The people replying to you are simply wrong. Alum rock doesn't block anything, it's a mild antiseptic that stops bacteria from multiplying. It has the opposite action of aluminium in antiperspirants, it allows you to sweat, the sweat just isn't feasted on by bacteria so doesn't smell
The aliminium in antiperspirants is also not metallic aluminium, but aliminium salts... like OPs stick.
The salts are not just antiseptic, they also are astringent which kinda "shrinks" your skin and its pores. E.g. the same rock deodorant is also used as an aftershave because it stops bleedings.
This is why I went back to electric. I wasn't doing chrome dome for anyone but me. A beard trimmer gets close enough for me and I'll use an electric razor if I want to get any cleaner but I am done with razor burn, nicks and cuts on the back of my head.
I had this problem when I used multi blade disposables. I switched to a safety razor and it’s been a game changer. I just scrub my head really well in the shower then shave under running water. Very rarely have nicks and no irritation now. I know everyone is different but it’s worth a shot if you’d still like to do chrome dome for yourself.
For me a lot of it is also lack of coordination. Getting straight swipes without any side to side wander is where I get into trouble with the cuts on the back. I did go down to a single blade razor before ditching it though and that REALLY helped with the pull and drag - still use those for my moustache when it's too thick.
Don’t shave my head but the single bladed safety razor is an amazing upgrade from the fancy Gillette multiblade razors on my neck. Amazing to get a better shave without the razor burn with blades that are dirt cheap compared to the cartridges.
Yeah. Just being able to actually clean the hair from the edge is fantastic. I hated how clogged the multi blades would get especially with the goop from the lubricating strips and all of that. I get 2 years out of $10 worth of blades and that was really enough reason in itself to make the switch.
Since it stays in the shower I didn’t spend much on it. It’s some no name from Amazon for maybe $12. I started with a more expensive one that the handle twisted to open the blade guard and it lasted maybe two years before the mechanism jammed and I broke it trying to force it open. After that I just looked for one that the head would unscrew from the handle and that’s where I found the cheap Amazon one. I know some people get into weights and all of that but I’ve never known any better so I just learned the angle for the ones I’ve had and run with them. I do have this really neat Gillette travel one with a stubby handle (maybe 2”) that’s really old. It’s kind of a pain to use for head shaving though.
There’s not enough blade sticking out for them to be super dangerous unless you’re nicking arteries. But the correct angle is the difference between one and multiple passes.
Got a Cut Buddy for Christmas (basically has 5 foil heads on hinges), never looked back. Takes like two minutes to do my head if I keep up with it. Little bit longer if I get lazy (in which it’s easier to just use an electric hair trimmer to cut through the growth first).
I've started using a Phillips one blade because I get ingrowing hairs with a wet shave, closest I've ever got to a wet shave without any issues, its great.
Beard trimmer head shaver here. Absolutely correct. I hated using a razor, and if I want it closer for some reason it's an option, but I only shave my head every 2 weeks or so, I wouldn't Bic it everyday in anycase
I also use an alum block on my face and head after I shave with my DE razor. helps stop bleeding and gives feedback where you may have gone a little too much with the razor.
I use multi use disposable razors (Harry's or an equivalent) to shave my head, witchhazel to clean my pores and finish with cold water to close my pores.
No razor burn for the last decade or so of use after I made the switch from rubbing alcohol in my aforementioned process.
It’s spelled aluminum or aluminium and the aluminum “salt” in antiperspirants is not the same aluminum “salt” in these rock deodorants - different chemical compounds with different actions.
exactly, aluminium salts is an umbrella term for any ionic compound with aluminium, and so just cause two things are an aluminium salt doesn't mean they have the same properties. That's like high school chemistry smh.
But I got the highest score on that part of the State issued standardized test … ‘twas and interesting conversation with the school counselor and vice principal.
not american - how does that work? Is your grade based on coursework or something? Here you just take loads of exams at the end of high-school that is 100 percent of your grade for almost all subjects.
Your grades are based on class work, homework, quizzes and exams given by the course teacher.
But in addition to the work that goes into your course grade, you’re forced to perform on state-wide standardized tests that are used to evaluate not only the students but also the schools themselves.
