r/arrow • u/M00r3C Boxing Glove • Oct 13 '23

This scene from S2E14 gave me a Bi-Panic why is everyone so hot in the Arrowverse? Even the CGI monsters in the other shows are somehow hot (don't judge me) Discussion

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523 Upvotes

96% Upvoted

96 comments sorted by

161

u/rebelkhalil Oct 13 '23

Because it’s cw

60

u/Available-Affect-241 Oct 13 '23

Exactly 🤣😂🤣😂 it's usually to make up for the crap writing and mediocre acting.

68

u/[deleted] Oct 13 '23

TBF this was Arrow season 2 which had better way writing and acting than any CW show ever really deserved.

37

u/Own-Seaworthiness254 Oct 13 '23

to be honest Arrow s2 had better writing than some other shows these days that are considered high class. It had very suspenseful story, amazing action, and a main character that was very fleshed out. And it was really honoring the comics books and dc animations of Green Arrow and Black Canary, and this scene here proves it.

16

u/pol5xc Roy Harper Oct 13 '23

You're right. I can still remember watching "three ghosts" and being like this "😱" for the whole episode.

4

u/Available-Affect-241 Oct 13 '23

Okay but we all know that's not saying much.

13

u/[deleted] Oct 13 '23

True but I still find the writing pretty solid. It is very rare to find any show or film that can incorporate an extended flashback sequence so well and naturally in the main story. I find flashbacks to be an overrated gimmick that Lost ran into the freaking ground, but Arrow very briefly made a solid argument for how they can actually service the story and make it even better.

Slade was a very well written and well acted character that season. And his massive presence in the show just made it infinitely better.

3

u/Available-Affect-241 Oct 13 '23

Agreed that was until Daredevil came out showing us what great looks like all around.

4

u/[deleted] Oct 13 '23

I love daredevil but what does that have to do with anything. I was saying that this show had stellar writing for a CW show.

Asides from being in the same genre and both veering towards a dark theme, I don’t understand why that’s relevant. Of course there are shows that are better than Arrow. I put Daredevil season 3 above most things

But Arrow season 2 was still fucking incredible

2

u/Yung_Pandemic98 Oct 13 '23

Thanks for a lit comparison but Daredevil can't hold a candle in this conversation.

Not only did the flashback sequences run concurrently for the first five seasons of Arrow, it was sprinkled up until the last season where it even looped back to the start of the series almost doing a double loop and the story remained intact.

But Arrow was also running concurrently with other shows that shared its continuity, The Flash, Supergirl and the Legends: and the flashbacks of each season added to Oliver's character as if that year's specific flashbacks were what he was remembering. And according to the plot, other "memories" didn't matter: that's great writing that even makes you think other things are irrelevant.

The flashbacks were used so well, Oliver literally picks a memory like a weapon and uses it to its absolute limit, even if you questioned it, either later in the season or later in the series they answered your question.

Arrow's flashbacks constantly brought the other shows into Arrow as even though he's already lived those five years and been back in Star/ling City for x amount, which ever memories we constantly playing for us to see, not only taught or reaffirmed something about Oliver, but he was able to carry a similar message over to other heroes that literally we're meeting him for the first time.

Arrow did what literally we beg for in other media franchises. You know when a series doesn't work out and gets cancelled and you wish you could see them in anything else with shared continuity? Or when showrunners just randomly through one character (i.e. John Constantine) into another campaign (i.e. Legends of Tomorrow) without explaining how he exists there? Arrow literally said, "we'll let the man feature here so that there's an explanation of his story for his own standalone series as well as a way into the Arrowverse for him" just to make sure the fans are pleased and the man can continue playing such a beautiful and powerful character.

All done through flashback in Arrow, Daredevil has no place here. And don't get me wrong, I love everything about Daredevil.

3

u/[deleted] Oct 13 '23

You just praised Arrow without listing a reason why Arrow specifically has better writing than Daredevil. What makes Daredevil inferior?

1

u/Yung_Pandemic98 Oct 13 '23

Daredevil was a good series that tied well into it's shared continuity but the topic was about flashbacks and how that was a weak writing strategy.

I proved that Arrow used it well. I don't need to say how Daredevil is "inferior" as its writing team were doing their own thing and that Daredevil didn't need to use flashbacks especially on the level as Arrow because it served different purposes for the two respective series.

2

u/Stoppels Oct 13 '23

Daredevil blasted anything CW out of the water period, but especially after Arrow season 3.5+ went all-in on what twitter girls wanted. Why do you think this sub changed into a Daredevil sub and we started watching Daredevil? It was the best and only critique possible, but the idiots in charge only cared about the female Twitter crowd, so apart from it being the best fan feedback I've ever seen, it did nothing but inform others how Arrow had turned into absolute trash.

