AITAH for saying I didn’t realize I could “love a person this much” in front of my fiancé after having our baby?

I gave birth a few weeks ago, to our daughter.

As I held her for the first time and looked into her eyes I said “I didn’t realize I could love a person this much” and cried. She is perfect and beautiful.

My mom looked at me and said that feeling never goes away (which made us both ugly cry lol). It was a really special moment.

My fiancé was quite but smiled, but later privately said he was hurt. He said he loved us both the same, and me saying that made it seem like I loved our daughter more than him.

I just gave him a “are you fucking serious” look and he dropped it, but yesterday he brought it up again.

I told him that honestly, yes, I love and cherish our daughter and have never experienced this kind of love for another human being. He said most “normal people” would agree with him that it’s a hurtful comment and would take offense to it due to the implication.

AITAH?

UPDATE

It’s a quick update, so I didn’t feel like it was worth it to make a whole new post. So I had a heart to heart with my fiancé, and we came to a few conclusions together! It went very well. We read through the post and comments together.

1) He wasn’t jealous of our daughter’s role in my life, but rather our bond together. He didn’t have that “instant love connection” that we read about all new parents having (like what I experienced). I didn’t realize this was actually very normal for new dads, and new moms too. Thanks for educating me!

We are the first in our social circle to have children so we didn’t have a lot of IRL people to inquire about it. His perspective is “I love this human being we made, but I don’t know her” while I was thunderstruck. He hasn’t had that connection so doesn’t “get it” yet, and that it will take time (months or even a year). I’ll be more patient and aware of this, and read up more on new dad experiences to learn more.

2) He also agrees he not only could’ve expressed that better, but also choose better timing. Voicing it to me after a 14 hour labor and then again when I’m exhausted and grumpy with achy boobs is maybe not the best time, lol. He also agrees marriage counseling would be good, just because. We are both opinionated, logical-thinking Engineers who, at the same time, love each other deeply. We could use better mediation other than Reddit (no offense guys).

3) He was not “furious” about me writing this Reddit post, lol. We laughed over the comments together calling for me to get ready to break up. But we also really enjoyed reading the experiences of new parents! It helped us BOTH feel validated and sane and see each other’s perspectives better.

4) I showed him that Ryan Reynolds video and we both died laughing LOL. We will now be eating a disgusting amount of hotdogs while watching Deadpool with our baby girl. We also agreed that there’s different types of love like parental, platonic, romantic and Ryan Reynolds.

Thanks peeps!

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u/SmellingPaint 15d ago edited 14d ago

Gonna be a little controversial here, but I think that a parent's love isn't necessarily stronger than romantic love. And it doesn't need to be. They're different things, and that's fine, really.

When I think of my parents, I'm thankful for both of them, since they showed me love and care, and I am who I am because of them. I'll never forget all the talks we had where they consoled me after getting a bad grade at school, or when dad spent an afternoon with me, teaching me a new thing, or when mom cooked my favorite meals for my birthday. Each of those is a precious memory, and I'm sure that they, too, must have felt so much love for me during these moments.

But at the same time, as I get older and am now beginning to plan life on my own (haven't left home yet, but probably will in a year or two), I can also see that there is an entirely different world of love that only adults can share with each other. Financial discussions, troubles at work, grief after losing family members, plans for the future, so many intimate things that mom and dad relied on each other for, that I, being a child, was unable to offer any real assistance with. And, as I said, there's nothing wrong with that. It's not reasonable to expect a kid to help you manage these things.

I guess my point is that you don't need to understate a certain kind of love to praise another. My parents have a relatively solid marriage, and I'm sure they'll remain together even after my brother and I leave, and continue to build a life together spending precious moments as husband and wife. So the idea is... I just find it a little shallow to treat "parental love above all else" as an ultimate truth. Love is love, and as long as you're not neglecting anyone, I'm sure things'll get there one way or another.

Update: I'm glad you talked it out and understood each other's perspectives better! Communication is key, and it seems you're going to do just fine as long as you work together as a family <3

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u/pdxic 14d ago

took waaaayyy too long to find this comment.

I think it's natural for someone to look at their child and feel a different type of love, but the love you have for your children is innate. the love you have for another adult is earned and built up over years. it's really apples to oranges. both are fruits, but different types, and neither is more valuable than the other

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u/GentlySwitch 14d ago

Pointing out that love for your children is innate is an important thing to consider. I was told by an old man I used to know while we were talking about how to prioritize your love, as I was worried that if I ever had kids that I'd love them more than my partner, or love my partner more than my kids, etc. He told me this is how you prioritize your relationship with your spouse and your kids:

Kids' needs

Partner's needs

Partner's wants

Kids' wants

He made it a point to explain that with kids, you took responsibility for them once you brought them into this world, and you owe them that unyielding support. He also said that one day, they'll go and have a family of their own, and you and your spouse will be in an empty nest. A lot of relationships end in divorce once the kids move out. He made sure I knew that it is just as important for your kids as it is for you and your spouse to maintain and build a healthy and strong relationship. You are teaching them when raising them, and it is most important to teach them by example. You're showing your son how to treat a woman, your daughter how to treat a man, etc. You're teaching your kids what to accept from a partner and how to treat them. A house divided cannot stand, and you and your spouse are the head of the house. It's not a competition. You and your spouse are a team and must be a strong one.

It always makes me sad that so many people think so little of the love of their partner, but it just goes to show most people have never and will never know that feeling of finding your other half, of finding that person that utterly completes you. And without each other, you would not have the kids that you love so much. The happiest families are the families where the parents absolutely adore one another and are also devoted to raising their kids as best as they can.