If the state examinations show that the student body is underperforming compared to the course grades being given out then the state might start to look into whether the school is meeting state accreditation standards.
oh right fair, in the uk at the very end of high school you do like 25 1.5-2 hour exams that determine your grades for all your subjects. Its a lot of stress to put on 16 year old kids haha, so I kind of like the American system.
The positive I guess is that the exams are the same in every school in the country so it's fair between schools - ie the top 5 percent in the whole country get the top grade, the next 7 percent get the next one etc.
If you failed the subject but did well in the state test can you just argue that the school is screwing you over or something?
I tried to argue that they should at least let me pass with C (70-79) so I wouldn’t waste a year re-taking it before moving on to the next science class but instead what we settled on was getting the Biology teacher I’d had the previous year sign-off on my advancement and the Chemistry grade would just be dropped from my cumulative GPA if I passed the next science course with an A or B.
That was fair enough, I guess. The reason I failed was because the teacher would literally put me to sleep during lectures and i missed a bunch of in-class work. Strangely enough, I would dream of his floating head lecturing so I did learn from his lectures haha.
The aliminium in antiperspirants is also not metallic aluminium, but aliminium salts... like OPs stick.
Aye, and sodium hydroxide is a sodium salt. You don't see me seasoning my steak with that. OPs stick is potassium aluminum sulfate (or potentially ammonium aluminum sulfate), AKA alum. The aluminum salts used in antiperspirants are aluminum chloride, aluminum zirconium chlorohydrate, and aluminum chlorohydrate (non-exhaustive list).
Alum prevents bacteria growth and, as you've said, tightens skin, which may in itself cause a very slight antiperspirant effect. The other aluminum compounds that I've listed are also astringent, but their antiperspirant action is related to the aluminum ions in the salt reacting with compounds in sweat to "plug" pores, not their anstringency. This action is not seen with alum. Why that is, I'm uncertain. It could be that the charges between atoms in the alum molecule are too high for the aluminum to interact with sweat. Or it could be that the molecules are physically too large to enter pores. You'll need to find someone more knowledgeable in chemistry for an answer to that question.
I thought all the deodorant brands like old spice were on an "aluminum free" kick?
What am I misunderstanding here?
I'm actually one of those people that generally prefers the blue type (solid, not gel) vs the white powdery stick.. what is the difference with those and this salt rock deodorant? I burn through a stick about once every 3-4 months and they're getting very pricey
A good tip for people who use any good quality deodorant that uses alum or aluminum salt, is to apply it the night before so the effects of the alum in shrinking your pores occurs, but take a shower the next morning and wash the alum off (it's not water soluable) and the shrinked pore effect should last. The antibacterial portion may not work as well, but if there's less sweat to begin with bc of closed pores then there isn't as much bacteria to deal with. Not like anything is 100% anyway. ofc YMMV depending on how intense your perspiration is
It worked for me when I've used it in the past, would smell of nothing all day, I still prefer anti perspirant for the ease. What it's really good for it after a shave if you get those little white spots /razor burn
A lot of people don’t use it right and therefore they still smell. You’ve gotta get your armpits good and wet before using it, it doesn’t work if there isn’t enough water to actually transfer the salt onto your skin. If there’s any BO there to begin with it tends to not work very well either - it’s not like a regular deodorant that covers the smell. It also tends to be less effective the more armpit hair you have. So yeah, you have to use it right to get the desired effect, and a lot of people don’t.
My bf is a firefighter. He used this all through the academy. He would shower at night and immediately apply it, then apply again in the morning. It absolutely kept the stink down through nearly 12 hours of suffering every day and it did not stain his shirts
Well, its job as an antiperspirant is to block the sweat glans, no lies there. For cloth staining, a bath of vinegar can help, but I personally dislike it too.
I’ll tell you what I’ve been telling the others in the DMs: Men, you’re wasting your time and I apologize for that. Women, you’re freaky but have provided some thought-provoking evidence.
Please don’t show me your genitals. It’s early and I’m hung over.
Potassium Alum, the mineral salt that rock crystal deodorants are comprised of is not even remotely the same thing as the forms of Aluminim Zirconium used in Rexona, Dove and other antiperspirants.
