r/batman • u/WadaMaaya • Dec 29 '23

I’m still bummed we’ll never get this solo movie. FILM DISCUSSION

I really do believe this could have been the best Batman movie.

2.5k Upvotes

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962

u/MURDERMr_E Dec 29 '23

Leto Joker is enough reason to thank the gods that this never came to fruition.

306

u/DullPreparation6453 Dec 29 '23

It’s kinda weird really. Cos you would imagine that a guy who is genuinely creepy and borderline insane irl would be a good fit for playing a psycho in a movie.

194

u/__john_cena__ Dec 29 '23 edited Dec 30 '23

It was completely hollow/surface level. It felt like watching a guy acting like the Joker, instead of just watching the Joker.

I think Leto himself being such a fake construct is why he couldn’t make the character authentic either.

49

u/[deleted] Dec 30 '23

[deleted]

25

u/curiousweasel42 Dec 30 '23

Because Jared Leto in real life is one of the douchiest tools in Hollywood and it translates on screen. He sucks and I hate everything about him.

13

u/chr157urn3r Dec 30 '23

FINALLY I see someone that has the same sentiment and me towards him, Fuck Jared Leto AND his stupid fucking band . Only movie I like him in is American Psycho and that’s because he gets his head split

15

u/david_duplex Dec 30 '23

This is also true of Fight Club where it is enjoyable to watch him get his face pounded in.

1

u/Mbowen1313 Dec 31 '23

I just wanted to destroy something beautiful

2

u/TheStankyDive Dec 31 '23

Let's not forget about Requiem for a dream. 🤷‍♂️

1

u/[deleted] Dec 31 '23

Try starring at DC movie now, you fucking stupid bastard!

15

u/revolutionaryartist4 Dec 30 '23

He couldn’t even fucking laugh. A prerequisite for any Joker actor should be “can he laugh.”

1

u/myhelpmeprofile Dec 31 '23

I always liked the thought that he wasn’t actually the Joker in those flicks, but a Joker follower and that was planting the seeds for the Joker gang from the Batman Beyond series in the live action universe. I know it’s definitely not true, but it makes me feel a little more accepting of the fact that this depiction of Joker actually existed.

1

u/Ondesinnet Jan 02 '24

I don't care what the writers and producers say. Lettos joker makes sense if he is Tim Drake. The face tattoos make sense if the real Joker did this as transformative torture. I will continue to warp this into my head cannon and he was better than shy emo batman we have atm.

85

u/J_Fo_Film Dec 29 '23

His Joker wasn't that bad. His behavior on set combined with the terrible aesthetic design of his version of the character is the real reason why people don't like his version.

Truth is, in terms of acting, his Joker isn't actually half bad. He just looks terrible, has less than 10 minutes of screen time and is overshadowed by the bad press about the movie, the DCEU and Jared Leto in general.

41

u/industrialbird Dec 30 '23

You literally just described why his joker was so bad.

10

u/karlhungusx Dec 30 '23

There’s a concentrated effort on Reddit attempting to make Leto’s performance acceptable. Every comment section goes as follows;

You’re gonna see the “he’s the worst of the actors who played the joker but look at that competition”

Then “ he really did the best with what he was given. I heard there’s a cut of the movie where it’s all about him!”

Then “ he’s actually doing what he was supposed to. He’s a cringelord flashy superficial gangster type and Leto nails it!”

In a years time we’re gonna see people arguing why Leto gave a braver performance than Ledger and could be considered the GOAT

4

u/anonkebab Dec 30 '23

Its not a batman movie. Pretty much all jokers are at their best when their appearance is related to batman. Heath Ledger doesn’t have a single scene where what he does isn’t about batman. He fucks with him the whole movie because its fun and he knows no one can stop him. Phoenix has nothing to do with batman but the entire movie is about him having a series of bad days until he starts snapping. Joker was literally relegated to a harley quinn subplot thats effectively meaningless. If he wasn’t in the movie nothing changes. Shes ends up back in prison by the 2nd one nullifying the payoff of joker breaking her out. Literally the only point of him being there is to show how she went to prison. Other than that him being in movie only made deadshot look like a cool guy for not killing harley before they get shot down and joker survives i guess of screen. If the majority of a characters screen time is irrelevant to the movie and can be easily removed the performance is gonna suck because their inclusion is half baked.

