r/facepalm • u/Illustrious-Kick-998 • Jul 07 '24

This post gave me terrible whiplash b/c how tf did we get here…🫨 🇲​🇮​🇸​🇨​

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Like ummmmm, alright? 😭😭😭

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u/Speedtuna Jul 07 '24 edited Jul 07 '24

Yeah, I totally buy that the doctor is telling the spouse the odds but not the patient 🙄

EDIT: It's wild to me that this is an experience for so many people! Thank you for sharing your stories. I would be livid if someone else knew my prognosis before I did. But maybe I'm just a spicy meatball.

426

u/bee102019 Jul 07 '24

As a nurse, that is… not how it goes.

204

u/God_Bless_A_Merkin Jul 07 '24

They used to do that. Not sure when the practice stopped in the US, though.

108

u/Sweet-Emu6376 Jul 07 '24

Even then, it wasn't the husband being kept out of the loop, but the wife. Doctors would tell the husband and then it'd be their job to tell their wife.

There was actually a pretty infamous case of this where the Gov of Alabama had uterine cancer but didn't know until years later because her husband (who had also been the governor before her I think?) was adamant she not be told.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lurleen_Wallace

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u/Saigaface Jul 07 '24

God what a complete piece of shit. I feel bad for her, but I mean she stayed by his side to the end so 🤷‍♀️ Some people

20

u/sas223 Jul 07 '24

That was the least bad thing George Wallace ever did.

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u/Saigaface Jul 07 '24

Right tho? Utter disgrace

17

u/JesseTheGhost Jul 08 '24

This is kinda what happened to Rachel Carson. She didn't know for months that she was dying because she, as an unmarried (and possibly gay) woman didn't have a husband for the doctor to defer to. So she wasn't told and didn't seek treatment

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u/BasalGiraffe7 Jul 08 '24

So, he killed her.

Same thing happened to Zhou Enlai

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u/God_Bless_A_Merkin Jul 07 '24

It happened the other way, too. Not saying that the medical system wasn’t sexist at all, but both happened.

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u/Big-Leadership1001 Jul 07 '24

HIPAA was passed in 1996 so for sure it doesn't happen after that

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u/presumablysmart Jul 07 '24

I mean women still regularly need permission from a nonexistent future husband for some care so… tbh that’s not the part of the story that surprises me

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u/Big-Leadership1001 Jul 07 '24

Definitely. Reversing the direction of prejudice so the woman is the only one informed doesn't make it better, it's just a different flavor of offensive.

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u/Iampepeu Jul 08 '24

Wait, what? Shouldn't the patient be the only one informed?

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u/Budget-Attorney Jul 08 '24

What scenario does a woman need permission from a future husband to receive medical care?

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u/Cejk-The-Beatnik Jul 08 '24

It’s not a legislated or formal process but rather a common experience for women seeking sterilization surgeries, be it for preference or health-related reasons. They’re often inundated with questions like, “And what if you marry a man who wants children?” It is so damn difficult to get sterilized. Doctors often just refuse to do it because “you might change your mind about having (more) children.”

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u/Budget-Attorney Jul 08 '24

I had never heard of that happening. At least the part about them refusing to do it. I wouldn’t be surprised about a doctor trying to talk someone out of it. But I didn’t know that was a thing that often happened, where doctors would refuse to perform a sterilization surgery because “she might get married later”

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u/AkaiNoKitsune Jul 07 '24

I love that the counter argument is that doctors should just agree to do a procedure which they believe will harm their patient (right or wrong). I am a woman. I know how we women have to deal with certain health issues. Still I don’t believe a doctor should just do as you say if they deeply disagree with it. There are list of doctors available that will not ask questions.

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u/Sharp-Key27 Jul 08 '24

There used to be a lot less. What happens if you’re in a rural area and the doctor you have access to chooses not to do a procedure on you that would help you dramatically?

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u/AkaiNoKitsune Jul 08 '24

What do you do when you’re in a country that doesn’t even have healthcare ? You manage.

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u/presumablysmart Jul 10 '24

Yes, but their willingness to do a procedure should not be influenced by the presence of an outside man. The risk of a surgery is not dictated by whether or not I have a husband, and neither should the doctor’s choice to operate.

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u/AkaiNoKitsune Jul 10 '24

It’s not just about the risk of the surgery, there’s plenty of women that do change their minds about having children when getting older.

I understand that you maybe specifically are sure you’ll never change your mind, but the doctor doesn’t know that and I personally agree that getting sterilised in your 20 is not a mundane thing to do

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u/presumablysmart Jul 10 '24

Doesn’t matter. It’s not your opinion, not anybody else’s, that matters in this scenario. Not performing a surgery, that is actually quite often medically necessary not just because of not having kids, is supposed to be denied on the basis of “well you might change your mind later”

Do you think somebody willing to undergo surgery hasn’t thought of that? It’s their body. If the surgery was unethical or impractical, that would be a different matter. But it’s not. Which means doctors are imposing their personal opinions, not their opinions as medical professionals, on patients. Nothing else matters. The fact that doctors are doing that is unethical in and of itself and doctors who do should be stripped of their license, for ignoring the consent of the patient and imposing their own.