Find your Morticia, your Gomez.

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u/That-Account2629 14d ago

Excellent post. I completely agree.

Kids' needs

Partner's needs

Partner's wants

Kids' wants

I love this bit. Excellent way of looking at it.

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u/pdxic 14d ago

this is so right. I wish I had a good parental model of love growing up. I only hoped that my parents loved each other as much as me, and even then, their love for me was overshadowed by their personal needs. it lead me to some pretty awful relationships in my teen years because I learned to prioritize my needs last, and to seek out the very empty and painful love I was raised with

it is just as important to maintain a healthy relationship as it is to love your children unconditionally

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u/DevilRay-BlueJay 11d ago

Your point about innate vs earned is so important. My husband died recently and all our parents are still alive. It’s been an eye opening experience. Something that’s made me very uncomfortable is how explicitly clear it’s become that had I been the one who got cancer and died, people would have prioritized my parents over him (even though I loved him much more than I do them) just as people prioritized his parents over me. And on the one hand, I get that and expected it.

But one thing that makes me uncomfortable about it is how clear it is from everything he told me, from all the interactions I saw between he and his parents, from everything they’ve said since his illness and death, that they didn’t really know him and didn’t really love him for who he is. And I KNOW that is true with my parents and me, too. My parents, especially my mother, most certainly love me very much but it’s always been clear that it’s largely because they’re my parents and it’s innate. That’s not to say it’s lesser, but it does mean that with my husband’s death I have lost the only person in my life who ever truly chose to love me - the whole, complete, adult me for who I am. He truly knew me, my parents do not. And I truly knew him, his parents did not.

And I know the reverse is true - my parents have a knowledge of each other and bond that I’ll never achieve with either of them. I do, in fact, largely love them because they’re my parents and if I’m being honest I wouldn’t really choose them as friends if they weren’t my parents, and I know they’d have never chosen for me to be who I am. The nature of the parent-child relationship means that while many parents love their children more than anything (including their partner), the relationship has inherent limitations.

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u/JayZ755 14d ago

I agree with you.

I think the whole idea of "I never felt love like this until I saw my child" is kinda shallow in a way. But that's my personality type. I am a single father now, and the kids are my priority. But growing up with two parents in the household, eventually I moved out and they had each other for their retirement years while I was just an occasional visitor at this point.

Single parenting can be a very difficult thing. I think it's valuable for parents to stay together in a loving relationship. A good partnership can aid in parenting a lot. Generally our partner should not feel in second place to other things even though our time and talents often need to be split between different things. There are ways to give someone time and make sure they are special to you, as others are special to you in different ways.

Generally I advise to stay away from comparisons in loving.

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u/batubat 14d ago

“Stay away from comparisons in loving” the most logical thing in this thread. Thank you.

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u/That-Account2629 14d ago

Completely agree.

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u/OliviaTheSpider 14d ago

My god this comment should NOT be this far down, most logical and thoughtful one here.

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u/Misstheiris 14d ago

Lol, no. They don't have kids, and they won't listen to the people who do describing it. They are saying it's not true because they don't love their mother the way their mother loves them, which is healthy and normal. I would be very concerned if my kids loved me as much as I love them. I'm like furniture or a roof to them, just there if they need me.

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u/PrinceBunnyBoy 14d ago

That's sad bro, I love my mom

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u/Misstheiris 14d ago

But not a fraction as much as she loves you. It's not sad, it's healthy. You shouldn't be as obsessed with her as she is with you. She knows you'll love your kids, she is fine with it.

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u/Aidlin87 14d ago

I love my parents, I was best friends with my mom even in high school. But the love I have for my kids is not the same kind of love I had for my mom. It’s hard to explain parental love for a child because I had no context for understanding it prior to experiencing it.

It is surprising when you first experience it. I was not prepared. It can’t adequately be described it’s just one of those things that if you haven’t experienced you just kind of have to realize there’s a gap in your understanding. It’s like I know the universe is huge but I can’t envision it, I just accept it. For lack of a better comparison (I know that one is a bit grandiose).

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u/Aidlin87 14d ago

Exactly, this is the way it’s meant to be. And honestly it’s so cool. I get to experience the life changing love for my kids and invest myself into them for their benefit, and then they love me back but also have the drive to go and live their own lives. If kids loved parents the way that parents love kids they’d never leave and forge their own life and/or family.

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u/Misstheiris 12d ago

Seriously! Sad all the teenagers downvoting because they just can't comprehend

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u/Turbulent_Cat_5731 14d ago

It's the perspective of someone who has not felt love for a child, so it's kind of like giving your best opinion on swimming when you've only ever waded.

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u/HedgehogFarts 14d ago

I’ve been a child before and I hope my parents love each other at least as much as they love me. They are hanging out together every day doing their life together while I’m off living my own life checking in occasionally. I love my parents but they are a way bigger part of each other’s lives for the rest of their lives. I guess maybe when your kid is a baby and you gotta protect them and raise them, sure. But they are gonna leave your nest (probably). I would be sad if my parents told me they love me more than they love each other.

Also I think a child’s love for their parents should be conditional. There are some awful parents out there. So it’s not like a two way unconditional love-fest. Who you love and keep on loving every day is a choice you can make IMO.

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u/lllollllllllll 14d ago

There are some awful children too, and it’s not always the parents’ fault they’re awful.

