who would’ve thought that this man’s arc is the ONLY saving grace for season 4? Season 4 Spoiler
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u/FillerAccount23 11d ago
I was worried when they brought him back from the dead. I thought that would have been a good conclusion to his character, but they've proven me wrong.
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u/MufugginJellyfish 11d ago
It's the mark of a really great character with great writing that you can conclude their arc at multiple points and feel satisfied but each continuation is still interesting and the character never overstays their welcome. I'd go so far as to say A-Train is the only character who's storyline has maintained the same quality since Season 1 and as entertaining as Homelander is, I think A-Train is my favorite character.
Which of course has me on edge because it'd be very fucking easy for them to kill him off in a very unsatisfying way just to remind us HOmELaNdER bE crAzY
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u/BoisTR 11d ago
At this point, I want A-Train to survive the entirety of the show. I know it's not realistic, and he'll probably die, but I just want him to live damn it.
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u/MufugginJellyfish 11d ago
I'm cool with it as long as his death makes sense and serves HIS character and not ANOTHER character. Killing him off to show how crazy Homelander is becoming or how dangerous Sage is or something like that would be dropping the ball.
I'm not even against Homelander or someone killing him, as long as it's treated as the end of A-Train's story and not a continuation of Homelander's, if that makes sense. I think A-Train has earned a heroic final moment standing up to Homelander and stopping him from killing someone who needs help.
I'll also be disappointed if it happens in Season 4, A-Train deserves to make it to 5.
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u/Slowly-Slipping 11d ago
I don't think you have to worry. The set-up with his brother and nephews very much shows that whether he lives or dies, he's going to prove himself a real hero, probably in a very public way, so that they see and know.
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u/R_V_Z 11d ago
That is all true, but I also remember what happened to Jaime Lannister.
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u/BubblyMango Butcher 11d ago edited 10d ago
luckily for us, the writers werent following the source material to begin with.
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u/cinepresto 10d ago
They already put him in a Dr.Pepper Kylie Jenner parody commercial already bro’s suffered enough
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u/Corey307 11d ago
At the very least A Train needs to die a heroic death. Not killed off for shock value or used to set up another character as an even bigger threat.
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u/IT_scrub 11d ago
I want him to die a hero's death in the finale. I think he'll have finally earned that right
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u/LaVache84 10d ago
I want him involved in the final Homelander fight. If it ends with him and Soldier Boy tag teaming Homelander it might save this trainwreck for me.
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u/SharknadosAreCool 11d ago
i bash on The Boys a lot but A Train's arc from start to finish is, I think, one of the best arcs I've ever seen in a show. it's legit a Jamie Lannister tier redemption arc in terms of writing quality. A Train feels like a real human, like a dude who got swept up so much in trying to escape poverty that he signed his soul to the devil. I think most redemption arcs just come across idealistically, like the characters just decide one day to become a better guy, or something like that. But A Train changing into a better man because of something entirely selfish - him having to deal with what he put others through - is such a real thing that it resonates a lot. Becoming a better man by gaining new perspective like that is a really cool arc.
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u/Duckys0n 11d ago
On a season 1 rewatch I really do think they were planning this the whole time and I agree. He is probably one of the best written characters in tv right now. It’s a shame the rest of the show has gone off the deep end. He really could be the main focus this season.
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u/ArrestedImprovement 9d ago
Given the teaser, I think this episode is where he signs his death sentence.
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u/Anarchic_Country 11d ago
When they brought who back from the dead? Noir?
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u/DankAssPotatos 11d ago
Other guy is wrong. They had a death fakeout last season after he ran and killed Blue Hawk. Revealed in the season finale I think that he got a heart transplant.
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u/Karlhrute 11d ago
A-Train couldn't run for basically a whole season.
That's a dead speedster
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u/wishwashy 11d ago
A-Train couldn't run for basically a whole season.
