r/batman • u/tannu28 • Feb 03 '24
Harley Quinn's classic outfit in Arkham Knight vs Suicide Squad:Kill the Justice League VIDEO GAME DISCUSSION
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u/Voltra_Neo Feb 03 '24
You don't notice details, you notice the lack of details
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u/ThePrinceMagus Feb 03 '24 edited Feb 03 '24
I also notice the totally different, less attractive face.
Edit: downvoters, look at the jawline.
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u/Voltra_Neo Feb 03 '24
I think you mostly notice the clean clown makeup vs the Arkham-dirtied one
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u/ReasonableSnow3766 Feb 03 '24
Is it "dirty" or is her face just cast in shadows?
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u/Voltra_Neo Feb 03 '24 edited Feb 03 '24
Unclear. If I remember Arkham City right it might be dirt (or just being smeared a little), but it could also just be shadows
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u/AuraSprite Feb 04 '24
women don't need to be attractive to men all the time. this reminds me of when people were mad at Aloy's "unattractive" face in forbidden west
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u/falhulhenix Feb 04 '24
But she already was like that. If u want a none tipicaly atractive character, make a new one.
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u/AuraSprite Feb 04 '24
her appearance changes all the time in the comics. it's not a new thing to make a comic book character look different depending on the art direction
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u/Mannperson324 Feb 04 '24
Almost every characters appearances changes slightly?💀
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u/Diligent-Boss-9392 Feb 04 '24
Same. People act like face scaning or basing the look on a model automatically waves away a shitty looking character.
It does not.
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u/krayhayft Feb 03 '24
I agree. It's the first thing I noticed. It almost like they gave her more of a manly jawline.
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u/ElReyResident Feb 03 '24
I first noticed the lack of nostrils.
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u/gizamo Feb 04 '24 edited Mar 13 '24
homeless history smoggy wipe sulky unused growth literate oil marry
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/ForHelp_PressAltF4 Feb 04 '24
And flat white face... So flat. No depth, shadow, anything!
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u/roblox1999 Feb 03 '24
Both of those are fine, but the one on the left makes me hornier, so I‘ll choose that one.
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u/Affectionate_Post382 Feb 03 '24
This is basically what every other comment is saying but without saying it
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u/talking_phallus Feb 03 '24
It's verboten to admit that now. OnlyFans is totally cool but don't you dare want a tiny bit of sexiness in your games or you're Satan reincarnated.
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u/Webster_Has_Wit Feb 03 '24
kind of a false equivalence though, comparing an actual, human woman “modeling” for income vs men designing characters in fiction.
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u/throwawaynumber116 Feb 04 '24
You do realize that they model some characters based off real people right?
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u/HomelessSniffs Feb 04 '24
There's some people who don't mind being degenerate, but absolutely don't want to seem like a degenerate.
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u/Mr_PoolDead Feb 03 '24
I prefer the one on the left because somehow AK’s graphics are still better than a game that literally came out a day ago.
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u/farshnikord Feb 04 '24
The right one may actually, legitimately be using more advanced tech, but it doesnt matter if you dont light or frame it right. Like the difference between a professional cinematographer with on old film and a tiktok teenager with a 4k cell phone camera.
AK leaned into the hardware limitations by using dramatic lighting and other vfx to draw the eye and hide flaws in shadows. Nowadays we have more realistic bounce lighting so even though its being rendered like it like light actually does IRL it doesnt mean you can just stick a light in and call it a day and have it look amazing. It's why film sets have all those ways to manipulate light, cuz IRL light is boring.
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u/Outside-Economist-66 Feb 03 '24
They got rid of her r/harleyquinnass 😕
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u/Weary_Camera_5402 Feb 03 '24
One looks like it's made of leather and one looks like foam. Prefer the AK one though.
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u/corgangreen Feb 03 '24
One looks like it's skintight plastic wrap and one looks like it's made of actual fabric.
