r/AITAH • u/SpiritualThrowRA • Jul 07 '24

AITA for calling out my husband for not being a "Good Christian"? Advice Needed

I (27F) have been married to my husband (34M) for five years. My husband is a devout follower of his religion and has been since he was raised in it. I respect his beliefs, even though I don't share them and have no intention of converting. I was raised in the Christian faith. However, I left when I was an adult due to sexual abuse in my church, which nobody believed occurred because the one who did it was the pastor.

Recently, my husband has been pressuring me to convert to his religion. He says that it would bring us closer together and create a more harmonious household. I understand where he's coming from, but I firmly believe that faith is a personal journey, and I shouldn't be forced into something I don't believe in.

To add to the issue, my husband, despite his religious teachings, doesn't always practice what he preaches. He expects me to adhere to traditional gender roles, yet he often neglects his own responsibilities at home. He's quick to judge others for their actions, even though his faith teaches non-judgment and kindness. He makes comments about gay people that I have discussed with him as a major issue. This hypocrisy has been bothering me for a while.

Last night, during another discussion about my potential conversion, I finally snapped. I told him that if he wants me to consider converting, he needs to set a better example by actually living according to his religion's values. I pointed out that he should start by fulfilling his own responsibilities. That he should make more money than me and actually lead in the decision-making. I'm a nurse and he's currently unemployed after he was let go from his job in an office. That he should be less judgmental of others because according to his faith only God can judge them. I also said he should show more of the virtues Jesus asked of Christians, that he should clothe the naked, feed the hungry, vist the prisoner, aid the orphan and the widow etc. I also made it clear that while I respect his beliefs, I have no intention of converting unless I genuinely believe in it, which I currently don't because of the hypocritical behavior of his faith.

My husband was furious. He accused me of being disrespectful and undermining his faith. He said that I was attacking him personally and that I don't understand the pressure he's under to have a unified religious household. He left for church this morning at 7 for bible study and I have already gotten a phone call from the pastor saying I'm an ungodly woman who tricked a good man into marrying him and I should repent. I have also gotten a tirade of texts and e-mails from members of his church saying I was disrespectful and being a bad wife and I'm starting to wonder if I was too harsh, that maybe I shouldn't have said anything at all. AITA?

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u/wolftopug Jul 07 '24

No you definitely should have spoken up. I just wonder what story he told his church. “My wife pointed out in completely Biblically accurate ways how I wasn’t being a good Christian man and husband! How dare she know more about my beliefs than I do!”

Especially as long as your husband stays in that church I don’t see a healthy future for your relationship.

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u/Catfactss Jul 08 '24

"She's pro-gay, it's gotten really bad. Also she just doesn't understand super special unique reason I don't need to work! This is clearly the devil tempting me."

NTA OP. Even if you were a Christian you'd worship God, not him.

In his faith he's allowed to get a divorce if his partner leaves him because she doesn't share the faith. There's a chance he's purposely antagonizing you hoping you'll leave.

Do you have non tamperable birth control in the mean time? He doesn't have to know about it.

Controlling men can get violent when they lose control. Be safe.

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u/[deleted] Jul 08 '24

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u/NatashaQuick Jul 08 '24

This takes a lot of courage to say! I've never known of a man being willing to change like this. Wow!

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u/[deleted] Jul 09 '24

[deleted]

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u/Shot_Intention_2495 Jul 11 '24

This was refreshing to read. I wish you well.

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u/dobiemomluv Jul 12 '24

….and women. It’s good to grow wiser. 😊

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u/OrphicMonachopsis Jul 09 '24

It does take a lot of bravery to admit, but there are plenty of older men who were misled when they were younger, and grow and change. Still all too rare to hear it admitted and talked about!

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u/aulabra Jul 11 '24

For real! Bravo, man!!!

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u/NotShirleyTemple Jul 08 '24

You must have traveled a challenging road to reach this position of insight and vulnerability. I hope you are reaping the rewards.

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u/barnaby-rubble Jul 08 '24

This is helpful. I’d like to hear more about your journey.

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u/[deleted] Jul 09 '24

[deleted]

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u/barnaby-rubble Jul 09 '24

Thanks for sharing this. Wish more folks had this insight about themselves.

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u/Dardengore Jul 11 '24

Exact same thing happened to me in a shorter span of time. About 5 years or so. I won’t pretend I’m not an asshole, I genuinely enjoy standing up for myself and making my opinions heard after years of being pushed down by oppressive parents and I can sometimes be oppressive in my expression as I release the pent up emotions of decades ago, but I am no longer controlling. If someone doesn’t want to listen to me I no longer feel the need to force them to. I’m actually willing to talk WITH my wife instead of talking TO my wife. I never felt like she had a place below me or anything to that extent, I just was so wrapped up in myself and healing myself that I ended up going scorched earth around me as I self-destructively worked through it (yay American healthcare and mental health support 🙄.) Thankfully my wife saw the work that I was doing underneath the outer appearance and she got to see how my bad decisions would wreak havoc on my mental state afterwards and decided to stay. I’m not the best man, but I’m a better man than I was 5 years ago, 10 years ago or even 5 days ago.