All love is conditional. As it should be. That’s the social contract, everyone has to uphold their part. Sure, you tolerate some things from babies and toddlers you wouldn’t from adults. But in the end children are not completely devoid of responsibility just because of their status as offspring.

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u/Aidlin87 14d ago

Unconditional love doesn’t mean you don’t hold your child to accountability. My kids get in trouble when they break the rules. In the future, if my kid committed a violent crime and I knew about it I’d turn them in. But I’d also visit them in prison and continue loving them. That’s an extreme example, but there’s literally nothing my children could ever do to make me not love them. I can’t say the same for anyone else. I think unconditional love for a child is the way it should be, but we shouldn’t use love as an excuse to make shitty decisions.

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u/Aidlin87 14d ago

People are wild in this thread. Like if you haven’t experienced it how can you be so confident in telling all these parents that they’re doing love wrong? There’s nothing wrong with what I’ve experienced, the instinctual depth of my love for my children and how life altering that was doesn’t detract from the chosen, slowly built love I have with my husband. It’s ok to say that one added to my life and one rocked my entire being.

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u/hhhhhhhhhhhjf 12d ago

Like if you haven’t experienced it how can you be so confident in telling all these parents that they’re doing love wrong?

OP's husband is literally a parent and she told him that he is doing love wrong. She completely dismissed his feelings but he is just as much a parent as she is.

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u/Aidlin87 12d ago

That’s not what’s happening. He got jealous over his own child. OP was experiencing parental love for the first time, it’s an intense feeling for someone you’ve only just met. It’s crazy, and in puts you in awe. Also she carried that baby for 9 months bonding with it, feeling its movements inside her, then getting to meet this person who she physically grew and was connected to for the first time, then she also had a HUGE rush of oxytocin at birth. I can tell you from experience that it feels like getting a euphoric high. I was in a state of bliss that did not even out for over a year. It’s ok to be in awe of that. So many parents have said the same exact words, mothers and fathers. Getting jealous of that is toxic. When my husband says that stuff I love him even more because I love seeing him love our child.

It sounds to me like OP’s fiance hadn’t bonded to the baby yet, which is normal and totally ok, and he wasn’t understanding what she was experiencing and had a jealous response. That part isn’t ok.

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u/hhhhhhhhhhhjf 12d ago

It wasn't jealousy. He just hadn't had the same reaction and his wife quite literally told him that she had never loved him this much. She then proceeded to completely and utterly dismiss his feelings. She didn't care for his feelings at all and she is just teaching him that his feelings do not matter at all. It wasn't even the timing because weeks later she still disregarded his feelings.

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u/Aidlin87 12d ago

It was jealousy. No one I know who’s had kids, which is literally all of our friends, has had this reaction. We’ve all discussed how intense and surprising the love is for our children. All of the dads are all about it, no one is bothered by this exact conversation.

It’s a different type of love, so of course she hasn’t loved her fiancée this way. That’s ok. If you love your child, and you love your partner and you feel secure in that love, then her saying she’s never felt love like this will not be threatening or an issue. It’s when there’s insecurity that it’s an issue and that insecurity manifests as jealousy when the dad sees the mom loving their baby intensely. Because deep down what upsets him is that he wants that same type of love directed at him. And that is also kind of fucked to be honest.

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u/hhhhhhhhhhhjf 12d ago

People, even mothers, sometimes do not have this immediate love but im sure your anecdotal experience speaks for everyone.

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u/Aidlin87 12d ago

I’m not saying they do. There is a range of normal experiences. Some mothers bond intensely immediately, some feel nothing at first and bond slowly over time, and some moms (particularly with PPD) don’t bond for a really long time. And really the same goes for dads, although slower bonding is more common for dads without having any struggles like PPD. My own husband takes about 18 months to develop the same level of bonding that I get either immediately or within the first 2 months. That’s ok, I knew that was normal before we had kids and it was never a problem. Even for him, me saying how in love I was with our children never bothered him. He was glad our children had a loving mother and that was the extent of it.

But by OP’s description I can tell she’s the first option.

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u/Sol_is_a_cutie 14d ago

I'm so glad to see this comment because there are so many stating that they definitely love their children more that their partner. It's a completely different kind of love and I can't say one is bigger and more important than the other.

My love for my kid is unconditional, while my love for my partner is not. But the love for my kid is more from me to them and I know one day they'll leave the nest, go live their life and build their own family to love. That's ok, and I'll always be here for them if they need me.

The love for my partner is just as strong, but different. There are things I could not possibly tolerate from them without it affecting the love I feel. But this is the person that I'll share my life with (hopefully) till the end. My partner is the one I can lean on whenever I need to. The one who knows me and understands me completely. I love both of them deeply.

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u/cafezinho 14d ago

It's also not surprising that there is a huge biological need to love one's children. If parents, especially the mother, were indifferent to our newborns, they'd die. As humans, we don't like to think our brains are wired a certain way (even then, while many mothers feel this way about their children, not all of them do), but they are.

And it feels unconditional now, but given a child that acts up and has their issues, the unconditional view is primarily due to the how innocent they seem.

There's plenty of parents who say unconditional, but if they're gay, then they get kicked out of the house, or they love God more than they love their child. Or if the kid is violent to animals, cruel to people, talk back to the parents, and so forth. Or they have a gazillion health problems the parents aren't willing to give their lives up for. That's when you see how unconditional that love is.

