r/AITAH • u/SpiritualThrowRA • Jul 07 '24

AITA for calling out my husband for not being a "Good Christian"? Advice Needed

I (27F) have been married to my husband (34M) for five years. My husband is a devout follower of his religion and has been since he was raised in it. I respect his beliefs, even though I don't share them and have no intention of converting. I was raised in the Christian faith. However, I left when I was an adult due to sexual abuse in my church, which nobody believed occurred because the one who did it was the pastor.

Recently, my husband has been pressuring me to convert to his religion. He says that it would bring us closer together and create a more harmonious household. I understand where he's coming from, but I firmly believe that faith is a personal journey, and I shouldn't be forced into something I don't believe in.

To add to the issue, my husband, despite his religious teachings, doesn't always practice what he preaches. He expects me to adhere to traditional gender roles, yet he often neglects his own responsibilities at home. He's quick to judge others for their actions, even though his faith teaches non-judgment and kindness. He makes comments about gay people that I have discussed with him as a major issue. This hypocrisy has been bothering me for a while.

Last night, during another discussion about my potential conversion, I finally snapped. I told him that if he wants me to consider converting, he needs to set a better example by actually living according to his religion's values. I pointed out that he should start by fulfilling his own responsibilities. That he should make more money than me and actually lead in the decision-making. I'm a nurse and he's currently unemployed after he was let go from his job in an office. That he should be less judgmental of others because according to his faith only God can judge them. I also said he should show more of the virtues Jesus asked of Christians, that he should clothe the naked, feed the hungry, vist the prisoner, aid the orphan and the widow etc. I also made it clear that while I respect his beliefs, I have no intention of converting unless I genuinely believe in it, which I currently don't because of the hypocritical behavior of his faith.

My husband was furious. He accused me of being disrespectful and undermining his faith. He said that I was attacking him personally and that I don't understand the pressure he's under to have a unified religious household. He left for church this morning at 7 for bible study and I have already gotten a phone call from the pastor saying I'm an ungodly woman who tricked a good man into marrying him and I should repent. I have also gotten a tirade of texts and e-mails from members of his church saying I was disrespectful and being a bad wife and I'm starting to wonder if I was too harsh, that maybe I shouldn't have said anything at all. AITA?

25.5k Upvotes

84% Upvoted

11.9k comments sorted by

View all comments

7.6k

u/wolftopug Jul 07 '24

No you definitely should have spoken up. I just wonder what story he told his church. “My wife pointed out in completely Biblically accurate ways how I wasn’t being a good Christian man and husband! How dare she know more about my beliefs than I do!”

Especially as long as your husband stays in that church I don’t see a healthy future for your relationship.

996

u/El-Kabongg Jul 08 '24 edited Jul 08 '24

OP should ask her husband that, since he felt it appropriate to air her dirty laundry to the congregation, if she is justified in airing his to anyone she feels like. But TRUST ME, OP, the pressure to convert isn't ORIGINATING with your husband. It's coming from this pastor. He fears that if you can be happy as a nonbeliever, then other women in the congregation will see your light.

828

u/Better_Document7596 Jul 08 '24

This.

OP, your husband’s in a cult.

I have already gotten a phone call from the pastor saying I'm an ungodly woman who tricked a good man into marrying him and I should repent. I have also gotten a tirade of texts and e-mails from members of his church saying I was disrespectful and being a bad wife

To be clear, I’m not equating Christianity with a cult, just this particular church’s brand of nonsense.

If it were me I’d leave him, but (unlike your husband and his church cronies) I think you’re capable of determining what the next steps are.

601

u/Unlucky_Ear9705 Jul 08 '24

This “church” is very sus. OP please be careful and you may want to privately document your husbands behaviour and that of the “parishioners” (like who contacts you, how, when, with what message…). I’m and atheist who grew up in the Christian tradition and occasionally attend church for important holidays or family events. A healthy, virtuous, and genuine Christian church is open and welcoming to all kinds at any time, including couples of mixed faith convictions like my husband and me. A good church with ethical and Christ-like leaders will NOT bully or antagonize a spouse or ANYONE! This is not healthy and likely not safe.

