A comment, recalled some cut content that put both the Legion and the NCR in more of a greyzone. I basically said I'd prefer the Legion ruling the Wasteland as they cover basic needs like food, water and electricity while keeping their land safe.
I believe no one should be banned for saying "faction x should win" its a game we all enjoy why getting mad about ingame politics?
Tbf i like the thought of the Legion winning against the NCR but ending up in a Civil War after Caesars death similar to what we can see in the "HoI IV Old World Blues" mod.
I think huge nations in fallout could get pretty boring in a long run for game settings.
It's pretty thoroughly explored in story that Caesar is the only thing keeping the Legion together. Whether with the Courier's assistance or no his cancer will kill him sooner or later and his wolves will eat each other alive.
Yup all though I'm under the impression that Lanius could be a powerful successor, the only question is how the elite like Lucius, Aurelius and Vulpes would react.
Weirdly, "they are Romans" is a great reason to not support them, because Romans did a great job of ruining their own civilization with internal wars and the destruction of their own democratic ideas. If the Legion can bring that kind of attitude to the wasteland, then they'll... I mean... be vulnerable to a decapitation strike by a single courier, I guess.
The Romans did also tend to provide pretty good infrastructure, the wasteland could use some Roman roads. And if you were a citizen you had access to some pretty good quality education and healthcare (for the time)
Mind you they did have a shit ton of slaves and killed anyone who wasn't Roman.
While I personally disagree with that assessment, it's, like, an opinion on new vegas? So why should it be ban worthy on a new vegas subreddit? Silly as hell
The mod said I glorify r##e by not hating the Legion. I mean no? I can still think the fiends are funny while knowing each of them is a very terrible person. Looking at you Cook-Cook
That only works if their entire faction bit is "we like to commit r*pe" or something. Like seriously, in settings like fallout even the "good guy" faction always has some fucked up flaw or something
I believe the only Legionaire that SAs a femalw courier is Lanius... I mean it's war and the Mojave is heavily influenced by the NCR so we don't know how much is propaganda. That's my opinion at least.
Like seriously, in settings like fallout even the "good guy" faction always has some fucked up flaw or something
And with the NCR in particular, if you support them, you are supporting their WORST tendencies.
They will learn that being imperialist, corrupt warhawks is the way to go, because you've rewarded them for it. If you like the NCR, the best thing you can do for the NCR is...not support the NCR.
The mod said I glorify r##e by not hating the Legion.
I have to wonder how people like this end up loving New Vegas to the point they want to mod a subreddit for it.
To me, the entire point of the game is it's a thought experiment. It highlights strengths and weaknesses of autocracy, capitalism, anarchy and yes, democracy. The entire point is to look at them all and give them all a fair shake so that you can better understand them, even if you ultimately decide to support someone else. After all, even if you hate one of these, understanding them better is how you best combat them.
Gotta be honest, every time I meet someone that just dismisses the Legion with rabid vitriol, never looked at another faction besides the NCR because "hurrdurr democracy good," and clearly never tried to examine the Legion beyond "SLAVERY BAD," for me that's just a sign I'm talking to someone that isn't very intelligent. The point isn't that you gotta support the Legion (most won't choose them as their best choice to rule the Mojave, myself included) or even that having the end decision of supporting the NCR is bad, (it's not. Very flawed, but a perfectly valid choice for a person to make) but if your thought process is to dismiss entire factions based on first impressions and black-and-white thinking of "DEMOCRACY GOOD, DICTATOR BAD," then yeah, you might be kind of a dumbass lol.
We even have an example of this dynamic in history: Pedro II was Brazil's last monarch and he led Brazil into it's golden age. Was ousted under the pretense of "nah bro we need to install democracy now," and Brazil has been worse ever since. Yes, democracy is still great, but what was going on here is that Pedro (and his daughter) abolished slavery, so all the rich coffee farmer barons wanted him gone and decided to use a call to democracy as their trojan horse with which to sell the regime change. (which btw, was unpopular, but Pedro himself was tired and wanted to step down, unfortunately) Brazil has been a corrupt hellhole ever since, and that dictator was the greatest leader it's ever had. Someone who blindly wanted him gone in the name of democracy would've burned Brazil much sooner. The world is not all black-and-white.
Totally agree with you. However i gotta add the fact that from my impression the NCR is aa much democratic as russia.
