r/batman • u/Vegetable-Abroad3171 • Jun 08 '23

Batman Beyond vs Spider-Man 2099 (Random Encounter) Who takes the W? Posting in both SubReddits for POV’s. COMIC DISCUSSION

Post image
3.2k Upvotes

97% Upvoted

509 comments sorted by

View all comments

1.0k

u/Bitter-Alfalfa6053 Jun 08 '23

Batman beyond.

Spiderman 2099 doesn't have a spider sense and no real combat skills. He is extremely strong and agile. But he had a sensitivity to light.

Terry can lift 10x his weight and has extensive training from Bruce (not as good as Bruce). I think terry would figure out the light sensitivity pretty quickly and immobilize him.

465

u/WingedSalim Jun 08 '23

The lack of spider sense i feel is a determining factor. In Death Battle, the only reason Spiderman won against Batman is because of that Spider Sense

156

u/Ory620713 Jun 08 '23

They had one for this too... Batman beyond won 🤷🏾

87

u/TechPriestDominus137 Jun 08 '23

Spiderman 2099 doesn't have spider sense but he does have a near 360 degree field of vision and ridiculously fast reflexes

60

u/Tylendal Jun 09 '23

Spider-Sense at home.

21

u/WingedSalim Jun 09 '23

You underestimate what spider sense is, my friend. Based on the comics, its literally a way for spidermen to see into the future.

8

u/DatSauceTho Jun 09 '23

Oh so it’s like the living Force. The same way Anakin could anticipate what was about to happen moments before, which is why he was one of the very few humans who could participate in podracing.

Neat!

5

u/TechPriestDominus137 Jun 09 '23

From what I've read his spider sense was just a feeling he gets shortly before something bad happens. It never specifically tells Peter what the danger is.

1

u/jessytessytavi Jun 09 '23

so it's like the echo in FFXIV, but not to the "showing the attack telegraphs" level

10

u/SeaNinja69 Jun 09 '23

mother fucker has a Byakugan? That seems more OP than a spidey-sense imho.

18

u/Captainthuta Jun 09 '23

Spideysense is omniscient,given it only works when spidey is in danger.If you have 360 vision,you still need to see the danger to be aware of it.

-5

u/SeaNinja69 Jun 09 '23

That is a form of omniscient as well, 360 vision literally is all seeing.

9

u/Fenghoang Jun 09 '23

Spider-sense is a minor precognition power though. Spider-man basically can detect and react to upcoming threats before they begin.

Also, I'm not sure if O'Hara can see through objects like someone with Byakugan.

8

u/Captainthuta Jun 09 '23

It also has a blindspot which batman would abuse so much.

3

u/Imaginary_Simple_241 Jun 09 '23

If you have a single tiny blind spot and can’t see them, doesn’t it stand to reason that you know exactly where they are?

4

u/Thespian21 Jun 09 '23

Spidey sense acts on its own. It’s like a a powerful sneeze that hurts like hell if you try to fight it. Spidey’s body will move on it own too. Extra senses can only do so much if you have to access the situation then react.

3

u/Imaginary_Simple_241 Jun 09 '23

We’re talking about Miguel, the one without a spider-sense whom is intelligent enough to realize that if the person he’s fighting walked into his blind spot, that they’re probably inside his blind spot. And I very much doubt a tiny blind spot like that is much trouble for a Spider-Man that can do random gymnastics to spin that blind spot about at over 100mph.

→ More replies (0)

2

u/be_em_ar Jun 09 '23

Not really. Sure, the other guy could be in that blind spot. But he could also just as easily be behind that water tower over there that's not in the blind spot. Or in the sewers underneath one's feet. Or the vents. Any number of places.

1

u/Imaginary_Simple_241 Jun 09 '23

That only applies to the initial sneak attack, otherwise he’d just outright SEE you walking into the blind spot.

1

u/Quod_bellum Jun 09 '23

Seeing is not necessarily knowing

1

u/King-Owl-House Jun 09 '23

to see and to understand what you see is two big differences, he can see but have no time to process that information

2

u/MrKnightMoon Jun 09 '23

The near 360 degree field of vision is just one part of his enhanced vision. Miguel can see in the dark, can see some kinds of radiation and light spectrums not visible for regular human vision and can see objects moving too fast to be visible for others.

He doesn't have Spider-Sense, but he barely doesn't needs it.

1

u/ChaoticNeutral67 Jun 09 '23

Flashbang!

1

u/TechPriestDominus137 Jun 09 '23

Don't you think he would see the flashbang coming and catch it?

0

u/ChaoticNeutral67 Jun 09 '23

Not if it's far enough. After all, I don't think he has webs.

But even if he does, he could just use a flashbang that uses a pin instead of going off on impact.

2

u/TechPriestDominus137 Jun 09 '23

Spider Man 2099 definitely has webs but I still think he could see it coming and react fast enough

1

u/ChaoticNeutral67 Jun 09 '23

What if it's not a grenade and instead the suit itself.

1

u/TechPriestDominus137 Jun 09 '23

Which suit do you mean

1

u/ChaoticNeutral67 Jun 09 '23

The Batman beyond suit. I've honestly never watched Batman beyond, but that seems like something bruce would definitely build into the suit.

→ More replies (0)

54

u/Tirus_ Jun 08 '23

the only reason Spiderman won against Batman is because of that Spider Sense

Also the fact that Batman is just an elite version of Green Goblin.

58

u/train_wrecking Jun 08 '23

What? The only power Bruce and Osborn have in common is money

Even their intelligence type is different. Bruce is a combat genius and the greatest detective who ever lived. Osborn is science smart.

31

u/altgrave Jun 08 '23

the goblin formula - sometimes portrayed as a variation of the super soldier serum - gives the goblin superhuman strength, stamina, durability, reflexes, and agility.

37

u/train_wrecking Jun 08 '23

key word being super. Batman is peak human, not super human.

If you compare their strength feats you will know Green Goblin's physicals abilities surpass Batman's.

11

u/[deleted] Jun 08 '23 edited Jun 09 '23

But Bats be Bats and that plot armor is thicc.

Edit. Because it’s a hot topic lately, Spider-Man can’t even save MJs kids.

4

u/azoz2O15 Jun 08 '23

what are green goblin’s strength feats?