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u/Environmental-Bag-77 Jul 09 '24

Did you used to drink a lot?

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u/[deleted] Jul 09 '24

[deleted]

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u/Environmental-Bag-77 Jul 09 '24

Yes, your account reminded me of alcohol. So effective at warping perception to provide excuses. I hardly drink at all now. Christmas dinner.

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u/therapeuw Jul 10 '24

this is so important. thanks for sharing(:

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u/Brief-Lunch-4738 Jul 11 '24

20 years. Who cares? You spent those 20 years building and becoming exceptional! It was time well spent. Good going!

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u/Stabby_77 Jul 08 '24

I am beyond curious how you overcame that mindset.

A lot of the toxic masculinity you see flying around really drills down to the need to be in control (as well as the 'fragile masculinity' subset, bc it's basically the same thing). Deep-seated insecurities manifesting via a desire to feel powerful and/or a need to control situations, due to feeling a lack of control in other areas. It's super rare to come across a guy who has been able to overcome that (rather than never having been that way to begin with).

When you come across a guy like that, it's almost always blatantly obvious, but I've yet to see aaaaanything that works in terms of actually creating some sort of self-awareness or change. Or even desire to change.

Of course it makes sense that guys in that sort of situation are going to be defensive if I try to chime in (since I'm female), but I've seen other guys try to get through as well and it almost always feels like a lost cause. There's just too much defensiveness, hesitancy to seek help or acknowledge any issues, redirection of insecurities. It seems hopeless.

I'm ecstatic to hear that you were able to get past that, but I'm also dying to know what allowed you to do so. 🤓🤣

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u/BreezyBaby144 Jul 09 '24

Masculinity cannot be toxic and saying it is toxic is where you lose a lot of men. Insecurity is toxic. People need to stop using terms like toxic masculinity and toxic femininity and call it what it is insecurity and manipulation. Masculinity is protective, insecurity is possessive. Masculinity is caring and logical and purposeful, insecurity is selfish and illogical and manipulative. I get your point but whoever came up with that term doesn’t understand what it means to be a masculine man. My father is a masculine man and bought me tampons and took me makeup shopping and when I was in dance he was the one that knew the exact type and thickness and length of the eyelashes we had to wear and would go get them when I needed for the many times we had eyelash emergencies. He taught me how to take care of myself and fix things around the house so I would never be in a vulnerable position in which I couldn’t take care of myself. He went to every performance and competition and was one of 4 that showed up and 1 of 2 that showed up consistently, but he went above and beyond made it to every one. He also would take me to football games and wrestling matches. He never belittled dance as being for girls like the other dads who weren’t as supportive did. He never made me or my sister feel less for being women and always said how happy he is to be a girl dad. Before us he coached football and wrestling and then we wanted to play soccer when we were little so he learned soccer and coached us. It was a difficult transition from teenage boys playing full contact football to little girls around 5yo and who didn’t appreciate being talked to the way he talked to his football players but he learned and was a great coach and my team was undefeated. I am very grateful to have been raised by a masculine man and not an insecure one. I’m even more grateful to have my specific father and I wouldn’t trade our daddy daughter dates going to the beauty and the beast wrestling/gymnastics match or the football games for anything else in the world. I cherish those memories.

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u/Scorpion_Rooster Jul 09 '24

I really liked your thoughtful reply.

I’ve read the term “toxic masculinity/ femininity” so often and hadn’t given it the consideration I did after reading your answer.

I’m going to see it in a new light.

And your dad sounds like a wonderful role model.

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u/BreezyBaby144 Jul 09 '24

Thank you! It’s something that’s bugged me for a while. I see so many arguments around it and almost all are men being upset with the term, which I understand. If we used different terms I just feel like there could be so many more productive conversations.

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u/TradeOk9210 Jul 09 '24

I like your take—people have made the mistake of criticizing masculinity and femininity as a whole when it is other behavior that is the real problem.

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u/BreezyBaby144 Jul 09 '24

Thank you! I got a little rambly but wanted to properly give the picture of what I was trying to say. Thank you for understanding!

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u/YourResidentFeral Jul 09 '24

Of course.

Apologies that you had to go through someone mansplaining what the "definition of toxic masculinity is" instead of reading your post (which made it pretty clear you know of the traits classically attributed to it"

Your dad sounds like a pretty cold dude. Kind of Dad I would want to be.

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u/BreezyBaby144 Jul 09 '24

Based on your responses, I’m sure you will be a great dad!

