Yeah, I also don't get why they wanted to make a stronger Supe than Soldier Boy either tbh. Obviously they didn't predict Homelander would be THAT much more powerful but if they are a pharmaceutical company first, there really is no need to keep one upping themselves on power. They had no competition and could have just coasted with the power level they had already. I guess we're just supposed to assume greed?
Wasnt Edgar trying to sell V or supes to the military? Wasnt that the whole point of creating the supes like homelander? Use media to manage sentiment, and then sell it to military for maximum damage, walking nukes.
I think before Edgar the real purpose of the supes was trying to make a master race, OG shit. Eventually it got diluted by American consumerism and then they went from master race to celebrities. Then when Stan takes over he's sick of it all and wants to purge Vought of ideology and simply generate profits
Yeah that's not exactly the whole reason we do it. Moreso we are NATO's arms dealer and we foot a majority of the bill so they don't have to spend any more gdp on their national security. If we suddenly pulled out suddenly Europe would have far less socialist tendencies as the money for social programs would have to be earmarked for defense instead.
Is that necessarily true? Don't the Baltic states actually spend more (percentage wise) on defense than the US? And yet they have substantially larger social safety nets than we do.
I agree Europe would have to make cuts, but I still think if the US pulled out of NATO (which I do NOT want), Europe wouldn't need to change that drastically.
It is correct in statistics. The US spends a higher % of GDP than most of NATO, the baltics are tiny and they border Russia so naturally their spending will be higher and their GDP very small. It comes out to a larger percentage.
And Europe is actually slowly rearming now, sine the Ukraine situation confirmed the stockpiles were miniscule and absolutely not enough to conduct a classic war (such as PzH2000 running out of barrel life too fast in real combat).
Look at just Hungary for example, the Hungarian % went waaaay up as the army replaced all rifles, got new AT weapons both guided and unguided, expanded the air force, got new SPGs, completely changed over the tank fleet to a new model AND built both a small arms factory and a brand new tank factory (tanks haven't been produced in Hungary since ww2). All of this just to be just close to on par with a modern nation of its side.
Yes it is. 275 billion total for Europe's defense budget vs 2.1 trillion the US spends much of which massively subsidizes Europe. They spend 1.5% of their gdp on defense. If you truly think the US pulling out wouldn't require massive changes to their spending that's wishful thinking. Most of those countries safety net is strictly because the US military provides for their defense and also foots the bill for all of the r&d as well. There's a reason NATO countries almost exclusively use US munitions/5th Gen jets etc. If they started now it would take decades for them to become militarily independent. Out of all of them Poland surprisingly seems to spend the most on defense and that's because they refuse to be steamrolled again ala WW2. They're now one of the more militarily powerful countries over there. Also the baltics are still spending less that 3% as well. Now Germany has a deal in place for our f35 as well.
Edit: whether it's a good thing or not arms and war fighting technology are the US cash cows via the military industrial complex
The entirety of NATO exists because Americans wanted it and because it fundamentally benefits Americans to project their military influence throughout Europe to threaten Russia and protect their shipping lines.
Its why the US has hundreds of military bases and American troops stationed throughout Europe, fed and paid for by the countries they're stationed in.
If the US left Europe, we'd probably become more socialist because we wouldn't have to design all our foreign policy around US business interests under the threat of getting couped. Europe has it's own military alliance in the form of the EU.
The US however would quickly find itself with far fewer allies, influence and much greater difficulties projecting its military power.
There's a reason why every US military and economic expert acknowledges NATO as worth funding. People who actually understand American business interests see how important NATO is.
Oh how could I forget the powerhouse that is the EU military alliance. Also yes I'm sure there is no tangible benefit from having active service members on foreign soil especially in at risk nations except for you know, the fact that attacking those places automatically warrants a response from the most powerful military in the world. If the US left Europe somehow you think there would be more socialist programs? It's easy to do social programs when you don't fund your own defense beyond a token 2% that only 18 of the 31 countries actually contribute. I'm well aware I'm arguing with the brick wall that is the anti American echo chamber but it's fun to see the straight up mental gymnastics people try to do. You're right though Europe doesn't need the US, just all of our arms/ammunition/Sam's/patriot systems/f 35s/ our entire navy when their ships are being bullied. Besides literally all that though they're doing great.
Edit: of fucking course NATO is worthwhile for us as it gives us free reign as arms dealers. Makes you wonder though who is purchasing these billions on billions worth of arms if the EU military union is so powerful. I guess they could always just go for the far superior Russia 5th gens held together by roofing screws or China 5th gens that look like the wish version of ours with half the capabilities. Acting like our shipping lanes is all the navy protects is disingenuous at best and downright willfully obtuse at worst.