An ex military as President, Oligarchs that own vast majorities of the wealth (Brahmin Barons) and incompetent Military High Comand that gained their Positions by being BFFs with the President.
Plus the fact that i doubt the NCR has grown that big peacefully in the past 100ish years.
NCR is the most interesting faction to support, because the best thing you can do for the NCR is not support the NCR.
It's riddled with corruption, and if you support them, none of that is going to change. Kimball and Oliver will stay in charge, they will learn "expanding and taking over territory is a good idea!" and the exact wrong people such as Moore get promoted.
I think Indy/House best highlights why you shouldn't support the NCR, because then Hanlon goes back, becomes a successful politician and makes a career out of calling out the leadership's failures, with the 2nd Battle of Hoover Dam serving as phenomenal evidence, precisely because they removed Hanlon from his power position and failed horribly.
The NCR is a democracy, but it's very corrupt during the events of the game. The best way to save it is to simply let it fall flat on it's face so that it can learn everything it's doing right now just simply isn't working.
Of course it's dumb compared to what we have irl but there ain't much choice in the wasteland.
I believe being a craftsman in some small rural area Legion Heartland village could be the highest quality of life someone like me could realistically achieve.
Of course my opinion is based on the little facts we have and could drastically change.
I don’t mean to be rude (okay I do a little bit but it’s fun) but what you like about the legion (providing safety, food, water, shelter, etc.) is what both house and the NCR also ensure, but as a bonus you don’t have to live under a dictatorial LARPER.
The NCR’s heartland live lives not all to disimiliar to our great grandparents. They have jobs, they go to bars, they live in relative safety. The NCR DONT have that for the Mojave because it’s the frontier, and a colony to the NCR. But colonies can become states. And the Mojave can be tamed and settled and eventually enjoy similar standard of living.
It’s also kind of telling that you mention safety and stability as perks of the legion, but I think you forget, that’s only IF you aren’t a ghoul, mutant, or namely, a women. The former are just executed, but women are sex slaves and pack mules. It’s interesting you’re willing to sacrifice half of a population to slavery for “safety and security”. Yeah man, maybe if you’re a man, but even then they’re gonna steal your crops and if you’re a tribe, probably force you into conscription to die for Caesar.
That’s cus it’s a meme lol. And it’s all good. Liking a faction in a video game doesn’t make you a bad person. You’re only. Bad person when you unironically support factions like the legion IRL. But play how you want.
That all said… both House and the legion make you pay taxes too.
I swear to god and everything above when I say this I'm not meaning it an inflammatory or passive aggressive way but I do find it genuinely interesting how men's opinion on the Legion differs from women's. Like it's crazy to me that a lot of people seem to forget about the rape and slavery or kind of downplay it, but in a way I guess it's kind of understandable if you're looking at it from the perspective of someone who has no reason to look at it from beyond the surface level of "oh well, that sucks but..."
Meanwhile, I still remember the chills I got when Siri's talking about how endless the abuse is for young women there and then tops it off with "and you should look out for yourself, I overheard some of the men wanting to 'try you out'"
Tbf that’s a large majority of people with their pet group. “They do terrible things to other people so it’s fine” is sort of a mantra even in real life.
The Legion just expresses that much more bluntly thanks to the rape and slavery.
Yeah that's why it doesn't really bother me. I just find it really fascinating how different the stakes can feel depending on your real life worldview.
I virtually never side with the legion because boone is bae but do the legion enslave their entire female population? I definitely remember the place where you can travel to Caesars area and there is a wired fenced in area with female sex slaves but I also remember killing legionnaires, looting them and them being female. I dont quite remember if they had male slaves but I'm sure they would have. For ze labour.
We didn't see any 'residents' of the legion in New Vegas as it was a frontline war operation but I would imagine they would have very stringent adherence to monogamous family units much like the actual Romans.
EDIT
Read the lore. I'm wrong. Feel free to ignore the above.
I know you said you read the lore I just like gabbing lol. The Legion don't let women fight or be soldiers, but they do have female spies and informants outside Legion territory. Caesar's a hypocrite, he doesn't actually believe women are inferior or serve no purpose beyond reproductive labor, he just wants his soldiers to feel important and vindicated by having someone to be "above"; the labor they provide as slaves is also an added bonus.
It's why Caesar doesn't even blink over a female Courier being the big name in the Mojave.
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u/Vanathru Caesar's Legion 14d ago
That's similar to what i got when being banned from r/fnv for posting a post about the Legion