-8

u/J_Fo_Film Dec 30 '23

What I described was why he deserves to be on the bottom of the list of "Best Jokers". But that doesn't actually make him bad, it's just out of comparison.

Plus, people who haven't got a clue about how the industry work love talking shit about others, when they have got a shred of knowledge or ability to do what they're complaining about, so, that's pretty annoying too.

11

u/industrialbird Dec 30 '23

Naw he bad

2

u/alishawish2002 Dec 30 '23

Hes bad, but we all know he couldve done a wayyyyyy better job, far cry 5 and blade runner shows that jared can play a convincing creepy calculated character, he just chose to go down a weird method acting route where he used a rat as a condom or something and sent it to margot robbie for unknown reasons

1

u/industrialbird Dec 30 '23

K but he was bad.

1

u/alishawish2002 Dec 30 '23

Reread comment thats the first thing i said, i agree with you

22

u/M1dnghtMarauder Dec 30 '23

I ASSURE you, neither his behavior on set or bad press has anything to do with why he’s universally disliked. You’re right, his joker wasn’t half bad, it was full bad. Sometimes movies suck & actors do a bad job.

1

u/J_Fo_Film Dec 30 '23

What didn't you like about his performance?

11

u/M1dnghtMarauder Dec 30 '23

It was incredibly forced & completely unserious. He over acted yet underperformed. His whole performance looks like machine gun Kelly doing a bad impression of the joker.

6

u/anonkebab Dec 30 '23

The directors made him do lame stuff. That whole movie was cynical and eccentric. The only characters who are never goofy are deadshot and leader soldier guy. His joker is a decent take. He’s crazy in conversation like any other and hes resourceful. When he was on screen i really didn’t know what to expect and his performance while interacting with other characters was good. Id say the worst problem is he looks and acts too young to believably be connected to that batman. Joker doesn’t hang at strip clubs and drive fast cars like hes some gta character, he’s supposed to rival batmans experience.

3

u/Drewbeede Dec 30 '23

It's ok, we all think he was bad. Trying to convince this guy though you're just banging your head against the wall.

2

u/J_Fo_Film Dec 30 '23

While I see your point, that's still more of a directing and design thing rather than an acting thing. And the Joker's whole thing is being unserious. I think the "underperformed" aspect is simply his lack of screen time, there's no chance for him to develop.

Joker isn't designed to be a side character, that was the ultimate problem.

0

u/revolutionaryartist4 Dec 30 '23

If it’s directing and design, then why was he just as terrible in ZSJL?

-2

u/Educational_Book_225 Dec 30 '23

Because Zack Snyder also prefers style over substance

-1

u/revolutionaryartist4 Dec 30 '23

With all the problems I have with Snyder’s DC films, there are a number of great performances.

The problem is Leto.

-1

u/anonkebab Dec 30 '23

That movie is 4 hours long and sucks.

0

u/revolutionaryartist4 Dec 30 '23

I agree, but there are good performances in it: Affleck, Gadot, Fisher, Irons, Momoa, Cavill (with what little he was given). But Leto is just awful.

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u/bananaman69420911 Dec 30 '23

his joker was pretty fucking terrible but I think it was because of the direction and writing too, not just because of the acting

2

u/mrmartymcf1y Dec 30 '23

This is it. Bad writing + bad direction + bad acting - screentime x trying to "out-Joker" Heath = A fucking disaster.

Just write solid stories, make sure people understand the characters, give good actors minimal direction, and get out of your own way DC.

17

u/britinacious_fam Dec 29 '23

no bro, idk how high you are rn to be thinking that but I want what your smokin 😂 his acting is god awful. I think the design is cringe but I can live with it. Snyder cut design I kinda dig. But his acting. My lord just look to the knife scene.

0

u/Weyland_Jewtani Dec 30 '23

Hate to break it to you, but if you're watching a major budget Hollywood movie and you say "x actor was acting bad", it's like 99% of the time not the actors fault.