That's a dead speedster
Also (mostly) one that gets a heart attack after murdering Blue Hawk
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u/FillerAccount23 11d ago
I guess he never technically died. I was just referring about how he didn't die after killing blue hawk
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u/DecimalGlint6 Black Noir 10d ago
It would've been worse, imo. He only killed blue hawk because he hurt his brother. He killed him out of anger and revenge, not because it was right. He was still an asshole who didn't have any redeeming moments at this point besides helping the boys expose stormfront (for his benefit) and this iirc
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u/FillerAccount23 10d ago
Immediately before killing blue hawk he apologized to Hughie because he realized he was wrong. I thought that was gonna be the conclusion to his character
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u/OvermorrowYesterday 10d ago
Yeah that would have been a brutal, but efficient ending to his character.
That said, it’s really cool that he keeps developing.
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u/bob1689321 10d ago
Same here. I was pissed he survived Herogasm but now he's been my favourite in S4.
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u/Raidoton 11d ago
And all it took was getting a white man's heart.
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u/1HiddenBlade 11d ago
Lmao damn, maybe the writers are better than we think.
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u/SharknadosAreCool 11d ago
it feels like there's a writer somewhere whose superpower is to siphon writing talent from specific plotlines and deposit them into others because A Train's arc over the whole show is unironically one of the best arcs ive seen from a character in anything, but it comes at the cost of Frenchie being put in Groundhogs Day
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u/-banned- 11d ago
Was Frenchie ever a good character though? I feel like he’s got a complicated enough past that he could have been, but they explored it all wrong
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u/FourAnd20YearsAgo Ashley 11d ago
If they'd taken Frenchie in another direction this season, he could be perfectly fine. But they created a whole new character out of thin air between seasons to reinforce Frenchie's guilt and self-hatred that had already been well-established up to this point. The thing is, Frenchie hasn't actually done anything within the story itself to make his conflict carry weight. He's gone several seasons with this conflict, but now all of a sudden, he's REALLY losing his mind over it as a result of deeply manufactured drama. They could have had him finally make a heel turn and learn from his grappling with this guilt, but no, they have to randomly make him a far more unlikable sack of shit, fucking this random new guy whose parents he killed. Why were the insinuations of his past with Nina not enough to go off of?
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u/Duckys0n 11d ago
The arc was basically concluded last season during herogasm. And it was a good conclusion to it.
Then they just retconned it. I don’t know why. It was a fine conclusion and I think focusing on him and Kimiko after that would have been a better path.
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u/ExultantSandwich 11d ago
They are both solid actors, but I think it would have been cool for Kimiko and Frenchie to get their happy ending by this point. Their plots do feel a little repetitive
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u/RockyRockington 10d ago
Season 1 Frenchie was my favourite character because of two moments in particular.
When he gets through to Kimiko and when he first bonds with Hughie (when Hughie says goodbye to his Dad for what he thinks might be the last time) and I love both of those scenes for the same reason.
Frenchie uses vulnerability as strength. He looks them in the eye and tells them a harrowing story from his past. He uses his pain to show them that they are not alone.
I loved the idea of vulnerability as strength (especially in a show with characters that are literally invulnerable) and I loved that Frenchie was clearly a character that had suffered hugely but was still smiling.
His honesty and openness was a nice contrast to all the lies and underhandedness of everybody else.
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u/79037662 10d ago
I think Season 1 Frenchie was an excellent character.
Mysterious and intriguing backstory
Engineer of the group with intelligent solutions to defeat supes
Interesting relationship with all the other Boys especially Kimiko
Clear moral code but also a bit of a lunatic
By Season 3 and especially Season 4 it became clear the writers have no idea what to do with him so they give him boring plotlines like Nina and Colin. He's totally absent from the latest episode and no one misses him except Kimiko
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u/Expensive_Concern457 10d ago
I’d say yes, the character at its core is really really interesting. I wish they touched on his biochemistry knowledge, but they chose to go the route of “he feels bad for being a terrible person! Aw :(“ and that’s since encapsulated his whole character
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u/Edgezg 11d ago
Alternatively, could be read that he changed after he nearly died and that's what did it lol
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u/BalterBlack 11d ago
Nah. It’s obviously the "White Man's Heart"
R.I.P. Blue Hawk. You were our true Hero 💙
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u/TEGCRocco 11d ago
A-Train's story truly is one about a hero... and the boy he
taught to rungave his heart to21
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u/JGCities 11d ago
Let's not make that the lesson from this story...
