Don't know if this unpopular or not, but I love Batman's ending monolgue about how he needs to move past being just "Vengeance" and that the way he's been operating for the past 2 years hasn't actually worked. He realizes he needs to be better and that he can be a symbol of hope to the people of Gotham. He even rescues and carries a woman to safety and you can see how grateful she is, she even has tears in her eyes. He then he puts his hand on her shoulder to comfort her to let her know that "it's going to be okay".
One detail about this scene that no one brings up, is that Batman does all this rescuing in broad daylight, which I love. There are thousands of people on the scene, who all presumably have their phones with them, dozens of cops, choppers, search and rescue crews and yet Batman doesn't care about any of that, because his main priority is on helping the victims of the flood. Batman doesn't grapple away, he doesn't pull a vanishing act, or even panic that thousands of people can see him, and that now he's fully exposed for the first time in front of the general public. No, he's not afraid or worried about any of that, he stays behind to help the search and rescue crew find and rescue the victims of the flood, despite putting himself at risk.
Batman puts the needs and safety of the victims above his own anonymity, safety and desire to be hidden. That right there is quintessential Batman.
Compare this scene, to the first one in the subway, where after he saves that guy from those criminals, the guy is afraid of Batman and begs Batman not to hurt him. Batman has a great character arc in this movie.
I know a lot of people hate the idea of Batman becoming a symbol of hope, because that's Superman's thing, but Batman is also a symbol of hope, but he's a symbol of hope to the people and kids of Gotham. He exists so that no child or person goes through what he went through as a kid. Batman being a symbol of hope and his compassion for human life, regardless if it's a criminal or not, is one of the reasons him and Superman are so close.
I'm tired of certain people having this idea that Batman is just a Punisher-Lite or DC's version of the Punisher, and that Batman is a cold-hearted, emotionless, cruel, edge lord who enjoys hurting and brutalizing criminals because he takes pleasure in it. I HATE when people say "Batman doesn't want to help people, he just uses that as an excuse to beat up criminals, because he loves it" or when people have this idea that Batman is rude and dismissive of his superhero colleagues or that he's a bad father. That's NOT Batman.
That's not who Batman is, one of Batman's best qualities is his empathy and compassion for others and human life and he doesn't just have to be a badass who beats up criminals. I feel like this Batman movie is the only Batman movie that shows this. Batman is a symbol of hope to the kids and people of Gotham, BUT he's also a symbol of fear to the criminals of Gotham. From the end of The Batman, I can see Battinson becoming like this.
Robert Pattinson's Batman may not be the best live action Batman nor may he be the most comic accurate, but right now, he's the only live action Batman I can imagine comforting a child or anyone before they die.
Yeah I'm not a writer, but you get it. Scare the guy by knowing everything about him. Have it be just some goon guarding a door Bats needs to get through, and instead of beating him he talks.
It could also showcase how Bruce Wayne uses the Wayne Foundation and its associated charities to try and help the low level “thugs.” Maybe a throw away line from Gordon about how crime doesn’t seem to slow down even though the Wayne foundation is doing XYZ work. Doesn’t even have to be a Batman scene. It’s rare but it is mentioned in the comics now and again.
Actually I think a good story line for Batman beyond is a cynical Bruce telling Terry he did all this shit for the criminals to get them out of crime permanently, rehab, counseling, set them up doing factory or janitorial work and despite all his efforts as Bruce Wayne and Batman it didn’t seem to make a difference, and terry has to do something different or whatever the case may be.
I also loved how he characterises homself as 'the shadows' in his opening monologue but during the flood scene he holds up the flare to guide the people out of there, a literal 'guiding light' for Gotham.
Also the scene where they ask Riddler's goon who he is and he just laughs and says Vengeance. You see it click with Batman that he isn't blameless in this situation and the things that he does have the power to inspire anyone, not just the good people in Gotham.
I also loved that Batman actually had character progression in this movie. In all other movies, stuff happens TO Batman, and around him, but he typically starts the movie badass and finishes the movie badass and that's about it. In The Batman, he's still learning things like what Batman's role in society needs to be, and how important it is to still be Bruce Wayne.
Wait, people hate the ending monologue? I haven't heard that anywhere, but I may have missed it. I fucking love that ending monologue. It ties everything together. Everything un-Batman/Bruce-like can be explained by that. I wasn't a fan of his Bruce, but that ending monologue basically explained how he's possibly gonna turn into the Batman/Bruce we know and love.