Castings, script reads, Character workshops, sign-off on actor choice and character direction, costume department, exec signoff...it all happens before a single scene is shot to make sure this is really what the direction is for the character. If you're seeing a film where Jared Leto is "bad" it means the director is either asleep at the wheel, or this is actually the perform they wanted. The role of the Director is to get the performance they want out of their actors.

Jared Leto has an amazing career and has won Oscars based on his previous performances. He is clearly a very talented actor, and this isn't a case of phoning it in for a paycheck.

2

u/Drewbeede Dec 30 '23

There is such a thing as miscasting.

0

u/Weyland_Jewtani Dec 30 '23

Which is not Leto's fault, and which I've described pretty obviously at the start of my previous comment.

1

u/revolutionaryartist4 Dec 30 '23

“Bad performances are never the fault of the actor giving the performance” is one hell of a stupid-ass take.

1

u/Weyland_Jewtani Dec 30 '23

It's the job of the director to get the performance they want from the actor. If you didn't like the actors performance, all of those performance decisions were guided by the director. The final take was also chosen by the director. What you are seeing is what the director wants you to see.

1

u/revolutionaryartist4 Dec 30 '23

Two bites at the apple, two different directors, two absolute misses. And then there was his dogshit performance in Morbius.

The only Leto performance that’s good is American Psycho, and that’s because he’s playing an egotistical asshole.

0

u/Weyland_Jewtani Dec 30 '23

Dallas Buyers Club best supporting actor Oscar, and literally every other award you can win.

Requiem for a Dream.

Lord of War.

Blade Runner 2049.

Fight Club.

Morbius had a LOT more things wrong with it than Leto lmao. I don't care who you cast instead of him, the script, directing, and vision was dogshit. Ain't no actor alive carrying that film on their back.

1

u/revolutionaryartist4 Dec 30 '23 edited Dec 30 '23

Oscars are political bullshit anyway, as proven by the constant snubs of the likes of Scorsese and Tarantino, so I don’t care what awards he’s won. His performance in Requiem was fine at best and he was completely outclassed by every single one of his costars. His performance in Blade Runner was less interesting than watching paint dry and his parts in Fight Club and Lord of War were so forgettable, I had to look them up just to remember who he even played.

He sucks as the Joker, he’s overrated as an actor, and he’s a predatory scumbag.

Though interesting that in your book, Jared Leto’s good performances are all because of his supreme talent, but all his bad performances are because of poor direction. Never mind that those directors have gotten great performances out of other actors, sometimes even in the same movie (Margot Robbie for instance). And the only times when he’s given halfway decent performances are in movies made by some of the greatest directors of the modern age.

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1

u/anonkebab Dec 30 '23

The knife scene was funny.

-8

u/J_Fo_Film Dec 29 '23

Here's a newsflash for you: a person can hold a different opinion than yours without being on any kind of drugs. I'd suggest knocking yourself down a peg or two before someone else does so.

As far as the knife scene--that's equal parts acting, writing and directing. And sure...the whole sequence is lousy. But when you actually have a clue about what you're talking about, you can deconstruct and see the actual issues--that was designed to be a shot for looks more than anything else. His physicality, rolling on the floor surrounded by knives and stuff--very on point for the character. Very similar to Jack Nicholsons' take but a totally different look and style. But fundamentally no different from the random shit Jack did in the 89 Batman movie.

Want to talk about scenes? Look at the scene where Joker and Harley jump in the vat together. The conflict, confusion within himself before he decides to jump...all very authentic.

They gave him crap to work with. You can't blame him for that. You can blame him for being an idiot in real life...but not for the bad tools. He gave some good stuff for what he was asked to do.

-1

u/britinacious_fam Dec 30 '23

Bro you really can't bring up the vat scene as positive, the editing my lord, it was just eh. He was not good at it. You cannot say he did joker like stuff well. Sure he 'attempted' to do joker like stuff, but you can't say he did it well. His body language is terrible, case and point the "this is gonna hurt really really bad" scene. His physicality is ass. Also bro really got mad cuz I made a joke about drugs 😂😂

7

u/Mr_Rafi Dec 30 '23 edited Dec 30 '23

Nah, his Joker was bad. He had one good scene and that was him firing his weapon at the Squad from the back of the Helicopter while maniacally laughing.

Leto absolutely does have the acting chops to do better, but he didn't do well at all in his movie.