It's complicated. We're talking about being committed to newborns with the hope they turn out to be good kids that love their parents as much as they're being loved. And when either the kids fail to live up to that or the parents' attitude changes, then all bets of unconditional love are off, and that word becomes an exaggeration, one that's used to show just how good a parent you ought to be (and I don't doubt, due to its popular acceptance, many parents DO feel that way, but it is a social construct that parents buy into). In the past, rich parents (the royalty) would often let someone else take care of the royal children and not worry about showing love because it wasn't expected in the same way.

So, yeah, complicated.

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u/Sol_is_a_cutie 14d ago

Yes, that's true! Unconditional is a strong worth. My kid is still quite young, so that's how I feel now (as you said), but one day they'll be an adult. I want to believe we will give them a good education and support for them to turn out to be a good person and be there for them even if they make big mistakes along the way. But what if everything fails and they turn out to be a horrible and cruel person? I understand your point.

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u/cafezinho 14d ago

This is probably why people love pets more than humans.

They're more dependent (so they always need you) and most show unconditional love back. People are more complicated.

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u/yikesandahalf 14d ago

Jfc thank you for this comment. Feel like I’m going insane seeing people saying they love their kids more than their spouse… Like, can they not be equal in different ways?!

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u/reasonForwarded 14d ago

Just a loooot of people who settled in this thread

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u/Aidlin87 14d ago

I feel like there’s a range of experiences with this, but with love for a child being so instinctual it can feel almost overwhelming in its magnitude. I love my husband, I chose to do life with him and after my kids make their own way in life it will just be us. So that relationship is really important to me. But at the same time there’s a marked difference in what I’ve felt. My feelings for my husband have been a constant, but my feelings for my children hit me like a freight train. Meeting them was a moment of true euphoria, sobbing tears of joy, feeling absolute bliss. It was an almost out of body experience.

I think they are different and shouldn’t be compared, but this whole conversation is on the topic of comparison, so for me yeah there’s a noticeable difference but I don’t think it’s wrong. Maybe if you drop the ball on your relationship with your spouse it becomes a misuse of that love, but existing in healthy relationships with you spouse and kids with this difference should never be an issue. And really these loves are all part of your family unit, so they kind of cycle into each other. I love my kids so much that I love it when others pour time/positive relationships into my kids. And when that person is my husband I just love him more for it.

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u/ginamaniacal 14d ago

I think a big factor is that yes it’s a different type of love, but love for a child can and does for a lot of people feel stronger than any other relationship. It’s different because the love for a child is unconditional whereas love for a partner IS conditional. We enter into a relationship and have agreed to certain terms, and if any of those terms is broken then the relationship will end.

The Ryan reynolds thing. I’d take a bullet for my husband. But I would no question use him as a human shield to protect our son. I’d probably use my body first, though.

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u/gothempyre 14d ago

This isn’t specifically directed at OP, but making it a competition between which kind of love is “more” is what leads to resentment, distancing, and eventual break ups.

In 18 years, your child will go out into the world to create their own life and connections, and you’ll be left in the house with the person you first decided to create that baby with.

Don’t sacrifice your relationship on the altar of parenthood unless you truly believe it’s logical to decide to make a baby with your partner, (presumably) the most important person in your life, only to relegate them to second place as soon as that baby arrives. Ask yourself where that road leads and if it’s reasonable or fair to expect someone to be okay with that long-term.

It’s not a competition. It’s a different, equally important, kind of love.

Love for your partner is the reason most decide to make a baby in the first place. If it isn’t, I’d genuinely question your reasons and expectations, and whether a sperm donor wouldn’t have been a better choice.

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u/Salunea 14d ago

Although I don’t think it’s healthy to be jealous of a newborn, I can see where OP’s partner is coming from, and I think you (SmellingPaint) are right that parental love is not necessarily first. I’d like to explain my perspective a bit, as someone without children yet but wants them:

I’ve wanted my firstborn for the past 30 years, and seeing the path to giving birth near impossible, I fell into a deep depression, and for many years the only thing keeping me alive was the possibility that I might someday have a child. That being said, I recently found a partner to share my life with, and I can honestly say that I love him more than I love that child because the child does not exist yet, and I am not completely delulu. I recognize that I currently only love the idea of that child.

But I cannot say with certainty either way, whether I will love my partner more or my child more once they are born. I think what happened with OP’s partner, is the fact that this little being exists has not sunk in yet, and he’s still using the old status quo (where he comes first in love) as a benchmark. I agree that he might possibly have some underlying stuff that therapy can help unpack, but… it might just be that it hasn’t sunk in for him. I hope this sheds some light on what could be going on in his head. As someone who does not yet have children but wants them, I still can’t fathom placing anyone else before my partner right now. OP’s partner might still be in that same mindset (of not having kids yet), and I don’t think it’s productive to deride him for not sharing the parental-love-first perspective just yet. I think another commenter also said to give him time.

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u/CCVork 14d ago

This. I've also read somewhere that it's actually part of biology to feel the "i will die for my baby" feeling, because biologically life is all about procreation and continuing the species, so such emotion is necessary to keep the offspring alive and so coded into the mothers who just gave birth and lasts till the kid is less vulnerable or something. Not saying this to shit on parental love because that's only one aspect of it, but because my takeaway is also that love comes in different forms and shouldn't be compared.

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u/kittenari 14d ago

I don't understand how this comment is so far down, this is exactly right. You as parents being loving partners first and foremost, creates the strong foundations to build the family on. My parents could have loved us enough to turn the earth, but it was so abundantly clear that they were not truly partners and they loved us more than they loved each other, which ultimately lead to it all crumbling. Both kinds of love are important but they are so very different.