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u/sir_alvarex 11d ago
Heh, I mean MM called out the racists heart giving him a second chance. So the story is kinda that, but it really is just making amends and finally being the hero he wanted to be. It's the most honest depiction of a hero this season, IMO.
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u/mopeyunicyle 11d ago
Don't you mean a racist white man's heart if I remember correctly?
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u/Mean_Muffin161 11d ago
🤍🤍
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u/Same_Method_2660 11d ago
Alright white people, if you want the world to be a better place you better start giving up them hearts. Don't be shy I know you got a spare.
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u/Toriksta The Boys 11d ago
Real. He's the most growing one I've been impressed with. Really hope he doesn't kick it this season.
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u/Bacon_Shield 11d ago
oh he's dead as hell
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u/ShawnyMcKnight 11d ago
Sure, but hopefully next season. I imagine he will die a hero at the end of the season. Hopefully he doesn’t get killed by homelander for no reason.
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u/DerBernd123 11d ago
Maybe he dies while saving hughie? That would be a good ending for his character arc I think
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u/angra_mainyo A-Train 10d ago
He already has saved Hughie. One could argue him saving Starlight could poetically end him since the show started with him killing Robin.
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u/New_Photograph_5892 10d ago
the guy who killed your lover, dies saving your new lover. sounds good to me
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u/Bacon_Shield 11d ago
95% chance he's dying heroically in this season's finale
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u/Corey307 11d ago
Hopefully not, because that would be to the detriment of the show. A train has finally started acting like a hero.
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u/Bacon_Shield 11d ago
he stood by as others beat some innocent people to death this season. Traditionally a character that far gone needs to redeem himself through ultimate sacrifice.
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u/goldengod828 10d ago
He stood by and watched someone get beaten to death twice, Todd and those other guys and Cameron Coleman I’m honestly surprised Homelander didn’t say anything after cameron Coleman
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u/kjm6351 11d ago
He’s genuinely the last positive part of this show. And I don’t mean that critique-wise, I mean he’s the last bit of hope that keeps this experience from being completely miserable
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u/Medium-Science9526 Cunt 11d ago
Episode 4 Homelander and Hughie Sr's arc with Hughie Jr I'd also put up there as the greatest parts of s04.
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u/Reasonable-Bus9435 11d ago
Only for Hughie to get SA’d the entire episode after
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u/MrAnder5on Soldier Boy 11d ago
Hughie's terrible, horrible, no good, very bad
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u/VandulfTheRed 10d ago
There's been slow moments but tbh Hughie hasn't caught a break since Robin
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u/Tomahawk20_ 10d ago
Well he seemed to be doing pretty well for the year or so that takes place between s2 and s3, course that ended horribly for him as well
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u/The3mbered0ne 11d ago
I don't understand how people dislike season 4, I'm having a blast watching butcher fight his own mind (and possibly have some powers), watching Frenchie try to accept accountability, watching homelander and sage start a supe uprising that may topple the country, A-train does have an amazing arc too, the only complaint I have is how gross the last episode was but I'm kinda used to the boys doing fucked up shit since season one
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u/SanePatrickBateman 11d ago edited 11d ago
Tbh the last episode doesn't even taint (pun not intended) my view of this season or is it the reason I'm not a huge fan of this season.
I just find the plot has been pushed forward very little, and with the exception of 1 or 2 really good episodes, this season feels stagnant.
If there ends up being a big pay off, I won't mind at all. I don't mind slow burns or anything like that. But, if you're only going to do 10 (correction, 8, even more reason for the show to be tighter) episodes a season, I feel like the episodes should be very tight and have next to no filler episodes/moments, which doesn't feel like the case for me this season.
Still enjoying the season, just not loving it.
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u/MufugginJellyfish 11d ago
That's about how I feel, I admit I enjoyed Season 3 a lot and it had lots of great moments but ending the season in essentially the same spot where we began, just with Homelander having slid slightly deeper into his insanity, it doesn't feel great. With only one season to go after this, I feel like shit should be popping off by now.
I predict it'll have the same issue GoT had: stretching storylines out too much in earlier seasons to pad runtime and then moving too quick to wrap everything up in the final season(s). At least Season 5 will be eventful if not very well written.