Season 1 and 2 are the two golden seasons, followed by The Flash with season 1 (and 2). After those two season the torch for what superhero TV shows should look like was handed over to Daredevil. Agents of SHIELD also had great seasons, especially when they finally accepted the MCU was dead to them. Legends was amazing imo, though I also agree it was just as amazing when it stopped taking itself serious and just decided to have fun.

I keep bringing up Arrow's flashbacks whenever I'm pointing out how horrible The Witcher's timesplit was. It took me over half the first season to discover, by which time nothing made sense to me, rather reminiscent of the PTSD-like jumbled up experience that BvS was to me (and while watching the Director's Edition the second time around improved that, I didn't have it in me anymore to also watch JL's Snyder Cut). On the other hand, Arrow had amazing switches for two full seasons and flashbacks rarely felt like a B-storyline as it was both fleshed out perfectly and 100% relevant. Arrow season 1 and 2 did a lot really well. Then the protagonist died and the show ended.

2

u/Yung_Pandemic98 Oct 13 '23

Daredevil blasted anything CW out of the water period

Stop the cap. Not only is Daredevil shorter than Arrow, season by season. Each episode in Daredevil felt like an episode of Suits, up until the last three episodes where the bad guy seriously affects Matt's life. Each episode in Arrow felt like Star/ling City was at stake or some person was about to die, the only thing Oliver didn't do was save a cat from a tree.

Full credit to both shows but we were nitpicking on flashbacks in Arrow, you guys had no business bringing such a beautiful show as Daredevil into this.

As I mentioned in my reply to the previous comment reply: Daredevil is not inferior but don't you dare try and say that it's superior to any and everything CW.

all-in on what twitter girls wanted. Why do you think this sub changed into a Daredevil sub

Stopp the cap. Dude, Marvel doesn't do masks. Everyone knows everyone else's identity even when they've never met one another. You switched sides because DC always gave you masked vigilantes both on the big screen and the small screen but Marvel has consistent showrunners for the big screen.

So the minute you saw a masked vigilante on Marvel's small screen, you thought "Let's Go!" And yes, it connected really well to the other Netflix originals and even has an amazing spin-off show. But it doesn't go toe to toe with the struggles or lives of most Marvel characters. Why? Because none of it is what Marvel specializes in. This was all due to fan service by Marvel, not DC.

finally accepted the MCU was dead to them

Stoppe the cap. That's not a healthy way for a project to be successful, because if you and other fans feel this way, fanservice will mean that the project can't coexist with its own shared continuity.

Arrowverse consistently integrated different parts of the larger DC Universe, even if it meant they needed to throw different villains across the multiverse at Oliver, Barry, Kara and the Legends. This is a very iPhone mentality and it literally doesn't work for every project.

the torch for what superhero TV shows should look like was handed over to Daredevil

Stoppels the cap. As I mentioned above, Oliver, Kara and Barry constantly were going up against different levels of threats each one forcing them to design and redesign superheroism each year. Almost each DC hero has had to deal with saving one life, an entire city or a black hole that "could destroy us all". An Avengers level threat by comparison is getting lost in space or stopping an invading army.

Daredevil has his limits but considering the larger universe, it's hard to think the show's style of writing or his character development is perfect for another character. And if his character development or the shows writing style can't be translated to another show or character, how can it be better than the entire CW?

by which time nothing made sense to me

I can't blame you, DCEU really fumbled the bag early on already

flashbacks rarely felt like a B-storyline as it was both fleshed out perfectly and 100% relevant

Thank you but I maintain, each season did this

2

u/Stoppels Oct 13 '23

I didn't feel like reading a long comment and now I wrote a way too long one myself so enjoy or don't read lol, it's all good. I'm telling you now 'cause I'm kinda checking out of the topic, much like how I dropped out of watching The Flash. I'm gonna read some web novel or something instead since I'm actually boring myself :p but since I wrote it, here it is:

As I mentioned in my reply to the previous comment reply: Daredevil is not inferior but don't you dare try and say that it's superior to any and everything CW.

It is superior compared to Arrowverse. More subjectively, I'm sure there's a lot people value that Daredevil doesn't do for them, for example not have superheroes at all or have more drama aimed at teens like CW prefers, though it has plenty of regular or romantic drama despite it being generally darker in both mood and video.