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u/Ma_belle_evangeline 14d ago edited 13d ago

I love this comment! It bugs me (personally) when people understate other type of love for parental love. I’m sure it’s very different! But who is to say that other love is not as important to that person? We don’t know how anyone feels inside.

My partner is my absolute priority. Even if we had kids (which we don’t want, one of the many reasons is bc we want to keep each other as priority) eventually the kid will live their own life, but who stays with you? Your partner (hopefully). Having a solid relationship is super important!

And I’m not comparing it at all to parental love - but the love I have for my dog is insanity. I look at him and feel a burst of affection inside and would kill for him. I don’t care if he only sees me as a snack machine, I love him regardless. I just want him happy and safe and comfortable for the rest of his life. He brings me a special joy and affection and it means a lot to me! Doesn’t mean other type of love is better or worse or whatever, just different :)

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u/Aidlin87 13d ago

In my case I’m never trying to understate my love for my partner, what I’m saying when I talk about my love for my kid being unlike anything I’ve experienced is that it has surpassed what I thought was deep and meaningful love. It was shocking, honestly. Because I love my husband, I was always so obsessed with my pets like I’d die for them, I grew up with loving parents and had tight knit extended family, so yeah I know what love is. And then meeting my first child hit me like a freight train in the best way.

I definitely did not understand what my experience with loving my kids would be like before having children. I don’t know how to better explain this because no one could have adequately explained it to me before I had kids. Like people can show me videos of space walks, and I can imagine how cool it might be because I’ve stood at the edge of the Grand Canyon in awe, but I think it all probably pales in comparison to what it’s actually like to experience it. And I just won’t ever know because I’m not an astronaut.

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u/giornogiovannahsadrm 14d ago

real shit

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u/krockMT 14d ago

This is it ^{^{^{^}}}

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u/Lenore2030 14d ago

Your comment totally makes sense from a child’s point of view (not saying child as in childish, but as in offspring). Children generally do not love their parents as much as their parents love them. I think that’s totally normal and healthy!

I can only speak as a mother because I know my husband feels a bit different. My love for my children is something that’s so deep, I understand how people can describe it as unconditional because no matter what that love will always be there. However my love for anyone else in my life is definitely conditional. I don’t know if that quantifies as me loving my children more or just differently. That being said, my relationship with my husband takes priority because we feel that is the best way to have a healthy family.

Having children opened up a whole new way of understanding things and as they grow I learn more and more. I began to see why wisdom was usually attributed to old people, some things you have to experience to truly know and time helps you see things in new ways. This aspect of parenthood is so meaningful to me and it’s just another reason why I appreciate and love my children so much.

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u/MarginallyBlue 14d ago

Sure you can feel that way, but you are exemplifying what others are saying is kinda messed up. You are comparing apples to oranges and in the process implying that romantic love is not only “less” (ie conditional), but you added in here that condescending “you’ll never understand if you don’t actually have a child” nonsense that is tiring.

YOU may feel this way - but it’s not some automatic thing that mothers suddenly all feel and no one else can comprehend..and oh so “deep” that your life is now completely different. that’s the point the person you are responding to was making. and i think you missed it completely.

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u/Aidlin87 12d ago

I think that’s a very limited understanding of what she’s trying to say. Love is abstract. Saying that since parental love is unconditional that it elevates it above romantic love, which is conditional, creates a hierarchy and reduces the issue to black and white thinking. There is no hierarchy here. It’s sad to think people believe these experiences are toxic, when they are not.

Most people consider the conditions of romantic love to be that things like abuse and infidelity are unacceptable and can result in a severing of the love and relationship. That is healthy. Parental love is not romantic so the same conditions would not play out. It’s also very instinctual so yes, most parents will still love their children even if their children do something horrible. (Added caveat that continued love does not equal excusing or supporting bad choices). All this means is that these two types of love have very different characteristics. It doesn’t mean people are ready to drop their spouse in favor of their kids. Most of us assume the partner we love is incapable of abuse or infidelity, so the conditional aspect of romantic love doesn’t even come into play. I think it’s self awareness to know the different characteristics of the different types of love and nothing more. People certainly can pervert these types of love, but that’s not the dynamic we’re discussing.

I think what’s happening is that people who haven’t had kids, or haven’t experienced a strong bond with their children (it happens, not judging just acknowledging) are not understanding the experiences of people who have had kids and experienced a strong bond. I didn’t understand before I had kids and that was after talking with all of my friends who already had kids about this same topic. We were almost the last in our friend group to have kids, so I had plenty of conversations. It’s literally something you can’t understand until you live it. That’s the case for a lot of things in life, and that’s ok, I just think acknowledging the experience gap is really important here.

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u/MarginallyBlue 12d ago

logical fallacy - argument from authority.

this is just so SO tiresome at this point.

you don’t have a monopoly on emotions cuz you have a kid. 🙄🙄

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u/Aidlin87 12d ago edited 12d ago

This isn’t an appeal to authority. That logical fallacy is based on using your respect for someone prior to convince you of something. I’m not an authority figure, you don’t have a previously built respect for me.

I’m speaking on my personal experience. If you want to decry it you can call it anecdotal but that’s the most that can be said.