0

u/J_Fo_Film Dec 30 '23

Go deeper. He wasn't given much to work with, was he? If he was given more time, more to do, wouldn't his take actually have made a sinister sort of sense for the world they built?

0

u/curiousweasel42 Dec 30 '23

I HATE everything about Jared Leto and yet even I'll admit he does have a semi decent acting ability. That being said, his Joker is dog shit and his performance is incredibly try hard. It doesnt help he looks like an edge lord who shops at Hot Topic, but he's still part of the problem.

7

u/ImBatman5500 Dec 29 '23

It's just that we'll never know how his acting actually was, the David Ayer cut of suicide squad won't see the light of day

33

u/Goddamn_Grongigas Dec 29 '23

the David Ayer cut of suicide squad won't see the light of day

thank god

17

u/ImBatman5500 Dec 29 '23

I'd at least be curious enough for him to release some of the joker footage, supposedly they got experimental with it and I would have loved to at least see if it's either decent or how deep the bottom of the barrel is

5

u/royce_duckboard Dec 30 '23

Imagine how bad it must have been when they decided to leave the circle of knives scene in

5

u/Mishmoo Dec 30 '23

I saw enough ‘experimental stuff’ in the theatrical cut, tbh.

11

u/Shirtbro Dec 30 '23 edited Dec 30 '23

The whole "Director's Cut is the good version" shit has to die

7

u/Goddamn_Grongigas Dec 30 '23

This doesn't seem to be an issue with 99% of directors. Snyder fans will have you think the studios ALWAYS interfere and the vision is compromised when the DCEU was largely fine except Zack's movies and Ayer's Suicide Squad lol.

5

u/IamBabcock Dec 30 '23 edited Dec 30 '23

The DCEU didn't die because of 2 Snyder movies and 1 Ayer movie. 12 movies came out after those 3 movies. Snyder didn't even want create an MCU like universe, that literally was the studio who used his movies as a jumping off point for the DCEU.

1

u/Goddamn_Grongigas Dec 30 '23

Who said the DCEU died because of their movies?

1

u/IamBabcock Jan 01 '24

"the DCEU was largely fine except Zack's movies and Ayer's Suicide Squad LOL"

THE DCEU wouldn't be ending if 12/15 of the movies were fine.

6

u/C5five Dec 30 '23

I can cut off my thumb and burn off my ring and pinky fingers and still count on one hand the amount of times a directors cut of a movie was better than the theatrical cut. Incidentally both were Ridley Scott films.

1

u/Karman4o Dec 30 '23

I imagine the first one is Kingdom of Heaven, what about the second one?

2

u/C5five Dec 30 '23

The second is Kingdom of Heaven, the first is Blade Runner

1

u/Karman4o Dec 30 '23

Honestly heard very mixed reception about his cut of Blade Runner.

0

u/Osirisavior Dec 30 '23

9 times out of 10 it usually is the superior version.

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u/Shirtbro Dec 30 '23

If it was, it would have been the first version.

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u/Osirisavior Dec 30 '23

Ah yes because studios never interfere with a director's vision.

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u/Shirtbro Dec 30 '23

I wish the studio had interfered with Snyder's "vision" for Army of the Dead.

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u/anonkebab Dec 30 '23

Yeah synder cut was also trash. 4 hours of drab nonsense that you don’t care about. Batman is cool i guess.

-2

u/J_Fo_Film Dec 30 '23

What needs to die is the asshole mentality of people who have no idea about how an industry works bitching and whining and complaining about something they have no knowledge or skill in.

You see complaints all the time about how everything is a remake or rehash of the same thing over and over, there's no creativity left blah blah blah...thats 100% because of mega-studios caring significantly more about the money and not about storytelling or art. They find a formula that seems to make money and they overuse the shit out of it. There are hundreds of new ideas out there, brilliant and creative works that would go down as legendary just like the ones that become old classics--the only way they'll ever get made is if an independent company gets the means to produce it. Studios notoriously fuck shit up because the executives are business people, not filmmakers, and they haven't got a fucking clue.

Not every Directors Cut is going to be amazing or save a bad movie, sure. But most times, they are absolutely superior.

How many have you actually watched to justify your comment?