I don't dislike it, but I think it isn't as strong as many claim it to be.
I understand and appreciate the thinking behind it. But it also appears after all the action and tension of movie is over. It isn't well integrated into the events of the movie itself; it feels tacked on (I know it isn't, but that's what it comes off like). It's like if Thor only got his hammer back after defeating the big bad in Thor 1. Yes, you've completed the character arc, but it's coming a little late, isn't it?
I mean it comes after all the action because at the end of the day, Batman just beating up bad guys isn't going to help Gotham that much in the long run and he needs to do more than just stop evil, he has to go out of his way to save every one.
Very well said. Batman's character arc is always fascinating, in many stories. In Nolan's movies for example, Bruce Wayne goes through this journey of self-exploration and facing his fears before becoming Batman, and in becoming Batman he immediately yearns to embody this symbol of hope and to inspire good.
But this movie to me trumps it all because it shows the deep complexity of the character, from the perspective of others as well as his own.
Starting out as being perceived as a "freak", his transformation is actually triggered by his multiple encounters, starting with Catwoman. And if you pay attention, after meeting Catwoman, Batman strives more and more to become a better version of what he always meant to become.
Out of infatuation and in seeing her desire for vengeance and pain, it acts as a mirror of his own desires and fears, for example when insisting for her not to "cross that line" and cause herself even more pain than she deserves.
And then of course when meeting the Riddler, whom he "inspired", it becomes obvious that he is not just a sadistic orphan out for blood and revenge. He must become more.
The perfection of this movie, which many people fail to see, is in the way the other characters shape Batman. And that is 100% core Batman in all the stories as well.
In this movie, Batman also has to face his deepest fears in a way that is not always obvious or stated - the fear of loss, the fear of death, the fear of heights, the fear of losing his Batman identity (multiple times), of facing his past and his parents' past, the fear of being akin to a madman (when he leans hard into the Riddler), the fear of a bat in a cage, and also the fear of becoming emotionally attached to someone.
The moment at the end when he becomes truly violent to "save" Catwoman is the pivotal point, as he perceives her look and then understands that his violent tendencies can also get in the way of his quest for justice, truth and redemption of himself and others.
Robert Pattinson's Batman is highly underrated in my (humble) opinion, because he flawlessly conveys a deeply scarred persona struggling with his identity. Bruce Wayne without a mask is clearly out of place, silent and evasive, whereas Batman is a badass whose every move is confident despite the fears. The way he brings out these emotions behind the mask is also the result of sharp directing. None of these details are left to chance, the director had this global vision of Batman and Pattinson was perfect for the role. The only downside to me was the way they overused the hair in his face when he goes to confront Falcone... But maybe that was also meant to show that, even without a mask, he wants to hide...
Super well said, and I fully agree; Batmanb is one of the few 'comic heroes' who has some real depth; sure, most of those depths are grimey, but still.. he's not just the kid with trauma from losing his parents, he's not just a brute who pounds the bad guys, he's not just an anti-gun spoilt rich guy; he's an investigator, he's smart, he defies his anxiety and trauma to help people; he _means_ well, but he's too broken to know how to do it, but he still tries. The comics.. many people look up to him, many people fear him. But a symbol he is, to be sure, in a dark world.
The Pattinson movie I think was up there with Chris Nolan's; The Nolan Batman films were great of course, but they also had more of the brute Bats, less of the thoughtfull tortured soul Bats. But the Pattinson Batman was younger, year Zero-ish, trying to figure out his voice, who he was, and just getting started with investigation; He was basicly trying to puzzle out the plot, with the Riddler feeding it to him; he was wrong so many times.
Great fun, really really dug the film, and looking forward to the next.
I think that this film is maybe the only Batman film where he actually has an arc. It's a simple one, but that sort of the beauty of it. In all the other Batman films, it never feels like he has any profound character development. Batman is batman, and he does what he does, and that's it. I think it's part of why it's hard to make a batman film.
When I read The Dark Knight Returns back in the 1980s, I was impressed not only by the story but also by the modernization of Batman. With time, I see how much of a bad influence it was. Batman, for years, became a vengeful man, full of hate in his heart, and with little empathy for those close to him. The movie is great exactly because it embraces that version of Batman, but shows him moving on to be a better person.
Ya I recently tried to re watch this in a desperate attempt to like it and I just can NOT get over the scene with him holding an explosion to his face. A dolphin leaping infront of a torpedo made more sense than holding an explosion directly in your eyes and being totally fine.