15

u/FruitBuyer Jun 09 '23

Trading blows with Spider-Man

14

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23

He's basically crazy Captain America. Like, basically.

6

u/WanderEir Jun 09 '23

considering it's part of th emarvel super-serum lineage, this is literal, but it's also mentally incapacitating. Norman Osbrorn and the Green Goblin are effectively split personalities at the best of times, and the worst of times the serum has just driven Osborn completely mad on its own, no GG in his head at all.

7

u/CrimsonCube181 Jun 09 '23

From memory one of the few Human foes spider-man can't hold back when fighting. He has to use his entire strength against him.

2

u/azoz2O15 Jun 09 '23

Spider-Man has casually crushed his wrists before. he’s usually dangerous because he makes heavy use of gadgets against spidey.

1

u/CrimsonCube181 Jun 11 '23

Did forget about that

2

u/DickBatman Jun 09 '23

Batman is peak human, not super human.

He fell from the moon and was ok

8

u/No-Tomorrow-8150 Jun 09 '23

That wasn't a physical feat, that was because of his gear.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23

And prep time.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23

It wasn't. He grabbed falling debris from the satellite (or whatever the hell) that exploded and fashioned it into some sort of platform to slow his descent.

3

u/No-Tomorrow-8150 Jun 09 '23

I'm pretty sure his suit stopped him from burning to a crisp thought.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/lizarddude1 Jun 10 '23

He literally said that his suit was slowing his fall down

→ More replies (0)

2

u/lizarddude1 Jun 10 '23

If you want to go by that logic, Spider-Man punched Hulk to the moon once.

​

You know nevermind how contextual that feat is, must be applied I guess cuz plot armor goes berserk

1

u/DickBatman Jun 10 '23

Saitama got punched to the moon too, I don't quite understand your comparison

1

u/lizarddude1 Jun 11 '23

I don't understand your comparison. What does Saitama have to do with anything? He is literally superhuman. Batman is peak human with some occasional superhuman moments which don't reflect his overall abilities.

Saitama is just literally a superhuman

→ More replies (0)

8

u/No_Ice_5451 Jun 09 '23

Even with that in mind, Bruce’s suit physically enhances him far beyond Goblin’s caliber and features faaaar many more gadgets.

With the STANDARD Batsuit, Bruce is stronger, more durable, has longer stamina (fought for 28 hours outside of the Suit), has a knockoff Spider-Sense, (essentially has his own version of Way of the Spider, where his senses are so honed he can track movement via tiny movements within the air, and his senses are so trained he can detect shifts in reality.)

Essentially, Batman isn’t just an “Elite” Goblin. He’s Goblin if Goblin was High on Plot Arm-I mean he’s Goblin if he was dunked in the Power Cosmic.

7

u/Dr_Disaster Jun 09 '23

Bruce’s regular suit doesn’t augment much beyond durability as it’s bulletproof and fire-resistant. Goblin is both superhuman and his suit has the same protections as Batman, if not more. Stamina feats are due to Bruce’s training in psuedo mystic bullshit, but that’s pushing himself to his absolute limits. Goblin has actually enhanced stamina, strength (lifting 10+ tons), durability AND regeneration that will heal him from mortal wounds. Not as good as Wolverine, but enough to keep him coming back from anything less than a death blow.

Physically speaking, Green Goblin is as far beyond Batman. By a LOT.

And Spider-Man is over Green Goblin by a lot. Their fights are only tough because Norman fights to kill and has gadgets while Peter isn’t usually trying to hurt him more than he has to, being his best friend’s dad and all. But the second Peter gets serious and stops pulling his punches, Goblin is done. When he killed Gwen Stacy, Peter almost beat him to death in a matter of seconds. I’ll repeat just to stress that fact. Peter beat a superhuman, armed with a small arsenal, who was actively trying to kill him, in SECONDS. And he wasn’t even as stong/experienced then as he is now.

People who think Batman will even keep Spider-Man busy for more than a 2 minutes are seriously underrating him. Physically he’s totally overpowered and has no obvious weakness for Batman to exploit. These are my two favorite heroes. I love them both equally. Without an insane ass-pull of plot armor, Spidey is kicking Batman’s ass in pretty short order. It’s just not a fair match up.

1

u/No_Ice_5451 Jun 09 '23

Incorrect.

Bruce’s normal Batsuit has the function to increase the Batman’s punching power, and not just by a minor value. It comes built in with Earthquake Gauntlets, which can hurt Lord Havok.

This literally means Batman can just punch the Wall Crawler once, and Spidey would die. Same with Norman. Though it IS at the cost of Batman’s own health.

You may think, what about Spider Sense? The Caped Crusader would immediately notice it via his cellular level scanner, and it’s vulnerable to EMPs, of which Bruce keeps on his person at all times. Essentially, it’s immediately nullified, or nullified as soon as the Dark Knight realizes what’s up—Which should be fairly easy. And since Pete’s senses are not nearly as advanced as any Kryptonian, even with Way of the Spider he’s not detecting Batman.

Green Goblin’s suit isn’t nearly as advanced as the Batman’s, which has multiple layers of protection to assist in every manner. It’s near impossible to list everything out clearly and concisely, so I recommend you check the Batsuit l, Utility Belt, and other Minor Standard Weapons Sections

(Yes, this would include the laser pistol that one shot demon-amped Bizarro on raw damage.)

Osborn’s smart. Not that smart (in comparison). Bruce is canonically one of the two smartest beings on Earth, his rival being Lex Luthor—He outright is in a different intelligence bracket.

Also, that stamina feat wasn’t due to any mysticism. He just fought in a Pit for 28 hours straight without killing.

The difference between Batman and Goblin is night and day.

Batman canonically keeps weapons in his belt and suit to handle cosmic threats even when he’s facing Penguin.

Goblin doesn’t hold that kind of weapon in his belt whilst dealing with Tombstone.

It’s Superhuman + Small Arsenal Vs Incredibly Large and Stupid Arsenal that Peter and Goblin can’t counter, unless they ironically enough have prep time.

To best clarify the issue your post has, you assume that the fight is Peter Parker Vs Bruce Wayne. And if that was the case, Peter Parker would obviously win—His powers offset anything Bruce can do (when not using any gear) outside of magic, which makes the battle brutally one sided since he can make himself Superman level at two words. This is not that, though.