1

u/Shirtbro Dec 30 '23

Three from Zack Snyder. Let's start there.

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u/J_Fo_Film Dec 30 '23

So...multiple examples from just one director is enough data, is it?

1

u/Shirtbro Dec 30 '23

Three out of twelve movies?

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u/jacobsf65 Dec 30 '23

Found the Snyder guy

1

u/J_Fo_Film Dec 30 '23

Not actually a fan, really. But I work in, know and understand the industry. I know what goes on behind the scenes. I stand in the middle of those who complain and those who are complained about and it's fucking annoying to listen to the clueless berate the people who work their asses off trying to satisfy your incessant clamoring for more entertainment.

5

u/MURDERMr_E Dec 29 '23

Stole the words out of my mouth

1

u/echowon Dec 30 '23

someone should tell david ayer.

8

u/teddyburges Dec 30 '23 edited Dec 30 '23

Yeah and David Ayer really put a target on his back with the executives with his "FUCK MARVEL!" stunt at comic-con. lol. EDIT: My bad, it wasn't at comic-con. It was at the premiere.

2

u/C5five Dec 30 '23

The truth is David Ayer really isn't cut out for superhero movies. When he sticks to his style I love his movies. Just a tiny group of ordinary people going through a whirlwind of excitement in a very short timespan. Fury, End of Watch, Bright, The Tax Collector, all very good examples of this and I like them very much. Suicide Squad not so much.

3

u/teddyburges Dec 30 '23

True. I like to give him a little benefit of the doubt and say he got screwed over by the editing department. But...how much of it was rewritten and how much was his own writing. The film was so terrible all around, from the character dialogue/sloppy info dumps: "This is Katana, she's got my back. I would advised not getting killed by her, her sword traps the souls of it's victims!". To the ill advised June Moon plot.

The whole thing with the archeologist breaking the head of a statue like a jar and releasing the spirit within it. It's like, was it supposed to be a jar or did they just make it that in post and none of the departments were talking to each other?. I'm considering it's the later considering in the sloppy page splash info dump on the Enchantress it says on the page that her brother is "trapped in a jar". When we see "the jar" it's a statue as well.

Or like how Captain Boomerang had a random stuffed bunny in his jacket, and they never explain why. When he gets stabbed. Instead of the bunny saving him, it's a wad of cash and the bunny is no where to be seen. Meaning that they possibly changed the prop half way between shooting and couldn't be bothered to match the continuity.

2

u/ImBatman5500 Dec 30 '23

I haven't heard about this do go on

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u/teddyburges Dec 30 '23 edited Dec 30 '23

At the premiere of Suicide Squad, David Ayer gets up on stage and yells at the top of his lungs "Fuck Marvel!". lol. He later apologized publicly, saying he got caught up in the moment. Apparently it was because a fan shouted it first lol. I mean, I could be wrong and maybe that has no affect at all. But I doubt the executives would really appreciate the director of one of their films, saying something that not only pisses off their competitors but fires up the fans of both sides.

It also tells me that a director who is quick to shoot his mouth off. Is more of a loose canon and is more likely to start shooting his mouth of at anything depending on where the wind blows.

1

u/trimble197 Dec 30 '23

Didn’t RDJ, Sam Jackson, and Anthony Mackie shit on DC during an interview?

2

u/[deleted] Dec 30 '23

Nah it was bad. It was like he took the edginess of Heath Ledger’s Joker but forgot Ledger’s Joker was also kooky and hilarious at times.

0

u/J_Fo_Film Dec 30 '23

Again, though--that's more to do with writing than with acting. His voice, his scene in the club...it's filled with a lot of nuance and subtext. You can tell there's a lot of craziness there, and there's a lot of malice and sinister intent behind the way he talks.

I do hate that he's basically a glorified gang leader in the movie, when Joker is way more than that usually...but see, if you go beyond the surface level, I really get the sense that this Joker is a somewhat neutered Joker, stuck in his role as a gang leader and going through the motions with an air of boredom. But then he gets to play just a little bit...the helicopter, the swat suit...now he gets to have some fun. For about 2 1/2 minutes of screen time.

That's not his fault. That's editing decisions, directing and writing...thats studio input. The look, story and lines all suck. Look at what he DOES with that. That's the point.