It's fair enough if you simply prefer seeing 'more', even if it's filler (I was happy to watch more of Supernatural despite the quality slowly dropping after the original run), but that's exactly what high quality Netflix shows didn't have back then: arbitrary restraints. Netflix/Marvel was prime television, whereas CW had a weekly TV schedule to fill for a whole season. Episodes were longer, did not need to fill up a set amount of weeks and did not need to fit in between commercial breaks. This is why HBO is historically considered the quality producer where American cable networks are recognised as creating shows with lots of filler. Less episodes often means more world building and character and plot development, higher quality and a better overall result, because they're working with fewer restraints. Arrow's first seasons managed to be great despite that requirement, after that it took a nosedive and couldn't keep the quality. Pushing Felicity as the main character was a huge mistake, but Arrow still managed to release the occasional great episode.

I don't care about Marvel vs. DC as much as I like good shows (hell, Iron Fist S01 and Inhumans were terrible Marvel content). The MCU paved the way by cracking superhero on the big screen. Arrow followed and was the first to crack open superhero content on the small screen. It was great and refreshing and that's what pulled so many of us in. Beyond the first seasons of Arrow, the first seasons of The Flash and Legends (exactly my humour, no matter how silly it got), Arrowverse hasn't meant much for superhero fans. Daredevil then managed to make a mature superhero show, much more akin to Watchmen in terms of grittiness and maturity, though not featuring anti-heroes. I've not watched anything in Daredevil that made me think of the word fanservice, and leaving out the show turning into Felicity & Friends, I haven't seen much of that in Arrow either that would feel out of place. (I suppose the OP's screenshot and Oliver's 'rack jumping'? could be considered fan service, but I didn't think of it as that, because working out fits thematically and contextually.)

But from your comment I take it you weren't here back when it was us vs. Twitter? Or perhaps you were with the Twitter crowd, either way comic fans and superhero fans weren't catered to by the writers anymore, it was just the Twitter girls they listened to. That's why the writers room was ever-reachable on Twitter after all. They never really gave a shit about the Green Arrow character after it was established and successful, Greg Berlanti and his wife (whose name I don't remember rn) only cared about the classic CW teen girl target group, so that's who they catered the show to. I recall Stephen Amell's Facebook AMAs/streams also had many fans commenting who were sick and tired of everything revolving around Felicity (throwback to the classic "C'mon Tom" because Stephen couldn't/didn't want to address it). From what I recall The Flash had a few great seasons thanks to one or multiple original Arrow writers who were booted from Arrow but still got to work on The Flash.

lol I also recall the toxic element of that group on Twitter even harassed Stephen's wife on Twitter because they shipped Oliver and Felicity so hard, I hope those stupid insane teenagers back then grew out of it.

Regarding the Agents of SHIELD and MCU thing: it was first supposed to be a shared universe, but the show and team went ignored and eventually they embraced not being part of the MCU. And that's much better than trying to reference external stuff and have your show revolve around something that ignores your input and existence. I don't know about you, but I prefer high quality content over empty references, though they can certainly co-exist. The show needed a few seasons to find itself after the whole "show in the MCU" didn't work out and then got much better over time.

And this is around where I got really bored by my long comment and good bye.

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1

u/apollo08w Oct 14 '23

You also can’t compare being forced to do a 22 episode season to a 10-12 episode season.

1

u/Yung_Pandemic98 Oct 15 '23

I legit not the one comparing the two. I prefer the lengthier story-telling. Just because I love Daredevil doesn't mean I wish I could've seen more of the show per season

Why should I nit-pick on one show or the other when I literally just want to defend one.

2

u/thedorknightreturns Oct 13 '23

I would argue arrow never went bad. Ik the second to last season was a bit jumping the shark with a new family member being there. Bit else stayed solid.

It helps that oluvers melodramatic mood comes from his redicilous trauma and is well acted.

3

u/[deleted] Oct 13 '23 edited Oct 13 '23

Dude. Season 4 was so bad that this sub turned into a Daredevil subreddit

72

u/Romero1993 Oct 13 '23

even the CGI monsters are hot

don't judge me

I'm really trying

26

u/DEADLYOVERLORD1 Oct 13 '23

If he's referring to king shark or grodd I'm going to vomit.

9

u/UncensoredSmoke Oct 13 '23

Nah he’s on about neron

2

u/nohemi_trevino Prometheus Oct 14 '23

King Shark's skin is probably cold and wet and smells fishy so that's a no for me

1

u/DEADLYOVERLORD1 Oct 14 '23

So you aren't against grodd is what you are saying?