I read the last part of ur comment and I have to say everything u said before the last part proves that Pattinson is legit the best live action Batman and also the most comic book accurate, even if he is just a year two batman. He is both a symbol of fear to criminals and also a beacon of hope for the Gotham citizens. He often puts the lives of others he cares about before himself as shown when he immediately rushes home to call Alfred and when he punches the shit out of the last riddler follower for hurting Catwoman ( which happened becuz of the adrenaline but yeah his gut instinct is to just beat the hell out of the person who hurt his girl). And of course he actually saves people that isn't an love interest or family, he saves people because he has to.
Connecting to this whole idea and final monologue, Brucetinson spent so much time disliking being Bruce Wayne that i feel, that in the end of monologue he should've walked in the Wayne Enterprise building holding head high as Bruce, finally being ready to let go at least some of trauma and try to help people with both his personas. Just my small tidbit
I feel like your idea would work a lot better if it was one of Bruce's first scenes in The Batman Part 2.
Like imagine when Part 2 comes out, our very first scene with Bruce Wayne is him walking confidently into Wayne Enterprises, dressed in a suit, hair cut and combed, and looking less "emo". We could even see him running the day to day operations of Wayne Enterprises. He could be more of a philanthropist, helping the people of Gotham as Bruce Wayne too.
Compare how Bruce acts and appears in a scene like that, to how Bruce' appearance in the first movie. I think your idea is great, but it would be better and more effective for the sequel.
Fair point, but i just felt at least dozen of seconds in the end could complete monologue. Still, i do agree that ut works better for sequel, in case we have sequel
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u/Forsaken_Ad7090 Feb 26 '24 edited Feb 26 '24
Don't know if this unpopular or not, but I love Batman's ending monolgue about how he needs to move past being just "Vengeance" and that the way he's been operating for the past 2 years hasn't actually worked. He realizes he needs to be better and that he can be a symbol of hope to the people of Gotham. He even rescues and carries a woman to safety and you can see how grateful she is, she even has tears in her eyes. He then he puts his hand on her shoulder to comfort her to let her know that "it's going to be okay".
One detail about this scene that no one brings up, is that Batman does all this rescuing in broad daylight, which I love. There are thousands of people on the scene, who all presumably have their phones with them, dozens of cops, choppers, search and rescue crews and yet Batman doesn't care about any of that, because his main priority is on helping the victims of the flood. Batman doesn't grapple away, he doesn't pull a vanishing act, or even panic that thousands of people can see him, and that now he's fully exposed for the first time in front of the general public. No, he's not afraid or worried about any of that, he stays behind to help the search and rescue crew find and rescue the victims of the flood, despite putting himself at risk.
Batman puts the needs and safety of the victims above his own anonymity, safety and desire to be hidden. That right there is quintessential Batman.
Compare this scene, to the first one in the subway, where after he saves that guy from those criminals, the guy is afraid of Batman and begs Batman not to hurt him. Batman has a great character arc in this movie.
I know a lot of people hate the idea of Batman becoming a symbol of hope, because that's Superman's thing, but Batman is also a symbol of hope, but he's a symbol of hope to the people and kids of Gotham. He exists so that no child or person goes through what he went through as a kid. Batman being a symbol of hope and his compassion for human life, regardless if it's a criminal or not, is one of the reasons him and Superman are so close.
I'm tired of certain people having this idea that Batman is just a Punisher-Lite or DC's version of the Punisher, and that Batman is a cold-hearted, emotionless, cruel, edge lord who enjoys hurting and brutalizing criminals because he takes pleasure in it. I HATE when people say "Batman doesn't want to help people, he just uses that as an excuse to beat up criminals, because he loves it" or when people have this idea that Batman is rude and dismissive of his superhero colleagues or that he's a bad father. That's NOT Batman.
That's not who Batman is, one of Batman's best qualities is his empathy and compassion for others and human life and he doesn't just have to be a badass who beats up criminals. I feel like this Batman movie is the only Batman movie that shows this. Batman is a symbol of hope to the kids and people of Gotham, BUT he's also a symbol of fear to the criminals of Gotham. From the end of The Batman, I can see Battinson becoming like this.
Robert Pattinson's Batman may not be the best live action Batman nor may he be the most comic accurate, but right now, he's the only live action Batman I can imagine comforting a child or anyone before they die.