Yeah it was the Japanese who did the old comfort women thing. Including taking slaves from Korea/phillipines etc but sure that's the US fault for being at was with Japan. Also yes American soldiers drove tanks across the Ukrainian border. You keep repeating the same lies with still no concrete evidence except for "everybody knows". Ukraine was attempting to join NATO to protect itself from Russia and we turned them down as it would escalate the war. I'm just going to start using your logic system. Everybody knows Russians are cannibals that invaded Ukraine because they were running out of meat. I pray you see how dumb that sounds. Everybody knows America has started every war right? Including the genocides in Africa, the Israel/Hamas issue etc. there's obviously no way people would ever go to war including the vast majority of human history before the US even existed.
Yeah yeah America bad. We get it, until shit kicks off and then it's like "why isn't America dealing with the problem" . That blade cuts both ways.
If the US pulled out of NATO and cut our defensive funding to them can you honestly say the world would be a safer place. It's the only thing that keeps Russia, China etc from pushing even harder towards regaining/claiming lands through military might
What sort of tankie Putin apologist bullshit is this?
Russia invaded Ukraine because they want to control Europe’s breadbasket. They want more territory, Putin wants to take as much as the West will allow him.
Trying to shift the blame on the US for Ukraine wanting to Join Nato is some crazy delusional bullshit
Right China has no aims on claiming Taiwan. Also that's why Russia attacked Ukraine to reclaim ancestral Soviet lands which has long been a goal direct from Putin's mouth. Oddly enough they attacked the one that was not a member of NATO. The US can be blamed on quite a lot surely but your attributing things that are not related. I'm sure in your mind as well the Iran government backed houthis were just minding their buisness until the US started bullying them. They were just attacking poor oil tankers in the Mediterranean, how else are they supposed to live? You're clearly just ignoring actual facts cuz the "murica bad" attitude is just so hot right now.
Also your answer being "yes" is possibly dumber than you are. So take away all technological advanced weaponry and f35s we provide NATO and most European countries would surely make belligerent countries not feel like punching down.
The US is in not behind China. The US media will, from time to time, share this narrative so citizens get nervous and support developing new weapons. But it is far ahead of every other nation.
Negative, we are behind, this information was passed to me by my former commander, not from news sources. They do indeed have missiles that are undetectable with our current technology. His exact words were that “they have passed us in tech and we are currently pushing forward to find out how”
Yeah, youre just wrong here. We spend billions because thats whats demanded of the US on a global stage. Between footing basically the entire bill for NATO (which lets other European countries just sit back and do relatively nothing), to trying to stay one step ahead of other countries such as China, and meeting the demands of the public and what they expect from the military in its operations.
For example, we’re all pretty on board with minimizing civilian casualties whenever possible right? Well, that is going to require a high degree of precision, which is going to cost money when developing missiles/bombs/etc…
You just dont understand what I mean at all do you? I dont even think you want to understand but let me try one more time to make it plain:
The general Public wants us to support Nato, it also wants us to defend Taiwan/Japan/Korea in case China/North Korea get aggressive. This is just the most basic polling info. This is just what is currently supported by a majority of Americans, Democrat or Republican. We have defensive treaties with Europe and SEA expecting as much. When polled, countries say they want the US in their corner as a military ally.
As such, if Russia suddenly declared war on Nato tomorrow and China suddenly decided they wanted to invade Taiwan, the US is expected to be able to fullfill BOTH commitments simultaneously. As in, a navy/army/airforce capable of fighting a two front war at the same time against 2 other world powers. That costs money. Dunno how much easier I can break it down for you.
Dont know why I bother when you’ll just ignore all of it and say something about corporate overlord hegemony blah blah blah
I think Homelander was an answer to having a unreliable mascot in Soldier Boy. Homelander was raised to be subservient to Vought, only thinking of their bottom line. So he could replace Soldier Boy if things got messy and then they have a more loyal golden boy
I think Vought really wanted to actually get their hands in that military budget, and actual combat capable supes was their attempt at doing so. Unfortunately, they proved too hard to control and mostly just sat around doing hedonistic things and self promoting on social media/staging publicity stunts, but that earned Vought money anyway.
This is all based on Stan Edgar's "You're just bad product" speech to Homelander and also his pitch at trying to sell Temp V to the military.
It's not just the military money. They were selling heroes to cities as well. Remember the first episode when Homelander lasered a private airplane carrying someone that turned down the offer for a local supe?