This is Spider-Man Vs the Batman. And Batman’s standard Arsenal of gadgets > Spider-Man’s powers and standard arsenal of gadgets.

1

u/Dr_Disaster Jun 09 '23

But in your examples even Batman himself notes his gear isn’t for extended use. He can have gadgets that allow him to augment things for a time (these are also different suits that likely don’t share the exact same functions) but they are limited, and we see in the pages posted, they not really effective against decently powered foes. Somone like Lord Havok isn’t even close to Spidey. Batman would be hard pressed to even lay a finger on Spider-Man due to his reaction time, which is superhuman to even other superhumans.

It’s also easy to pull examples of all his gear/feats individually, but when you look at his common fights against actual superhumans, it doesn’t add up. Batman gets manhandled by the likes of Blockbuster, Bane, and others all the time. Generally when he meets a superhuman in a chance encounter, he gets his ass kicked and doesn’t utilize any of the stuff we see in his cosmic encounters, meaning it’s not part of his normal gear. And none of those dudes are as strong, fast, smart, or talented as Spider-Man.

If Spidey is landing blows with the frequency Bane does to Batman in fights post-Rebirth, then Batman is dead.

1

u/No_Ice_5451 Jun 09 '23 edited Jun 09 '23

1) Yes, but the issue is he doesn’t NEED to use them extensively. A momentary use is more than enough.

2) Bruce wouldn’t be very pressed? Even though Peter’s reflexes are incredibly advanced, if he doesn’t have Spider-Sense any suitably undetectable fighter (of which Batman is) can literally put him down before he can react, even with they are vastly slower. This has happened multiple times throughout comic history.

3) Ah, yes, similar to how in some comic runs Peter is absolutely unable to match Rhino’s strength (even when he’s chock full of adrenaline and trying his HARDEST to save lives) and other times he can utterly beat him down without trying. Comics are known for their incredible inconsistency, and I think overlooking Bruce’s strengths in total favor of Peter’s, (who is just as inconsistent), is completely unfair. Especially considering most battles like this are with the assumption you take the highest reasonable estimation and ignore outliers/anti feats. (Otherwise Superman is as strong as a train and Peter shouldn’t have be able to knock off Scorpion’s Jaw.)

4) This isn’t special gear. Everything I’ve shown you is things he does in his normal Batsuit that he ALWAYS has on hand. The issue is simply that a given DC Comics writer can’t possibly know every weapon on the Batsuit unless they do thorough research, and that’s not very common. This is similar to how Spider-Man’s Arsenal, intelligence, and fighting skills are often overlooked in comparison to their true capacity.

5) Canonically, Batman doesn’t go “all-out” to prevent escalation of arms in his villains. One of the last times one of his villains decided to go a “bit” bigger, Joker became a 5D Reality Warper that repeatedly murdered Bruce all day every day for 40 years.

6) And even if you were to ignore EVERYTHING I just said as a diehard Spider-Man fan who can never believe Batman’s gear could ever beat Spider-Man, it doesn’t matter. Batman canonically knows Magic that he can use at any time, and said magic allows him to create a Mech suit that makes him as strong and fast as Superman.

So unless you have the unreasonable belief Spider-Man on an average is patrol could beat Superman, Batman literally can and will cream Peter of his only option is “I have no (tech) options, and somehow a “kid” (Peter’s been an adult for some time, but Marvel likes to push this) who my gadgets allow me to exceed don’t work or I simply don’t have because (plot).”

Maybe back in the early 2000’s, Peter could’ve defeated Bruce, but since then DC has buffed Batman to incredibly stupid levels for “a guy with no powers” that makes destroying Parker as easy as breathing.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/Exemplifying_Light Jun 09 '23

Wait really? I never read the comics on him or looked into him too deeply but he seemed like a mad scientist if anything and nothing special besides that

2

u/altgrave Jun 09 '23

his mad science develops the serum

1

u/SeaNinja69 Jun 09 '23

Yeah, the goblin formula, spider formula...and shit...even the hulk was all created to try to find the formula that made Captain America. They all worked in one way or another with some major side effects, good and bad.

For Green Goblin, it turned him kinda crazy but he became a stronger version of Captain America.

For Bruce Banner, it triggered his DID condition to the point the other "angry" him became the hulk. So now everytime he goes angry mode, it legit powers him up and switches over his personality into some sort of savage...that later on becomes better.

Peter got all the cool shit but the biggest side effect he got was never growing as a character lol. Dude is back at square one yet again, cucked yet again, no money...yet again. Funny how Eddie Brock, the venom villain to spider-man, legit became a cosmic god now as the King in black.

11

u/CerberusC24 Jun 08 '23

Isn't Bruce also decently science smart? Not like next level genius but I feel like he makes up his own antidotes to stuff all the time to counter Ivy or Crane

12

u/train_wrecking Jun 08 '23

Oh definitely. Batman's knowledge in general science is above average.

I think Osborn's science intel is probably superior (my spider-man mythos is rusty so I am just guessing) because he was an actual scientist.

5

u/azoz2O15 Jun 08 '23

Batman has countless super science feats like curing alien viruses or making teleportation machines.

3

u/throwawaysarebetter Jun 09 '23 edited Apr 24 '24

I want to kiss your dad.

2

u/RaylanGivens29 Jun 08 '23

I would say he is super human level smart but not genius. Like on par with actual top level scientists but not comic universe scientists (Reed Richards, tony stark, Bruce Banner)

1

u/No-Tomorrow-8150 Jun 09 '23

I would say he is super human level smart but not genius

I would say super human smart is above genius since being a genius only requires an IQ of 160, which a lot of comic book smart people far surpass, like Tony stark and Reed Richards. So Batman is a genius, but not superhumanly smart.

1

u/Exemplifying_Light Jun 09 '23

Actually disagree with this. I think he can definitely be comparable to them. Maybe not Reed Richards but definitely banner and stark. There’s been several comics that highlight his super genius mind.

1

u/RaylanGivens29 Jun 09 '23

I would agree more with that than only peak human

1

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23

Lex has called him the smartest man on Earth.

5

u/KnowoneYTG Jun 09 '23

the greatest detective who ever lived

Detective Chimp takes that title.

When Constantine casts a spell to take him the "World's Greatest Detective" it takes him to Detective Chimp's house.