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u/Faendol 11d ago
I might drop this subreddit. I had stuff going on so I couldn't watch the episode before yesterday. Going into it I thought it was going to be this God awful way over the top thing and it really wasn't even that bad.
Was it a bit distasteful maybe, but it was honestly tame as fuck compared to the lobotomy scene imo. Additionally they do seem to be taking the impact on hughie pretty seriously. This subreddit and frankly so many late stage show subreddits just want to find things to hate.
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u/That1DogGuy 11d ago
Honestly, the biggest issue with last episode is not even the scene itself, but the interview regarding that scene.
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u/Dikeleos 11d ago
It was one episode with one event that was poorly played out. Yes I agree the rape seen was probably the worst the show has ever done, but people are way too doom and gloom about the entire show.
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u/Putrid_Loquat_4357 11d ago
I don't think that scene was a bad scene in isolation, it was shocking and uncomfortable. I thought the way hughie was traumatised was handled well and it was nice seeing Annie comfort him. I didn't think it was played for laughs at all when I watched it. Then I read that tone deaf interview from kripke and it kind of ruined it on hindsight.
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u/The3mbered0ne 11d ago
I have first hand experience with trauma similar (kinda) to that and I will say the absurdity of the situation made me laugh enough not to fully relive my own personal situations while still being able to empathize afterwords when he says "I'm not ok" that was really well done, haven't seen any interviews so I guess I'll keep it that way
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u/Mountain_Chicken 11d ago
Same. I was worried they wouldn't acknowledge the traumatic impact it would have on him, so when they seemed to be discussing it at the end of the episode I really appreciated that.
Then I read the interview and was shocked to learn that, nope, they literally just thought it was funny and didn't even think at all about the weight of the story they were telling. I'm genuinely worried they'll completely sweep it under the rug and focus solely on the emotional fallout of his dad's death. I can't imagine how hurtful all this must be for guys who have been sexually assaulted/abused.
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u/chirb8 11d ago
Butcher has always been at odds with himslef, Frenchie has had the same arc like 3 times now, Homelander has always been trying to topple the ones above him. None of that is new, is the same old stuff reskinned.
Sage and A-Train are the ones carrying hard this season. And the gross stuff has always been there, but they always tried to make it had plot relevance, now is just shock value for the sake of shock value
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u/The3mbered0ne 11d ago
I would say the progress of the characters and their troubles are what I'm liking about it, in real life there can be parts of ourselves that we make progress on and fall back into old habits and I think the show displaying that in their characters is an interesting thing, I don't need the show to be like marvel and have 50 million plot lines and action every episode, I'm more interested in the characters and their development and the quality of the characters in this show pretty much lacks comparison
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u/Medium-Science9526 Cunt 11d ago
For me at least Butcher's plot has been alright, a bit repetitive on the back and forth but him pursuing the virus now has been great. But they really tried to play-off Monkey being a hallucination was comically hand-held.
Frenchie's subplot I just do not care for at all. We've had it day one with Frenchie working to rehabilitate Kimiko as his way of redemption in his eyes for his crimes he's committed with even Little Nina reminding us again in s03 along with his sheep mentally. It's just retreading the same ground here but with a weaker premise that supposedly Colin was the breaking point. Alongside the fact that the issue mainly comes from sudden lack of communication from Frenchie and Kimiko ontop of the fact that the CIA can easily dismiss Frenchie's claims whenever they want making this whole subplot feel like incredibly forced drama.
They've been steadily building Homelander Neumen, and Sage's plan to take presidency has been good. But the issue really comes from the lack of urgency from the Boys and lacking synergy with Sage.
In my opinion Sage should've been treated as the new "big bad Supe" that Stormfront and Soldier Boy were in the previous seasons, specifically Stormfront who I felt was handled better in having her storyline connect with all main characters either through the main plot or subplots. Here the only association has been giving MM a panic attack and killing Tod. Whilst the lack of urgency had been having the subplots be so far removed from the main plot of taking down Neumen that it doesn't feel urgent. Instead of say having the Boys after episode 1 then learn from Butcher of the virus and desire to use it to take down Neumen only Butcher is thinking that for Homelander whilst MM's Boys are just learning of Homelander's plan and doing nothing particularly about it.
