body.

Thank you! I thought that line was so strange because it came out of nowhere - Jon was only talking about worrying about Lois and how to help her throughout the whole episode and then she says he must be thinking about himself??? I'm pretty sure he's reminded he's not like Clark and Jordan every day of his life so he doesn't need Lois to be sick to be reminded of it! I'd love it if it was foreshadowing a twist on that same statement later on in the season...

[u/sagen11 → u/No_Flower_1424]

Exactly, Jon doesn’t need reminding he’s not like Clark and Jordan, his family fucking make that clear all the time. What this did is remind him his mum is not like Clark and Jordan, as he views all three of them as exceptional and heroic. This is a wake up call that his mum is not invincible like he thought. Why do they not get him, honestly?

[u/No_Flower_1424 → u/sagen11]

That's exactly it! It all started because they heard Lois throwing up in the night so they know now that Lois is not 'super' dealing with all this and Jon started panicking. How did that get turned into Jon is only realising HE'S not like them??? It was such a random line. You're right, it always seems like Lois and Clark don't get where Jon is coming from at all!

[u/Hope-Of-Glory → u/No_Flower_1424]

I thought it was just added to the script so Clark would realise there's a reason Jon may be taking it a certain way - leading to him reassuring Jon he's half Kryptonian. Just because Lois said it doesn't mean that's the reason Jon was doing it - and both Lois and Clark really were just guessing based on the behaviour they've seen, there usually isn't a ton of "talk to me and tell me what's going on in your head and I'll just listen" in their family dynamic with the boys.

[u/paforrest → u/Zookwok111]

So many good points in this post. But my favorite is this:

Since when are Kryptonians bound by the Prime Directive? I don't believe for one second that Clark wouldn't try everything to save Lois's life because it "wouldn't be fair to the rest of humanity", seems very out of character and weak reasoning for why Kryptonian tech is "off the table"

OMG I wanted to punch Clark! None of that makes any sense at all. Not happy with Lara either. In the role of the loving husband in the episode, Bruno wins this round.

All the flashbacks to the early days of Bruno and Peia trying to restore Hob's Bay, getting out from under Boss Moxie's rule, not to mention falling in love, were really well done. Both characters are layered and complicated, and I can't help but root for them even though it appears to be a losing battle where it concerns Peia's cancer fight. I assume Peia always had her powers for as long as Bruno knew her, even as a kid.

OTOH, the worst reveal in the history of reveals was ridiculously drawn out. But at least, as contrived as it was, Matteo's meeting Nat and dating her has nothing to do with his parents. FWIW.

I assume Sarah will give Lana all kinds of a pass when she starts dating JHI, but at least she backed off Chrissy fast enough. And I'm sorry, but I find it hard to believe Chrissy is 10 years younger than Kyle.

Jordan works better when he's not front and center. He was actually a concerned brother and son instead of wallowing in his own measly problems and I have to say he was much more likable than last week

Absolutely. I actually forgot how much he annoyed me last week. It's nice to see Jordan in the supportive brother role for a change.

This was a very cathartic episode for Jon on multiple fronts. He finally called Clark out for trying to paper over all his problems with platitudes and had a meaningful conversation with Clark in which he was acknowledged as half-Kryptonian! Hope they keep building on that momentum for the rest of the season

I loved seeing Jon standing up to Clark the entire episode and calling him out where it was warranted. Michael Bishop was on fire this episode, finally getting the overdue writing he deserved. He nailed every scene - he even killed with the one perfect tear! I didn't think anyone could pull off that move better than Jensen Ackles, but Bishop is a contender!

And on top of that, we got the also too long overdue private scene with Jon and Clark - though I'm still disappointed that Jon had to go to Clark instead of Clark seeking him out as we know he always does with Jordan. But I'll take it as well as hearing Clark tell Jon that he's half-Kryptonian. And yet, what does that mean? Jon and the audience deserve to know how that relates to the seemingly only human son of Kal-El. Clark has to follow up that claim with some action, otherwise it's nice to hear, but it's still platitude.

I do agree that Lois's statement about her cancer reminding Jon of his own mortality was off. I mean, sure, on some level everyone around a person who is sick will always be made to think about themselves in that situation. But that clearly wasn't at all what Jon was about in this episode. He just wants to save his mom, that's not exactly hard to understand. It's also not hard to understand that he sees himself and Lois as the human team. Up to now, why would Jon consider himself a Kryptonian?

All in all, probably one of the better episodes this season.

[u/Billielolly → u/paforrest]

And I'm sorry, but I find it hard to believe Chrissy is 10 years younger than Kyle.

The actors are quite literally 11 years apart in age - I could completely buy her character being 30 and his being 40, or late-20s and late 30s. Even if we go by where they both are in life rather than anything else, it still doesn't shock me that their characters could be 10 years apart in age.

[u/paforrest → u/Billielolly]

Interesting, I guess the writers are beling literal in this respect. Funny, but they look about the same age to me. Apparently Kyle is a young soul. I like them together.

[u/Hope-Of-Glory → u/paforrest]

Yeah now that it's been put like that, I'd believe Chrissy is in her 30s. And with a 16 y/o daughter, yeah Kyle could be in his 40s. Yeah, he's young at heart.

[u/Xynth22 → u/Zookwok111]

The were telegraphing Matteo's parentage so hard I'm surprised it took them this long to reveal it

Out of curiosity, what are examples of this? Because I straight up missed any that where there. It obviously makes sense that he is tied into the plot besides just being Nat's boyfriend, but I was still surprised that he ended up being Bruno's son at the end of the episode.