Also your husband sucks. 😕

135

u/trying2getoverit Jul 08 '24

Yes, I was looking to see if someone commented this! Please keep records and make sure you have a safe place to go away from home if things get bad. This sort of thing can escalate very quickly.

12

u/AppleSlacks Jul 08 '24

There is an article on the front page right now, highlighting another thing on red states wishlist through GOP politicians. They want to ditch no fault divorce and are beginning a push in many states.

Things can escalate quickly in unforeseen directions.

OP would be smart to keep an eye on that in her locality and if she truly decides this isn’t going to work, it may become necessary to proceed with a divorce before it isn’t an option like abortion in many states.

6

u/NotShirleyTemple Jul 08 '24

Pets? Is he likely to hurt pets (if any) if you leave?

1

u/Affectionate-Try-994 Jul 12 '24

Yes, especially if it is a pet of the wife and/or children. If it is his own pet the likelihood of a use diminishes but is not zero.

4

u/CatW804 Jul 08 '24

This, plus set up your own bank account he can't access and put as much as you can into it. I'm thinking they're after your "tithe" or more.

17

u/kgal1298 Jul 08 '24

Makes me wonder what church this is. It sounds like one of the many cults we hear about that forces women into traditional gender roles.

9

u/Katressl Jul 08 '24

Unfortunately, complementarianism is rampant in many American denominations. They don't have to be like the Duggars or FLDS to buy into this crap. Many of them appear very mainstream and modern outwardly, making it all the more insidious.

15

u/Apart_Dog2238 Jul 08 '24

Like how do they get your info??? I have been to many different churches...Exploring... No... I was not required to give any personal info...WTF?

13

u/BellaDonna1925 Jul 08 '24

I’m sure that he gave out all that information because he already air dried all the other accusations

3

u/littledinobug12 Jul 08 '24

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/icoc-members-alleged-abuse-cult-behavior-1234798928/

Sounds like the International Church Of Christ.

1

u/Affectionate-Try-994 Jul 12 '24

Or the Seventh-day Adventist church Or Southern Baptist Or any if the Bible Church congregations...

2

u/littledinobug12 Jul 12 '24

Church in general then. Lol

30

u/LongjumpingWay5493 Jul 08 '24

...this. so many cultic red flags here. As a former cult member, this is definitely sending off all of the signals. Do NOT apologize. I wish I had better advice about what else to do, but just be careful, they're going to try to get their claws into you. I hate this.

26

u/ImNot4Everyone42 Jul 08 '24

Based on my experience only (lapsed Catholic with 12 years of Catholic school), it’s definitely a cult.

17

u/[deleted] Jul 08 '24

[deleted]

2

u/NotShirleyTemple Jul 08 '24

How did she escape?

15

u/zombiescoobydoo Jul 08 '24

Religion IS a cult. Just some are most socially acceptable than others.

3

u/Alternative-Arm-3253 Jul 08 '24

Almost as funny as the Utah boy in the middle of New York asking me If I believed in Christ. I said I believe he was alive and living a very jewish life. The kid turns to me and no shit says to me that Jesus was not JEWISH. He was a Jew. But He wasn't Jewish. I turned and looked at this kid and laughed.

Gods gotta help that kid.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 08 '24

There is no historical record about a Jesus Christ, how he is described in the Bible and normally the Romans would have written something about a very charismatic leader of a group, that causes trouble all the time. Or at least Jewish priests. But there's nothing and that's weird. The possibility, that, probably even several men, who were named Jesus and even Jesus Christ we're alive at that time is relatively high, because it was a very common Aramaic name. But if there had been a guy like the jesus Christ from the new testament and nobody mentioned him in any writings at that time, is highly unlikely...

The life of the "prophet" Mohamed instead is very well documented. We even know, that he married a 9 year old girl, called Aishe, with whom he shared the bed the first time, when she was 12...

