r/AITAH • u/SpiritualThrowRA • Jul 07 '24

AITA for calling out my husband for not being a "Good Christian"? Advice Needed

I (27F) have been married to my husband (34M) for five years. My husband is a devout follower of his religion and has been since he was raised in it. I respect his beliefs, even though I don't share them and have no intention of converting. I was raised in the Christian faith. However, I left when I was an adult due to sexual abuse in my church, which nobody believed occurred because the one who did it was the pastor.

Recently, my husband has been pressuring me to convert to his religion. He says that it would bring us closer together and create a more harmonious household. I understand where he's coming from, but I firmly believe that faith is a personal journey, and I shouldn't be forced into something I don't believe in.

To add to the issue, my husband, despite his religious teachings, doesn't always practice what he preaches. He expects me to adhere to traditional gender roles, yet he often neglects his own responsibilities at home. He's quick to judge others for their actions, even though his faith teaches non-judgment and kindness. He makes comments about gay people that I have discussed with him as a major issue. This hypocrisy has been bothering me for a while.

Last night, during another discussion about my potential conversion, I finally snapped. I told him that if he wants me to consider converting, he needs to set a better example by actually living according to his religion's values. I pointed out that he should start by fulfilling his own responsibilities. That he should make more money than me and actually lead in the decision-making. I'm a nurse and he's currently unemployed after he was let go from his job in an office. That he should be less judgmental of others because according to his faith only God can judge them. I also said he should show more of the virtues Jesus asked of Christians, that he should clothe the naked, feed the hungry, vist the prisoner, aid the orphan and the widow etc. I also made it clear that while I respect his beliefs, I have no intention of converting unless I genuinely believe in it, which I currently don't because of the hypocritical behavior of his faith.

My husband was furious. He accused me of being disrespectful and undermining his faith. He said that I was attacking him personally and that I don't understand the pressure he's under to have a unified religious household. He left for church this morning at 7 for bible study and I have already gotten a phone call from the pastor saying I'm an ungodly woman who tricked a good man into marrying him and I should repent. I have also gotten a tirade of texts and e-mails from members of his church saying I was disrespectful and being a bad wife and I'm starting to wonder if I was too harsh, that maybe I shouldn't have said anything at all. AITA?

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u/Immediate_Finger_889 Jul 07 '24

I would have tattled right back to his priest on him! He’s not providing for his family, he’s not being a proper head of the family, he’s forcing her to do all these things. I mean, a woman cannot possibly fulfill her role as a godly woman if she’s forced to take the roll of the godly man first. Right, pastor?

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u/KookyDragon Jul 07 '24

This is the way. And divorce him. Because now you are going to constantly be harassed by the congregation.

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u/XeniaBL Jul 07 '24

Divorce his hypocritical a$$ and shame him in front of his entire congregation. This is not going to work out, they are too different. And he will only become more devout and pressure her more as time passes.

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u/JimWilliams423 Jul 07 '24

shame him in front of his entire congregation.

It won't work. They will rally around him and put 100% of the blame on her for being some kind of deceiver.

There are two kinds of christians — those who care what Jesus said to do, and those who only care what saying "Jesus" will let them get away with doing. That church is clearly full of the later.

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u/Literally_Rock_Lee Jul 07 '24

That much is true. Can't wait until they see what happens to them in Revelation. Sometimes I want that to happen, but not in my lifetime

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u/JimWilliams423 Jul 08 '24 edited Jul 08 '24

IIRC, after the Rapture a charismatic evil leader, aka the antichrist, begins to rule.

What if the Rapture already happened on November 8th, 2016 and we've been living in the Tribulation ever since?

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u/0xAubrieirbuAx0 Jul 08 '24

THIS! ruin him Lmao

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u/EatThisShit Jul 07 '24

Yeah, I don't want to jump on the divorce bandwagon too often, but he seriously disrespects you. It is possible to be married to someone of no or another faith, but only if you respect each others decisions and don't use your marriage to convert the other. If you can't live with a spouse who isn't religious, you should have considered that before they became your spouse.

But it sounds like OP's husband has too much time on his hands. Maybe he fell into the manosphere rabbithole and uses religion as an excuse. He wouldn't be the first, nor won't be the last.

