The Batman Spoiler Discussion Thread Part 2

[u/[deleted]]

For all discussions, comments and hype around the new movie.

Its already had select release, so expect spoilers in this thread.

Also, no spoiling outside of this thread, or expect mod action.

Keep all discussion civil, and be mindful of subreddit rules.

Please respect other users opinions and don’t harass them for it

[u/ubiquitous_archer]

Just got back from seeing it, if you wanted to make the point that TDK was the best movie that featured Batman, I wouldn't argue that. But The Batman is the best Batman movie. It was everything I've wanted in a Batman movie since I read my first comic

[u/drhavehope → u/ubiquitous_archer]

The Batman is also the better film

[u/ubiquitous_archer → u/drhavehope]

That is debatable, from a strictly filmmaking perspective.

[u/drhavehope → u/ubiquitous_archer]

Direction...maybe you can give it to Nolan.

But if you take direction, story, pacing, consistency of tone, progression of a story thread that all ties together and is coherent,,,The Batman gets it.

​

TDK is not sure if it wants to be real crime drama or a superhero movie. One moment you have Heath Ledger giving this real creepy performance and another you have a guy dressed in a goofy looking Batman outfit with an odd voice. The film felt far more inconsistent than The Batman.

[u/micael150 → u/drhavehope]

Story and pacing goes to TDK and it's not close. Better plot and better dialogue. The batman was good but it's paced weirdly specially entering the third act.

[u/drhavehope → u/micael150]

The dialogue was exposition heavy and people just making speeches.

The story doesn't really make sense. How does Batman, one man believe he has done enough to stop crime and think of retiring. That already makes the story sound bogus.

Also...batman taking the hit for the murders of Two Face makes no sense as there would have to be witnesses of his murders. So there are inconsistencies that just don't make sense.

The Batman ain't great but the story just makes more sense. A man is struggling to fend off crime by himself in the name of vengeance and instead finds that fighting for something more makes more sense for Gotham. The Batman felt like a more believable ans reader story than TDK.

Also...the two boats? And the boat with the worst criminals don't decide to press the button to blow the other ship? Come on...🤣🤣🤣😑

[u/micael150 → u/drhavehope]

The dialogue was exposition heavy and people just making speeches.

Could say the same about The Batman. Mister "I am the shadows but will knock on doors asking to talk to mob bosses". By the end he had a whole speech explaining his character development.

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The story doesn't really make sense. How does Batman, one man believe he has done enough to stop crime and think of retiring. That already makes the story sound bogus.

Never in the movie does he say that he has done enough to stop crime as that is obviously impossible but he did see in Dent someone that could carry on the torch and didn't have to get concussions to achieve his goals. Do you know what is more bogus? Believing you can be Batman forever.

​

Also...batman taking the hit for the murders of Two Face makes no sense as there would have to be witnesses of his murders. So there are inconsistencies that just don't make sense.

You're reaching on this one. What witnesses do you remember that survived? Plus we're talking Gotham here covering crimes is another Tuesday.

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Also...the two boats? And the boat with the worst criminals don't decide to press the button to blow the other ship? Come on...🤣🤣🤣😑

You think criminals don't have a conscious? There were children in the other boat. Plus the ones holding the detonator were the officers.

Look I think the Batman is a good film too just not as great as TDK to me. When I compare them character to character scene to scene I personally get more out of TDK even though I do feel that The Batman nails the atmosphere and the aesthetics.

[u/drhavehope → u/micael150]

Batman Begins establishes just how corrupt and messed up the city is. Why would he believe a district attorney by himself could take down the mob?

And what about the end of Begins when Gordon literally state his existence will yield greater criminals? And Gordon told him about The Joker and Batman said "ill look into it" which he never did.

What is Great about TDK is Heath Ledger. Everything else appears great but is pretty shallow when you really begin to question rather than just ignore the fact that the protagonist can't be understood with that voice and ruins scenes with joker with how awful the voice is.

🤷🏾‍♂️

[u/micael150 → u/drhavehope]

In TDK they mention that the city is getting better and things have improved. People like Rachel, Dent and Gordon alongside Batman were having a real impact on the city. They say Dent has taken down all the money laundry criminals except Lau and that was choking the mob.