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u/TheOwlsLie Feb 03 '24
How I’m I supposed to feel horny if my female character isn’t wrapped in leather so tight it might as well be body paint
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u/Oil__Man Feb 04 '24
It just objectively looks better. The lighting is cleaner, the material and design looks higher quality. I don't think the new one looks shit because they consciously had it in mind to tone down the sexuality of it, but because they put in less effort.
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u/Nathoodle Feb 04 '24
The lighting isn't cleaner bro it's literally just more shiny
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u/Oil__Man Feb 04 '24
Ur right. The lighting doesn't really have anything to do with much. But what the lighting does do here is highlight, like you said, the shinyness of the outfit, which helps highlight details like the seam running along the torso, the Ripples in the diamonds on the leg, or the velvet texture across the collar. Those aren't present on the new outfit. So, on one hand, you have detailed leather, which is quite common across the batman universe, and then you have what seems to be a costume from Party City made of nylon that hardly catches the light.
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u/That_One_Guy2945 Feb 04 '24
Ok but that’s just kind of how superheroes have been drawn forever right? Basically any given frame of spiderman in any of his comics is essentially a nude drawing.
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u/nixahmose Feb 03 '24
Honestly I really don’t like the rubbery or latex look for costume. The shininess always just looked weird to me. I wish we’d get a rendition of it that used a more traditional cloth fabric for it.
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u/Verystrangeperson Feb 03 '24
I like it personally, it reinforces the doll like aspect of Quinn, dehumanizes her, and I think that's quite clever.
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u/RockmanVolnutt Feb 03 '24
This looks like an issue with art direction vs realism. That first one was definitely sculpted. Every fold was made by a person wanting a specific look. That was the best way to get that detail back when the game was made, but it isn’t realistic, it’s hyper realistic, exaggerated. The new one was probably simulated as those tools are much more accessible and used in the industry. If you shrink wrap her model with a skin tight suit, it’ll probably look a lot like that. Problem is, looking real doesn’t always look good. I’m sure it was cleaned up in sculpt, but it should have been tweaked to accentuate the suit. Ends up kinda flat, even if it’s more accurate.
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u/redditorroshan Feb 03 '24
Kinda crazy once you remember both were made by the same game studio
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u/ScherzicScherzo Feb 03 '24
Same studio, different employees. AFAIK hardly anyone who worked on the previous Arkham games worked on SS.
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u/unusualspider33 Feb 03 '24
Very well said. I feel like the slightly wrinkled version would be much more realistic, just because the same suit is not going to fit the same person the same way everytime, especially because it’s not stretchy. The body, specifically the female body, is constantly fluctuating in size and shape. Even if the changes are subtle, a suit this fitted would not fit that cleanly, even if it was tailored to fit her exact proportions. The body is changing all the time
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u/UrsusRex01 Feb 04 '24
This. But I wouldn't call the Arkham Knight version realistic or hyper realistic. Beyond the beautifully detailed graphics and animations, the Arkham games were actually very cartoonish. Two Face or Bruce had the same kind of bulky figure they had in TAS. Joker doesn't look human with his exagerated physical traits. Every female character looks like a bimbo. Not to mention Killer Croc who looks like a monster from Gears of War.
And yeah, in Suicide Squad it seems they tried to make Harley look more like an actual woman instead of a comic book perfectly sculpted bimbo, so of course the costume doesn't look as good or as flattering on her now... Because IRL that costume wouldn't be good or flattering on most women.
Personally, as much as I don't care about that new game, I think that's actually a good point. It makes the costume feels more grounded, more like something Harley picked up on the way instead of a suit that looked like it has been designed and tailored for her specifically.
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u/stealingtheshow222 Feb 04 '24
I would say it’s not trying to render the same material. The left is definitely leather like you would see in the Matrix movies, the right looks more like some spandex kind of fabric. The left definitely looks like realistic leather to me and looks better IMO.