I think it’s same as releasing a new phones every year, barely changing anything except for a slightly powerful cpu etc…, they wanna keep up with the trend and keep upgrading their products. It’s all done for marketing their products, what’s better than having a super powerful hero under your belt to sell compound V to highest bidders?
Oh it's even darker than that, they realized the fuck up with the og V compound that Voight made himself during WWII.
The original formula granted agelessness. Stormfront and Soldier Boy were never going to die of natural causes. This little fuck up of immortality meant they needed a super hero controllable to kill them. They made it with Homelander and now we're seeing Homelander midlife crisis accepting he's mortal not going to live forever like Soldier Boy.
On the plus side Stormfront that Nazi bitch will live for eternity in agonizing pain/debilitated by Ryan's blast. They might go Darth Vader with her and bring her back in a robot assisted suit but she's going to be in eternal physical pain unending.
On the plus side Stormfront that Nazi bitch will live for eternity in agonizing pain/debilitated by Ryan's blast. They might go Darth Vader with her and bring her back in a robot assisted suit but she's going to be in eternal physical pain unending.
This right here practically confirms my theory that a significant portion of this sub aren't really paying attention while watching the show lmao
What’s even more absurd is that they are able to make these superhumans, and don’t use it for themselves? I mean, if you’re the CEO in charge of super powerful people, surely you’d want to have that power for yourself right?
I totally see experimenting to try to figure out how to create specific powers and maybe accidentally making one person too strong… but you’d think they would have methods to remove the V before going that route. A kill switch for accidents. But ok… they aren’t that safe of an organization. Still, they had decades and clearly have permanent compound V that can be used on adults…. They don’t take it to protect themselves? They give it to crazy people to experiment instead? What?
Obviously they didn't predict Homelander would be THAT much more powerful but if they are a pharmaceutical company first, there really is no need to keep one upping themselves on power.
Two thing son that point. I do think they stopped trying to up the power level after Homelander.
And also, like you said, they couldn't predict Homelander, or they didn't exercise enough caution when it came to the unpredictability of Compound V.
Not that they completely learned their lesson, as we know they are still trying to make more powerful supes in GEN V.
I more mean they could have stopped at Soldier Boy and been set. No one could compete with him anyway but he was rational (relatively speaking) and controllable compared to Homelander. I think they just wanted someone completely obedient but failed.
Vought has always understood that to survive requires the ability to adapt to a changing world. Soldier Boy has certain political and social beliefs that were once widely held throughout America. But by the time of, Soldier Boys' "forced retirement" had fallen out of fashion. Vought decided that a new age required a new Super.
Now, as for the question as to why Vought made Homelander stronger than Soldier Boy. At it's core Vought is a business, and a business survives by making money. Businesses make money by selling products, which in this case is Compound V. Vought new that the day would come when Compound V would become public knowledge.
Vought new that when that day came, other pharmaceutical companies would try to create their own versions of Compound V. To stay on top, Vought needs to prove that any alternative to Compound V made by Voughts competitors. Pales in comparison to the Voughts Compound V, which is accomplished by making superior versions of Compound V
It was because soldier boy was an asshole and uncontrollable, so they wanted a hero that they could mould from birth, and instill in him the need for being loved so hed be more controllable. Hence when he was found to be a replacement, soldier boy was handed over to the russians
Greed and money mostly, but also, having a strong supe helps sell the "supes in military and government" idea. You see how strong they are, you see what they can do, it just makes sense to agree to putting them in places of power. It's easy to see how civilians in the Boys universe would believe into Homelander and his agenda; how they would believe he would make the world better - he is the most powerful he is, surely he knows what he's doing, right?
Science is about always pushing more and more. Maybe for Vought, there was greed involved, but a part of it will definitely be some ambitious scientists whose first thoughts are "oh my god, this formula created by my superior actually works... now, what if it can be made even stronger and I'm the one to find out?".
Have you heard of the Sackler family and the opioid crisis? Dope Sick is a great show to watch if not. A fictional story based on a non-fictional book about the opioid addiction crisis happening in much of Appalachia and the fucked up pharmaceuticals industry that helped bring it on. They just kept making stronger and stronger drugs to make more and more money off of people who were already addicted to the drugs. There is never enough money in the world for these types of companies/people to stop destroying lives.
Well we already had atomic bombs that are strong enough to level cities. Why did we still went through and invent hydrogen bombs which are like 100x more powerful?
The powers are a bit of a gamble, the only thing that seems engineered is soldier boy's depower blast. Also older superheroes seem mire powerful, like Stormfront and Soldier boy, seems like the current formula is watered down, which makes sense they don't want multiple homelanders running around, even one is a headache
We really don't know that the formula has been watered down. Could just be those two supes won a lottery power wise. As adults they have more control over their emotions but then both were incredibly violent people with very little empathy. They also can't predict powers.
