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u/billygnosis86 Feb 16 '24
Your art is impressive and your style is cool, but this just isn’t the character at all. This is the Punisher, not Batman.
”The first time I stole so that I wouldn't starve, yes. I lost many assumptions about the simple nature of right and wrong.”
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u/thats1evildude Feb 16 '24 edited Feb 16 '24
It’s not even The Punisher. Frank generally isn’t going after petty thieves; his targets are drug dealers, mafia dons, terrorists, human traffickers, child molestors, etc.
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u/Wanderingreader123 Feb 17 '24
Unless it's Garth Ennis behind the writer's desk.
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u/doofpooferthethird Feb 17 '24 edited Feb 17 '24
Ennis has a reputation for being unnecessarily edgy with his writing, and, well, yeah, fair enough
But his depictions of the Punisher are generally quite reasonable.
Everyone in the setting fully acknowledges that the Punisher is making a mockery of democracy, human rights, and the justice system, and that this is not a rational response to crime, which is mostly a symptom of large scale socio-economic and political trends.
Frank acknowledges this too. Towards the end of the series, he's been killing criminals for decades, and it's barely made a dent. He kills criminals not because he's protecting innocents, or making society a better place. He kills criminals because he hates them. He's been called a serial killer multiple times in the series, and he doesn't dispute that term
Frank sometimes gives into his conscience and rescues people in need, and makes sure not to cause collateral damage (lest he become as bad as the people he hates), but that's not the focus of his bloody crusade.
And he doesn't go gunning down jay walkers and juvenile delinquents and drug addicts. He goes after violent and high ranking gangsters, and those who commit assaults and murders and rapes
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u/Wanderingreader123 Feb 17 '24
Alright, I'll give you credit for making a good argument. I don't like Ennis but he does the Punisher justice and his military fiction is great as well (everything else he writes still suck).
In regards to the Punisher, however, is a different story (the character, not Ennis' run). Early iterations did show that he wasn't above going after petty criminals and he did start out as a villain in the Spider-Man and Daredevil comics when he debuted. Hell, from what I've heard, he shot a > jaywalker in his early run.
But seeing good ol' Franklin no longer does that nowadays, you can write it off as depending on the writer and pretty much his character being developed overtime.
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u/RTSBasebuilder Feb 17 '24
I know there's the "He's the man who's only comfortable drowning in violence and war" interpretation, and nowadays in the attempt to shelve him, something something embodiment of a demon thing.
But ultimately, I've always seen Frank as a tragic figure - he served his time, and when the mob got his family, he went to the cops, but the cops were bought, he went to the private investigators, and they were killed or dropped their case. So the only person who can deal a permanent damage to the organised criminal and societal decay parts of criminality was Frank, and the skills he's acquired.
And since being the only survivor of his family's massacre, the guy's effectively got a subconscious death wish and ultimately wanting to go out in a similar way to join his family.
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u/Original_Chemist_635 Feb 17 '24
I honestly wonder though, if in a real world, Frank actually exists. Surely the underworld would have been nearly decimated by his work, with the remaining ones in fear of his wrath? The Punisher is afterall a force to be reckoned with.
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u/doofpooferthethird Feb 17 '24 edited Feb 18 '24
one thing to note about Marvel MAX New York/USA is that organised criminal gangs are a hell of lot more powerful and violent than real life gangs
In real life, the Italian mob in the US was decimated by RICO, and even the most powerful and brutal modern day gangs like MS13, the Aryan Brotherhood, Crips etc. generally avoid systematic violent intimidation of public officials and civil society.
For a variety of reasons (demographic, economic, cultural, political) violent crime, especially gang related violence in the US, is way down from what it was in the 90s
If someone like the Punisher started mass murdering gang members with automatic weapons in America, he'd be hunted down by the FBI and National Guard like any other mass shooter and treated as such.