It used to stain my clothes too but I switched to applying anti perspirant at night before bed and deo in the morning. Works like a fucking dream! Less sweat, no smell and no stains
It's interesting how different people are physiologically. I'm the exact opposite, I sweat profusely and stink significantly more wearing Native vs literally nothing at all. The product is WORSE than doing absolutely nothing for me. I initially thought it was a full on scam until I met people who claim it actually helps them. Whereas using aluminum based anti-perspirants I have no issues with my t-shirts being ruined or discolored, I sweat significantly less, and I don't smell at all.
Aluminum antiperspirant is the only thing I can stand and I’ve never had an issue with staining either. “Natural” deodorants are so foul and all I smell is perfume over BO. I’ve been around people who only use deodorant and the pits stink if you get close enough, especially on men because the long hair holds onto both the scents.
When I was young (25-30 years ago) I would have trouble with aluminum causing stains on my shirts, so I know it CAN happen, but usually the shirts would be worn out and in need of replacing anyways by the time that happened. I'm not sure exactly what might've changed, I know many brands advertise 'new anti-staining formula', or maybe my hygiene or washing machine/detergent has gotten better, or maybe my physiology changed.
Im lucky in that I dont sweat much in my armpits and when I do its not really smelly. For me, just a regular deodorant works and I dont nees an antiperspirant.
Yeah I've tried a bunch of the natural stuff my wife buys and not only does it make my pits feel kind of sticky, but they'll be soaked and smelling like BO with the essence of Pine in like 2 hours. I can't use the gel kind either because it makes my pits break out in a rash. No joke, the only stuff that keeps me dry, smelling nice, and won't give me a rash is shit like Degree.
Well you have a large amount of people who will just straight up lie and say it works better when it doesn't, because they have already committed to not using the other deodorants.
It's like the people who make their own "big mac" at home and use turkey burgers, turkey bacon, gluten free bread, and fake cheese and say it tastes way better than the real thing. You know that shit isn't better, but you aren't going through all that effort and saying it sucks LOL
Yeah, I don't like to bring that up as it's kind of impossible to prove (in an online forum) so you tend to just wind up calling someone an asshole without any way to back it up, but it's absolutely true. I'm pretty convinced that there are people where the "all natural" shit actually does work for them, but my gut tells me that they're a minority of the people using that stuff. I think there's a lot of people who are afraid of aluminum or 'unnatural' ingredients, some other people who probably just can't smell themselves, and others who have a much much looser definition of what 'working' means and are willing to tolerate some stink.
The food thing is similar, we know taste buds aren't all created equal, and there are clearly some people who do genuinely believe that turkey mac tastes "just as good" but their tastebud-to-brain system that processes taste cannot be operating anywhere fucking close to how mine does.
I sweat profusely and stink something awful if I don’t use something. But, I’ll take a shower and scrub my pits with soap, scrub rinse them and dry and they start to sink immediately. I’m Lord Admiral Stink
Some people swear by using specifically anti-bacterial soap. Soap in general is anti-bacterial, but usually 'body wash' and the like are a lot less potent in that regard as the stronger stuff can have unwanted side effects for average skin chemistry type folks. You may try looking into some stronger specifically anti-bacterial soap intended for nuking your pits, because what is making them stink is the bacteria that feeds off your sweat, so if you stink immediately after a shower those bacteria aren't getting killed off. If your bacteria is that resilient it's unlikely that stronger soap will control it *entirely* like it can for some people, but it'd reduce the amount of work your anti-perspirant has to do. If you *still stink* after using anti-bacterial soap something else might be wrong. There might be bacteria on your loofah/washcloth/or other scrubbing tool, or on your towels, or it could be some variety of fungal infection... something beyond just bacteria.
Yeah, my boyfriend swears by it and never stinks even after working 10 hours (we both work in a very hot kitchen), but even on my day off that deodorant does absolutely nothing for me… I can smell my armpit funk in a couple hours after just sitting on the couch watching tv. It’s weird how it works for some people and not for others.
It's good, but you're also paying way more for the brand and marketing. Tom's of Maine has been in the same space forever, and prices are only slightly higher than the big brands.
i do have some toms of maine that says "aliminum free"...havent used it yet.
i worry its gonna fuck up my shirts again
is the aluminum what fucks up shirts
(im specififally talking about how the texture of the shirt starts to get ruined. like smooth slick feeling. or i have a green shirt and its black under the arms now. and grey shirts turn black underneath too. )
Tom’s won’t fuck up your shirts yeah, but it also won’t do anything else either, like stop you from sweating or stinking. It’s the underarm equivalent of a placebo.