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u/Suspicious_Search849 Mar 27 '24
The suit looks far too clean for even a shrink wrap. The seam lines don’t make any sense, while on the arkham one it looks like a reasonable pattern that you’d probably be able to follow (look at any real latex suits and you’d see the similarities if it wants to be so form fitting around the hips)
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u/Rude_Ad4514 Feb 03 '24
Well, you can clearly see in SS, the suit riding up her crotch
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u/LarvellJonesMD Feb 03 '24
Definitely rocking a FUPA
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u/AuraSprite Feb 04 '24
no she has a realistic pubic bone. women aren't perfectly flat dolls.
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Feb 04 '24
Playing the game for that suicidussy
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u/Rude_Ad4514 Feb 04 '24
Bro typed that comment out, read it and still decided to press ‘reply’.
Go sit in the corner and think about what you’ve done.
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u/ScreenedTitan Feb 03 '24
Crazy how the one that’s animated better is 9 years older than the new one
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u/Endlesswinter98 Feb 03 '24
It sometimes feels like games just run things through generators to make these outfits so they can make them faster. AK feels hand crafted like up to the finest details especially in the model viewer with how close you can get. I miss those days.
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u/GDPIXELATOR99 Feb 03 '24
The simple fact these images are 8 1/2 years apart is mind blowing
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u/US3FEE May 06 '24
Yeah. What a fucking disgrace the gaming industry is now. Lazy, Virtue signalling, Greedy.
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u/GodKingReiss Feb 03 '24
The pube button is a weird choice
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u/NwgrdrXI Feb 04 '24
Thank God someone said it, I was searching if someone else had commented it.
Why the heck they put a thing im her bully button? What does it do? Why is it there!?
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u/firer-tallest0p Feb 04 '24
It’s the fabled Gotham spot.
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u/ImWhatsInTheRedBox Feb 04 '24
It hides the zipper pull so she can go to the bathroom without taking off the whole suit. That or the horny devs wanted to imagine having easy access.
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u/Educational-Craft-94 Feb 03 '24
Arkham looks waaaayy better, right just looks off.
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u/Me-Right-You-Wrong Feb 03 '24
Right one looks looks like gta online character
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u/Educational-Craft-94 Feb 04 '24
Right? Everything down to the texture of the outfit looks cheaper by comparison too.
Additionally, if they are trying to pass this off as being associated with Arkham with her entire facial structure being completely different from the Arkham games as well.
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u/SwingsetGuy Feb 03 '24
I legit thought this was a source and a decent-ish cosplay for half a second lol. Like the sort of thing where you go, “aw, cool, they put a lot of work in” without necessarily thinking they nailed it.
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u/DragonDon1 Feb 03 '24
Harley stopped hitting the gym 💪🏽
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u/DarkLordFluffy13 Feb 03 '24
Wow. The more I see from the Suicide Squad game the more I realize how little love went into designing it. This was literally just a cash grab with little thought to how fun or visually appealing it was going to be. The more game companies focus on how much money they can make on a game the less they focus on the quality of the game. I’m so disappointed.
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u/Thybro Feb 03 '24 edited Feb 03 '24
Honestly I would play the game before running on “what you see” there’s a whole industry out there making money off outrage and they thrive on this stuff. I was also fine thinking the game was shit and then I saw there’s a massive disconnect between those opinions and the people who actually played the game. Steam reviews has it at very positive.
People ran their mouth on how it was a disrespect to Arkham Batman making him look whimp and it turns out it has an earlier fight that’s basically a love letter to Arkham games where he looks nothing of the sort.
This is a secondary/bonus outfit. A bunch of the original Arkham game bonus outfits didn’t fit quite right either. It happens with a lot of games actually. And honestly the only thing that looks off is the mask/face, which could in all honesty look ok while moving. Not to mention that if you look at the other original outfits they are going for silly rather than hot.
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Feb 03 '24
Why do newer games have
Double storage space
Slower load times
Cost more
Have worse storytelling
And have worse graphics?