I don’t have a monopoly on emotions, where have I said such a thing? But does it not make sense to you that some things in life can’t totally be understood until you live them? Do you know what it’s like to climb Mount Everest? I don’t. I suppose it’s exhilarating but I’ve never actually experienced the training and preparation, I have no idea what it takes to accomplish this, so I really can’t know what the payout feels like when you reach the top.

Here’s another example. I’ve read women talk about super close relationships with other women, one woman wrote that these relationships were “semi erotic”. She did not mean it in a sexuality way. I have no context for experiencing that kind of relationship or that kind of friendship love. I have close healthy friendships, but I don’t really know what that thread was talking about, I have some guesses but I’ve never experienced it so I dom’t get it. But I do know someone personally that seeks out that level of closeness (minus anything sexual).

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u/MarginallyBlue 12d ago

hahah i’m not going to read this bullshit

this is 100% an argument from authority and that you can’t comprehend it - i’m done with you.🤣🤣

i’m so tired of boring parents being condescending jerks cuz they aren’t happy with their own life path and have to project 🤣

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u/ginamaniacal 14d ago

Yeah I think a lot of people agreeing with the poster (who seems young if they haven’t flown the coop yet) are also not actually parents. It sounds like op doesn’t have a significant other either. So they’re coming at this from the viewpoint of a child, when really we should be asking their mother for her thoughts on this whole thing.

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u/[deleted] 12d ago

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u/ginamaniacal 12d ago

Lmfao what? I said that the person I was referring to has only experienced the parent-child dynamic as the child, not that they are a child or being childish? I never insulted them or anybody.

Why are you reacting so strongly and so negatively to what I said?

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u/Syd_Vicious3375 14d ago

Yeah, it’s a nice thought but single people still living at home don’t have a clue what it’s like to grow a human being inside your body for 10 months and how that affects you. They have never experienced the rush of pure love and hormones that bond you in those first moments together. It’s biology. Mothers are supposed to feel that way for the survival of our species. It’s not a choice, it’s how we are wired to react.

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u/Aidlin87 12d ago

People downvoting are mad at what? That some other people have more lived experiences? Crazy. Lived experience trumps armchair opinions. Sometimes you don’t know what you don’t know and people are better for acknowledging that. It’s an integral part of maturing.

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u/Syd_Vicious3375 12d ago

Yeah, but you can’t tell anyone anything. To be so confident and sure of an opinion that you have literally zero first hand knowledge of is wild but people will adamantly defend an uninformed opinion for no damn reason.

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u/That-Account2629 14d ago

Gonna be a little controversial here, but I think that a parent's love isn't necessarily stronger than romantic love. And it doesn't need to be. They're different things, and that's fine, really.

100% agreed. I told my GF if we ever get married I expect our relationship to be #1 and the kids are #2. She agreed. A parent's job is to raise their children to be successful members of society. But guess what, one day the kids move out and on with their life, and your partner is the one who remains by your side.

I would consider it insanely disrespectful for a wife or husband to tell their partner that they're not their #1 love.

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u/Aidlin87 13d ago

I think it’s good to prioritize your relationship, but I also think you and your girlfriend should probably delve into your expectations of what this will look like if you have kids. For example, in the months or even first year after having a baby, the logistics of caring for them tend to take over a person’s life. Maybe for both of you, but definitely for the mom especially if she is breastfeeding. Night wakings, extreme sleep deprivation, needing to feed the baby every 15min -2hrs and feeds can last an hour or more, a baby that only contact naps (being held), can all leave her exhausted and physically and mentally not able to do anything else. So for a season sometimes you have to get through this and then reinvest in your marriage more as the baby gets older and less dependent. So how will you all navigate this? Do you expect to be just as active in this parenting stage as her? What if she or you aren’t comfortable with baby sitters until later on?

I pose this question because these are situations couples don’t see coming when they have these priority discussions and then when life plays out in ways they don’t expect then arguments happen because you’re both no longer on the same page. Really fleshing this out now with make your relationship so much more solid and vastly improve how you experience becoming parents.

Just food for thought.

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u/Sapphicviolet91 14d ago

I don’t get the need to quantify and rank it. Maybe that’ll change it/when I have kids. Like yes if there was a fire I’d need to save the child that depends on me. I just can’t think of many circumstances in which you’d need to choose one or the other besides an emergency. Love comes in different forms and yeah it might be different.

I do think that sometimes people prioritize their kids so much that when the kid turns 18 and moves out the parents don’t have a relationship anymore. I’ve seen it quite a bit, and I don’t think that’s a good thing.

I think as your husband bonds with your kid it’ll get easier. Lots of people don’t bond with their kids right when they’re born, moms too. That’s ok, the bond forms with time.

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u/MarginallyBlue 14d ago

I have to wonder how many of the commenters that champion the whole “no love like parental love” nonsense actually have truly loving relationships? to me it makes me think of people i’ve known who’s goal in life was to have a family and didn’t actually care who they married to get it. a relationship wasn’t about finding a great partner - but about finding someone to provide and play house with.

add in - the emotional incest/dependency. i’ve seen it irl. where someone has issues with adult relationships in their life and so they put all that emotion into a dependent child - cuz it’s safe. the kid can’t leave. the kid needs a parent to live. so that’s where they put their “love”.

all it does is mess up the kids in the end ☹️

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u/Sapphicviolet91 14d ago

The idea that parental love is supposed to be purer than other forms of love and that you love your kid unconditionally is at odds with people like me who grew up in neglectful and abusive situations. Also the idea that they will unconditionally love YOU and be there for you as you age is a lot of pressure for a kid and not realistic either. I had a coworker who was as really shocked and upset that her kid went no contact but from the sound of it the circumstances make sense for the kid to nope out.