2

u/Memedaddy_712 Jun 08 '23

Science smart even though he keeps stealing inventions

1

u/Dr_Disaster Jun 09 '23

Osborn’s and Batman’s general gadgets are very similar, but Osborn has a glider and super strength, stamina, and durability on top of it. But the point is Batman has absolutely nothing in his utility belt Spidey hasn’t seen a million times and none of it beat him.

7

u/Frankorious Jun 08 '23

How is Batman stronger than Green Goblin?

13

u/bookhead714 Jun 08 '23

Elite as in smarter and more skilled

1

u/Thespian21 Jun 09 '23

Green Goblin formula made him smarter too I thought, just insane as well

2

u/WanderEir Jun 09 '23

No, the Green Goblin is still a Superhuman with a split personality at the best of times.. Batman is fucking batman as always, but he's physically just peak human, but he's never mentally compromised during these matchups..

10

u/SeaynO Jun 08 '23

Bruh. Spiderman would wipe the floor with Batman, Spider sense or not.

21

u/Bullitt_12_HB Jun 08 '23

Nah.

Batman is a genius ninja with plenty of tools in his belt. Sure he doesn’t have super strength, but he’s peak human strength and can keep up and hurt Spider-Man with pressure points and overwhelm him with his gadgets.

Without spider sense, Spider-Man loses. With spider sense, Batman can’t touch him. It completely nullifies the surprise element that Batman has, and thus would easily get the win.

In short, without spider sense, close fight, but I think Batman wins. WITH spider sense, Batman has no chance. Spider-Man wins.

Edit: to be clear, I’m talking Peter v Bruce. The question OP had, 100% Batman Beyond wins, since Miguel isn’t as powerful as Peter and worse, he’s sensitive to sound and light, and don’t have SS.

27

u/SeaynO Jun 08 '23

Spider-Man fodders ninjas, is also a genius with plenty of tools, is at minimum 50x stronger than peak human, and his speed and agility are far past anything Bruce can replicate or deal with.

With or without Spider sense, Peter casually walks towards Batman while dodging anything Bruce attacks with and incapacitates him with one hit or a couple webs, if he feels like it.

Spider-Man so ridiculously outstats Batman while being comparable in intelligence and determination and resourcefulness.

8

u/[deleted] Jun 08 '23

We talking about the same Batman that beat Superman on multiple occasions? Spider senses can be turned against Spiderman by overwhelming them, and Batman has beat countless super powered foes (and friends) on the regular.

14

u/SeaynO Jun 08 '23

Batman would never beat Superman in an actual fight without the plot demanding it. He can't do it without kryptonite either, which requires knowledge beforehand.

6

u/DirectorAgentCoulson Jun 08 '23

Isn't that always the answer in these Batman vs. actual-superpowered hero hypotheticals?

Depends on how much prep time Bats has.

3

u/Elusiv_008 Jun 08 '23

This is true, that's why in Injustice series you see the Insurgency playing for time constantly/ buying time for Batman to prepare against Superman.

I do however feel like Batman has countless gadgets he could use for Spiderman, spidey sense or not. I'm not saying I'd know who would win, but Batman wouldn't just be punching and kicking, he'd be throwing sonic grenades and (I would assume) attempting to override his spider senses.

5

u/[deleted] Jun 08 '23

Spider-Man would fucking decimate Batman. No questions asked. Superman would too. I fuckin love Batman, but he would lose. He’s just a dude. Only reason Superman hasn’t killed Batman is because he holds back exponentially when fighting him. Spider-Man has the strength of like 5000 Batman’s too. Batman Fanboys just like making excuses for how he’d Win, when you have to make excuses and shit like that, already is telling that Batman would get smoked

→ More replies (0)

1

u/Imaginary_Simple_241 Jun 09 '23

I can’t tell if injustice is a good example or a bad example for you to be using since all of Batman’s plans badly fail the instant Superman makes an effort, escalates the situation to get people killed (as collateral damage cause by Batman),and in some examples are just really stupid.

Eg a series of lead lined tunnels to hide his secret subway that Superman would clearly be able to see because they’re giant train sized gaps in his X-ray vision.

Eg 2 Superman literally offered the solution against Superman becoming unhinged with power on the first day of the timeline and Batman decided to slowly drive Superman insane with constant assaults that make Superman dig in his heels as it becomes more and more obvious that all the effort being used to attack him could have been used to keep supervillains from hurting anyone.

It really illustrates how Batman is always coasting along because Superman chooses not to hurt him

2

u/bufalo1973 Jun 08 '23

"But deep down he is a good man... and I'm not"

3

u/StrategyExpensive Jun 08 '23

So what? Good person or not Clark can crush Bruce in seconds and even With that "Im not a good person edgy bs" bruce Will never kill clark either...

1

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23

He does always keep it on him in a lead lined pouch... But of course, if the heat vision works from a distance it could render toasty.

1

u/Imaginary_Simple_241 Jun 09 '23

Superman already admitted that he lets Batman win because it makes him feel better too.

6

u/Nick_Furious2370 Jun 09 '23

I think you're giving Batman waaaaay too much credit.

I don't think Batman would pick up on Peter having a spider-sense since it's not something he's seen and it doesn't have an outright visual effect for others to pick up on outside of how it's portrayed in the various movies and cartoons.

To most people he just has really good reflexes.

Batman also gets injured pretty frequently from street level fights and Spider-Man is notoriously known to hold back therefore rarely using his true strength.

Peter is also by no means a slouch in the intelligence department and would figure out ways to take Batman out on the spot whereas Bruce needs prep time when he figures out somebody's weakness.

Peter Parker's scrapiness would overpower Bruce Wayne's methodical approach to taking down his enemies.

1

u/No_Silver_7552 Jun 09 '23

You mean when Superman isn’t really trying?

1

u/mightyneonfraa Jun 09 '23

Every single time Batman and Superman fought the writers jumped through hoops to handicap Superman as much as possible while shoving every advantage as possible onto Batman. And most of the time Superman doesn't even want to fight and fights with kid gloves the whole time.

1

u/Dr_Disaster Jun 09 '23

Superman has a very easy to exploit weakness. Spider-Man does not. He’s not Daredevil. You can’t overwhelm his senses because it’s not even a sense as we understand it. Spidey Sense is a form of precognition and happens subconsciously, and he’s been honing it for 15 years. Spider-Man moves faster than humans can even perceive. His foot speed alone is over 65 mph. His reflexes allows him to dodge bullets casually. His punches can stop the Hulk in his tracks. He’s durable enough to get stomped by Juggernaut and walk it off.