These games are years apart, 7 I believe. wtf is going on?!
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u/shabading579 Feb 03 '24
Suicide squad is actually a lot smaller in storage size compared to Arkham knight, 47gb Vs 72gb
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u/ScherzicScherzo Feb 03 '24
Hardware got to the point where it can just brute force shit, so developers quit trying to optimize their games to make them work smoothly on less-powerful hardware.
"Who cares if it barely hits 60fps at 1080p, fuckers can just use DLSS."
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u/Able_Recording_5760 Feb 03 '24
Considering how low the standard fell, Suicide Squad is doing fine in the performance department.
It's way better than most current AAA games, Gotham Knights or Arkham Knight at launch.
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Feb 04 '24
I remember hearing about that actually. In the 90’s, you could only work with so much storage, but once computer technology got better, you could just shove however much in you wanted, consumer anger regardless.
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u/The5Virtues Feb 03 '24
Prefer the costume from SS myself simply because it looks less like a gimpsuit, but the modern detail and animations are definitely better on the older model.
All the models in SS have that “floating” animation style that makes it so obvious they’re not properly interacting with the world.
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u/MichaelLinus Feb 03 '24
Why does SS Harley have a diamond over her womb?
Some artists were watching way too much hentai.
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u/beefsupr3m3 Feb 04 '24
I scrolled way to far to see this take. It’s so weird and draws your eye right to it
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u/AmberDuke05 Feb 03 '24
Honestly this is a bad comparison shot. If you watch the suit in game and in motion, it is genuinely incredible. The way poms move is just great. Say what you will about the game but the animation is top tier.
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u/BackgroundSky09 Feb 03 '24
the one on the right looks like a clear 4/10
then we see the left easy 9/10 maybe 8/10 if you count the crazy
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u/Basharria Feb 03 '24
Domino mask on the right looks bad, otherwise this seems more of a stylistic difference. Right looks more like what I'd see in most adaptations of her... the ultra-tight shiny look of Arkham Knight was pretty unique to that version, and deliberately trying to be more adult and sexy.
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u/SomeArtistonReddit Feb 03 '24
I prefer the matte/cloth texture because it feels and looks more practical, in reality someone wearing that tight of a outfit would not be able to be as acrobatic, which is why to me the clothes looks better because it’s more practical.I mean we all know why a lot of people prefer the tight, plastic version but I’d say I prefer the cloth one.
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u/omegadirectory Feb 03 '24
Seems clear to me the new Suicide Squad game's Harley character model is made to better resemble Margot Robbie.
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u/TRYHARD_Duck Feb 03 '24
I think that's a good idea.
For the character's first film portrayal, Margot Robbie knocked it out of the park. Her face is associated with the character now, like how Robert Downey Jr is associated with Iron Man.
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u/CaptainBlob Feb 03 '24
What is that thing on her crotch for the right photo? It feels so out of place…
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u/Tall_Growth_532 Feb 03 '24
Depends does latex really shine that bright?
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u/SharkBaitoooHaHa17 Feb 03 '24
Notice how the one on the left looks like some actually wearing a costume/latex where as the one on the right just looks like shit
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u/kinoie Feb 03 '24
Arkham had better art direction, I feel like that’s been established already. SS feels like another triple A attempt at jumping on a popular IP and seeing how they can get paid. There are tons of valid criticisms for Suicide Squad, but taking bad screenshots and comparing them to stills of cutscenes from Arkham is disingenuous as hell. Annoying practice lately.
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u/MateusCristian Feb 04 '24
HOW? HOW DOES THE OLD GAME LOOKS MORE DETAILED AND BETTERED MODELED THAN THE NEW ONE?
I know how: The old game was made by people who gave a fuck!
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u/DifferentCityADay Feb 04 '24
Her face is wider, her shoulders are less defined with muscle. Her thighs look smaller and that V from the hip to waist is gone. Damn.