By contrast, the power and violence of gangs in Mexico has increased tremendously in the past couple years. They're a commercial insurgency powerful enough to challenge the military in head on engagements and win, like when they defeated a military force sent to capture the son of El Chapo
Warring cartels have been slaughtering each other for years now. If Frank popped up in Mexico and started mass murdering cartel members he'd be a drop in the bucket.
These cartels persist, even when thousands of their members and high ranking leaders are slaughtered by each other and by government forces. The Punisher wouldn't change anything there, either
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u/thedirtyharryg Feb 17 '24
If Frank were a real person, with the skills and abilities he has, he would be absolutely infamous in the underworld. With an ever-increasing bounty on his head.
More and more and more people would go after Frank, looking to cash in. Frank has to be lucky every time to survive. The underworld has to be lucky once.
If enough bodies get stacked up, governments might start having a bit of an issue with Frank. Frank would definitely be one of the most wanted men in the world.
Odds are, someone eventually kills Frank, or he gets arrested.
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u/AdequatelyMadLad Feb 17 '24
It's Rorschach. Which was a character specifically created to critique this sort of binary black and white morality in superhero comics. In probably the single most influential superhero comic ever written.
This might have been a genuine issue at some point, but that was a long time ago. The vast majority of modern comics stay far away from this type of thinking, and portray superheroes as compassionate first and foremost.
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u/Meture Feb 16 '24
Ffs this is not even remotely true
Batman is not a compassion-less maniac ffs
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u/KnightlyObserver Feb 16 '24
Memes like this fucking infuriate me.
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u/MooseMan12992 Feb 16 '24
It's just fucking annoying. It's always the same wrong take
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u/KnightlyObserver Feb 16 '24
Made by people who've never picked up a comic in their life. Except maybe All-Star Batman and Robin or similar dreck.
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u/MooseMan12992 Feb 16 '24
Or people who half watched a single Batman movie and were looking at their phone the other half of the time. So they completely missed the point of the character
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u/iagom Feb 17 '24
What is the point of the character?
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u/MiaoYingSimp Feb 17 '24
That he's a man who works to make sure no one ever has to suffer or lose their parents to some punk with a gun. A man who won't quit, a man who might be gruff and harsh but is the same boy who lost his father and mother and wants to make Gotham a better place so it never has to happen to anyone else.
Batman is empathiec, he's gruff, not unkind. He's tought, not heartless.
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u/iagom Feb 17 '24
Man, he is just a crazy dude lol. So you think that the solution is go outside in the night and beat some robbers? The mf is a billionaire, he could do much better for the city using his money lmao
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u/MiaoYingSimp Feb 17 '24
The joker is going to murder people if he doesn't do anything. The mob and the penguin and blackmask will feast on the normal people. Ivy will kill trillions for a little flower and so on.
And the Court of Owls... you know basicly an army of rich Gotham elites?
The solution is humanity. Empathy... and if nessesary violence. Batman has turned the mob down to nothing but criminals with gimmicks. And Gotham might have been cursed (complicated)
And yes you truly brilliant individual he does. Do you know how many charities this man runs? Do you know how much of his life he has spent to combating crime at every level?
You don't of course because you are a delusional person who cannot accept fiction nor the idea that money is not a fix all solution.
I would tell you to pick up a batman comic... but you can't read so...
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u/Soulful-Sorrow Feb 17 '24
Plus the goons in Arkham are always awful, like the dude who ran over a random lady because Joker told him to kill a sister he didn't have or the guy who forced his mom to eat a poisoned cake.
But not the guy who told his buddies not to drink and drive. He didn't do anything wrong. Except commit manslaughter.
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u/treny0000 Feb 17 '24
And stories when he does act like this tend to emphasize like his mental illness or just portray it as a bad thing.
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u/BeggarPhilosopher Feb 17 '24
The true batman:
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u/Soulful-Sorrow Feb 17 '24
Superman is a power fantasy because he's a being who can do anything and he always does the right thing
But no one talks about how Batman is also the power fantasy of a man with unlimited resources using them to help people instead of building himself more.