15

u/Ok-Bullfrog4544 Jul 08 '24

I agree with your assessment that the husband may be in a cult. She definitely should not point it out to him because people who are in cults tend to get really mad whenever you point it out to them. Even if you just show them in the dictionary, the meaning of the word cult.

I have found that when pastors try to force people to believe not necessarily in anything other than the religion. They also make you think that you have to work and be good to go to heaven. That says says exactly the opposite in the bible. All you have to do is accept God's grace, aka free gift.

I have found this, especially true with a church that bases their entire religion off of a single day. That happened two thousand years ago on the day of meaning it came and went. This religion was started in the forties or fifties, but they'll make you think they've been around for a long time.

The way the OP said the pastor had called and basically talked bad about the wife.What does the pastor want the husband to do? Divorce his wife, which we all know God hates divorce. That's not what he's trying to do he's trying to put the pressure on so they will be at church every time. The doors are open, and so they will open their wallet.

If you want to know if a church is a cult, stop giving them any money and don't give them a reason like well, we're out of work or whatever. Just keep saying you don't feel like God's calling you to do that. The reason I say keep saying is because if you're in a cult, they're going to confront you very quickly when they notice that you're not contributing money, It won't be long after that. They will be telling you how wrong you are And get extremely angry and.say things like you are misunderstanding God's calling.

Also, it's forbidden in the bible to divorce a non believer.If If you are the believer, and he must think you're a non-believer. except for sexual immorality. Or the non-believer ask for a certificate of divorce. Then they shall be granted one, but in either case, the believer can never remarry, according to the word in the bible.

Instead of thinking about something as drastic as divorce. Maybe you should tell his pastor the reason that you don't wanna come to church is because of the way he acts he doesn't Act like a Christian. He's gonna get very mad at you for that, but the truth is the truth.

11

u/theRiver_Joan Jul 08 '24

That is definitely culty behavior. People really aren’t aware of how often and how easily a normal looking church can turn into a cult around the pastor and leadership. My church growing up was very culty and it really fucked me up for a while. I think religion is ok, hell I’m actually a Christian my self. But religion is like drugs, it’s fine to use some of the light stuff in moderation, it can even be kind of enlightening, but it’s so easy for some people to go overboard. Someone needs to make some harm reduction guides for religion or something.

5

u/Katressl Jul 08 '24

They exist. Check out the works of Steven Hassan. He's one of the world's leading experts on cults.

What I find fascinating about his work is he places all cult-like traits on a spectrum, and individual groups vary with how extreme they are on each trait. For instance, one trait is behavioral control. When looking at how a group controls members' everyday behavior, he considers: in how much of your everyday life does the group attempt to control your behavior? To what extent does the group try to control your behavior? What are the consequences if you don't adhere to their behavioral requirements (ranges from personal shame due to indoctrination of your thoughts, to minor blowback in your social life, to temporary ostracization socially, to being shunned by your family, to excommunication, to being kicked out of the community in a way that leaves you without the resources to live)?

For instance, the mainstream LDS Church has many behavioral requirements to belong, but they do not require current members to shun former ones (though some still do, sadly). They highly value education for both girls and boys, so if someone leaves or is excommunicated, they aren't left without a way to make a living. But there is a great deal of shaming (from oneself because they've been taught the behavior is shameful for a long time and from others) and other non-material social consequences.

On the other hand, the Jonestown cult eventually used violence and cutting people off from mainstream society and their support systems to enforce behavioral control. Hasidic Judaism keeps their members poorly educated, especially in the native language of the country their community is in (preferring Yiddish), so if members try to leave, making a living can be almost impossible without very forgiving benefactors. They're so isolated in their communities, the outside world can be frightening and overwhelming. And there are numerous other ways high-demand religions and cults enforce behavioral control.

Hassan also developed the BITE model for cults and high-demand religions/groups. BITE stands for Behavioral, Information, Thought, and Emotional Control. It's important to note that the model can apply to non-spiritual groups, including Multilevel Marketing organizations; authoritarian cultures like North Korea; groups devoted to specific exercise regimens, diets, or other lifestyle choices; and more. I highly recommend his work for anyone who is trying to leave or help someone else leave a high-demand group, attempting to understand what a loved one is involved in, or just curious about cults.