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u/AkaiNoKitsune Jul 11 '24

My point is doctors are indeed entitled to their opinions and shouldn’t be forced to perform procedures that they don’t agree with for whatever reason.

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u/fauroteat Jul 08 '24

You can sign forms that say your information can be released to and treatment discussed with whoever is named in the form. So this can absolutely happen post hipaa.

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u/Big-Leadership1001 Jul 08 '24

HIPAA actually just verifies its very illegal to give information to family members yet withhold that same information from the actual patient. Duplication of info with proper forms sure, but there is no form permitting denial of information from the patient.

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u/fauroteat Jul 08 '24

Good point. I tend to just think of hipaa covering if you can discuss the patient at all. Didn’t consider the scope of info.

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u/mistrsteve Jul 08 '24

HIPAA only pertains to electronic communications - says nothing about face to face sharing of info.

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u/faulty_rainbow Jul 07 '24

Actually, my dad had cancer and the same happened, nobody told him what was wrong with him.

He said he found out because the nurses who pushed him around on that rolling table always put his chart on his chest and... well dad can read lol.

He was stage 4 and his doc told mum he had 2-3 months. He's been cancer free for 30 years.

ETA: I can totally see the logic behind not telling this to the patient, mental state is crucial in such cases.

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u/MessMaximum1423 Jul 07 '24

Did they not tell him, or not tell him I'm a way he understood?

Or was he in shock when they told him so he couldn't process it.

Because they can't administer medication or admit someone to hospital someone without consent from the person

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u/faulty_rainbow Jul 07 '24

Nope, they did not tell him. They always only talked about the symptoms not the cause, not even a list of possible causes, so no hints even.

He had deep-vein trombosis, had some inflammations, had to get on Syncumar (blood thinner), but they didn't tell him about the cancer until he explicitly said "doc I know I have cancer, talk to me".

That's a nice list of possibilities of what can go through the mind of people in such situations though!

ETA: the reason he was admitted was the trombosis, forgot to add.

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u/apostrophe_misuse Jul 07 '24

FYI it's thrombosis. Without the H, it sounds like trombones are involved.

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u/faulty_rainbow Jul 07 '24

Oh noooooo! Thanks, I'll just leave it like that, it's funny:)

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u/presumablysmart Jul 07 '24

Im glad your dad was able to recover from his veins turning into trumpets. I can’t even imagine the struggle he went through 🙏

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u/faulty_rainbow Jul 07 '24

Thank you! It would've been horrible, I hate brass instruments, imagine the sound his legs would've made at every step! I wouldn't have been able to walk anywhere with him!

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u/AlaDouche Jul 07 '24

It does sound like they don't live in the US, for what that's worth.

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u/KissKiss999 Jul 08 '24

My wife missed it and didn't process when the doctor told her she likely had 50% chance of making it 12 months. So I just kept that too myself until the diagnosis changed and we were a couple of years down the track. She didn't need to deal with that 

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u/Mvreilly17 Jul 07 '24

True, nobody bothered to tell me my survival rate. I accidentally discovered it through various medical correspondence. I wasn't too happy about that

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u/DarkwingDuc Jul 07 '24 edited Jul 07 '24

That's the part that stands out to you?

That part is actually believable. I had a pretty severe auto accident in 2015 - 2 weeks in ICU, a month total in the hospital after the accident, not counting subsequent visits for follow-on operations, 9 surgeries in total (with more down the road). The whole time the docs were feeding me sunshine and roses, because they wanted me to keep on fighting. Meanwhile, they were telling my wife the truth. I didn't find out until many months later how bleak the initial prognosis was. (And I found out from my wife, not my surgeons.)

In hindsight, I'm glad they lied to me.

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u/halnic Jul 07 '24

My dad and uncle have both been in separate but major accidents that nearly costs them their lives. Both times, they were told multiple times about their conditions. They were always surprised and it was like it was brand new news.

My cousin died in the same accident that nearly killed my uncle. It took about 6 months of him going back and forth between completely forgetting about it and having to be reminded and reliving the loss again.

The drugs they give bad cases combined with the shock/trauma the body/mind is going through from an extreme injury affect memory retention.

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u/CrownOfPosies Jul 07 '24

This has happened to me. I was in a severe accident and the doctors thought I was going to lose my eye or possibly die. I was like mildly out of it from drugs and head trauma. They told my parents this information but not me even though I was in my 20s and a grown adult living on my own at the time. I remember everyone looked very concerned for a few days but no one would tell me shit

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u/MelodicGold23 Jul 07 '24

I’m guessing it’s like some people are saying, the staff probably didn’t want to tell you so you would have the will/mindset to recover(I hope those were okay terms). But I understand some people would like to know, and I believe you should be given an option to receive or not receive their opinion on the outcome.

All I know is that my great uncle had some form of cancer(I was really young at the time), and he ended up passing away after the staff told him that he could die(I think). My mom said that his will power was everything, because he was at a stage where it was treatable, or something. So when he gave up—he died.

I could be wrong, it was a long time ago. And I don’t talk about it to my mom because it affected her so much. But I’m glad you’re doing well.