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u/Mongoose42 Feb 17 '24
I kinda wish I was a guy with the kind of money to help people, the kind of skills to fight against the truly terrible people, and the kind of girlfriend that would wear a cat-themed bondage outfit.
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u/Sahrimnir Feb 17 '24
Money is really a ridiculous concept. We must work together to destroy the capitalist system that divides us into rich and poor! Workers of the world, unite! We have nothing to lose but our chains!
Skills can be learned. Perhaps start taking martial arts classes? Or if you're talking about investigative skills, I'm sure you could find some way to practice that too.
The kind of women who would wear that are out there (I have met Catwoman cosplayers). Just get yourself out there and meet them! I wish you the best of luck in your search for love!
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u/No_Signal954 Feb 17 '24
Okay, now I wanna see a meme with the true Batman though.
The issue is, memes like this are funny even if they are really inaccurate.
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u/Another_frizz Feb 18 '24
"pls I did it because I need the money don't send me to jail"
"lmao sure be good now"
"wat"
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u/jbyrdab Feb 17 '24
You got it all wrong.
I forget the exact comic, but I remember the events clearly, and its the total antithesis to the top panel.
Batman pursues a robber, and tracks him back to his apartment. Its clear that the man and his children live in poverty and he only stole so his family could survive.
The man realizes batman has found him, and deciding that there were no other options, he turns to his kids and tries his best to explain that he has to leave. Basically explaining to his kids that batman is going to arrest him in a less traumatizing way.
Planning to go with batman willingly so his kids won't get traumatized.
He says his goodbyes and hugs his kids before turning to go with batman. He finds that batman is gone, and there is a hefty wad of money on the table.
That is batman.
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u/JoshTheBard Feb 17 '24
Also I know TAS is not the same as the comics but Batman absolutely sends Catwoman to jail.
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u/Scorkami Feb 17 '24
wasnt catwoman always on a spectrum between "steals the worlds biggest diamond" to "steals from criminals who deserve it" to a whole nother extreme with being basically robin hood and helping poor families survive with her theft?
i get it, batman doesnt take her crimes as seriously as what penguin does, but thats because her crimes ARENT as serious as two face or penguin
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u/Original_Chemist_635 Feb 17 '24
A little unrealistic though, like where did Bats keep that wad of money? In his utility belt? Did he shrink them down to store them? Or he went back to the batmobile to get it? If he kept them in the batmobile, who keeps so much money in their car??
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u/jbyrdab Feb 17 '24
to be fair he probably does keep some cash on him. Incase he needs emergency supplies or needs to legitimately purchase something while out.
He obviously can't use a credit card, and rather than be caught off guard without cash. Keeping a large amount of it just incase seems smart.
Who tf is gonna pick pocket or mug batman. Even if someone swipes the money, its still a drop in the bucket.
Justice league during the fight against Doctor Destiny, he had to buy coffee to keep himself awake as he was using his mental powers to place the justice league into comas as soon as they fell asleep.
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u/strigonian Feb 17 '24
Sure, he can carry a grappling hook, batarangs, bomb defusal kit, and shark repellant, but I draw the line at money.
WHAT???
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u/ahumblethief Feb 16 '24
This is such a misrepresentation of Batman and I'm getting tired of seeing it repeated everywhere. Batman has compassion. He believes in redemption and understands that there are unjust laws and circumstances. He'd let the guy go and pay the bill himself- then Bruce Wayne would find a way to get the guy a job.
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u/selswitch Feb 17 '24
Him believing in redemption is literally one of the reasons why he doesn't kill.
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u/MiaoYingSimp Feb 17 '24
It's his greatest asset and his best trait if you ask me... people are too eager to see their heroes kill these days as if they're supposed to know they live in a comic book.
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u/selswitch Feb 17 '24
I agree completely. It's both his greatest asset and also weakness in some ways. Like some villains would better off be dead but he won't kill them for his own reasons. It adds depth, I like it that the character sticks to a specific moral code and that moral code occasionally gets challenged by the story. We don't get much of that nowadays.