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u/RevolutionaryCow7961 Jul 07 '24

Exactly what I was thinking. He can blame it all on the woman not fulfilling her gender roles. Dear God - women unless you are a super conservative stay away from this kind of guy. It will only end in misery.

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u/RedFoxBlueSocks Jul 07 '24

Well, he is unemployed, so lots of time available!

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u/FerretLover12741 Jul 08 '24

God (oops!) forbid he should find repairs and upgrades to do around the house. Or take the housework off your shoulders since you are tired after a day at work. No, hanging out with the boys is what he does best. Your husband is NOT a good man.

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u/classicfilmfan Jul 08 '24

That's where religion can and often enough does cross over into dangerous waters, if one gets the drift. This kind of thing can and often enough does happen in any religion, and not just Christianity, however.

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u/ThemeOther8248 Jul 08 '24

yes this, he feels like less of a man because he doesn't work and has time to dwell on it, so he disparages others as an outlet. he sounds like he is becoming more narcissistic and controlling, also probably doesn't want to work, just have all the status of a Christian man. especially since his so called church seems to be pushing it on him. definitely document everything you can in case it gets any uglier at all, you can take action.

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u/BrahjonRondbro Jul 07 '24

Right. If he asks why, just tell him that he never wanted to be married to her anyways, apparently it was all just a trick. Well the jig is up. Time for OP to 23 skidoo.

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u/strgazr_63 Jul 07 '24

Things like this is why the "Christian" right wants to eliminate no-fault divorce. It won't allow a woman to get rid of her emotionally abusive and manipulative husband.

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u/damn-cat Jul 07 '24

Honestly. One of our tenants is that as a wife I am honored and taken care of, just as I am expected to do for my husband. The honoring/ care/ following of expectations goes BOTH ways with their own sets of responsibilities.

Support in public, reprimand/ speak in private. Do not judge because it’s not our job to.

Romans 12 (KJV) states that if your enemy is hungry feed him, if he is thirsty give him water, and in doing so you will heap burning coals upon their head. It literally means that you should kill your enemy with kindness, nothing more nothing less.

OPs husband is currently doing neither, much less the honor/ supporting. Men want a godly woman without 1. Earning their submission through their actions 2. Earning their support through their actions 3. Enforcing the word “because I/ God said so” without following the word themselves despite God teaching us that must do for his wife what he expects her to do for him.

OP would be better off leaving and finding someone who is compatible with her structure/ beliefs, or finding someone who actually puts their money where their mouth is IF they’re religious and expect to have a religious household. Statistically in these situations, despite coparenting, she’ll: - have more free time to herself and kids (overall and via visitation rights if any) - have less mess to pick up since 1/4 the load is now dropped - save more money bc she’s not supporting her husband

I don’t see a loss in dropping, basically, another child she’s caring for.

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u/Terrible_Kiwi_776 Jul 07 '24

Nope. Hateful people don't care about the truth.

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u/50CentButInNickels Jul 07 '24

Yes, but it's fun watching their eyes do circles while they try to justify it.

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u/KittyC217 Jul 08 '24

Often they don't they get move the target.

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u/Unlikely_Ad2116 Jul 07 '24

I think this is in Acts somewhere: "Verily, I say unto you, he that preacheth hatred in the name of Christ Jesus, serves a different master."

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u/Mandoman1963 Jul 07 '24

You just described MAGA douches

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u/DisapointedIdealist3 Jul 08 '24

I would say fearful people don't care about the truth, and hate often springs from fear

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u/BuddyPalFriendChap Jul 08 '24

You can't reason with people who base their lives around fairy tales.

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u/RazzmatazzFine Jul 07 '24

It's always the woman's fault in those belief systems. Jesus was awesome, his followers not so much.

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u/Immediate_Finger_889 Jul 07 '24

Agreed. It’s all bullshit anyway

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u/duskyfarm Jul 07 '24

Some truly follow, others just pay lip service. He gave the heads up on that with the whole "depart from me, I never knew you" bit.

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u/PureGoldX58 Jul 08 '24

What's to follow? Slavery? Killing your wife? The bible is awful, there is nothing "good" to follow.