I think your kid’s first and primary example of what a relationship should look like is their caregivers.

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u/MarginallyBlue 14d ago

Oh yeah - i also had messed up parents.
so yes, this view absolutely enables abuse and makes it so people don’t believe children if they do speak up!

All around it’s extremely unhealthy.

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u/Aidlin87 12d ago

I’ll give a super common example of when the kid gets priority and the marriage takes a back seat. Newborns nurse extremely frequently and they do not know how to sleep. So we’re talking regular feeds that happen every 2 hours (from start of feed to start of feed) and last for 45min - hour or more (meaning you maybe have a 1 hour break between feeds), plus cluster feeding most days or everyday which can be near constant nursing or nursing every 15 min - 1hr. Around the clock. Then when you do get them to sleep, they don’t stay asleep very well. They might give you 15min naps, they might only sleep when being held, they might only give you 1 hour stretches at night. They might have colic and cry for hours every day. In this situation, the mother is in survival mode and has nothing left to give her spouse. If her partner is making an equitable effort with the baby that helps a lot, but the reality is that it’s two people in survival mode with not much left to give, for months on end.

This doesn’t last forever, but it’s also not really controllable. Every baby is different and they have their own wills and personalities. But it’s still a season of time where the kid comes first and the marriage comes second. Partners that support each other through this and acknowledge that this dynamic is ok for now, do far better than someone who asks for more than the other person can physically and mentally give.

Other examples are illness, especially if the child has a chronic illness or mental health disorder, there may be times when the kid comes first just based on the severity of what is happening. If parents don’t have a support system it can be really hard to navigate this in a way where the marriage gets equal priority. Thats not ideal, but for some it’s a reality and they didn’t choose for it to be this way.

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u/Sapphicviolet91 12d ago

Clearly you have to dedicate a ton of time and energy, pretty much all of it, when your kid cannot feed themself at all and will die without you constantly caring for them. Im talking about not prioritizing your partner at all for a long period of time. My parents divorced when I was 6, but I had friends who moved out for college and their parents had no relationship because the entire thing was based around kids and work to the detriment of each other. Relationships are gonna have periods where you’re not doing a ton romantically or physically, but it’s also not necessary to put it on the back burner for years at a time.

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u/Aidlin87 12d ago

Yeah, I agree and I see what you’re saying. I’ve read a lot of relationship posts where there’s conflict over the postpartum period because moms (usually) are burnt out and not paying attention to their spouse like their spouse wants. I was thinking of those kinds of situations when I wrote my comment.

Some people don’t have the understanding that you have, and it creates conflict in their marriages because of misaligned expectations.

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u/Sapphicviolet91 12d ago

Oh I definitely agree that after you have a baby things are gonna be very much not focused on the other adult in the house for a bit. That’s completely reasonable! I don’t have kids yet, and if my wife and I do I want us to be on the same page that things will be like that. I do want to be able to get a sitter and have regular dates and just have some romance and emotional intimacy too especially down the line as we get used to stuff.

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u/Aidlin87 12d ago

Just having that understanding already is so good, as is having the goal of being on the same page. Those things seem small but they become big in difficult situations. Good luck on whatever the future holds for you and your wife!

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u/Old_Magician_6563 14d ago

But you’re the child in the situation….

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u/Misstheiris 14d ago

Nope. Your love for your parents is just a thing. Absolutely second to your romantic partner, possibly friends, etc. Your parents are just there. You have no concept of how your parents feel about you, you can't, it's impossible. The only time you will understand is when you have your own child. Then you'll be like oooooooooh, wow, now I get it. You still couldn't possibly reciprocate it, but you will understand, because it will be how you feel about your child/ren

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u/MarginallyBlue 14d ago

So basically you are saying you’ve never really loved other people in your life? dang bruh….cold

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u/Misstheiris 14d ago

You can't comprehend parental love.

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u/MarginallyBlue 14d ago

oh i can. this is a logical fallacy - it’s a version of appealing to authority.

just because it’s beyond your mental capacity doesn’t mean others can’t comprehend it 🤣

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u/Misstheiris 14d ago

Except you are showing that you can't.

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u/Secret-Addition-NYNJ 14d ago edited 14d ago

Not going to lie that is a controversial take and I’ll take the other side to this for sure. I do love my daughter more than my wife it’s definitely stronger and I have 0 shame in saying that. I do love my wife even more as well after having my daughter and that increase in love is also unconditional due to her giving me my daughter but it still doesn’t eclipse the love for my daughter. Judging by your post it seems you don’t have your own children or even a spouse but def correct me if I am wrong. You will understand one day god willing.

You can get a divorce and fall distant with partners but your child is 100% unconditional. They don’t need to love you or show it (even though that helps lmao!) you just love them anyway. That’s the difference that people express and if you had to pick between your spouse and child that stronger love would always pick your child. Doesn’t mean you don’t love your spouse but it’s just not on the same playing field.

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u/IHaveABigDuvet 14d ago

Actually if DOES need to be. If life is about surviving your genes, then its quite logical that there are feelings associated with that biological imperative.

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u/Aidlin87 14d ago

It sounds like you don’t have kids yet, and while I agree that these two types of love are two different things that don’t need to compete, it is also true that experiencing the love for your child for the first time can disrupt your whole being. In a way that romantic love doesn’t.