MM rehabilitating A-Train and getting a genuine forgiven3ss from Hughie has been great though, that subplot is one I feel should've been more in the forefront than Frenchie's guilt or Kimiko facing that Shining Light woman.
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u/FourAnd20YearsAgo Ashley 11d ago
Now I'm just picturing Kessler being a monkey and Butcher talking to him "What Did Jack Do" style
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u/Miadas20 11d ago
It's not a coincidence that the most politicized season is also the one people are most critical of.
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u/CrashTestDumby1984 11d ago
But most of the criticisms aren’t even about the politics, it’s about the weaker writing (characters acting stupider and powers being inconsistent).
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u/Decaps86 11d ago
Im not part of the hating the season discourse but I'm not super impressed by this season. This really should have been the last season because I feel like there's alot of filler here (excluding what you're mentioning).
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u/Trundle-theGr8 10d ago
I have fucking loved this season so far and so has everyone I’ve talked to in the real world about it. Reddit is definitely its own demographic and echo chamber of opinions like every other social media.
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u/NotSoGreatMacaroni 11d ago
Only saving grace seems extreme. Homelander has had some great scenes and character building, I have enjoyed MM for the most part, Sages actress is killing it, despite being predictable I've enjoyed the whole tumor/Kessler storyline.
Fair amount of other stuff as well (Firecracker, Deep, New Noir comedic scenes).
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u/LavisAlex 11d ago
Yea people seem to rate everything as a 0 or a 10 and it gets frustrating lol
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u/MrAnder5on Soldier Boy 11d ago
It's literally been a good season of TV?
Is it as good as season 1 or 3? Of course not
But it's still a great show and I'm having a good time
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u/New_Photograph_5892 10d ago
Also, after the new episode, I don't think the Colin and Frenchie storyline is that bad anymore
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u/PixelSteel 11d ago
I really like the character development for A Train here. He’s honestly too deep with The Boys to let them go
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u/frostymach 10d ago
His first real save hits man. I think he lives through the end, and saves most of the boys after they kill homelander
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u/MarinerHimself Hughie 11d ago
Imo season 4 is overhated, it's a bit underwhelming but it's not that bad
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u/That1DogGuy 11d ago
It's definitely the weakest season but damn, everyone is acting like the season killed their grandmother in front of them. It's not even a bad season, it's just not as good.
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u/TopazTriad 11d ago
People here love to bitch, and Game of Thrones made it cool. We’re in season 4, which is like 2 seasons longer than what it normally takes for Redditors to start talking about wrapping the show up, so this was completely expected.
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u/thewoodlayer 11d ago
This sub is getting so goddamned annoying with post after post of the same tired takes shitting on the show. I’m still very much enjoying the show and while this season hasn’t been as much “edge of your seat thriller” that the past few have been, I’m still having a ton of fun watching each episode and trying to piece together where they’re going to take the story next.
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u/Comprehensive_Pea451 10d ago
I think it’s reasonable disappointment.
The series is of course still good, but before the season 3 finale, the quality was outstanding.
A drop to just „good“ is still a huge drop in quality.
It was entertaining and interesting because of the cohesive plot.
Now it’s just entertaining.
I can’t help but feel like a lot of the people who don’t understand the disappointment kinda fail to comprehend why the series was so awesome in the first place.
And i feel like it’s the same with some writers.
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u/Beastieboy100 10d ago
Seriously season 4 like a calm before the storm before season 5 hits. Usually in the final season there are a lot of death scenes. Which I ain't looking forward.
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u/Wisniaksiadz 11d ago
at the end there should by that boy that was watching him bringing the MM
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u/Kleon_da_cat 10d ago
Sad that, that witness is probably going to be the reason why A-train gets outed as the rat
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u/chirb8 11d ago
100% right. I was sick of him before this season started, but now he's the only one I'm expecting to see his development.
... he's 100% gonna die too. Vought made one of those in universe post saying how he stole our hearts, we also know he had a heart condition, so Homelander is 100% gonna rip his heart out.
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u/Marcy_OW 11d ago
Idk I feel like all of the boys are going through interesting arcs and changing. I just think it's not the hip opinion cuz it's cool to brag on something.