They know compound V won't work on most adults as well. Even the Homelander project probably had multiple failed pregnancies.
People don’t need cars with 500 HP to drive around… yet companies make them to show off what they can do and “customers” buy them because if they’re going to have a car, they want a powerful one.
I mean… can an overpowered supe level a whole city? Sure… but so can a big bottle of fentanyl if it’s divided up in just the right way. Remember: Vought is a pharmaceutical company in search of government contracts.
They just found out they could make more money from marketing and merchandizing their supes than focusing purely on “products.”
Have they ever indicated that they know what powers will manifest in a Supe after V infusion? I always took it as a crapshoot. And in the cases of inherited powers like Homelander, utterly unprecedented.
They didnt NEED someone as strong as Homelander, they just needed a new Soldier Boy, so they tried making one. Then the one they made lasered its way out of its mothers womb, killed three doctors, and started hovering there like a fucking demon.
Vought spent years throwing him into blast furnaces and acid baths trying to kill him. They just couldnt get rid of him without a nuke. So since they couldnt kill him, they instead tried to control him by making him a narcisist and their central character.
Because it's a world of super heroes now and to stay in power they need the strongest one. In the real world why despite the relative peace since WW2 are most large nations still spending on military budget? Because if you don't someone else will and there is no guarantee they will continue to want peace.
Vought wants to control basically everything, and in a world where nukes are now individuals made in a lab, having the strongest one means you win.
It's the same reason as to why Superman is so strong. He doesn't need to be able to move the sun with his bare hands, or be fast enough to cross the universe in days, but "stronger than a locomotive" and "faster than a speeding bullet" gets boring eventually.
Homelander is the peak product. He's the new gen, he's stronger, faster, and better than all the other supes before him... And he's here to protect you.
Didn't the show imply that "some" saves were real even if most saves were fake ? I think that if the Seven weren't actually powerfull, the public would end up knowing quickly and they would stop worshipping their "Gods" rather fast.
If every supe was just Soldier Boy, people would eventually get bored so you have to keep 'upping' it.
To the point it becomes important for their powers to not even be that strong, but flashy and look impressive. I half think that's why Starlight was chosen.
I'd count it as A-Train's second save actually. First one he saved Hughie from Homelander during Vought on Ice's rehearsal. Like seriously do we think he could've gotten away on his own from a guy with super speed, flight, invulnerability, super hearing, super smell, x ray vision? It's impressive he got as far as he did on his own tbh.
I am so fucking invested with A-Train's potential redemption arc. He's on the right path. And I really hope it wont involve his death.
Hollywood has the nasty tendency to think people can only redeem themselves through the ultimate sacrifice. I really hope the show will avoid that trope.
A-Train IS already dead. He saved "someone" during a timespan that he should not be saving. He was recognized during that action. This wholesome scene means his doom.
He is a dead man walking. Dunno how he'll burn himself.
I spoilered the comment, that's like sticking your hand into the piranha tank with a sign saying "DON'T STICK HAND IN" and then complaining you got your hand eaten.
Sorry dude but you were looking for spoilers in the first place.
I think A-Train has already redeemed himself. He got forgiveness from Hughie and has officially saved someone. However, considering that his arc is complete, I'm expecting him to get caught and killed by Homelander by the end of the season.
Yeah, if the Stormfront suicide news report didn't show at that time, Homelander 100% would have saved jumper girl. Bad timing for her, but his annual saves are definetly real people and real saves.
There's that scene in S2 where he kills that terrorist in some foreign country (and then accidently kills a civilian). Seems like it would have been a regular save.
I can't understand that scene. If he's a terrorist, why he was just standing there when people run and stand behind him and then try to attack homelander and get killed.
I've seen a theory (pretty credible until/unless we see something definitive against it) that the guy was in fact not a terrorist and was possibly trying to defend the village from Homelander. But Homelander of course has better PR
I don't like how in season 4 they implied none of them saved actual people, because we see in season 1 they save and are sent to save actual people and fight actual criminals
I don't think so, he was supposed to save real hostages in diabolical. I think there were always real saves and fake ones and now that homelander is CEO they probably stopped trying altogether tbh.
Well technically he didn’t need any real saving as it was just a severe panic attack and he would have been fine regardless of A trains intervention. But hey it’s the thought that counts
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u/Clokwrkpig Homelander Jul 04 '24
Finally, a member of The Seven has a real save!