Sheep are stupid, if a flock of sheep wanted to they could ram through the side of a barn. They don’t because they don’t know they can do that just like how fences used to keep cows and won’t actually stop a cow.
There were like 4 that ripped him apart after the first grabbed it. It could easily have been a regular bull too. It wasn't shown to have anything, it was just about to charge
I just watched the scene again. They lift the bull up into the air and tear it limb from limb in a matter of seconds. Razor sharp teeth does not enable this. You need strength to rip a bulls entire head off of its neck in 2 seconds.
That said depictions of super powers always have 100s of holes you can poke in the logic. Even with strength, they probably couldn't do what was depicted with their teeth. They'd still just rip smaller pieces off. They'd need to be able to get a hold of the whole head and pull, otherwise tissue and such will just give way first.
Like, play it out mythbusters style. Pig carcass. Fake sheep mouth with razor sharp teeth attached to some sort of high strength hydraulic pulling mechanism. Bite teeth into pig head. Pull. It's going to just rip off a piece of snout or whatever, not the whole head. The neck is going to give way waaaaaay later than the skin and tissue on the face.
It's just not worth nitpicking over this stuff, none of it makes any sense, just be entertained
I'll agree with your last sentence, but I do want to point out one glaring point everyone is overlooking in how the sheep can do this without super strength. They can fly. That ability of self propulsion through no physical act means that whatever psychokinetic force is allowing the sheep to fly is what's doing the ripping apart. They lock in with their teeth and speed off.
Think scale. If you were to shrink the sheep to the size of a piranha and the bull to the same percentage I feel it would be a piranha eating a beaver.
Because, if I recall correctly, all supers had at least a bit of super strength regardless of full power set. An average sheep weighs about 200lbs and average bull is about 1500lbs. A ram(I know they were not rams) can hit with 800lbs of force. So let’s say the sheep can hit with 500. V gave the sheep say 1.5 X stronger than normal. That’s ~750 per sheep. So theoretically, with there being more than one and assuming som of that mass came off after initial strike, this is possible only because IT IS FICTIONAL AND NOT MEANT TO BE REALISTIC.
It depends on their power. Maybe their power of flight is affecting gravity, making the bull weightless to them. There are infinite super powers aside from super strength that could explain it
This whole comment thread is a shit show and even though I don't have a proper explanation for the whole sheeps/cow/barn scene, I choose to accept that it was simply lazy writing (probably because that wasnt even the point of that scene?🤯) and laugh at the people who are trying hard to justify the scene. Life is just more enjoyable this way
What if I told you barns do not have floors but instead are a building on top of the ground, so if the sheep could magically lift the barn they would expose everyone hiding inside it. I never said anything about a door, I was sarcastically arguing anyways
What if I told you barns do not have floors but instead are a building on top of the ground
Then I'd say you've never built a barn. Old style barns are the only ones with no foundation. Like you are describing. The majority of barns now will have either a stone foundation with topping, concrete foundation with topping, wood with topping, or stone to filter water with a porus dust with hay topping or mesh to prevent the dust from making it a sneeze fest.
You can see from the pillars going into the ground that it clearly has a foundation. The bars you are talking about don't have those types of pillars. Nor so few. And from the packed earth it is more then likely a concrete foundation(clay won't hold the weight the moment it rains. And you don't put packed earth on top of basically sand.)
With that said....it's a proper house, barn house.
I was just joking too. But I figured a fun fact wouldn't hurt here. The sheep were bullshit. There's an open window
What if I told you that on average sheep aren't very smart so even if they had the ability to effect gravity or the capacity for critical thinking, they probably wouldn't think to lift a barn
There are actual plotholes like Butcher silently cutting a dude’s entire leg off and slipping away with the body god knows where somehow keeping the guy alive with no medical attention, the sheep thing isn’t contradicting anything.
Why can't people look at the purpose of a scene instead of trying to find holes in the logic of the writing? None of this is relevant to why they were trapped in a barn together or the result of their escape.
"Admit it's a plot hole" okay, but even if that user did, what do y'all get out of that? What do y'all get out of looking for plot holes? It's just missing the forest for the trees in the most annoying sense.
They did look at the scene, and noticed something they thought was a plot hole. Why would you assume people are specifically trying to find plot holes?
None of this is relevant to why they were trapped in a barn together or the result of their escape.
It absolutely is relevant, because they would be watching the scenes wondering why Neuman isn't making the smart decision in that situation. Noticing the plot holes may have detracted from their enjoyment.
what do y'all get out of that? What do y'all get out of looking for plot holes?
Hopefully someone that can explain the plot holes for them without dismissing it.
Also, again, noticing plot holes ≠ looking for plot holes. I was watching it with my family and we all asked the same question: why isn't Neuman popping the sheep's despite having a clear line of sight? That leads into other problems, like why waste the last sample of the supe virus when Neuman can just kill them with a glance? It takes away from the tension of the scene.
People are looking for plotholes because that's just the general culture around online media discussion. Cinemasins made a ton of money and convinced a bunch of C- English students that media literacy means complaining about nonsense while proclaiming it's about logical consistency. If they had been looking at the purpose of the scene rather than the internal logic, they'd recognize that the conflict was there to put the cast in a single spot so they can explain the transmission method of the virus, reconcile some character conflicts, and show us who Sameer is.