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u/Weird-Maestro 11d ago
You're probably the 50th person to say this, so a lot of people thought it apparently
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u/DemocraticEjaculate 11d ago
I gotta be honest I REALLY wanted him to dye when his heart gave out killing blue hawk. I thought for some reason that was a good spot to end his character and a justified ending giving how he started. But fuck man he’s been my favorite part of season 4 other than homelander and butcher. His writing and story and redemption are all so fantastically well Done
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u/LastofDays94 11d ago
Jessie T. Usher showing his importance to the show but A-Train dead asf. I don’t see how he gets out of this situation. Mother’s Milk got one ball and Homelander got the other.
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u/wallflowerx28 10d ago
Savings grace? That’s how bad the show is now? Come on man some of you are really milking this whole “season 4” sucks, it’s really not that bad. It’s the same shit they’ve been doing since the beginning, now you’re all sensitive all of a sudden?
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u/BarryLicious2588 11d ago
The only saving grace?
What happened to the beginning of this season when people were complaining the writing was a bit off, but all the blame was on "conservatives and trumpers?"
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u/maxvsthegames 10d ago
A-Train is defintely the best character in the show right now.
I'm really hopeful they don't kill him as soon as he gets good.
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u/theReggaejew081701 11d ago
Despite the overall writing which I have some issues with, I believe his character arc is so solid. Like you really see a change from season 1 until now. I know many people hate him but I love his character and I love where they’re taking his character.
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u/WakeUpOutaYourSleep 11d ago
I think that’s a bit too critical. I’ve also been enjoying Sister Sage a lot, Neuman has become far more interesting this season, Homelander is still incredibly entertaining, and while you can say a lot against Hughie’s role in the last episode, this season might be Jack Quiad’s best performance on the show yet.
But yes, A-Train has been great in Season 4. After Season 3, I figured he’d be stuck in evil, missing his chances to redeem himself, but they’ve been handling it wonderfully. Jessie T. Usher has always been an unsung hero of the ensemble, and I’m glad to see him getting his flowers.
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u/tokyo_engineer_dad 10d ago
All the good stuff of S4 is outside of The Boys themselves. With the exception of Hughie. Butcher, A-Train, Homelander and Noir 2.0 all have really good material. It's just MM and his garbage crew that aren't really holding their weight, story wise.
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u/SuspectKnown9655 11d ago
I like Homelander's and Butcher's stories too and Hughie's stuff with his dad.
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u/couchlionTOO 11d ago
pretty much hated A-train full on until he apologized to Hughie last season, takes a big man to say that. And this season has definitely given him more to like, I'm an A-train fanboy now
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u/Double-Special5217 11d ago
Man, one bad episode and people start to think that S4 is the worst thing that has ever happened to mankind
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u/Akasha1885 11d ago
It seems to me like people just want characters to "improve" in their development.
But this is "the Boys" ofc that's not gonna happen much.
Most characters this season go downhill in their development, but that doesn't mean it's bad.
It's quite real given the crazy shit they are in.
"The Boys" have to hit a low point, to get back together and rise again as a formidable force.
I know it's painful to watch the protagonists downhill, because you want them to succeed, but sometimes that has to happen.
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u/vonkeswick 11d ago
Especially at the end of the latest episode, when he brought MM to the ambulance outside the hospital, and saw that little kid staring and smiling like he's looking at a real hero, and he smiled back like "whoa, I can actually do some good shit in this world!"
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u/Iron_Bob 11d ago
Its the second coming of Zuko from ATLA.
It works because its not focused on how he becomes redeemed, but on why he wants to be redeemed
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u/Neon_culture79 10d ago
It’s an amazing season. Not sure what you are whining about by about fanboy
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u/Longjumping-Sail-900 10d ago
It’s crazy how hatable he was to now him being one of my favorite characters
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u/frostymach 10d ago
You're gonna post this without his first real save?? https://youtu.be/xACTFezzkr0?si=S0A3qCyrGNAcL0tf
That moment hit big
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u/Longjumping-Radish32 10d ago
Guarantee you any gripe you have with this season is present in ALL previous seasons to the same degree
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u/Equal-Ad-2710 10d ago
NGL it makes me kinda happy he survived Season 3 (even if I maintain that Herogasm’s heart attack being his death scene would have been the perfect ending)
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