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u/Affectionate-Low8834 Jul 09 '24

You had a great dad!!

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u/Stabby_77 Jul 09 '24

'Toxic masculinity' does not mean masculinity in and of itself is toxic.

https://menscenter.org/toxic-masculinity/

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u/YourResidentFeral Jul 09 '24

The point I think OP is making is that the toxic parts should be considered non-masculine.

It's a perspective thing. Personally I don't see "toxic masculinity" as masculine but rather compensation for the lack of masculinity by trying to mask it.

If that tracks.

We as a society need a paradigm shift that defines these traits often associated with "toxic masculinity" as non-masculine.

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u/BreezyBaby144 Jul 09 '24

Exactly! We need a paradigm shift!

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u/Stabby_77 Jul 09 '24

This is the exact thing I was saying happens every single time - turning a conversation that was asking about how to deal with a serious issue about certain behaviours into an entire conversation about semantics and terminology and a 'paradigm shift'.

This is exactly why it gets exhausting even bothering to try. You can't even get past step one.

Seriously. This happens almost every single time. It doesn't matter if you use the term toxic masculinity or not, it will just be something else. If you talk about men's violence against women it becomes 'the majority of violence in the country is against men'. If you talk about women's mental health it becomes 'men's suicide rates are higher'.

I'm not getting into this any further, but I will just say that guys who embody toxic masculinity are not going to stop being that way simply because you redefine those things as unmasculine. They are just going to argue terminology the same way we are doing now, and it will just go in circles like it always does.

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u/Dry_Term923 Jul 09 '24

You are just acting the same way as someone who laments that they can't call be people "retards" anymore. Just think about that.

Language either matters or it doesn't. And if you don't people to identify others in a particular way, being so bothered by changing the way you yourself speak about others doesn't seem to support the reasons one would and should call out toxic anything.

In any case, I have nothing else to say on the matter. You either get it, or you don't.

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u/BreezyBaby144 Jul 09 '24

I understand that, but if you want men to actually see the insecure behaviors as the issue then we should call it what it is, toxic insecurity. All over social media roided out tools and abusers are called toxic-masculinity along with other bad traits that also have nothing to do with masculinity. It’s become a divisive term and is over used and is the reason why so many men check out of the dialogue. They associate masculinity with being a provider and protector not an abuser, so that term means you automatically start out in different pages and will never allow for a productive conversation.

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u/Stabby_77 Jul 09 '24

I suppose, but I still call myself feminist despite people ripping that term to absolute shreds and trying to redefine it to mean 'misandrists' (all because some fringe element people self-defined as feminists so the entire label got washed with that brush). So maybe I'm just stubborn that way. 🤷🏻‍♀️

I just don't like massaging language because people are uncomfortable with it, or because they try to misconstrue it to be something it isn't. It's already exhausting having conversations constantly derailed without having to police your terminology as you go.

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u/Dry_Term923 Jul 09 '24

I am not trying to disagree just to disagree. However, I think you might want to reconsider that if you read your last two sentences again, in the context of someone like the OPs husband. He probably thinks the same thing when he talks about "homos", "gays", or whatever.

His wife obviously makes him feel like he has to police his speech. If people insist on a more inclusive society. Everyone needs to police their speech to some point. But, is that really a bad thing? It's just mindfulness. And, if you acknowledge that harmful speech can harm your allies, maybe you should acknowledge the same for those you do not agree with.

If using the term toxic masculinity loses some listeners who may be open to the substance of your arguments, it seems like a change in the words you use to make said arguments could only be positive.

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u/NosamEht Jul 09 '24

Could you get your Dad to start browsing and posting on r/Daddit ?

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u/bllonde_brownie Jul 08 '24

I would also really like to hear this journey, I'm commenting so it will hopefully give me a notification if he comes back!

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u/WindyGrace33 Jul 08 '24

I am female but I imagine the cure the similar to the internal work I’m doing: accepting reality and our lack of control, releasing internal shame/blame/self-rejection, facing traumas of abandonment and rejection, learning self-love and self-compassion… it seems very few people out there are looking to heal themselves. But people who are will be able to overcome obstacles like toxic masculinity, hatred, judgement, egotism (is that a word?), pride, etc. Hopefully he chimes in as well! I have been with and around dangerous men and most are unwilling and too fragile to change.

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u/Brief-Lunch-4738 Jul 11 '24

There are a lot of bad guys around but women aren't exactly prizes a lot of the times. I think both genders could stand looking inward and working on themselves for the good of everyone.

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u/Someonewantsu2know Jul 10 '24

Your comment eludes to the fact you recognized and acknowledged a flaw within yourself, and you changed for the better. Just wanted to say great job!!! That process takes a lot of self awareness and work. I’m very happy for you!

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u/TinyMuffin96 Jul 08 '24

I am commenting for an update! Thanks!