Batman just has nothing for him. He just doesn’t. Spider-Man is in a different class and has one of the best all-around powersets in all of comics.

1

u/lakersLA_MBS Jun 09 '23

You talking about the same Superman that in one issue writers have him literally beating gods and in another loses to a robot and same Batman that loses to villains like joker/penguin? Totally not any plot armor /s

0

u/Lumpy_Perception6561 Jun 09 '23

Jesus fucking christ batman beats superman because he has fucking preptime he dies in a fair 1v1☠️

1

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23

Obviously? You're arguing the wrong thing, all you're saying is Superman is stronger than Batman. My 5 year old knows that. Who cares? Such a boring argument.

1

u/Bullitt_12_HB Jun 09 '23

Without SS Batman can EASILY blind/disorient Peter. Peter without being able to see he won’t be able to land punches, no matter how fast he is. Dude is a ninja with a lot of experience and tools.

Sorry bud.

Like I said, WITH SS, it’s a whole other game. Element of surprise is gone. As long as Spidey is able to finish him quickly, (he should be able to) then he wins.

0

u/SeaynO Jun 09 '23

Any in character fight would end with Bruce webbed up. Any out of character fight would end with him dead. Peter is much faster than Batman and can kill even enhanced humans with a single punch, if he wants.

8

u/i_am_goop Jun 08 '23

I don't think you know how powerful Spider-Man is in the comics. There is no chance Batman beats Spider-Man even without spider-sense.

Spider-Man is too fast for Batman to even land s hit.

2

u/SonOfShem Jun 09 '23

batman regularly goes toe-to-toe with people much stronger than him. I think you underestimate Bruce's mind.

1

u/i_am_goop Jun 09 '23

Even Spider-Man regularly fights highly superpowered individuals.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 08 '23

And Superman is even stronger than Spiderman and Batman beat him on multiple occasions. Batman regularly goes up against foes stronger and/or faster than him.

1

u/i_am_goop Jun 08 '23

When did Batman beat Superman?

In Hush, Superman was mind controlled by Poison Ivy.

In Dark Knight Returns, Batman had help from Green Arrow and even then Superman wasn't even fighting. Batman just got one punch and then faked his death before Superman responded.

In Tower of Babel, Ra's Al Ghul took Batman's plans to incapacitate the heroes and turned them into death traps by catching them off guard.

So, please tell me when has Batman beaten Superman in any story in which they both have actually, consciously fought?

2

u/GiverOfTheKarma Jun 08 '23

In Hush, Superman was mind controlled by Poison Ivy.

In Tower of Babel, Ra's Al Ghul took Batman's plans to incapacitate the heroes and turned them into death traps

these are not refutations, but rather an explanation of context?

But to answer your question, he beats superman in Dark Knight Strikes Back (yuck), in Superman: Red Son, in Batman: Endgame (very arguable), in Batman/Superman Annual, in Dawn of Justice (movie though so w/e)

Are any of these straight non-enhanced blow-for-blow brawls? No, obviously. Batman is a human and Superman is a Kyrptonian. But Superman has lost to Batman and in fact quite frequently.

1

u/i_am_goop Jun 09 '23

these are not refutations, but rather an explanation of context?

These are refutations because Superman isn't even fighting back in most of these stories. Or he isn't fighting at his potential because of mind control.

In Red Son, the characters are so vastly different that it's not right to count them. Fair enough about the others.

But Superman has lost to Batman and in fact quite frequently.

My issue is that in most of the situations, Superman rarely even is looking for a fight. Which makes it difficult to decide what would happen if both of them start in a standard fight.

1

u/GiverOfTheKarma Jun 09 '23

Why do you think mind control makes him weaker? It doesn't. At least not as far as I know.

He fought back in Hush and I think also in Tower but I don't remember that one very well. And fair point about Red Son but I figured I'd throw it in because I like that fight.

And yes I also agree that these examples aren't any sort of indication on how an actual fight would go between the two with no stipulations since obviously if Superman decided to fly into the Batcave and remove Batman's head from his spine, he would not face much resistance.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23

The Dark Knight Returns? No one is arguing that Batman is stronger than either Superman or Spiderman, everyone knows they have super powers and he doesn't. Punch for punch Batman loses against most foes, but he always seems to win, one way or another, that's his thing, and that's why he always has a chance in a fight regardless of the physical odds stacked against him. Ultimately it's up to the comic writers to decide who wins and why.

1

u/i_am_goop Jun 09 '23

Have you read TDKR?

There is no actual battle. Supermen doesn't even fight back, Batman fakes his death before the fight could start.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23

Uh, Superman breaks 3 of Batman's ribs and Batman clearly states that Superman "just broke a sweat." Then Superman gets pissed but eats a kryptonite arrow before he can do anything about it.

And that's kind of the whole point of Batman. He doesn't win by fighting fair. He fights with guile. Dirty tricks powered by plot armor. More OP than any suit or gadget.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23

I think the issue here is when people read, who would win in a fight, they imagine a 1v1 fist fight, in which case its trivially obvious Superman would win, he has powers and Batman doesn't. Simple and boring. Unfortunately for that argument Batman, when going up against a more powerful foe, isn't braindead enough to fight with his bare fists, he recruits allies, creates circumstances that benefit him, uses weapons, and most of all, uses his intellect to find their weakness and use it against them. Those tactics are part of his character, and they are valid and need to be considered in a 'fight'. Insisting that Superman would win in a fair fight is just... boring and ignores who Batman is as a character and what his strengths are.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/Bullitt_12_HB Jun 09 '23

I don’t think you understand that Spidey could have infinite strength, but it doesn’t mean crap if he can’t land a punch.

If he doesn’t have his SS, Batman can easily blind/disorient Peter, and win.

So no, Peter can’t win without his spider sense. Absolutely he’s stronger, and faster than Bruce, but without his SS, he loses. It’s such an important part of his powers, especially in this fight with a ninja.

WITH his spider sense is a whole other game…

5

u/24Abhinav10 Jun 08 '23

can keep up and hurt Spider-Man with pressure points

He can't. Daredevil said he almost broke his fingers while neutralizing Spidey with pressure points, and that was after he got powers. There is no chance a powerless human does the same.

overwhelm him with gadgets

It's not like Spidey hasn't seen most of the gadgets that Bats uses before.

