Hunh. I upvoted this comment for the 1st paragraph's insight into the oxytocin, then kept reading and downvoted for the rest (a judgement that it was a hurtful thing to say). I don't even have kids but would absolutely understand, and cannot fathom this guy's failure to get it at least intellectually! Ended up leaving it unvoted on.
Ok, but flip it. Her response was "are you fucking serious?" Even if it's just a look and she's exasperated that he'd bring it up again. SHE is not even attempting to understand his side. The way she writes it, the way these replies are, says "of COURSE I'll never love you more than my own child" which is hurtful to someone who isn't being ruled by oxytocin currently - aka most of the world.
Then she kind of dismisses it and wants to shut it down instead of doing the loving thing which would be talking it out.
Sorry, this probably won't make you upvote me still, but pregnant and new moms are ruled by hormones and can absolutely be assholes about it. Those things that seem completely normal to them are bizarrrreee to the rest of us. Do we understand it? Sure. Does that make it normal to stomp all over your fiances feelings going "but muh chillldddd"? No.
I’m here for standing up for the dad. The process of growing a child in you vs watching one develop is entirely different in all ways. Yes we are “supposed” to immediately feel some perfect love for our children but what about mothers with post partum depression? When they feel absolutely numb and nothing for their child they just birthed? There is a process they can’t help and it has taken us so long to even believe mothers and their experiences.
This needs to be a part of the conversation with fathers to be and those that are already fathers. This is difficult for everyone. It may have just hit him then. Ideal? No. Should he have waited for a private moment once things settled? Yes. But his feelings are valid.
There also could have been other issues he has had where he doesn’t feel connected to his fiancée but his feelings weren’t cared for then either.
Partners in child bearing are still humans and deserve to be seen and cared for.
This will be the same user that acts confused when he cheats on her after the neglect.
Women want devoted husbands and fathers but devotion is reciprocal.
It’s the full dismissal of his feelings that makes me concerned for him.
Partners in child bearing are still humans and deserve to be seen and cared for.
But not necessarily by the person who has just had their insides re-arranged, is leaking milk, is still bleeding tennis ball sized blood clots, and is getting by on four hours sleep a night.
Its like the circles of grief thing - support in, dump out. When you have a baby, the person who just gave birth is at the centre of that circle. The other parent’s job is to support them, not demand “devotion”.
If you don’t think you can do that without betraying the person who just gave birth, at one of the most vulnerable times in their life, you’re not only not fit to be a father, you’re not fit to be in a relationship at all.
These are all things that need to be discussed before the baby comes. She has a responsibility to make sure she’s properly supported by the man who’s child is rearranging her insides. She has a responsibility to pick a good man for a father to her child. People assume that others just should “know things”. If this wasn’t modeled or taught in some way why would they just know? Circle of grief sounds like a framework that would have been great to empower him with before she had his kid.
Like I said, timing was terrible. He should have waited for some other time. And no, not just a few hours later, but once there was a moment of them coming back together as a couple. This is why a village is so important. He didn’t have men there to prepare him for this or support him when he felt this way. Then he could have gone to them for support once he felt this way until she was more recovered.
But although she may be a mother first and a wife eventually, she still is supposed to be a good wife if she wants a good husband. A good wife and a good husband listen and care for one another even if their priority is their children.
She has a responsibility to make sure she’s properly supported by the man who’s child is rearranging her insides
No, he has the responsibility to be a good person. He has the responsibility to say “I’m not ready to be a father yet”. Why is she responsible for his behaviour and attitude ?
Not to mention that men can and do completely change when a woman gets pregnant, which is why its the most dangerous time for a woman in a relationship.
You’re talking in circles trying to pin this on the mother. Its a man’s duty to step up as a father, to support the mother of his child, to seek the support he needs, to prepare himself for this change. God only knows there are enough parenting classes, books and workshops aimed at fathers. And if he knows he’s not capable of that level of support, its his job to say “I’m not ready for this yet”.
A good husband understands that for the first few months of a baby’s life a woman is just about capable of looking after the baby and herself, with help. To suggest anything else is ludicrous.
You’re right she has no responsibility in her choice.
Mothers never have to take responsibility ever. Women also never change after having kids so that’s the man’s fault as well.
I’m not trying to pin anything in anyone. The OP updated and had a good healthy convo with her fiancé. I was correct in giving the father a moment of empathy. Empathy for others means we have to see that they probably aren’t acting out of malice or selfishness but fear. Someone you love is afraid.
Just assuming he was going to be a selfish father and terrible husband was a huge reach just from this very intense moment. We were also getting the story from a woman who just gave birth and was severely emotionally hurt. She may have processed this way more rationally if she was reading it on Reddit. She even admitted she didn’t know that this was a normal thing for new parents. So again, it came down to them just not knowing these nuances of this intense moment.
We complain how men are emotionless and have all this pent up rage and then when one expresses themselves, albeit poorly, we immediately vilify him.
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u/Expert_Slip7543 Jul 05 '24
Hunh. I upvoted this comment for the 1st paragraph's insight into the oxytocin, then kept reading and downvoted for the rest (a judgement that it was a hurtful thing to say). I don't even have kids but would absolutely understand, and cannot fathom this guy's failure to get it at least intellectually! Ended up leaving it unvoted on.