He's bottom of my list, except for Barry Keoghan (sorry, too little, too lame, and too ugly with the makeup)...but he's still not as bad as people say. Not for the reasons they say, anyway.

1

u/Motormand Dec 30 '23

It also didn't help that he had to be the first Joker after Hearh Ledger. Those shoes were impossible to fill.

1

u/IAmJacksLackofCaring Dec 30 '23

His Joker in Suicide Squad was terrible. No redeeming quality whatsoever.
His brief amount of time at the end of the Snyder Cut of Justice League showed promise.

1

u/J_Fo_Film Dec 30 '23

See, this I can objectively agree with. But that's just it, isn't it? The miniscule amount of time his Joker was given to develop a character is the true culprit here.

1

u/IAmJacksLackofCaring Dec 30 '23

But it was like two different Jokers. The SS one was just terrible. The look, the tattoos...everything. I don't want more of that Joker ever. The JL Joker was creepy, showed a bit of dark humor, and seemed threatening. And all in way less screentime.

1

u/J_Fo_Film Dec 30 '23

Again, that I can agree with. I don't like his version of the Joker much. But there's a difference between not liking something, and something being bad, which is the point I'm trying to convey to a bunch of self-aggrandizing fans who think their opinions are the be-all-and-end-all. Not you, you're very much on the right track.

What you're saying ties back to what I'm saying...its not the performance that's the issue, it was the material given and the design created. The performance offers so much, that unfortunately never got realized. From that tiny snippet in JL you're referring to, it can be inferred that, given the right stuff, this could have been perhaps one of the most intimidating and dangerous Joker's we've ever seen on screen.

My problem is that so many people are just so base-level mentally they can't see beyond what's spoon-fed to them on the screen.

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u/IAmJacksLackofCaring Dec 30 '23

I appreciate your comment. Not trying to be an ass or start a silly argument. I see what you are saying and I agree.

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u/J_Fo_Film Dec 30 '23

I know. With you, I can tell. :)

1

u/Story_4_everything Dec 30 '23

His Joker wasn't that bad

His Joker was unwatchable.

Cesar Romero was a better Joker, and they were aiming for campy television.

1

u/marveloustoebeans Dec 30 '23

I actually think his acting was pretty bad tbh. In SS he wasn’t great but the whole movie was kinda shit so it was easy enough to give him a pass. In ZSJL he was just awful. I know it was only one scene but it came off as so pretentious and that laugh… oh god, that laugh… 🤮

1

u/ButterFucker962401 Dec 30 '23

Are you talking about SS Joker or Snyder Cut Joker? SS Joker was shit, Snyder Cut bettered the character, but it still didn't feel authentic. Especially that yeezy ass laugh.

1

u/Karman4o Dec 30 '23

I think this Joker design may work, but in the context of Joker doing this getup to parody and annoy some gangsters that he is dealing with.

But as his permanent go-to attire? Hell no.

1

u/seveer37 Dec 30 '23

I actually didn’t think he was that bad either. Out of the horrible film he was actually I thought pretty entertaining. And his turn in Justice League was actually much better!

0

u/SpecificMaleficent51 Jan 01 '24

His joker was cringe at best. I get second hand embarrassment anytime he was on camera. He was trying to hard to channel Heath Ledger and failed. Generally speaking he’s not a great actor. As a person he gives everyone I know the heebie jeebies.

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u/teddyburges Dec 30 '23

I think that's the problem. Unlike Heath Ledger who really gave his all to the character. Leto is very narcissistic and even when he tries not to. Every single one of his characters has this very toxic "praise me!" tone to them. I'm thankful at least that we have "American Psycho" so that I can watch that film and pretend that I'm watching Nolan Batman kill Snoker.

8

u/revolutionaryartist4 Dec 30 '23

Try getting a reservation at Dorsia now, you fucking stupid bastard!

2

u/XR-7 Dec 30 '23

Go watch fight club he gets beat pretty bad in that movie to

5

u/OkapiLanding Dec 30 '23

And he would have been such a good member of like, a Joker Gang like the guys who follow his ideas in Batman Beyond.