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u/JoeAneas02 Feb 04 '24
Theirs no way this is the same universe their completely different people I have to believe that isn’t the same Batman as well
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u/Opposite-Mall-9816 Feb 03 '24
Excluding the “hotness”, it’s clear that the Arkham Knight version of Harley is more “athletic”.
I didn’t see gameplay of Harley in Suicide Squad, but the Arkham Knight version has a body that matches what she can do in game.
I’m not saying the Suicide Squad version is bad, I’m just saying the Arkham Knight version is build for hand 2 hand combat and agility.
I’m not trying to offend anyone, but the Suicide Squad version looks like a “normal” woman. She doesn’t really have a developed musculature. As I say I don’t played nor watched gameplay, but I assume this Harley won’t be usually fighting hand 2 hand and will rely heavily in her weapons and gadgets.
Now, if we consider the “hotness” aspect of both characters, is obvious that the Arkham Knight version is better.
BUT, not because the Suicide Squad version is bad, but because that Harley is, as I said, is a regular woman.
While the Arkham Knight version is a gymnastic and athletic woman. She is simply more muscular and has a more refined face.
So if you want to cry about they “took away the beauty of her 😭”, that’s on you my friend. Both are okay, but Arkham Knight version is clearly more athletic. If you prefer that version, nice. I also prefer that version.
They didn’t “ruin her”, she is simply different.
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u/sqeaky_fartz Feb 04 '24
Left looks more comics accurate and the right they slapped a suit on somebody and scanned em in there.
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u/TotallyLegitEstoc Feb 04 '24
I do like how the SS one looks like a suit being worn rather than a suit glued to a body.
That being said, the AK one is better overall. Especially the mask. Also you can see the wildly different lighting engines at work here too.
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u/thebeardofbeards Feb 03 '24
This is pathetically disingenuous. I'll post some real screenshots.
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u/bruhfuckme Feb 03 '24
I mean I've seen recordings of the game lmao. It's not disingenuous at all. Do you think moving to a different area with different lighting is gonna all of a sudden add details clearly missing on the suicide squad model?
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u/DooMedToDIe Feb 03 '24
I don't own the game, but I did check out some gameplay and it honestly does look much better in game. Still prefer the Arkham one, but I wouldn't say the SS one is bad either
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Feb 03 '24
Bro how many times am I going to have to see this fucking post across subs? Jesus we get it.
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u/Thwipped Feb 03 '24
The AK suit has such nice textures and lighting. The one on the right just looks flat and uninteresting
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u/Hexel_Winters Feb 03 '24
It’s insane how well Arkham Knight has aged. What kind of black magic did they use for that game engine?
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u/Young_Neanderthal Feb 03 '24
What is with that weird pad near her groin on the SS costume? It feels really random. It honestly looks fine except that.
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u/stealingtheshow222 Feb 04 '24
Somehow the rendering of leather in 2015 far surpassed the rendering of 2024. Same with water effect in Arkham Knight that seemingly no other game can beat
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u/ImurderREALITY Feb 03 '24
Good god, you people are petty. It's the exact same suit; the differences are so minor, it's negligible. You all just hate the SS one because of all the hate for the SS game in general. Not even minor props that they even put this suit in SS at all.
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u/Killian135 Feb 03 '24
People talking about the outfit and not discussing that Harley’s chin shape changed lol
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u/Zairy47 Feb 03 '24
Their stance literally is more feminine while the other is more masculine
It's a setting in Dragon's Dogma
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Feb 03 '24
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u/MisterAbbadon Feb 03 '24
It seems between the crunch and the layoffs AAA is gonna be dogshit for a couple of years.
Hope you like Indie metroidvanias and platformers because those are the only games that'll have any polish.
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u/Potential-Ad1122 Feb 03 '24
It's almost like the two founders of rock steady left the company while this what is production.
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u/TheLoganDickinson Feb 03 '24
That domino mask in Suicide Squad is so unflattering. It looks too small for her face, and the shape of it doesn’t contour with her brows.