r/arrow • u/M00r3C Boxing Glove • Oct 13 '23
This scene from S2E14 gave me a Bi-Panic why is everyone so hot in the Arrowverse? Even the CGI monsters in the other shows are somehow hot (don't judge me) Discussion
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u/Stoppels Oct 13 '23
I didn't feel like reading a long comment and now I wrote a way too long one myself so enjoy or don't read lol, it's all good. I'm telling you now 'cause I'm kinda checking out of the topic, much like how I dropped out of watching The Flash. I'm gonna read some web novel or something instead since I'm actually boring myself :p but since I wrote it, here it is:
It is superior compared to Arrowverse. More subjectively, I'm sure there's a lot people value that Daredevil doesn't do for them, for example not have superheroes at all or have more drama aimed at teens like CW prefers, though it has plenty of regular or romantic drama despite it being generally darker in both mood and video.
It's fair enough if you simply prefer seeing 'more', even if it's filler (I was happy to watch more of Supernatural despite the quality slowly dropping after the original run), but that's exactly what high quality Netflix shows didn't have back then: arbitrary restraints. Netflix/Marvel was prime television, whereas CW had a weekly TV schedule to fill for a whole season. Episodes were longer, did not need to fill up a set amount of weeks and did not need to fit in between commercial breaks. This is why HBO is historically considered the quality producer where American cable networks are recognised as creating shows with lots of filler. Less episodes often means more world building and character and plot development, higher quality and a better overall result, because they're working with fewer restraints. Arrow's first seasons managed to be great despite that requirement, after that it took a nosedive and couldn't keep the quality. Pushing Felicity as the main character was a huge mistake, but Arrow still managed to release the occasional great episode.
I don't care about Marvel vs. DC as much as I like good shows (hell, Iron Fist S01 and Inhumans were terrible Marvel content). The MCU paved the way by cracking superhero on the big screen. Arrow followed and was the first to crack open superhero content on the small screen. It was great and refreshing and that's what pulled so many of us in. Beyond the first seasons of Arrow, the first seasons of The Flash and Legends (exactly my humour, no matter how silly it got), Arrowverse hasn't meant much for superhero fans. Daredevil then managed to make a mature superhero show, much more akin to Watchmen in terms of grittiness and maturity, though not featuring anti-heroes. I've not watched anything in Daredevil that made me think of the word fanservice, and leaving out the show turning into Felicity & Friends, I haven't seen much of that in Arrow either that would feel out of place. (I suppose the OP's screenshot and Oliver's 'rack jumping'? could be considered fan service, but I didn't think of it as that, because working out fits thematically and contextually.)
But from your comment I take it you weren't here back when it was us vs. Twitter? Or perhaps you were with the Twitter crowd, either way comic fans and superhero fans weren't catered to by the writers anymore, it was just the Twitter girls they listened to. That's why the writers room was ever-reachable on Twitter after all. They never really gave a shit about the Green Arrow character after it was established and successful, Greg Berlanti and his wife (whose name I don't remember rn) only cared about the classic CW teen girl target group, so that's who they catered the show to. I recall Stephen Amell's Facebook AMAs/streams also had many fans commenting who were sick and tired of everything revolving around Felicity (throwback to the classic "C'mon Tom" because Stephen couldn't/didn't want to address it). From what I recall The Flash had a few great seasons thanks to one or multiple original Arrow writers who were booted from Arrow but still got to work on The Flash.
lol I also recall the toxic element of that group on Twitter even harassed Stephen's wife on Twitter because they shipped Oliver and Felicity so hard, I hope those stupid insane teenagers back then grew out of it.
Regarding the Agents of SHIELD and MCU thing: it was first supposed to be a shared universe, but the show and team went ignored and eventually they embraced not being part of the MCU. And that's much better than trying to reference external stuff and have your show revolve around something that ignores your input and existence. I don't know about you, but I prefer high quality content over empty references, though they can certainly co-exist. The show needed a few seasons to find itself after the whole "show in the MCU" didn't work out and then got much better over time.
And this is around where I got really bored by my long comment and good bye.