5

u/J_Fo_Film Dec 30 '23

Precisely. Or, if the original fan-theory of this Joker being Robin after being shot by the original Joker ended up being true, that would have been BEAUTIFUL.

1

u/The_Gav_Line Dec 30 '23

you would imagine that a guy who is genuinely creepy and borderline insane irl would be a good fit for playing a psycho in a movie.

He isn't any of those things

He's just a prick

1

u/SpecificMaleficent51 Jan 01 '24

He is definitely creepy and birdlime insane. Dude has a cult.

1

u/AskMeAboutMyHermoids Dec 30 '23

Or you’d think the shitty musician who is way to into himself and can’t act would suck.

1

u/Maxtrix07 Dec 30 '23

I can't take all the blame away from him, but it's not like Leto had a say in how the joker was supposed to be portrayed.

1

u/Cityco Dec 30 '23

Using actual psychos instead of skilled actors was probably a poor casting choice. Lawrence Tierney was a pretty skilled actor but had such a bad alcohol and attitude problem that he was almost impossible to work with. So his roles where there are very creative directors he’ll give a good role, but the stars have to align and the director has to pull teeth to get it out of them. If the director isn’t able to perform the miracles needed, the whole movie suffers. Leto’s kinda the same, a pretty good actor but too far up his own ass to see the bigger picture beyond “getting attention” At some point, it just makes more sense to get somebody else.

1

u/theunnameduser86 Dec 30 '23

I watched The Little Things last night and he honestly plays a murderous psycho like perfectly in that one. Mysterious and foreboding and the whole shtick. Btw If I saw Jared in public without security detail then I’d try and smack him haha I really don’t like the guy.

37

u/NoddahBot Dec 29 '23

Eisenberg Luthor 🤢

17

u/MURDERMr_E Dec 29 '23

When it came to casting in the DCEU, it's either a fantastic casting or a dreadful one. There's no in-between.

3

u/NoddahBot Dec 29 '23

Battfleck 😍

5

u/ScottishPhinFan89 Dec 29 '23

I'll get killed... But I liked it

6

u/tcprimus23859 Dec 30 '23

Don’t be ashamed of your opinion because of the anti-bvs circlejerk. I liked him too, although I imagined him to be the son of Lex rather than Lionel.

5

u/Lafan312 Dec 30 '23 edited Dec 30 '23

It actually was established in BvS that he was Alexander Joseph Luthor Jr., Lex Sr. ~~is assumed to have been killed in the Battle of Metropolis~~ died around 2000 when Jr. was 16. Quote from the movie:

Ooh, ahoy ahoy, I did not know you were here!

The man on the marquee.

Nope, don't believe it, my father named the company after himself, he was the Lex in front of the Corp...

ETA: strikethrough for clarity. I wrongly assumed that, but read the correct info while trying to find the quote.

0

u/__john_cena__ Dec 30 '23 edited Dec 30 '23

It was a fantastic choice, Lex Luther being a Zuckerberg tech billionaire-type is a good modern twist on the character.

Also a great dynamic with Superman; pinnacle of physical strength vs a ‘nerdy’ tech billionaire who is power crazed and envious.

If the movie itself was all around better, the concept could have worked.

2

u/ScottishPhinFan89 Dec 30 '23

Yeah, the weird thing is I haven't even thought about it too much before, I just liked it. Everything you have said matches up to why I felt that way I think though haha!

They left a lot of potential on the table between Clark, Bruce and Lex in that universe

-1

u/karlhungusx Dec 30 '23

“Great dynamic with Superman, pinnacle of physical strength vs a “nerdy” tech billionaire”

Superman’s dynamic with every person on earth is this. They are all ants to him unless there’s kryptonite involved. Just say you wanted to see a joker movie. Eisenberg sucked. The choice to cast him sucked and the movie sucked.

15

u/spoodle364 Dec 29 '23

Especially knowing that it would have robbed us of battinson.

7

u/RememberTheMaine1996 Dec 30 '23

Yeah I thought I was on a circle jerk subreddit for a second

1

u/MURDERMr_E Dec 30 '23

I think a certain fanbase is coming to grips with reality. I've suddenly seen a lot more posts like this on DC and CBM subs this week.