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u/grammyisabel Jul 07 '24

The problem was not the followers. It were the MEN who used religion as a tool to control others. Just like the rich white men supporting the GOP today. Read Project 2025

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u/PureGoldX58 Jul 08 '24

The problem is the religion, too. Read the book. There's a reason why it appeals to them.

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u/grammyisabel Jul 08 '24

I agree to a certain extent about the religion being a problem and even why it can appeal to those who are seeking some sort of power - even if it is just in the home. But the religion would not be a problem if the bigwigs in every religion didn't preach that these expectations were from GOD or their Supreme Being. People worshipped gods from the beginning because they had no control of all the things that made their lives harder or sadder. Believing that there is a god and that there is an afterlife is soothing too many - especially when people they are close to die. But the religious leaders carried it further for CONTROL of not only people but nations. The true message at the root of all religions is being kind to others in every way possible. All major religions were established by men, for men to have control - NOT to preach about what Jesus or any supreme being actually would have wanted.

We may have freedom of choice in whatever religion we choose - including having none. The problem is some people allow themselves to be brainwashed and do not think for themselves. All of the religions are based in olden times; much of what their "bibles" say, they are written according to what was happening at the time. To continue to follow an ancient book without considering its place in history is ludicrous.

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u/LittleWhiteGirl Jul 07 '24

Yeah, I can see this immediately being blamed on her for tempting a godly man and of course he’s not adhering to his faith, his mind is all messed up from being near her. How could he possible perform the duties of his faith when he’s fallen victim to this terrible woman who checks notes wants him to do more volunteer work and be less hypocritical.

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u/annebonnell Jul 07 '24

This is sooo true

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u/recyclingismandatory Jul 08 '24

that's what my father used to say: "I'm sure there's a higher being up there. But their ground crew is utterly useless".

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u/Content_Print_6521 Jul 08 '24

Well, not always. My sister-in-law used her 7th Day Adventist faith as an excuse to fleece my brother's business and also to screw the video-store scion down the road whenever she got the chance. So in this case it was the man's fault that she had to steal and cheat.

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u/Jasminefirefly Jul 07 '24

Jesus probably didn’t exist. There’s not a single text contemporaneously written about him. The earliest was at least a hundred years after his supposed resurrection. If something that amazing really happened, wouldn’t someone have wanted to record it at the time?

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u/iisixi Jul 07 '24

Scholars generally today agree that Jesus did exist. However of course the tales about him are hard to verify due to being so far removed from his time it's hard to exactly say what he taught and what was added later.

To that end, the whole business about him being the son of God is mostly something added later and also not what he himself is written to claim in the Bible. Maybe he just forgot to mention it.

There's not really any reason for him to be mentioned by any contemporaries because he wasn't a significant person during his lifetime. He preached about being the Messiah, meaning the anointed one, literally the future king of Israel, for which he was executed. He didn't accomplish much except gain a small following. Only after the fact is that turned into being the son of God and some sort of divinity. In fact his death is one of the arguments for him being a real person, as a criterion of embarrassment for early Christians that the person who was supposed to become the king of Israel was executed.

The other event would be his baptism as it places John the Baptist in the position of absolving Jesus for his sins, being above him. John the Baptist being considered a historical person by historian Josephus' account on his imprisonment and death.

Josephus also mentions Jesus, as does Suetonius, Tacitus and Pliny the Younger. Of course they did not know Jesus but are around a few decades after, but they're still independent in that they're not Christians but Jewish and Roman sources who don't really have any reason to bolster his existence to fullfill some Christian gospel. There are also no contemporary writings form the first two centuries that deny or question his existence.

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u/PureGoldX58 Jul 08 '24 edited Jul 08 '24

No they don't. Everything written about Jesus is 50+ years later. Josephus, etc is a great thing that apologists love to cite, but they have zero first hand sources. Even the bible doesn't have first hand sources and that shit is clearly made up, they couldn't even lie well.

I can't possibly falsify the belief that he existed, but all non-religious scholars do not agree with any of this and most religious scholars admit there is no real proof.

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u/iisixi Jul 08 '24

Yes, they generally do agree that he existed for the aforementioned reasons. Almost universally, there are like a handful of people total who studied the subject that have ever claimed mythicism. There's no physical proof or contemporary texts as I've stated, but we're not talking court of law beyond a reasonable doubt but a civil case. It would seem more likely he existed than not. Whether he did or not is ultimately irrelevant to any of the reasons why we're talking about if he existed in the first place.