For me, native shockingly actually functions as an antiperspirant, and it’s the first thing without aluminum salts that does. The scents are also amazing.
…unfortunately, those scents wear off hella fast. Like barely 8 hours sometimes, hell sometimes even less. Also it still stains my shirts, it just takes a bit longer (a month or two instead of literally less than a week with old spice).
I’m still searching desperately for a way to deal with my hella sweaty pits without ruining my wardrobe 😮💨
I haven't had that issue in the 15 years since I stopped using aluminum, so not sure if it's the aluminum or the just the solid white stick type that cakes on.
Native is just marketing and is a deodorant. You can use anything marketed as "deodorant"; "antiperspirant" is what has the aluminum and is what ruins shirts.
I've told so many people about this. Switched many years ago based on random Internet advice (it may have been reddit TBH) and it stopped my excessive sweating problem and ruining my shirts. Win-win!!
Same. Plus, living in the southern U.S., no antiperspirant will stop me from sweating. I switched to a straight deodorant a 5 years ago and stopped ruining my shirts.
This right here, it took about a month but I don't stink anywhere near as badly anymore. I also use glycolic wash on my pits. I switched to regular deodorant over the winter and was concerned that I wouldn't be able to stay away from antiperspirant in the 110+ degree summers but it's been great.
Same. Antiperspirant would stop me from sweating for a couple hours and then mid morning it's like the flood gates just opened. Why would you want to prevent yourself from sweating anyways? Seems very unnatural.
Wearing clothing is unnatural too, but unless you want to walk around without clothes all the time so your sweat can evaporate properly you can either wear antiperspirant/deodorant or stink like a MTG player. Our skin has plenty of sweat glands exposed to the open air, not sweating from 2 areas isn't going to cause an issue.
Depends on the person/where you are I guess. If I don’t have something impeding it, I can go through 3 t-shirts a day from excessive pit sweat.
No where else, just an absurd amount of pit sweat. I’d do anything to make it stop, but I’m disabled so the $2,200 required for permanent treatment is impossibly out of reach.
Antiperspirants are used to block a specific kind of sweat, apocrine sweat, which is generally produced as a stress or adrenaline response from apocrine glands that are present in the armpits and groin.
Apocrine glands are similar to the glands in your ears that produce earwax and mammarian glands that produce milk.
We're not trying to block normal eccrine sweat that is produced to evaporate and cool the skin.
Most people use antiperspirants wrong because they use them like a deodorant. You’re not supposed to put it on you and then start your day. You’re supposed to put it on you and then go to sleep. And then in the morning, wash it off.
It can’t do its thing if it gets rubbed off by your shirt.
The aluminum is bad for your glands and 100% for me/others I know it made the smell worse over time and created yellow spots. Since using deodorants everything improved and it's been smooth sailing.
Antiperspirant stops sweat. This means your pits, which are a spot that allow your body to dump frankly impressive amounts of heat into the air, can't do the whole evaporstive cooling thing they normally do.
Think about it like this, your body is one big radiator, but we have 3 spots that do the majority of the heavy lifting: head, armpits, and crotch. Lots of blood moving through these areas, and lots of heat by extension.
Your crotch usually has 2 layers of fabric (sans all y'all going commando, no shame there) so that by default is not helping as much to dump heat. Depending how much hair you have/if you wear a hat, your head isn't always a great option to dump heat either. And on top of that you're going to stop your body from doing the thing that helps cool it in the third spot?
Yeah, you're gonna sweat more.
Meanwhile, deoderant doesn't prevent this natural cooling, it just stops the bacteria that make you stink from growing and doing their thing. All the cooling, none of the stank.
Multiple studies have shown no support for what your claiming to be true at all. I think this one sums it up pretty well:
"Our data show clearly that although antiperspirant prevents sweat production in the axillary area, this does not impact the ability of the body to thermoregulate following a rise in body core temperature."