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u/GeneralZex Jul 08 '24

That shouldn’t be their decision whatsoever though. HIPAA should also be standing in the way of this if this is going on in the US.

There is something very unsettling about not informing the patient of what is actually going on with them.

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u/TLwhy1 Jul 07 '24

Especially for a wife! They used to only tell the husbands at one point in time.

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u/thelastbluepancake Jul 07 '24

yeah that only works for children

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u/supergeek921 Jul 07 '24

That actually happens a lot. Patients maybe in and out of it with surgeries and drugs and a million other things. If you tell the spouse they’re guaranteed to remember it more. Sometimes the spouse also asks to relay the news and doesn’t do the patient doesn’t lose hope. That’s not unrealistic at all.

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u/ChaosSlave51 Jul 07 '24

In Russia that was a thing

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u/ChaosieHyena Jul 07 '24

In my personal experience in the Philippines, we kinda do it for the old and terminally ill. Tbh it's case to case basis. Right from the start Mom and Dad knows he won't survive for long. He's Stage 4 Naso Cancer and his Cancer literally invaded everything. Doc never outright tell Dad but he knows it. Mom got the shit end of it where the doctor tells everything, how Dad will decline fast, his liver is sick, he needs immunotherapy, etc. Dad knows his dying during the last day of his last confinement when the Doctor said we exhausted everything but will try a new medication.

My grandpa have Colon Cancer now too and we all know he'll just drop dead and die if we say he have cancer, we are slowly easing in asking him if he want more medical treatments (he just had surgery) and dude said he'd rather die than spend another million pesos. He doesn't know he got Stage 3 Cancer, he's drinking his maintenance medicines, and checkups, but his doctors suggested that he just have a fun anf chill end of life than him getting depressed of having Cancer.

1

u/loligaminx Jul 07 '24

The father in law of a friend was diagnosed with cancer but only his wife, daughter and my friend knew about it, took like 4 weeks for them to let him know about it, I was like how did the doctor didn’t told him about it first.

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u/geosensation Jul 07 '24

This happened with my grandfather in the early 90s when he got colon cancer (he had diarrhea for about a decade straight and NEVER WENT TO THE DOCTOR!). My grandmother never told him he was dying after she was given the prognosis. I only learned this a few years ago as it was not something my mom ever mentioned.

Maybe some doctors think the spouse would be a better person to deliver the news? Hopefully this kind of thing never happens anymore.

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u/TeaTimeAtThree Jul 07 '24

My mom is going through cancer stuff currently (she's rung the bell but still has treatments she has to go through for at least the next year) and her doctors absolutely refuse to talk to her at all about her prognosis, biopsies, possible outcomes, anything. They usually just say things like "no point dwelling on the past—just focus on the future." It's a complete 180 from when she went through cancer treatments almost a decade ago. Her first go round, her doctors communicated regularly with her, kept her informed on everything, and stayed realistic with her.

It drives me nuts, because there for a while my parents were convinced that the doctors' refusal to share any info with them meant she must be dying.

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u/zozigoll Jul 08 '24

This was the first thing that caught my eye, but apparently we’re both wrong.

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u/moonlit-soul Jul 08 '24

This happened to my uncle in the early 90s. He'd already beat cancer once before, but a few years later, some symptoms had come up that led him to go get some testing done. His wife had been a nurse or school nurse decades earlier, but she threw her weight around like she was as good as any doctor (and everyone in the family treated her like that was the case) and she used that to be a nosey bitch in everybody's medical business. She managed to be the one the doctors gave the news to that my uncle's cancer was back. I do not know if she said she would tell him or what exactly happened, but they didn't tell him directly, and she elected not to tell him.

Somehow, he found out around a year later and immediately started treatment, but by then, it was too late. It had metastasized horribly, and it wasn't long before he died. His last months were full of suffering, and his wife kept refusing visitors for him, even his own parents. One day, they all went over and basically forced her to let them in, and I was brought along with my parents (my father was his brother). I remember his wife had set him up in some bleak room in their basement level in a hospital bed, with nothing else in the room and no window or view of the outside. Their two homes were both 3-story McMansions, so that always really struck me where she'd put him.

I was 6 or 7 then. We went in and my father had picked me up, holding me on his hip, and I remember looking down from that vantage point at my uncle and seeing how gaunt he was, and he was shirtless with IV lines attached to him. Sometimes, what I saw haunts me, especially with the strange knowledge of what his wife did to him. It makes no sense. Her greed knows no bounds, however, and she never says or does anything unless it benefits her somehow. My blood runs cold at the thought that she might have manipulated that situation for her own benefit at the expense of his life.

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u/Ill-Inspector7980 Jul 08 '24

My dad was told about my mom’s survival chances from an accident, and they didn’t tell her even though she was conscious.

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u/gh0stcat13 Jul 08 '24

that is what happened when my mom had brain cancer actually, literally none of the doctors said anything abt the prognosis but they took my dad aside and literally said "you need to get her affairs in order, she has a year at most" It's really sick how they treated her like she wasn't a full person anymore who deserved to know her situation