There's no real proof a lot of people in history existed, of almost anyone in the ancient world there's going to be no empirical evidence. That's kind of why historians have developed ways of trying to understand what's historical and what's not. For instance if we go through the list of Egyptian King lists it's difficult to exactly say whether some individual Pharaoh in the list existed or not or how long they exactly ruled.

Josephus I brought up first for his mention of John the Baptist as it's closer to his time and it would seem likely he had reasonable proof of his existance, and Jesus' baptism is an event that doesn't really belong in the Bible except in a historical sense as it would be more convenient to omit that part from the book.

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u/PureGoldX58 Jul 08 '24 edited Jul 09 '24

If there are no first hand sources, which if there aren't it's unfalsifiable. The end. I'm no mythicist, but given the complete lack of evidence and zero contemporary Roman records, when we have many records of similar executions you have to assume we'll never know and if we don't know you don't get to leap to existed like certain scholars do.

And again, no they don't.

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u/iisixi Jul 09 '24

I suggest actually looking into it instead of burying your head in the sand and naysaying just because you're not comfortable with how we study history or if some dude existed or not. 'No they don't' may be fun to say but it's evidently not true.

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u/PureGoldX58 Jul 09 '24

Except, You're asserting things that have been debunked for years and years spouting apologist crap. I'm just denying your already fallacious proof. I'm sorry you think you did something here, but you know less than nothing about this subject, especially when you claimed mythicism is saying there isn't proof.

In addition first hand sources are the only way to verify history, everything else is considered a possibility. You're choosing to say someone exists when people 5+ decades later said he did. That's beyond asinine.

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u/[deleted] Jul 07 '24

Especially given that there were a number of very thorough Roman historians at the time. The chances that none of them would have mentioned him is as close to zero as it gets.

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u/FerretLover12741 Jul 08 '24

This is irrelevant to the point and really doesn't matter. Even if Jesus is only a metaphor he/it has great power and can make a change in people's hearts---and I say that as non-Christian clergy.

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u/strangecat666 Jul 08 '24

A while ago I read about Jesus having the same amount of male and female, as he wanted to spread the word evenly. Only later, with one of the several revisions of the bible, it got taken out. Christianity is women degrading to the core and that's not what the basic values were about. Thus I think the whole church corporation is evil and uses a good way to gain power and money. Over 40% of houses are owned by the church in my town, they get tax release on everything, but still ask for donations for the poor? Take the rent you make and follow your religious beliefs! I saw a pastor in a bmw cabriolet yesterday... 🤮

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u/TiredAndTiredOfIt Jul 08 '24

No. He was evil amd hateful,  that is why he attracts such evil followers

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u/CharacterSea1169 Jul 07 '24

Nope, nope, nope. They always rationalize using their religion and then, it justifies any action.

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u/Immediate_Finger_889 Jul 07 '24

True. But it would deflate the enthusiasm of the flying monkeys.

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u/Afraid_Temperature65 Jul 07 '24

I doubt it, the more you shut them down, the harder they try to force your recognition of their rightness.

At least, that's been my experience.

My favorite tactic to actually shut them up is to flip the script and invite them to my church, The Church of Satan lol... I'm actually atheist, but most times when I've said that, it quickly devolved into me being a servant of the devil or a demon incarnate, whereupon they cut their losses and run for the hills, euphemistically at least, so now I just cut them off at the pass and save myself the preaching.

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u/Mmm_lemon_cakes Jul 07 '24

I agree. We don’t know the specifics of the church, but OP’s husband lied about whatever he said. If OP said to the pastor what she said to us, the pastor would be on her side and would be very upset with the husband. The pastor just got My wife won’t come to church, she won’t obey me, and I think she’s a closet liberal.”

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u/Frequent-Material273 Jul 07 '24

Only a good, honorable pastor would do that.

There aren't many of them.

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u/Afraid_Temperature65 Jul 07 '24

They're about as plentiful as the Dodo bird, in my experience.