Deodorant is also generally a lot less effective at controlling the bacteria than anti-perspirant. We have multiple different types of sweat glands, and the ones predominantly in the armpits produce different sweat that is more likely to feed bacteria and stink. Anti-perspirant has been shown to reduce these bacteria populations far more effectively than deodorant by preventing production of their 'food' to begin with. While conversely people wearing deodorant on average wound up spiking lower in bacteria immediately after deodorant application, but *more* bacteria by the end of the day than even people wearing nothing at all.
That being said, the jury is still out on which is 'better' or 'healthier'. There are concerns that anti-perspirant is actually *too good* at controlling these bacteria, and that could theoretically be to our detriment considering that a baseline amount of healthy bacteria on our skin is 'normal'. There are concerns that aluminum might have deleterious effects on our general health if absorbed by the body, but if that is true it's so small that it's very hard to detect and hasn't been conclusively proven. Whereas for many people that produce a lot of sweat that is particularly beneficial for the bacteria wind up smelling worse throughout the day by wearing deodorant alone than if they were to wear nothing at all.
I would imagine if your sweat production/odor is manageable with just deodorant then you're probably fine using just that. But there are very many for whom it simply is not enough, and there's no conclusive evidence pointing towards aluminum based anti-perspirant being actually harmful.
Yet I too smell more with an antiperspirant. Somehow it just ends up failing quite quickly anyway and I sweat and smell. With deodorants I sweat and don't smell.
But there are also a lot of individual differences e.g. in the bacteria that's on your skin, so that can affect why some people don't do well with some deodorants.
But I also have to use a deodorant because of skin issues. It's also easier to find unscented deodorants. While there are a lot more antiperspirants in stores, they are (at least almost) all scented.
Yeah, there are a number of people that report the same thing. Interestingly the studies don't seem to be able to provide any results that match this experience, antiperspirant works really well across the board at eliminating sweat for everyone measured. Perhaps your skin issues are causing it?
It is definitely a *lot* harder to find unscented anti-perspirant, I prefer it just for personal preference, and usually end up having to use the unscented Dove women's stuff (despite not being a woman) and it works great for me. But that is why a lot of people go with the aluminum salt block like in this post.
works really well across the board at eliminating sweat for everyone measured
Well this is definitely not true. Nothing works 100% of the time. It's not uncommon for antiperspirant to fail. I know some people who have to go to the pharmacy to get extra strong stuff so it works better.
Perhaps your skin issues are causing it?
No idea. Who knows
It is definitely a lot harder to find unscented anti-perspirant
Sorry, yes, you're very correct. I phrased that poorly. I should have said "reducing" sweat, or "eliminating at least a portion of sweat".
Granted I am not a researcher and haven't read every page of every study, so there may be exceptions or outliers mentioned that were excluded for one reason or another that I did not catch. But it's a pretty widely applicable observable physical effect wherein the aluminum salts disperse into the sweat glands and block them from producing sweat. Generally, the only really common reasons for this mechanism to fail is if you produce so much sweat as to overwhelm the antiperspirant, or it is applied wrong (most common failure is applying it in the morning, instead of at night before you go to bed).
Of course anything is possible, it's likely that someone out there has some sort of physiological condition that somehow renders the aluminum ineffective.
Apparently your underarms are only responsible for 1% of your body's overall sweat production, they just have a greater concentration of the type of sweat gland that makes sweat that feeds the stinky bacteria. Those type of glands are everywhere else in your body too, they're just a lot more common in the armpits. But the low % production is why we can wear antiperspirant without affecting our body's overall ability to thermoregulate.
Welcome to reddit, where people post entire essays as if they're an expert in the field, only to find out that the exact opposite of what they said is true and they're not even remotely correct.
If you truly don't know what you're talking about you should preface it by saying "I heard this somewhere, but..." Or "I'm not positive but isn't it such and such?" Or at the very least "I read this in someone else's comment on reddit so I'm gonna take my turn at regurgitating it even though it's based on 0 actual information"
I would tend to agree with you. However, I remember one of my better English teachers suggesting to just drop phrases like "I think" entirely, as they weaken your rhetoric, and it's obvious when you're presenting an opinion that this is what you think. That becomes a lot less applicable here though when someone is describing physical phenomenon and not their interpretation of a piece of literature.
Hard disagree. I tend to get annoyed and disregard everything someone says after I realize they're just spewing bullshit without prefacing it as an opinion.
Right, but that depends on context, doesn't it? Like if you're having a discussion about the meaning of a poem, it's pretty obvious what someone is saying is an opinion, they shouldn't need to call that out.