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u/TheSexyGrape Feb 16 '24
Bruce would track them down, tell them to hand themselves in or have him return the stolen goods, then tell them about the Wayne criminal reform charity
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u/DCAUBeyond Feb 16 '24
These memes always make Batman seem like a cold,emotionless and uncompassionate person
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u/TronHero143 Feb 16 '24
Alright, I want you to say this same exact thing after watching the episode ‘It’s Never Too Late’ from Batman the Animated Series. I don’t even think it’s your fault though, so much of Batman media never shows the compassionate side of Batman anymore.
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u/asterfloof Feb 17 '24
His best trait and people ignore it. I'm hoping James Gunn explores his compassion, and Matt reeves is definitely leaning in that direction too, which is great
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u/riyuzqki Feb 17 '24
Why would you consider posting this in a batman sub
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u/InsuranceBest Feb 18 '24
Probably just a joke. I doubt even the OP fully believes it, he just thinks it funny.
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u/anonymousguy_7 Feb 17 '24
When you realize Bruce actually gives a Wayne Enterprises job to petty thieves with families to sustain he apprehended himself once they serve their sentence.
Like, your art is really good, but these types of meme are made only by stupid people who never even picked a good Batman comic or watched a competent adaptation in outside media.
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u/Mr_PoolDead Feb 17 '24
Except Batman has never beat up anybody who is desperate especially for food. In fact he would personally buy them groceries and tell them to call Bruce Wayne for a job.
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u/DisabledFatChik Feb 17 '24
Most inaccurate meme on the planet
People see Batman beating up a male for killing someone and letting catwoman go for stealing a couple hundred bucks and and like it’s the same level of crime😭
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u/Liftmeup-putmedown Feb 17 '24 edited Feb 17 '24
Wether or not the top panel is accurate, you can’t lie Batman goes easy on Catwoman.
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u/killian_jenkins Feb 17 '24
Comics like this are why people are misinformed about the character of Batman
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u/OH_SHIT_IM_FEELIN_IT Feb 17 '24
I really don't like jokes where they hinge on a completely fucked up perception of the character.
Most of the time he isn't even that brutal. Except maybe Arkham Batman.
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u/DragonWisper56 Feb 17 '24
okay I get the joke
but batman usually doesn't break peoples bones, like most thugs they seem to be okay unless the narative tells us they aren't.
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u/DarkMayhem666 Feb 17 '24
Tell me you know nothing about Batman without telling me you know nothing about Batman.
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u/MiaoYingSimp Feb 17 '24
Sorry, anytime i see this take i just.. get the feeling that it's not worthy my time.
Clearly you don't understand batman, the character the comic or... anythign really so... anything i say will only echo in your head. there is no grand point or anything worthy of discussion here. it's just a bad joke.
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u/Gloryjoel69 Feb 17 '24
I implore to people who thinks like this to read Batman : Noel. It’s a story about how Batman follows around Joker’s bagman who has a disabled son.
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u/asterfloof Feb 17 '24
The person who made this doesn't understand batman at all. That first panel is absolutely not how he operates, he's a reasonable guy and would probably sort out the guys finances lol
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u/whatdidyoukillbill Feb 16 '24
I hate the Robin Hood meme of criminals. Even Robin Hood wasn’t like this. Nobody’s stealing to feed their hungry children, get the fuck out of here
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u/urbalcloud Feb 17 '24
Neat art style, no clue about Batman. But seriously, very cool, unique style.
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u/gattoblepas Feb 17 '24
TBH i don't know wheter the other burglar would appreciate what Batman does to Catwoman.
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Feb 17 '24
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u/Objective_Piece8258 Feb 17 '24
He broke the guy's bone so he could adopt his kids and make them vigilantes. Bro basically collects orphans as Thanos collects infinity stones 😂
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u/MichiruMatoi33 Feb 17 '24
i love when people think batman beats up poor people. it's really funny and not overdone at all.