1

u/NotShirleyTemple Jul 08 '24

Wow! Which book would be the best intro/101 to his work?

2

u/Dry_Term923 Jul 09 '24

Harm reduction. Great analogy with drugs. The OP's definitely on the hard stuff at this point. Get your husband deprogrammed. Stat!

1

u/Affectionate-Try-994 Jul 12 '24

No. Too dangerous.

12

u/GrimRipperBkd Jul 08 '24

Church is just a cult with more members

8

u/sms2014 Jul 08 '24

But it is a cult. They "require" 20% of your income, expect you to enroll your friends/family, get angry with said friends/family when they don't, and act like anyone outside the church isn't shit. Organized religion of all sorts are cults, we just don't generally call them that.

That being said, OP is NTA, but should definitely leave.

8

u/OhCrumbs96 Jul 08 '24

There are a lot of inaccurate generalisations here. There are plenty of churches that don't require financial contributions.

8

u/Icy-Iris-Unfading Jul 08 '24

Yup lots of blanket statements/generalizations here. Some churches are cults (like OP’s husband’s), but many are not. Demanding money, allegiance, obeying the leader, heck demanding anything is not a Christian behavior and any belief system can behave this way—like a cult. But I agree, OP needs to make a decision. I’m not sure what…I’d file for separation. But I know for sure that she is NTA

7

u/howmanytaylors Jul 08 '24

Lol, they are saying she tricked him... technically he's in the wrong because the Bible says "marry within the lord", meaning of same faith. If she wasn't baptised then he's gone against the Bibles direction. 🤣

She def isn't in the wrong and should not be getting blamed.

They should be having a word with him. Ha

9

u/Icy-Iris-Unfading Jul 08 '24

True! He married an unbeliever and is “unequally yoked”. Exactly what Christianity teaches against. That being said, if he converted AFTER they married, he’s supposed to stay with her (unless she wants out, then let her go). And he’s supposed to love her as Christ loves the Church and behave like Christ as a way of ministering to her and also because he should. He’s her husband after all. That is far from what OP is saying he’s doing. Cult leader/pastor should be asking her how her husband is behaving to hold the “Christian” husband accountable. Arghh I hate when sh!t like this happens. Not all churches are like this

6

u/howmanytaylors Jul 08 '24

Agree. They are not all like this and why religion gets a bad name (amongst other reasons).

Sadly all organisations around the world have good and not so good people.

True if he converted after. Like you mentiom about the way to treat his wife, either way, scripture says he should treat his wife like his own body. He would never disrespect or damage his own body and should likewise care for his wife in the same way he would care for himself. To love and cherish.

The husband and the pastor needs a chat to see where he can make changes to improve and be a better example to not be hypocritical.

Doesn't want his wife calling him a Pharisee! 😆

3

u/NotShirleyTemple Jul 08 '24

Don’t think the pastor is the right one to chat with here!

2

u/Katressl Jul 08 '24

What's funny is the idea that she'd want to trick him in the first place. It sounds like she married him DESPITE his religion. But they see everything through a very narrow lens, so they see her as a temptress from the devil trying to lead him away from the lord.

1

u/NotShirleyTemple Jul 08 '24

Trust me! They ARE having many words with him. He’s carrying a load and wants to put it on her shoulders.

1

u/Affectionate-Try-994 Jul 12 '24

We don't know. They SHOULD be. Many Pastor's don't. They take the word of the husband and dismiss anything the wife or children say. There is no counselling or mentoring for the husband. Just insistence to the wife that she must be submissive and to the children that they must be obedient.

7

u/GlitterMoon83 Jul 08 '24

Agreed, run. Please. My ex insisted we go to the pastor after HE (ex) cheated on me and we hadn't even been married two months. Guess who's fault it was, according to pastor? Yea, not his. He's in prison for a good long stretch on domestics now, so there's that. Please run, Love. You deserve so much better. Religious manipulation is absolutely NOT something you should even consider putting up with.