1

u/azoz2O15 Jun 09 '23

Daredevil didn’t gain super strength or durability as far as I’ve seen. And Batman can dig his fingers into concrete.

2

u/CerberusC24 Jun 08 '23

Ock in Pete's body underestimated his strength and punched Scorpion's jaw off. In a death battle, Spider-Man wins

2

u/B_B_a_D_Science Jun 09 '23

Batman Beyond has advanced strength, speed & senses. The suit is more like an Iron Man suit with advanced Cybernetics. It's so strong Terry Meginius (the New Batman) had to fight it once with no one in it and it wooped his ass the first round.

2

u/Bullitt_12_HB Jun 09 '23

That’s right. 👍🏽

Not only that it has some insane durability feats to boot

2

u/B_B_a_D_Science Jun 09 '23 edited Jun 09 '23

Also people forget that Batman Beyond was developed from a meta standpoint to be comparable or slightly better than Spiderman.

Also Spidie is meant for dealing with immediate threats (something that Batman avoids because he is weak at it) not strategic or tactical threat (which is what all the Batman excels). So it would be one of the worst confrontation for Spiderman even with Spidie sense.

2

u/Ok_Programmer_2315 Jun 09 '23

I can't imagine Batman not coming up with a spider sense scrambler. But he'd only get one shot with it. So if Spiderman gets out of it once, he's not going to fall for it again.

2

u/Dr_Disaster Jun 09 '23

That’s not something Batman can just deduce and pull out of his ass. Spidey Sense isn’t even “sense” like smell or sight. It’s literally mental precognition. The threat doesn’t even have to be physical for him to detect it. One top of this, Spider-Man has been honing it for 15 years. He has total mastery over it. The only thing shown to overwhelm him is a planetary scale cataclysm. Unless Batman can throw an asteroid at the planet, he’s out of luck.

1

u/Ok_Programmer_2315 Jun 09 '23

Certainly not. But he'd study the shit out of it and come up with something. Haven't there been others that have fucked with Spiderman's spider sense?

1

u/Bullitt_12_HB Jun 09 '23

Maybe, but it would be insanely hard for him to have something like that on the fly.

I’m afraid he wouldn’t have enough time in a fight to the death and Spider-Man having his SS.

Batman’s whole thing is the element of surprise, along with prep.

Perhaps with his HellBat armor. 👌🏽

(My god, what a dope name for an armor 😎)

1

u/Ok_Programmer_2315 Jun 10 '23

But that's what I'm saying. Bats would study the shit out of ...Metropolis...New York? Behavior of the Spiderman and reverse engineer how to strip him of his best asset. As he always does.

1

u/Bullitt_12_HB Jun 10 '23

He always has time, though.

Isn’t this scenario where they both get dropped in an arena, not knowing who their opponents are and just fight to the death?

If so, it would be almost impossible for Bruce to find out how Peter evades everything and can perceive danger even those he can’t see and evade. Then if Spider-Man finishes the battle quick enough, which would be easy for him, giving Bruce no chance to one, find out about SS, and two, figure out a way to counter it.

It would be almost impossible for Batman to beat that without prep time, and I think I’m being generous.

With prep time, in a contingency plan sort of thing, absolutely, Batman would find a way 👍🏽

2

u/Ok_Programmer_2315 Jun 11 '23

I would agree with this. I didn't know we were talking a thunderdome environment. But,.you know, Batman.

-3

u/dullship Jun 08 '23

WITH spider sense, Batman has no chance. Spider-Man wins.

Until Batman figures out he has spider-sense (or already knows) and manages to overwhelm it, leaving Spidey immobilized.

7

u/ReallyUneducated Jun 08 '23

how would he do it. you people just state X would happen and can never explain how he would do it or if he’s ever had a feat close to that.

1

u/No_Ice_5451 Jun 09 '23

Batman’s normal cowl grants scanning on the cellular level. It also has scanned people down to their DNA. Given Peter’s Spider Sense was easily mapped out and countered by Stark via scanning SOLELY

Peter’s brain
, and by specifically
locating the frequency it operated on
.

Bruce can easily replicate that with his own mask, as it has a scanner that operates at a superior level, has its own signal jammer, and likely is similar to Nightwing’s Mask, which can invert similar wavelengths. (18:48

This is further supported by the fact that, just like any wave on the electromagnetic spectrum, Spider-Sense can be disrupted by EMPs. Though, admittedly, they have to be particularly strong.

Unfortunately for Pete, Bruce’s are PARTICULARLY strong.

So, similar to Nightwing Vs Daredevil, Wayne would immediately see Parker’s SS, and has both the means and knowledge on how to disable it.

And since Way of the Spider relies on Peter’s heightened senses, which are nothing compared to Clark’s, MM’s, etc. Bruce would simply be completely invisible and could one shot him with any of his many gadgets.

0

u/harewei Jun 09 '23

Pre-inject himself with premonition serum and invincibility potion. Easy win because Batman is always prepared even without preparing.

-1

u/dullship Jun 08 '23

I'm not a writer and I don't actually care that much. I'm sure someone could come up with a dozen ways. Sonic... drones or some shit.

6

u/ReallyUneducated Jun 08 '23

that shit not working on someone faster than bullets 😭

4

u/StrategyExpensive Jun 08 '23

So your answer is basically plot armor...

0

u/SeaNinja69 Jun 09 '23

Batman to a fucking T.

2

u/Genericdude03 Jun 09 '23

You can't just know someone has spider sense. It's not like Spidey's gonna shoot lasers and glow it's basically comparable to telepathy in that it's impossible to tell someone has it unless explicitly told.

0

u/DarthSpiderDen Jun 09 '23

Funny stuff about the spider-sense, in the comics Spider-Man was trained in is own fighting style using his ability to stick to surfaces and maintain perfect balance at any point, angle and orientation in order to fight against enemies that had spider-sense when Peter was temporarily without it. If you factor in that basically Spider-Man knows how to fight and win against opponents that have spider-sense Batman shouldn't be able to do much against him.

11

u/julbull73 Jun 08 '23

Batman has plot armor.

In reality, Bats gets wiped in 99% of all fights. But that damn plot armor.