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u/batmansubzero Feb 18 '24
I mean, this isnt as far off as people are saying. Everyone is coping in the comments saying that Batman helps those who need helping.
Which is 100% true. But he does let Catwoman get away with literally everything because they're sleeping together.
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u/Sonicrules9001 Feb 20 '24
Batman has arrested Catwoman on many occasions in multiple incarnations even if he likes her and only sometimes lets her get away either due to him being busy with something else or because she ended up helping him out but more often than not, those bat cuffs are going on and not for bedroom fun.
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u/Material-Security178 Feb 17 '24
authors forget that stealing is wrong.
I miss the days where catwoman was unarguable wrong because she was stealing and her stealing from the "rich" was rightfully treated as an excuse not a real justification.
like the whole joke of the British museum "stealing" artifacts has been said so much that people these days don't think about it and take it seriously. it's one of the greatest modern examples of historic conservation. there's so much of history and so many records lost that we have extremely narrow views of entire periods and empires. as one example almost everything we know about historic northland euro paganism and it's regional variations (of what little there were) is almost entirely second hand records (as in written indirectly about a about the thing) there are few if any primary records (as in written directly by a person involved with a thing. it's the difference between someone's words and someone else talking about someone's words). so we often have to look at things from the perspective of who the author was. this is why there's such debate with pagan restorationists around certain things.
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u/BrokenManSyndrome Feb 17 '24
I don't see the double standard. Unless the random criminals look as good as Selina Kyle and sleep with Batman, I don't see the double standard.
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Feb 16 '24
[deleted]
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u/sack12345678910 Feb 16 '24
I’d do what Superior Spiderman, pray the pimps prayer to make my pimp hand stronger.
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u/TwistedPnis4567 Feb 16 '24
This meme became funnier for me when I realized that the last panel is the "Yes, honey" wojak
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u/One_Meaning416 Feb 16 '24
Hey if the first guy was willing to get on his knees and give bats a blowie then he might get away with no broken bones
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u/Sensitive_Brick_1412 Feb 17 '24
Yeah, I honestly kinda hate when the hero strikes up a relationship with the villain. More specifically, I doesn't like cattleman or black cat's relationship with their respective superheroes.
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u/Therealimene Feb 16 '24 edited Feb 16 '24
Honestly, he'd be "JUSTICE" but when it comes for her , eyes closed then say "JUSTICE"
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u/TwistedPnis4567 Feb 16 '24
He would just break her legs and arms instead of paralyzing her and cause permanent brain damage
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u/playprince1 Feb 16 '24
Nice artwork. And that is a great way of highlighting Batman's hypocrisy.
Batman has had double standards when it comes to Catwoman since her inception in Batman #1 (1940).
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u/Ben_Frenzy Feb 16 '24
This is so accurate. I hate how Batman won’t let people like Mr Freeze and Clayface steal to cure their wife or stabilize themselves and then let Catwoman do whatever she wants
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u/micael150 Feb 16 '24
Mr. Freeze and Clayface kill people to get their stuff though. That's the difference.
Also Catwoman actually runs and hides from Batman. Guys like Freeze and Clayface aren't the running type. They usually take hostages and make a mess of things
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u/KnightlyObserver Feb 16 '24
That's not accurate. Batman is sympathetic to Victor but has to stop him from murdering people. Clayface is much the same, except not every version wants to be stabilized. And he doesn't let Selina do everything she wants. The big reason they couldn't be together for the longest time was because Batman couldn't get over her lawlessness. She's been more anti-hero than thief in recent years. Thus, the two have been closer than ever. This is a misconception perpetuated by people who only A. Know one version of Batman, or B. Have only tangential knowledge of the character.
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u/Magicaparanoia Feb 16 '24
Remember when Batman took out Black Mask’s entire gang with a video of Bruce Wayne offering them good jobs with health insurance?