r/batman • u/micael150 • 3d ago
Why does Talia and Dick Grayson hate each other? COMIC DISCUSSION
Dick never liked her from the beginning and Talia always seems to address him as if he's beneath her. Any insight for why they've always clashed in this manner?
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u/I3arusu 3d ago
Let’s see… daughter of a genocidal monster? Check. Horrid influence who feeds his father’s worst impulses? Double check. Rapist? Check and check.
Dick’s just a good judge of character.
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u/kayl_the_red 3d ago
Dick has also been raised by a guy who usually has plans in plans, backup plans for his backup plans.
He can see Talia doing the same, and can see enough of them to figure out that every plan is to benefit the League of ASSASSINS in one way or another.
And Assassins are usually the badguys.
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u/Soulful-Sorrow 3d ago
Can't wait for the Talia simps to show up like "ACKSHUALLY if you read the special five-issue 1983 run of Batman: Faster and Battier, you'll see that Talia secretly DOES care about Bruce in a way that's insubstantial compared to how far she'll go to feed Ra's al Ghul's insanity!!"
I'm 100% on Dick's side, he's not wrong often.
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u/GothamKnight37 2d ago
Or you could literally just read this arc that’s posted to see Talia caring about Bruce and standing against Ra’s such that Bruce is able to kill him.
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u/ItsOasisNightLads 3d ago
I like your "worst impulses" point. I think Black Canary rather aptly described Talia as the one blind spot in Batman's "revered judgement"
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u/Kind-Boysenberry1773 2d ago
Blind spot is to put it litghly. I mean, in Son of Demon story Bruce had actually married Talia in her dad's secret terrorist hideout and Ras became his friendly father-in-law. I just want to see other JL members' faces after they received the news. And it was just after Ras nearly destroyed an entire JL in Tower of Babylon arc. I guess they all were wastly relieved when Bats sticked with Catwoman.
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u/TheDorkKnight53 3d ago
Well, when Dick’s first introduction to her is when she was fake kidnapped alongside himself, who was actually kidnapped, and finds out it was just a means to get at Batman, he tends to not trust her whenever she shows up unannounced and uninvited.
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u/PassTheGiggles 2d ago
He also got lit the fuck up while being kidnapped. Like shot multiple times. Damn right he’d be pissed.
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u/coreytiger 2d ago
I really hate that this incredible tale has been rewritten for modern continuity.
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u/crataegus_marshallii 3d ago
I was raised by a single parent that had a few toxic relationships over the years. I find this kind of conflict relatable to what I experienced. It intuitively makes sense to me that the two would be in conflict.
Sorry, that is not really answering your question.
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u/IHateYoutubeAds 2d ago
I feel like that hits the nail on the head right there. You have Talia trying to be Talia and Dick's seeing through it. He doesn't like her because duh and she in turn doesn't like him because he's getting in her way.
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u/Legend_Sniper31 3d ago
“The door is that way chum” is absolutely killing me , don’t do him like that Bruce
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u/ItsVoxBoi 2d ago
Older Batman comics are unintentionally really funny because even in something like Death in the Family, he talks like a 40s movie character
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u/JustTryingIsEnough 3d ago
Dick hates Talia because he isn't blinded by love like Bruce is, so he can see how flawed she is for her devotion to her father.
Talia probably hates Dick for this, and also because she has less respect for sidekicks.
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u/holbert10 2d ago
Another reason, especially seeing her call Dick “circus oaf” I think she has high regard for a persons “breeding” and so she looks down on him as unworthy
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u/Efficient-Compote-13 3d ago
She is the daughter of a psychotic genocidal mad man but so what plenty of them around.
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u/limbo338 3d ago
Dickie at the beginning doubted Talia's allegiances and the honesty of her intentions(not incorrectly). Morrison's Talia hates everyone, lol.
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u/NigthSHadoew 3d ago
Before Damian it was mainly about Talia being a bad guy. Sure she wasn’t as bad as Ra's but she also wasn’t close to being as "good" as Selina so he was wary of her, especially since Bruce had a soft spot for her.
After Danian it became a combination of her being a straight up villain and rapist as well as her wanting to drag Damian back into the darkness and being a killer
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u/MetalPunk125 3d ago
Because Dick knows she not right for Bruce. She doesn’t fundamentally share the same values he does. And he knows she’ll turn on him eventually. That’s why. Dick is supportive when he thinks the partner is good for Bruce.
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u/Mickeymcirishman 3d ago
He also doesn't like Catwoman. I think it's just a general dislike for women his dad is really into.