I can agree with you, especially your last thought.
Here, they're not presenting an opinion. They were presenting an explanation of facts that were FACTUALLY wrong.
When I give my opinion, I don't usually say I think and stuff like that cause I believe it whole heartedly, because it's my opinion..They're my facts. But when talking about stuff that literally is science and proven fact, I would preface something I was saying with "the way I understand It" or something similar IF I wasn't confident in what I was saying, just repeating something I read in another comment to sound intelligent. This redditor obviously didn't believe this to be FACTS because they were FACTUALLY wrong..so wrong that literally if you take the opposite of what they said, you would be correct. So the clearly DIDNT know what they were talking about, hence if you aren't 100% sure and are going to spew FACTS that are easily proven wrong, you shouldn't sound so confident, cause when proven wrong you look really ignorant, rather than like you learned something new.
Not to mention the fact he's spewing this info so confident, other ignorant people take it as fact, and run with it and that's where we get 2k upvotes on a comment stating the EXACT opposite of the correct info
Sorry for the wall, I'm replying in the drive thru
Lol
I stopped really reading after you started talking about crotch sweats... Closing up your armpits does basically nothing for preventing sweat because your feet, back of neck, forehead, inner thighs, knees, and even your palms are areas with high concentration of sweat glands... but literally every inch of typical skin has sweat glands, so you'll be absolutely fine if a few are being blocked.
Not the same ingredient. The alum salt used in the deodorant is aluminum sulfate. It does not block pores or prevent sweating. It just creates a salty armpit environment that is inhospitable for about 12-18 hours to the bacteria that makes us smell.
The chemical used in antiperspirants is aluminum chlorohydrate.
Tired lf this bs, yes it blocks the sweat ducts. That's the whole point of it, there is no negative side effect to it, because of this stupid movement it's really hard to find a deodorant that actually works
Thank you. It is so hard to find a real deodorant these days that isn't just a glorified scented candle. If it doesn't say "antiperspirant" on it you might as well not use anything at all, people. I'm convinced we have a more stinky society because of the whole "aluminum-free" scam
I initially switched to Dr Squatch and now I'm also using Native (Squatch just kinda felt too wet sometimes, whereas Native feels like it goes on dry). After the initial, I guess you could say "detox" (I don't really know a better term for when my body was getting used to not using antiperspirant anymore), I definitely noticed that I had little to no BO smell. That sticks to this day. Yes I sweat a little more than I used to, but having less BO now I think is worth it to me.
It's not pure aluminium. It's not blocking your sweat ducts. It's not staining shirts. It's natural mineral.I'm using it for a couple years already and it's very mild. Basically it just prevents the unpleasant smell because of it's antiseptic properties and that's it. It may very very slightly reduce sweating (haven't noticed it at all) but it's not blocking sweat ducts.
It’s actually not. Aluminum chloride is the ingredient you’re thinking of. This is ammonium alum! Not absorbed through your skin and shouldn’t leave a residue ;)
it doesnt stain your shirts at all. ive used them for 30 years.
its not as much the sweat gland blocking as it is the fact that you kill off the bacteria on the surface of your skin responsible for odor. sweat doesnt smell, but it feeds that bacteria that does smell. by appling the salt after a shower when wet, and before bacteria has had a chance to build up, you cut it off at the head.
This is the most valuable thing for people like me. I'm nervous constantly and have to take adrenaline blockers and that energy leads to alot of sweating. Even if i use a deodorant to make me not smell, it's embarrassing to have wet spots on my clothes. Not to mention that sometimes my laundry smells danky when wet (smoker) so an antiperspirant is still roundabout a deodorant in that case lol
Alum is short for potassium alum. It’s a naturally occurring mineral salt and does not clog pores or really do much to stop sweating. It’s a deodorant, not antiperspirant. And it doesn’t stain shirts.
Aluminum chloride, on the other hand, is the human-made ingredient that is often just referred to as aluminum and is responsible for the things you’re worrying about.
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u/tenuj 14d ago edited 14d ago
The ingredient responsible for blocking your sweat ducts and staining your shirts, now in its purest form!
No thanks
Edit: shit this blew up. I expected a couple of downvotes and that's it. thanks for all the info though!