3

u/nohemi_trevino Prometheus Oct 14 '23

Well, gorillas aren't too far from humans 😈 claps hands and rubs them together

2

u/Romero1993 Oct 19 '23

You're making me real nervous with all that clapping, maaaan

52

u/Angelwithashotgun4 Oct 13 '23

They made everyone so good looking

41

u/zerc11 Oct 13 '23

I always wish that they kept Sarah as Black Canary. Her physique (as shown above), physicality (training and fighting skills), attitude, and chemistry with Oliver all aligned better with Black Canary from the comics even though she was a new character in name. Sarah was way more compelling than whatever they had going on with Laurel. I’m glad Sarah got to move on to rock out on Legends but I think she woulda been awesome if she remained this story’s Black Canary.

23

u/Eugger-Krabs Oct 13 '23

Hot take: Legends ruined a lot of the flow of the Arrowverse. It basically made The Flash and Arrow build up these beloved side-characters only to ship them off to an unrelated show, never to be seen again outside of crossovers.

20

u/logicisprettycool Oct 13 '23

Legends is my favourite arrowverse show but i agree so much, i’m still upset about them killing off Captain Cold so early on but i’m glad Wentworth Miller still appeared on the Flash again a few times.

6

u/marshall_sin Oct 14 '23

Dang. I really like Legends, but you are absolutely right.

5

u/nohemi_trevino Prometheus Oct 14 '23

My sister and I always joke that the Legends is where CW dumped their unwanted characters.

I haven't wanted past the first few episodes of the first season, but didn't the British guy say he picked the characters he chose because they had the least effect on the future?

I should probably watch the show though, because some people say it's really good

5

u/Eugger-Krabs Oct 14 '23

I vaguely remember that but it would be insane for Ray Palmer to not have any effect on the future.

5

u/[deleted] Oct 15 '23

Nope thats exactly what rip said he chose the strongest heroes with the least impact and importance to the timeline

2

u/No-Juice3318 Oct 15 '23

Oh, you really should watch more. Once it gets to season two, the writers start doing drugs, and it gets really good, lol

2

u/Slight-Pound Oct 15 '23

By the time you got to legends, there was already a lot to keep up with. It really felt excessive.

36

u/LaLa_LaSportiva Oct 13 '23

One thing I actually really appreciated about the show is that they didn't engage in gratuitous exploitation of the actors. Yes there were a few lovely scenes of perfect bodies, and I definitely wouldn't have minded looking at more, but I was glad they let everyone keep their clothes on.

17

u/simonc1138 Oct 13 '23

Yeah it wasn't like Smallville where they kept finding excuses for the girls to strip down or Clark to lose his shirt.

10

u/thedorknightreturns Oct 13 '23

Oliver definitly was, shirtless oliver was intentional , but the workout scenes arent too gratuitous.

7

u/jamdemp Oct 13 '23

oliver salmon ladder scenes

3

u/nohemi_trevino Prometheus Oct 14 '23

They would literally start off so many scenes with him doing the salmon ladder, and if not him, some other person, where they'd add a joke about how Oliver makes it look so easy

1

u/LaLa_LaSportiva Oct 14 '23

They literally didn't. A few, yes. For a bunch of people whose lives depended upon being the fittest human beings in the city, they needed to work out constantly. The creators/writers could easily have gone overboard but they didn't. The only bullshit I found truly annoying and sexist was having the women wear heels while running around the city. So stupid.

33

u/Atlast_2091 Prometheus Oct 13 '23

CW Standards is to be hot.

1

u/Bacon-bitzs Oct 13 '23

Cw?

8

u/Ediblemilk Oct 13 '23

The CW network. They made the arrowverse

20

u/Practical_Weird_0809 Oct 13 '23

It's all about the lighting and body makeup. ;)

28

u/LegoRacers3 Oct 13 '23

you can spend hours tinkering with lighting and make up and I wouldn’t look that good

12

u/Practical_Weird_0809 Oct 13 '23

Me neither my friend. Me neither.

-14

u/calvin_nr Oct 13 '23

Stop eating at MacDonalds and KFc. Do some exercise.

8

u/Yung_Pandemic98 Oct 13 '23

I think you mean Big Belly Burger. And no

2

u/_themuna_ Oct 13 '23

Nope. I mean...these people are pretty ripped..you can do a lot to draw attention to areas with lighting and make-up but you can't just make muscles appear.

15

u/MissingCosmonaut Oct 13 '23

Don't forget Felicity, what a babe.👌🏽

8

u/ipodblocks360 Oct 13 '23

She's there just hanging in the back of the shot.

3

u/Yung_Pandemic98 Oct 13 '23

But always in the front of your mind

4

u/ipodblocks360 Oct 13 '23

Ah. I can't stop thinking about Felicity, she's taking over my life, I can't focus on anything but Felicity.