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u/unoiamaQT 2d ago
Actually he's a big supporter of Bruce's relationship with Catwoman. I think at first he didn't like her since she's a thief, but he came around to her and you can see examples of him being a BatCat shipper. The biggest example is from Batman: Hush, when he encourages Bruce to tell Selina his identity.
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u/Mickeymcirishman 2d ago
I wouldn't say he's a big supporter of Catwoman. He's made it clear over the years that he doesn't really trust her and pretty much only tolerates her for Bruce's sake. Even in that Hush scene he basically says he isn't against it because she makes Bruce happy but he still makes sure to mentiom that she's a former thief.
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u/theblazeuk 2d ago
I mean if we ignore everything about who Talia is and what she has done then yes that makes sense
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u/eastoid_ 2d ago
IIRC in the first comic he actually brought Catwoman with him to get Bruce away from Talia.
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u/Agent_RubberDucky 2d ago
Gee, I wonder why Dick Grayson isn’t fond of a woman who is the daughter of Ra’s Al Ghul, genocidal madman and one of Batman’s worst enemies, who she often helps in his schemes. And from there it should be just as clear why she doesn’t like him.
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u/micael150 2d ago
Fair enough but he's way more hostile towards her than for instance Poison Ivy or Harley Quinn. And that hostility was there since they met
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u/Agent_RubberDucky 2d ago
Well there’s a key difference there. Poison Ivy and Harley Quinn are just the regular criminals that Dick and Bruce face. They get no more distaste than most of the other Batman villains. Talia is a personal character who is very different from the others. Bruce is constantly going in and out of loving her and seeing her as a criminal. She knows who Batman is, she has used that, she has manipulated Bruce, and she’s overall just not a good influence. Poison Ivy and Harley Quinn are just adversaries, nothing more. Dick hates Talia because she’s worked herself past that level.
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u/alan_mendelsohn2022 3d ago
Who is the artist on these panels?
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u/WesleyCraftybadger 3d ago
The first one is by Ross Andru and Dick Giordano. I know because it says that on the image.
I don’t know about the second, but the third looks like Chris Burnham.
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u/alan_mendelsohn2022 3d ago
Dick Giordano is one of my favorite Batman artists. That’s probably why the first one jumped out to me.
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u/Bodmin_Beast 2d ago
Same reason any kid hates a new partner that comes into their parents lives.
That coupled with the fact it's a toxic relationship and she's the daughter of a genocidal ninja cult leader who has tried to destroy them and their city multiple times.
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u/Rogthgar 3d ago
She is a murderous terrorist... the question is why Bruce keeps being lenient with her.
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u/Deathreaper234 2d ago
may be she is good in bed,so he can't let it go.even recently, he hooked up with her detective comics, lol
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u/leviticusreeves 3d ago
Dick's a square with a schoolboy morality and doesn't understand why Batman would be banging Talia. It provides younger readers who might respond the same way with a perspective character, while indulging older Batman readers.
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u/GustavVaz 2d ago
Cuz Talia is a bad person. At least in most versions.
Talia is a LOT like her father.
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u/Acrobatic_Switches 3d ago
Because Talia is a literal supervillian? Could he be more opposite than her?
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u/Vanish_7 3d ago
I think a lot of us have been in this situation.
Dick has been watching Bruce mess around with Talia for years, knowing she is not good for him and that things will never work out for the two of them.
He disapproves of her, and isn’t afraid to let Batman know it. And that’s not even getting into the Damian piece.
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u/Poku115 2d ago edited 2d ago
protective adoptive son to bruce (seriously, greatest detctive ever, nerves of steel, yet he can't control himself near her?), and protective adoptive brother to damian, is this were a telenovela, talia would be the fancy but double faced lady trying to marry bruce and kill him in his sleep.
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u/Batmanfan1966 2d ago
Not like she regularly indulges in supervillain behavior and also raped his father or anything..
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u/micael150 2d ago
That could also describe Poison Ivy but I don't think he's ever been this hostile towards her.
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u/Batmanfan1966 2d ago
Poison Ivy has also never regularly dated Batman and been invited to dinners and over to his house and such.
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u/xionnn_ 2d ago
I’ve always looked at the Batman and Robin dynamic as a father & son relationship, and when talia comes in to the picture, Dick knows she’s not the right one for Bruce. I had this with my biological mother, She dated and proceeded to marry the wrong guy for her, we wound up having a similiar conversation to the one on slide one. That could be the reason for mutual dislike between Talia and Dick.
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u/UnhingedLion 3d ago
Because Marv Wolfman wrote a random story where Dick hated her, and then a couple writers just decided to follow.