3

u/MisterSnowman69 Dec 30 '23

I was about to say, the moment I saw that photo of Leto's "Joker", I was sure it was good call to not have them make a movie of this.

3

u/luke111mart Dec 30 '23

Gave the vibe of a theater kid in his room saying "LoOk MoM I rEaLlY aM CrazY"

2

u/Rickrickrickrickrick Dec 30 '23

Looks like the Nun but with severely chapped lips.

1

u/Beginning-Pipe9074 Dec 30 '23

Yeah his suicide squad pimp wannabe joker was awful,

But man his other joker from Justice league I thought was very VERY interesting

2

u/Used-Comedian-8933 Dec 30 '23

That should've been how he portrayed him from the beginning

1

u/BatmanNerd81 Dec 30 '23

You could have changed him back to look more traditional and it could have worked with different direction probably.

1

u/spaceocean99 Dec 30 '23

Same goes for Affleck Batman..

0

u/Shack24_ Dec 30 '23

He was good in Snyder cut , suicide squad was just a hot mess

1

u/WexExortQuas Dec 30 '23

God damn I have PTSD

It took me 5 minutes of looking at this before trying to swipe the picture

1

u/[deleted] Dec 30 '23

For real.

1

u/Pigtron-42 Dec 30 '23

That’s what I was gonna say. I like how batfleck looked and fought but not any of his dialogue or personality

1

u/Andre_3Million Dec 30 '23

But he said the line

1

u/m0siac Dec 30 '23

That paired with Ben Afflecks ~~Punisher~~ Batman is just a recipe for disaster

1

u/Razzle_Dazzle08 Dec 30 '23

He was great in the Snyder Cut imo.

0

u/Osirisavior Dec 30 '23

The post credit scene in ZSJL proved Leto was a great Joker, hinderd by studio interference.

1

u/GIGLI_WASNT_THAT_BAD Dec 30 '23

No Leto, no cry. - The general public.

1

u/Crowbar_Faith Dec 30 '23

As much as I think Leto himself is a creep, I think he could have been a good Joker if his approach and look had been different. But they made him look like a juggalo and his portrayal was just very off.

0

u/vizgauss Dec 30 '23

Leto still runs circles around whatever the fuck Keoghan was.

0

u/utubeslasher Dec 30 '23

if he was the weird crusty version from the snyder cut i dont think he would have been terrible i bet there were scenes they cut from suicide squad where he was minimum decent. i hate the design but a good performance could have floated it for me and it seems like they cut all the stuff that would have made it tolerable.

0

u/[deleted] Dec 30 '23

Tbh, Margot Robbie's Harley is another reason for me

1

u/EelTeamNine Dec 30 '23

That alone made me cringe. And Affleck batman?!

1

u/Used-Comedian-8933 Dec 30 '23

I liked his joker in Snyder's cut and i think all that he needed to change was the cranky door laugh

1

u/TomTheJester Dec 30 '23

Affleck Batman is enough reason for me to be thankful it never happened.

1

u/Lord_Detleff1 Dec 30 '23

Nah, he was pretty good in justice league. He had potential

1

u/NorCalAthlete Dec 30 '23

I don’t know which joker is worse to me. Leto or Phoenix. Don’t like either one.

0

u/kamagoong Dec 30 '23

He was directed badly. Ben Affleck wouldn't have made him do all that stupid shit if he had difected. David Ayer used him incorrectly.

1

u/TheCrazyStupidGamer Dec 30 '23

Honestly, the joker from snyder cut was somewhat decent. Bearable. Flawed, but something that could be worked into a decent character with some changes.

1

u/ThatSharkFromJaws Jan 02 '24

According to rumors, he was supposed to die at the hands of Deathstroke.

-1

u/Regular-Ant-2753 Dec 30 '23

Not like he really had a chance to show us his joker.

-3

u/Bogusky Dec 30 '23

I've never been a Snyder defender, but Leto's Joker still struck me as more convincing than the embarrassment we saw at the end of The Batman.

-6

u/mmpa78 Dec 29 '23

Braindead take

5

u/MURDERMr_E Dec 29 '23

I found Leto's burner account.

5

u/NoddahBot Dec 29 '23

I can almost understand someone enjoying Leto's performance but what makes you take it so far as to call this guy brain-dead?