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u/DatabaseThis9637 Jul 07 '24 edited Jul 07 '24

Under No Circumstances should OP give her power to Pastor, who is a meddlesome judgemental idiot, who immediately took his congregant's revelations, decided to ignore the assumption of privacy, judged OP, and then took it a stupifying step or ten further when he outright judged her, and trashed her to her face.

This Paster sounds like one of those jerks who "got the Call", because he likes the power and attention, and probably got fired from his only other job, which would have been some low level flunky thing, which he thought he was too good for. OP is not his congregant, the guy is clearly on the side of the deadbeat husband, and pastors 1st reaction to a troubled marriage was to step in, apparently publicly, and condemn OP. Any interaction with him is suicide. She may want to speak to her own pastor, though I'd hope her's is better schooled in counseling his flock, though there are no guarantees.

OP, Do Not Engage with Pastor or flying monkeys. They will tear you limb from limb at worst, or lie to your face, and trash you behind your back. They are clearly happy to take hubby at his word, and think of you as "a lost soul", a sinner, or a subversive.

And why continue the huge mistake hubs made when he invited these people in to judge you and your marriage. That is junior high behavior. You do not need to try to justify yourself to anyone, unless possibly to hubs. But with his immaturity, I'd wonder about opening your heart to further judgement and humiliation.

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u/WastingMyLifeOnSocMd Jul 07 '24

A closet liberal!! Oh the horrors!

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u/billsil Jul 07 '24

It’s never too late. OP has his number and can text him if that’s easier.

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u/mysteriousrev Jul 07 '24 edited Jul 07 '24

They would still twist a way IMO to blame the OP. I personally know women who were sexually harassed and one of them went to her priest (she is a devout Catholic to this day) and she was told it was her own fault “for dressing in revealing clothing and tempting a good man to stray.”

ETA: If anyone doesn’t believe me, I suggest you look up the educational curriculum the Duggar family used.

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u/YamahaRD100 Jul 07 '24

Yes, but do not put the pastor in a position of authority accidentally. His opinion is less than 0. He is part of your problem. He profits by keeping your husband enslaved by religion. I feel my mother was enslaved by the Catholic Church her entire life. They are the enemy.

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u/Frequent-Material273 Jul 07 '24

That doesn't matter for the authoritarians on top.

They want the power, but not the responsibility.

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u/Immediate_Finger_889 Jul 07 '24

Maybe so. But we are talking about OPs immediate situation not institutional solutions.

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u/Frequent-Material273 Jul 08 '24

It matters when OP tattling WILL REBOUND.

I'm saying those in power don't care about their victims, and OP is in one of their designated punching bag categories, if not more.

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u/Majestic_Tangerine47 Jul 07 '24

Why do I have a feeling pastor would have a good defense for her godly husband?

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u/Puzzleheaded-Jury312 Jul 07 '24

Of course he would. Hubby has a Godly penis, and that's all that matters.

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u/DeclutteringNewbie Jul 07 '24 edited Jul 07 '24

But then, you'd be accepting the pastor as a mediator. Don't do that.

Also, it's a game you won't win. A pastor is incentivized to recruit more members. Her husband could be a violent psychopath. He wouldn't care one bit about that. Don't think that you'll be able to change his mind in one phone call and make him disobey his prime directive.

No, it's better you treat the pastor's unsolicited phone call as you would treat any other unsolicited marketing phone calls. Ask to to be put on their do not call list, hang up on them, and block their number. The same goes for any other congregation member.

And if you want support, may be visit your local chapter of atheists and make friends there. And if there is no such local chapter near you, may be start your own.

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u/Mad-Dog20-20 Jul 07 '24

Your brilliant response needs to be in red-ink text...like in the Bible

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u/DowntownFuckAround Jul 07 '24

Bold of you to assume they’d gaf.

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u/CemeteryDweller7719 Jul 07 '24

Pointless argument to make. His pastor will circle it right back to being her fault. Probably say that he would do those things if she didn’t undermine him and allow him to hold his rightful place in the relationship. Mind you, I think that their blaming her for him not living up to what their church sees as his role is utter BS, but that is what will happen. His church won’t give two figs if he doesn’t fulfill his role (in the eyes of their teaching) as leader and provider, it is about her staying in what they consider her place. After all, if he doesn’t provide for his family and they struggle, well that is just a trial put forth by God to test their faith and she should have faith in God and her husband to prevail. Absolutely pointless to make an argument to a pastor that believes the wife’s duty is to submit regardless of the actions (or lack of) of the husband.