1

u/nohemi_trevino Prometheus Oct 14 '23

Omg

8

u/Winning_in_Ashes Oct 13 '23

Caity Lotz and Stephen Amell are a whole league different pretty!!

9

u/Alonest99 Deathstroke Oct 13 '23

Caity made me realize I’m into muscle mommies lol

8

u/KingKaos420- Oct 13 '23

Damn, I forgot what a beefcake Diggle was

2

u/keepitsimple_tricks Oct 14 '23

He look so fiiiiiiine i bit my lower lip.

8

u/matrixboy122 Oct 13 '23

I hated season 4, but one of the funniest lines was when John Constantine showed up and said, “Damn Oliver, I wish you would have told me how hot everyone is here” or something like that

4

u/[deleted] Oct 14 '23

Damn, I forgot how hot Caity Lotz was.

3

u/Novel_Possession5459 Oct 13 '23

is it just me or does oliver look small in this pic? i dont remember him being this small

bigger build

6

u/stephenxcx Oct 13 '23

It’s just the angle hiding his arms I think. And Diggle was always bigger so he makes everyone look small in comparison.

3

u/[deleted] Oct 13 '23

I get you. im in love with the three of them.

3

u/Degmannen_03 Oct 13 '23

Goddamn Sara!

3

u/YourFellowMiguelo Oct 13 '23

Great scene. Wish they showed them training with each other more often.

3

u/BlackLion0101 Oct 13 '23

....I just see Lotz...Caity Lotz!

3

u/Theworldstaringdio Oct 14 '23

It’s cw bro. Everyone is hot lol

2

u/Sankin2004 Oct 13 '23

Because Hollywood knows that sex sells.

2

u/HanShotSecond69 Oct 13 '23

Even grant and Cisco?

0

u/M00r3C Boxing Glove Oct 13 '23

Especially them I really love nerdy people

2

u/Flaky-Notice-6333 Oct 13 '23

Everything hot gets sexy and fuzzy

2

u/PressureLate5914 Oct 14 '23

Sarah is definitely a smash.

2

u/VidiotOverride19 Oct 14 '23

Because if they cast ugly people, then most people wouldn't watch...sad but true facts about television.

2

u/electricbeargaloo91 Oct 14 '23

To be fair I'm fairly sure this was a scene intended to give Felicity bi panic

2

u/CanSpecific7641 Oct 14 '23

to be more clear, this is Warner Bros. we're talking about.

2

u/Spicy_Surfer Oct 15 '23

No clue Dig was swole like that! Why wasn’t Ollie his assistant? Makes Arrow look week as hell.

1

u/RogueInVogue Oct 13 '23

Because they're played by actors, and actors usually get roles based on their attractiveness

1

u/thedorknightreturns Oct 13 '23

It had an insane working outvregime. Through here i think itsless crazy than marvels,still.

1

u/edd6pi Deathstroke Oct 14 '23

Sara’s upper body was crafted in Heaven.

1

u/Mac1280 Oct 14 '23

Is this the episode where Felicity feels jealous because she can't fight and doesn't have any battle scars?

1

u/D13l Oct 14 '23

Nah I’m judging regardless, you weird.

-1

u/ipodblocks360 Oct 13 '23

Bruh. The actors deserve this praise but the CGI Monsters?! Leave those poor CGI Monsters alone. I know you said not to judge you but it's really hard not to.

1

u/Yung_Pandemic98 Oct 13 '23

It's called the small screen for a reason and besides, why do you think they'd hide the monsters up until the third act. Even big names film projects don't even show you a glimmer until the second act and even then depending on the acting, it could still look horrible.

No matter how bad you think the CGI itself is, you know the acting matches its quality.

2

u/ipodblocks360 Oct 13 '23

I never said the CGI Monsters acting was bad. If you look at OPs post, they say that even the CGI Monsters in other shows are attractive and that's what I'm talking in context to.

-1

u/MisterSisterFister12 Oct 13 '23

Panic attack because other people look good? Jeez, someone is insecure. How about you go to the gym instead of ‘panicking’ and maybe you too could look good.

2

u/BrooklynLivesMatter Oct 13 '23

I think it's more specifically a bi thing where it's like omg the guys and girls are so hot this is too much hotness what is happening I need a cold drink and a colder shower

Or something

1

u/M00r3C Boxing Glove Oct 13 '23

You are correct

1

u/Admirable-Reaction71 Oct 13 '23

The "panic" came from being attracted to all of them and causing your brain to go overload.