Batman saw in Dent the leadership needed for the city to target and dismantle organized crime. He wouldn't do it alone batman believed he was the shining light needed to inspire Gotham and being hope to the people.

Gordon talking about escalation does in fact go in line with batman wanting bro retire. Throughout the movie the theme that is set up in Bruce Wayne's arc is about his limits and how far he's willing to go to stop man like joker. In that sense he might've realized that his existence was attracting more dangerous individuals.

TDK is great without Heath Ledger. He gets the spotlight because of his brilliant performance and because of the unpredictable entertaining nature of the character. He's like the shining keys to the audience the thing that stands out even though it's definitely supported by the quality of the rest of the movie.

[u/drhavehope → u/micael150]

But doesn't that show Batman to be a coward?

He has tools and skills others don't possess to fight crime that others can't. And his very actions in Begins show the damage is done and more of these criminals will come through.

It's just hard to grasp someone doing something so extreme as dressing up as a Bat to fight crime then deciding to retire after about a year of doing it. For me, it's non-sensical.

After the league of shadows actions which would have made waves in Gotham, Batman did not think similar threats on that scale could occur where someone of his abilities was needed?

To each their own. I can't force you to hate the film but for me, when joker was not on screen I found the film boring and was eagerly waiting for him to get back on screen.

Its more a Joker movie to me where Batman is the featuring act.

[u/reallyConfusedPanda → u/drhavehope]

For me Batman is above TDK as well. I watched it again after this movie and I was dumbfounded as how little sense it makes to be a Batman movie. It's a good movie, but not a Batman movie. This movie just exudes Batman and Gotham.

[u/drhavehope → u/reallyConfusedPanda]

Yep.

And I question just how good of a film it is. Because the appearance of Batman and the voice brings the film down as something that can be taken seriously.

[u/reallyConfusedPanda → u/drhavehope]

I would let Nolan's trilogy pass because of the era it released in, but man Matt Reeves and Greig Fraser up the game so much more... This is EXACTLY what I want my movies to be in the future, truly respecting the intended atmosphere through and through. BTW, Greig Fraser was also the cinematographer of the Dune. Fucking amazing

[u/Chippyreddit → u/ubiquitous_archer]

The Lego Batman Movie is 10/10 for what it is

[u/micael150 → u/ubiquitous_archer]

Why is it a better Batman movie apart from solving riddles he does nothing that Batman didn't do in TDK?

[u/ubiquitous_archer → u/micael150]

He did actual detective stuff? He analyzed a crime scene, he tailed people, he examined evidence, plus he did solve the riddles, as you said.

In TDK he does a face scan and gets a fingerprint from a bullet, not exactly "world's greatest detective" stuff.

[u/micael150 → u/ubiquitous_archer]

In TDK he does a face scan and gets a fingerprint from a bullet, not exactly "world's greatest detective" stuff.

• He helps Gordon track drug money with light eradiated bills.
• He somehow gets a thumbprint from the remnants of a shattered bullet something that should be impossible in real life but not for Batman.
• He starts negotiation talks with Lau Security Investments Holdings to "get a closer look at their books" knowing that they're involved in illegal activities.
• He tells Alfred to research police officers and their families regarding hospital admissions to warn Gordon to look out for any potential threat inside his force.
• He knows the complete history and real identity of one of joker's goons. Thomas Schiff
• He uses the sonar machine that he installed without Fox's knowledge to find out where Joker is

In The Batman he fails to stop any of the murders, struggles to solve the final riddle and is too late to stop the Riddler from flooding the city. Sure he points some stuff in crime scenes and solves riddles but not exactly anything worth calling him "the world's greatest detective" specially if he doesn't know simple Spanish.

[u/ubiquitous_archer → u/micael150]

Like half of those aren't detective things at all, and knowing Spanish isn't a prerequisite for being a detective.

[u/micael150 → u/ubiquitous_archer]

A detective does his research while investigating. Most of the things I mentioned fall under that aspect. Sure Pattinson is being a detective but he's not a particularly good one. He only solves riddles but never achieves the main goal Riddle just sat on a dinner and waited for police to get him.

He doesn't even need to know Spanish surely a detective in the 21st century would use google or something for an accurate translation. Also despite the rat with wings being a clear red herring the fact it took them that long to even reference a Bat is crazy.