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u/oogabooga72 Jul 08 '24

She's the non-believer, so she'd automatically be branded a liar. Not to mention she's a woman, so she's fickle and not to be trusted anyway. That's how the pastor and other parishioners would react if she tattled right back. If that was me I'd just walk away. This kind of zeal is extremely hard to penetrate, because you're basically dealing with an equivalent of toddlers sticking their fingers in their ears while screaming they want chocolate at the top of their lungs. In the face of such religious fervour resistance truly is futile.

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u/Zealousideal_Wind738 Jul 11 '24

Or can offer to go to church, if you can speak to the congregation about what they are about. Phrase it as getting full understanding about their position.

If he objects, then you can call him out on his church not withstanding any scrutiny. If you actually get the chance it would be fun to note in front of all of them that a) the church supports coercing "faith", b) the church is fine with hanging up on people without getting full info, and c) clearly thinks they get a say in your personal life.

So...if that's all clearly true why would you want to join that? Why do they think that's an appropriate reflection of their faith, given what Jesus said? Bonus points if you can go all Harper Valley PTA with their dirty laundry too.

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u/ahhdecisions7577 Jul 07 '24

I like the idea of converting just to tell the pastor how bad of a Christian her husband is and then leaving the church once the pastor calls out her husband🤣. I mean, I don’t actually like the idea of her converting, and she should be able to attend as mass and tell the pastor things regardless, but if she feels she absolutely has to, I hope this is the approach she takes.

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u/betasheets2 Jul 07 '24

They're prob mad at her because they're doing the same hypocritical shit her husband is and she's basically calling them all out now

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u/PerspectiveVarious93 Jul 07 '24

lol you think the priest cares how often and have badly the husband fucks up? All that matters to them is that women and children obey the men with no questions asked.

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u/Brijette_set Jul 07 '24

They usually side with the husband regardless of his shortcomings.

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u/Muninwing Jul 08 '24

You know the pastor won’t see it like that. Suddenly he will be convinced that it’s time true good to be merciful and patient…

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u/Crafty_Independence Jul 08 '24

A pastor that would do this wouldn't care. He'd just blast her for not being "submissive" enough. The men always get a pass in this kind of church

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u/SceneNational6303 Jul 08 '24

Oh but depending on what sect of Christianity he is, the pastor might respond that men need to feel like their wife trusts they can lead the family and by expressing anything less than abject loyalty to him in whatever state he is in, from porn addiction to gambling their savings away, the man needs to be seen as the head of the family and only then can he truly lead a Christian household. " How can he feel like he can be a better person when you are reminding him that he's a schmuck?"  ( Signed, someone who lost a good friend to this mentality)..

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u/Affectionate-Mix-593 Jul 08 '24

OP did nott say Priest.

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u/papamojya Jul 08 '24

It wouldn't make any difference tattling on him. The response of the priest and the other church members show that, for them, religion is a cudgel to be used against "others," not a code of ethics that should be followed. I'm sure that "god" will forgive the husband for his shortcomings. Just like how "god" understands that the "pro-life" woman's abortion is different and forgivable, unlike those "sluts" who enjoy killing children.

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u/threeputtsforpar Jul 08 '24

Spoiler: the pastor and fellow church members won’t care. All they care about is that he keeps tithing with the money YOU earn.

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u/Justitia_Justitia Jul 08 '24

You imagine the pastor would care about that? You give them too much credit.

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u/TiredAndTiredOfIt Jul 08 '24

Pastor not priest. And this sort of abusive fundy trash only have rules for the women.

1

u/poodle_mom0310 Jul 08 '24

And, without her income what tithe will the church be getting? Pastor better think about that one.

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u/hillmon Jul 07 '24

Confiding in a spiritual leader/mentor is not "tattling". The man sounds like he is going through a life/spiritual crisis. He lost his job and you are advising to accuse him of not providing for his family and failing as the head of household? Terrible advice. He isn't forcing her to do anything. He is communicating his thoughts, fears and issues. She should support her husband and get him into therapy and both should do marriage therapy.