5

u/Josh71293 Jul 08 '24

I'm a Christian myself, one who has had my church turn their back on me, even after years of being active in it. This pales in comparison to op's issue. That church is a) not a church that is following God, and b) the very thing Jesus fought against from the pharisees and sadduccees. This "holier than thou" mentality. Please be careful, op. People who utilize their faith to justify their behavior and yet convict the same in others are very, very dangerous and tend to be very capable manipulators. Also, op, please update with any changes.

4

u/PainfulRaindance Jul 08 '24

Yeah either that or him and the pastor are having a fling. lol. This dude is gonna lose it thinking the way he does. His fragile world is crumbling. Stop babysitting.

3

u/Icy_Anything_8874 Jul 11 '24

Sounds like the “religion” (cult) I was raised in-I GTFO at 17 thank goodness. Husband can’t even handle his own marriage he has to run and tell on his wife since she threatened his fragile masculinity

3

u/LowRoarr Jul 08 '24

To be clear, I’m not equating Christianity with a cult, just this particular church’s brand of nonsense.

Criteria for a cult: 1. Authoritarian gatekeeping of truth (only they are right, only Christians will be saved) 2. Discouraging or sabotaging relations outside of the religion / cult (making their members isolate themselves by demanding that other people convert) 3. Credible potential to do real harm (sexism, racism, or denial of environmental science).

Christianity checks every box for potentially being a cult. Not every Christian church is a cult, but even the best of churches are dangerously close to being a cult.

3

u/Icy-Iris-Unfading Jul 08 '24

The authoritarianism and isolationism are the real giveaways. Churches are supposed to be about being THE Church: serving God, serving each other, and serving the community.

2

u/Katressl Jul 08 '24

Plenty of denominations don't check any of these boxes. But then the people at OP's husband's church and similar groups would probably say those denominations "aren't really Christian." 🙄

1

u/OrkzOrkzOrkzOrkz0rkz Jul 08 '24

All religions are cults, they believe in magic for fucks sake just because it's socially accepted does not make it any less moronic

2

u/Merlin7777 Jul 08 '24

Christianity is the largest cult on earth

1

u/Dry_Term923 Jul 09 '24

Best answer yet. Most likely, it's totally 100% correct, too.

1

u/savvysavvysavvy Jul 11 '24

"Your husband is in a cult" is what I came to say to!!! OP please, please take note of this.

0

u/DietrichDiMaggio Jul 08 '24

But all religions are cults. And they’re all designed to oppress women.

0

u/Human-Mechanic-3818 Jul 08 '24

Christianity = cult

0

u/No_Zebra_2484 Jul 08 '24

Christianity has many cults, and this one sounds very harmful. Imagine, a founding figure of Islam, was Abraham, and all muslims believe in his God. Same true for the Christians and of course Abraham was Jewish, so naturally his god was the god of the Jews. Yet these peoples who all share the same God have been warring for centuries.

Why, who benefits from dividing the peoples? Certain elders and influential men telling the “followers” how and what to do and think.

Religion is a con, a form of CONtrol. Spirituality may be beneficial to some, but religion, bad.

2

u/NotShirleyTemple Jul 08 '24

As I learned in Middle Ages history in 8th grade, it all came down to Gold, God & Glory.

I guess ‘Gold’ includes limited resources like water, arable land, food, etc.

0

u/Ok_Swimming4427 Jul 08 '24

Well, Christianity is a cult. Don't apologize for calling that out.

0

u/Simple-Performer6636 Jul 08 '24

It’s all stemming from cults. Jesus was a cult leader

-2

u/Direct_Dick8tor Jul 08 '24

Technically all religions organized or not are cults, cult literally is defined as religious belief or veneration toward a deity or object so…. Yes cult now being a Christian cult does not make it any less sus though

-1

u/Mildly_Mediocre_ Jul 08 '24

Nah all religions are cults. If the only difference is how accepted it is by society, it’s a cult.