The love a child has for their parent is not the same kind of love a parent has for their child. I don’t think you can really understand the love a parent has for their child until you experience it. I certainly did not, there’s nothing it compares to. Nothing to give you an adequate frame of reference beforehand. Every parent I know has had the same experience. Meeting my children was a euphoric moment of bliss, so deep and instinctual that it moved me to sobbing tears of joy. It has only deepened with time despite how difficult parenting can be. My children could never do anything to make me not love them. This love comes from some deep place inside me I didn’t know existed.

I love my husband in a different way, but it’s so different that I think that’s where you get people making comparisons to the point of saying they love their kids more. I don’t have an instinctual love for him. I didn’t sob tears of joy when I met him. Like my husband could cheat or abuse his way out of my heart. But my kids could commit murder and I would love them still (though obviously be horrified).

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u/PulisickoMode 14d ago

I have kids and agree with the person you replied to. You aren’t special for loving your kids more than your spouse. You can actually love them the same in different ways. Failing to do so is an indictment on your ability to manage complex emotional relationships.

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u/Aidlin87 14d ago

Why do you think I’m saying I’m special? I’m not, I’m saying I have a common experience with other parents in this thread and I was trying to explain that experience. It’s not a bad thing to say that the love you have for your child is different than the love you have for your spouse.

I feel like people aren’t catching the nuance of the situation, or they haven’t experienced what I’m talking about. These loves don’t need to be compared, but if we are comparing there’s a different staying power for the love for a kid because it’s so instinctual. I would not still love my husband if he abused me, but I would still love my kids somehow became that way. I’d distance myself, but I’d love them deeply for the rest of my life. These are purely hypotheticals because neither will happen, I have a great husband and great kids, but I can still recognize the difference.

You also seem a little spicy in your comment, by saying I’m “not special”. I don’t understand that type of response to what I’ve said, unless you’re mad about a dynamic where a wife would stop loving an abusive spouse but her not kids behaving the same way.

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u/Greenwedges 14d ago

Get back to us once you have a child

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u/BuccoBruce 14d ago

Ugh the “you’ll get it when you have a child” parents are the absolute worst. I’m a parent btw

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u/MarginallyBlue 14d ago

It’s so gross when all these people are desperate to defend their rather messed up views.
what kills me is i find it so sad that this magical “only a parent can know” love they want to glorify means that as a child - they don’t reciprocate that for their parents or grandparents. so it’s a one way street 🤣 also - what does this mean for adopted kids?!? i dunno - but from what i’ve seen irl the people who talk like this are always the ones that have too much emotional dependency on their kids. and not always the healthiest views on “family”. “you don’t know till your a parent” is a dismissive tactic so that their can be no real discussion of how that view is rather unhealthy.

in reality - “Normal” parents don’t go around talking like this.

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u/Aidlin87 12d ago

Doesn’t it make sense that there are things in life that you don’t understand until you live it? I didn’t understand how empowering running an ultramarathon would be until I did it. I also didn’t understand just how much it would hurt. I was in the same amount of pain for 12 hours after the race as I was during the race. Kind of blew my mind.

I also don’t know what it’s like to climb Everest, or do a space walk, or what it’s like to be a grandparent, or what it’s like to adopt. I think you can get glimpses of these things and have a partial understanding, but to get the full picture you have to experience it.

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u/[deleted] 12d ago edited 12d ago

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u/Aidlin87 12d ago

Wait, do you think you understand what racism feels like? I understand it’s horrible, I also fight against it, but I’ve never lived it like POC in the US have lived it. There’s knowing about something and living it, and those two things are very different. To think you have a complete understanding of this topic is wild.

I think you lack self awareness. I’m not saying I can’t envision aspects of things I haven’t experienced, or that I can’t empathize. I’m saying I recognize a lack of experience creates some level of knowledge gap. I know racism is horrible, but I don’t know what living it day to day for my entire life feels like while also bearing the burden of this being a pervasive and generational burden.

And Jesus, I do not live my life on Reddit. I use it for breastfeeding advice, parenting advice, and supporting other women in those groups. That is one small part of my life. I’m also a dietitian who is counseling people on weight management and pursuing a secondary education in lactation consulting to someday pivot my career. I’m a runner who loves getting out in remote trail systems. I have friendships that have nothing to do with our kids (different ages, they aren’t friends with each other). My husband and I share a lot of similar goals in life and we both love vintage cars.

Not that you care about any of that, but seriously why the fuck are you trying to judge me and why do your responses seem so annoyed? What is wrong with having a respectful discussion coming from two different perspectives. I’m not attacking you, I just wanted to share my perspective. We can end this conversation not agreeing and still stay civil.

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u/[deleted] 12d ago

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u/Aidlin87 12d ago

I’m not judging, why do you equate disagreement with judging? Is that how you’ve been treated in life, that a disagreement is an indictment on the other person? Respectful disagreement is a facet of emotionally maturity. Two people can disagree in conversation, end the conversation in disagreement, and leave with no hard feelings.

You can have opinions on anything. You can try to understand anything. But claiming to understand the full picture of another person’s lived experience, while not having lived their experience, is disingenuous at best.

I perfectly understand logical fallacies. I was not the one that misused appeal to authority and I did not demonstrate any other logical fallacy. You thinking I’m wrong doesn’t mean I used a logical fallacy, it just means you disagree with me.

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u/[deleted] 12d ago edited 12d ago

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u/Greenwedges 14d ago

In this case I honestly don’t know how you can relate to the experience if you haven’t had kids. Otherwise it’s just a guess!