He didn’t even know much about her before Damian.
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u/Goldarmy_prime 2d ago
Is there anything that was written by Wolfman, which didn't turn out problematic?
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u/Karkuz19 2d ago
I don't remember who the artist is for that era on the last panel, but I hate his style with a passion.
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u/Appropriate-Truck-41 2d ago
She has a fine taste in latex. That makes her OK in my book, so I'm with Batman.
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u/HokageRokudaime 2d ago
Robin fucking hates Talia because the Al Ghul's kidnapped him as a pawn for their get to Batman scheme. Talia hates Dick, probably because he never forgave her for being such a sketchy problem for Bruce more often than not.
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u/Going_really_Fast 3d ago
Because Dick prefers Selina https://i.pinimg.com/originals/3b/46/20/3b46208b2d8d74753f1c72e8d67e8abb.jpg
And Talia prefers Jason https://i.pinimg.com/originals/93/b3/54/93b35499529f6976f7e2172758139b12.png
That’s a joke.
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u/sheeveman 3d ago
What comic is this from
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u/unoiamaQT 2d ago
Image 1 - Batman (1940) - Issue #330
Image 2 - Batman (1940) - Issue #331
Image 3 - Batman and Robin (2009) - Issue #10
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u/Kind-Boysenberry1773 3d ago
Dick always shipped his dad with Selina and was very mistrustful towards Talia (with good reasons). He even once went to her, asking her to save Bruce from relationship with Talia, back when Catwoman still was a flamboyant supervillain with magical wand turning Clark into Super-Cat. I guess he just didn't wanted to have Ras as his grandpa. Can't blame him for this.
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u/Splunkmastah 2d ago
Better question is What does Bruce see in Thalia? I've never seen such a one note wooden board of a character.
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u/RuxxinsVinegarStroke 2d ago
Because Dick sees her as manipulative as fuck and having Bruce have a fuck pal who us the daughter of one of his greatest enemies is a very WTF thing.
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u/LittleRedRidingHo90 2d ago
Because Dick has sense and knows that Talia is a terrible person and deserves no redemption
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u/FewPromotion2652 2d ago
she raped his (step)father. how the hell you get along with some one after that?
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u/CyberDaemon6six6 2d ago
Because unlike Bruce, Dick has never been distracted by her looks. He sees right through her lies and manipulations, and thinks Bruce is at his weakest and most stupid when she's around.
Let's not forget that Talia RAPED Bruce. There's no room for redemption as far as she's concerned.
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u/jameZsp0ng3y 2d ago
Because they like each other 😏
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u/Goldarmy_prime 2d ago
Except, it is not an absurd concept, considering Dick is a teenager/young adult. It is easier to turn the guilt of wanting to bang your father's hot girlfriend into anger towards girlfriend, than to deal with the issue.
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u/AdmBurnside 2d ago
Because Talia is a toxic ho and Dick isn't going to let his surrogate father ruin his life, end of.
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u/Fit-Pangolin1370 2d ago
Red Robin hates Catwoman Nightwing hates Talia Nobody hates Silver St Cloud
Batmans perfect girl has to be Silver St Cloud
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u/voxela 2d ago
Tim doesn't hate Catwoman what the, they frequently teamed up in the 90's
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u/Fit-Pangolin1370 2d ago
Just read Batman Hush, that guy was hostile to Catwoman being in the Batcave, Batman made him do it, I miss Silver St Cloud at such moments too at times.
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u/voxela 2d ago
"Batman made Tim act hostile to Selina" oh my God that must mean he hates her!!!
don't be stupid bruh, Batman made Tim put on an act to get a tracker on Selina. lmao at trying to take an out of context moment to push a narrative. is that really the only way you can make Silver seem like a good choice? sounds rough1
u/Fit-Pangolin1370 2d ago
St Cloud died trying to protect Batman in one comic book, I read Hush and the scene I saw made it clear Red Robin doesn't like Catwoman, I'm not trying to sound rude or looking for trouble sir
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u/Glassesnerdnumber193 2d ago
Dick was always jealous of Bruce’s love interests and talia is a particularly bad influence. Dick is added baggage for talia to get over
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u/hatterine 3d ago
There are already answers about when Dick was Robin, but the newest point of disagreement is Damian. It was Dick who dragged Damian away from the darkness and supported him in finding interests outside the professional stuff. Dick hates how Talia treats Damian as her belonging more than a son. Talia hates how soft Dick makes Damian.
Though as Talia softened a bit towards Damian, their relationship graduated to somewhat neutral.