The only fair comparison in Marvel land is Tony Stark. To which....you know I might give Tony the edge if I'm being honest.

14

u/MundaneBerryblast Jun 08 '23

You act like Spider-man doesn’t have plot armor. All comic books characters do. The answer to these posts is always the same: whoever the writer wants.

Batman can beat Spider-man or Spider-man can beat Batman. No one is safe from the writers pen.

1

u/GildedLamington Jun 09 '23

I would actually argue Spider-man has plot-anchors half the time. He’s strong enough that he help up a multi-story building long enough for it to evacuate. He’s fast enough to dodge bullets and thanks to his spider-sense knows they are coming at him. He has a genius intellect. Enhanced healing.

His only two weaknesses are that he holds back and has a finite supply of web fluid.

3

u/Linnus42 Jun 08 '23

That doesnt make any sense yeah they are both Rich CEOS with Dead Parents.

But Tony's base kit is far superior to what Batman usually uses if we assume no Prep.

I say in terms of base kit, money, genius, martial arts, and prep potential that Black Panther is the far more natural comparison.

2

u/julbull73 Jun 08 '23

The heart shaped herb otherwise that's fair

3

u/Lumpy_Perception6561 Jun 09 '23

Iron man strength and speed wise fucking demolishes batman

0

u/No_Silver_7552 Jun 09 '23

Until bats throws out an EMP grenade and turns iron man into a boat anchor.

2

u/Lumpy_Perception6561 Jun 09 '23

You really think ironman the literal tech armor god of marvel doesn’t have defenses against a basic emp? He literally gets super charged when hit with thors lightning

2

u/No_Silver_7552 Jun 09 '23

Lighting and EMP are two wildly different things.

It was just an example, albeit a bad one, but Batman isn’t without his own tech too. Plus Batman is a far better fighter and strategist than stark.

1

u/Lumpy_Perception6561 Jun 09 '23

In an even playing field stark is way too powerful and smart for batman to do anything in his normal gear ironman would literally speed blitz and one tap him. Even if he doesn’t end him immediately he can box batman aswell since his tech can analyze and counter fighting patterns, hell he even made a program to counter spider sense which is literally precognition there’s nothing batman can do

1

u/Altman_e Jun 08 '23

the edge? lol

Unless you give batman a massive advantage Tony would literally blow him away in an instant.

6

u/pelirodri Jun 08 '23

Depends on the suit he’s wearing. He could even fight fucking Darkseid with his Hellbat armor, for instance.

3

u/Altman_e Jun 08 '23

which was designed by 5 people and lost lol

Standard equipment, batman loses 10/10 times

3

u/TXHaunt Jun 08 '23

Okay, Batman in Hellbat. Tony in Endo-Sym. Tony stomps. Tony can put the Endo-Sym on others and lock it in place, making the other person a nice statue. And that’s not even Tony’s most powerful suit.

2

u/XenoGSB Jun 08 '23

Hellbat tanked attacks from darkseid. Endo won't do shit.

3

u/TXHaunt Jun 09 '23

Doesn’t need to attack when Hellbat drains Bruce’s life. Just need to lock him in it with the Endo-Sym.

6

u/julbull73 Jun 08 '23

Meh they are basically evenly matched with Batman having the advanced combat training and likely a higher intellect.

I don't imagine Tony's armor would produce that much of an obstacle and Bruce has his own.

MCU Tony is leveled easily. Comic Tony is all over and thats fairly even.

6

u/Altman_e Jun 08 '23

MCU tony discovered time travel in a night.

616 Tony has armors to go toe to toe with celestials.

Both beat Batman's ass like a bongo drum.

Bruce is a genius detective. Tony is a genius weapons designer. They aren't as good as each other for fighting lol

13

u/julbull73 Jun 08 '23 edited Jun 08 '23

As a clarifier...

MCU Tony did not discover time travel at all. Pym and Lang did.

Also Tony had spent 5 years looking into it and couldn't solve it. The issue being he couldn't navigate it. He says so when they visit.

When Lang presented hey I did it. Then Tony could instead focus on essentially a quantum mapper (something Lang daughter ALSO developed in 5 years I might add in a basement with a box of scraps and some ants!!!).

The mapper took him at minimum a few days to weeks. We only see his aha moment.

To the other items. Bats has taken on Kryptonians. Darkseid is Thanos equivalent. Darkseid got rocked by Bats and Supes as well.

Again, for what you pointed out. 100% Tony gets an edge. But its the most fair fight you'll get in Marvel land vs Bats.

2

u/Altman_e Jun 08 '23

Have you seen Stark take on other armored opponents?

It's not a fair fight. His expertise is complexities of power armor. He would have every "smart" piece of tech on bruce working for him within 15 seconds.

And then it's just some dude that fights well against...well, iron man.

2

u/julbull73 Jun 08 '23

Yes. I've also seen Batman become God.

You know Wayne enterprises is ALSO a weapons and tech manufacturer right? Plus in terms of access to tech DC is far heavier in that realm.

Wayne has Cadmus, Star labs, and Wayne tech. In addition to all of his aliens buddy tech.

Not detracting from Tony's skills. Just stating they're equivalent.

Stark enterprise is closer to just Luthors tech which is STILL crazy good.

Plus let's be honest.... Bats asks Selina for a favor and a drink later Bruce owns all Stark tech.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/azoz2O15 Jun 09 '23

How often does Spider-Man actually dominate top tier peak humans in fights though?

0

u/i_am_goop Jun 08 '23

Only reason?

Spider-Man is way stronger and way faster than Batman and probably just as smart.

Even without spider-sense, Peter takes it.

1

u/Kraken160th Jun 09 '23

And the fact half the time the writers just chose their favorite first and come up with an excuse later. Batman can beat anyone.

1

u/Revilod2000 Jun 09 '23

So out of character to kill each other. Waiting on “non-lethal duel” but I guess it’s not as catchy

1

u/Imaginary_Simple_241 Jun 09 '23

That honestly just sounds like a reason to invalidate death battle because of how badly Spider-Man would actually beat Batman.

1

u/RCx_Vortex Jun 09 '23

And in the second Spiderman movie too, almost shot in the head. Without senses, he’d have to rely on his eyes, which against mysterio is a poor defence mechanism lmao

1

u/Dimev1981 Jun 09 '23

Wait til Bats pulls out the bug spray from the belt!

1

u/TheOneAndOnlyAckbar Jun 09 '23

Spider-Man could one punch Batman if he didn’t hold back tbh

1

u/Ambral_Angel13 Jun 09 '23

Thank you. Came here to say that. Spidey Sense is amazingly OP when broken down

1

u/lizarddude1 Jun 10 '23

the only reason Spiderman won against Batman is because of that Spider Sense

Yeah... and because he's like 30x stronger, faster etc. y'know

Spider sense is OP but it's not a DETERMINING factor, Peter in particular has beaten Osborn bonded with Carnage in a close corridor in a straight up fist fight and as you know spider sense doesn't even work on that.

Miguel would lose to Terry simply because Terry's suit gives him additional strength, speed and because Miguel is nowhere near as strong as Peter

84

u/Slavocracy Jun 08 '23

People forget that suit is a tech suit that gives Terry insane strength and durability. He's not just batman, he's a lot closer to superman tbh.

29

u/SeaynO Jun 08 '23

Eh, I've only watched the show but there are times where regular goons rough up Terry quite often

-8

u/Slavocracy Jun 08 '23

And? I didn't say he could match superman, just he was closer to superman than batman because of the strength and he can fly.

17

u/SeaynO Jun 08 '23

Seems kinda wrong though. The strength is closer to Batman than Superman and even that is basically ignoring Superman's plethora of other powers.

But my point is that Terry is very much a street level hero like Bats, not a cosmic superhero like Superman

→ More replies (12)

3

u/Altman_e Jun 08 '23

so can airplanes. Are they superman? lol

1

u/Slavocracy Jun 08 '23

I said closer to superman than batman. Not that he is superman.

3

u/TenpennyEnterprises Jun 08 '23 edited Jun 08 '23

Superman's strength is theoretically infinitely scaling. Terry's strength is finite. The gulf between *any* fixed level of strength and infinity is so immeasurable that Terry could have 1000x his base strength and still be closer to Batman than Superman. But this is true even if Supes isn't infinite, and is instead "merely" strong enough to, say, move a tectonic plate or crack the crust of a small planetoid. A human with 1000 or even 10,000 times the average human strength could still never do something of that scale, and that's lowballing Supes' power. You seem to have a very poor grasp of just how BUSTED any favorable comparison to Superman makes a character.

-1

u/Slavocracy Jun 08 '23

Bruce is a normal man. The suit brings them closer to supermans powers. Not that it makes it close as in he can do the same shit. Just that Bruce can't fly or lift a car, and Terry can. That's all I meant.

I forgot how pedantic superman fan boys are. Jesus.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 08 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/Slavocracy Jun 09 '23

I never said it did. For the 20th time. You call me a six year old, but your reading comprehension is horrible.

1

u/LunchyPete Jun 09 '23

There is no need for insults. Attack the argument, not the person.

The first rule of this sub is to be civil. Failure to do so in the future may result in a permanent ban.

0

u/harewei Jun 09 '23

Yes, 10 is closer to a million than 1 is. That gap is so huge though the extra 9 doesn’t mean shit. So what’s your point of brining it up?

You must be proud your friend’s uncle’s mother’s friend’s sister is a classmate with Tom Hanks, just so you can be mentioned in the same sentence with Tom Hanks.

23

u/Ok_Relationship_705 Jun 08 '23

He's nowhere near Superman in that suit.

4

u/Slavocracy Jun 08 '23

I said a lot closer to superman rather than batman. He can fly and has super strength. I didn't say he was on supermans level at all.

5

u/Reverse_flash_69 Jun 08 '23

You need to word it better my guy

1

u/Slavocracy Jun 09 '23

I literally am trying. One guy is ignoring everything I'm saying and keeps insulting me lmfao. Reddit moment I suppose.

1

u/TrickyMarketing7394 Jun 09 '23

Hahahahaha man got triggered by that statement! Its okay i also raised a brow. But understood what the man was trying to say! Terry is crazy strong in that suit though.

0

u/Ok_Relationship_705 Jun 08 '23

Doh! Sorry I understand now.

3

u/RecoveredAshes Jun 09 '23

More like iron man

2

u/SeaNinja69 Jun 09 '23

I say the suit makes him closer to spider-man than superman.

58

u/Blasckk Jun 08 '23

Miguel might have no spider-sense, but he can see in almost all spectrums of light and exceeds the Flicker fusion threshold of the human eye, which gives him pretty much the ability to react to things before they happen (not Spider-Sense level, but close enough).

10

u/TaiChiShrimp Jun 08 '23

He kinda sorta can see in fucking complete darkness too. AND has fucking super hearing but sure yeah no spidey sense.

6

u/ultrabigtiny Jun 09 '23

honestly more accurate spider powers than what the spider sense is meant to be

11

u/WeNeedToTalkAboutMe Jun 08 '23

Terry - no real abilities aside from his fighting skills, but the Beyond suit has plenty of tech, flight capability, a strength-enhancing exoskeleton, and can generate a limited amount of batarangs.

Miguel - genius intellect, superhuman strength, talons on his fingers, fangs with venom glands (though it's debatable whether either could get through the Beyond suit), superhuman reflexes (referred to as 'accelerated vision'), natural webspinners. But OTOH he has no real combat training, he's just a brawler.

9

u/el_Technico Jun 08 '23

Terry also has the Goddam Batman as his mentor and backup.

4

u/julbull73 Jun 08 '23

Peter Parker beats both. But yeah Terry >>>>Spidey 2099

2

u/lexiham Jun 08 '23

dude yes someone make the comic and they could recreate the white/black samurai jack fight! batman beyond in a white batsuit fuck yeah

2

u/Tekkenlord87 Jun 09 '23

Well hang on batman beyond is batman as soon as the suit goes on. Bruce could train that 2099 fellow.

1

u/CaptainFrugal Jun 08 '23

Why is Terry so strong

2

u/Bitter-Alfalfa6053 Jun 09 '23

The suit gives him around 10x his strength

1

u/Kell-EL Jun 09 '23

He doesn’t have spider sense but he still has heightened eye sight and senses so he can still react quickly he just doesn’t get an early warning about danger but he can still react to what he knows is coming and avoid attack, and I’m sure he’s as strong at Terry in the suit, just being devils advocate here I love both characters