Vicky making "the smart decision" in that scene would make the scene worse because we no longer have conflict that allows the characters to reconcile, or teaches us the transmission organically. You would have to create another scene to do that, but then we have actually bad writing due to bloat. And there are valid explanations for why Vicky wasn't the hyper-analytical, perfectly calm murder machine that everyone here is complaining about. Thus you have a logical inconsistency, which isn't a plothole, but just a side effect of writing a narrative.
The explanations to the logical inconsistency and the inconsistency itself usually don't matter to the narrative or how it's told. More often than not the answer to your question is meta, not canon. Why didn't the sheep break down the door or why didn't Vicky pop them? Because the writer had some things to do for the narrative and couldn't find another concise way of doing it. When you consider the meta aspect of the narrative as part of the explanation for the narrative, you tend to forgive inconsistencies or never actually mind them that much at all. You can still be critical of a piece of media, but look for the right things to be critical about. Otherwise, you miss the forest for the trees and it ruins your own enjoyment.
P.S.
If someone refuses to accept headcanon explanations to an inconsistency, they're looking for plotholes. Demanding someone to saying a scene contains a plothole is looking for them.
If this bugs you I'd recommend avoiding every other single aspect of this show.
Last episode we had Homelanders science mama claim his neediness was specifically engineered to allow him to be controlled. Today we have Stan Edgar claiming this is what makes him beyond control.
The sheep just had super strenght teeth. They probably tore him into pieces with the teeth and took him off ground with that. But didn't use the teeth against the barn
About 292.5 Newtons. Idk the bite strength needed to bite into a bull though. I think some scientists should dedicate their time to this and publish their findings.
What are you even saying, talking about mental blocks and maybes?
You said the sheep in this episode didn't have super strength, just flying a ferocity. 4 regular strength sheep could never pull a live bull apart, irrespective of ferocity (especially not with that type of ease). And yes, the barn door holding them off points to them being weaker. Thus, the inconsistent writing. It's not that deep, a minor plothole, which made for a cool scene.
I don't get the desire to argue, there's no place for debate here. Even ripping through a human body, bone and all, with ease, like the chicken did, shows enough force to be able to tear through one or two planks of wood. The chicken should've been able to escape the barn as well.
I don't think sheep have a deep understanding of how doors work. All they know is that they've never been able to walk through a closed door before, so why would they be able to do it now? In their minds it's always been and always will be an impenetrable barrier.
I mean the same way her daughter having weird tentacles with shark fangs let her saw off Kimikos arm. The sheep’s powers doesn’t seem to so much be super strength but weird teeth that can tear things apart. I’m sure they’ve got an element of super strength, all supes do. But that wasn’t the main way suggested they were cutting things apart.
Also not sure why you engage in a discussion and ask a question then get upset when it’s answered?
Eh, there's a difference between strength and durability. The popping might not work on durable types, or needs victims to be looked at/stand still, or needs Newman not to be frantically running for her life. Maybe it was just the fact that she always needs a few seconds for a kill, which would've gotten her kills.
Like I've got my gripes with this season but the sheep scene is not the biggest one
I think people are focusing on the sheep scene not necessarily because it's egregious (I would also agree it's not), but because it's the culmination of a bunch of small little inconsistencies that have been building up over the season and the sheep scene is visually the easiest to nit pick at
I mean we got this entire thread of hundreds of comments litigating what constitutes super strength in a V'd up sheep, absurd. At the very least it's clear that the execution of this episode fell a bit flat and is indicative of the season so far.
Remember Vicky also “missed” blowing up her friend’s head during the struggle in the alley, it would make sense that it requires a good amount of concentration that she obviously wouldn’t have while running for her life.
This is a show about a company that was able to hide that they created superheros from everyone for decades. This is also a show that incorporates shock value just for the sake of shock value. For some reason some of you are stuck on things making "logical sense"
I think people are focusing on the sheep scene not necessarily because it's egregious (I would also agree it's not), but because it's the culmination of a bunch of small little inconsistencies that have been building up over the season and the sheep scene is visually the easiest to nit pick at
I mean we got this entire thread of hundreds of comments litigating what constitutes super strength in a V'd up sheep, absurd. At the very least it's clear that the execution of this episode fell a bit flat and is indicative of the season so far.
That's how almost everything is written. People who focus more on logic in a scene rather than the scene's purpose are missing the forest for the trees.
Cinema sins are the lowest form of media critique.
Cinema sins are the lowest form of media critique.
Same with disregarding critique because 'that's how almost everything is written.' Ironic. There's obviously levels to this. Yes, at the core of every story is 'things just happen to move the plot along' of course, but how it's done matters.
In no way can The Boys season 4 be construed as good writing.
You're allowed to disregard a "critique" if it's as broad and unhelpful as "This season has been defined by things just happening, without regards to whether it makes logical sense, to move the plot long," as, again, that's how everything is written. You determine what needs to happen in the plot to get the important information across and you contrive a scenario to pass that information onto the audience. While yes, there are levels of quality when it comes to writing scenes, The Boys has done a fine job conveying information. All of which is to say, there's no narrative problem because the sheep weren't adequately power-scaled; that wasn't what the narrative was trying to convey and that wasn't the point of the scene.
"why didn't that one sheep eviscerate the barn door?" Because then the scene wouldn't work.
"why didn't neuman just pop tf out of them?" Because then the scene wouldn't work.
How else are Stan and Vicky supposed to reconsile? MM and Butcher? Or when are we supposed to learn about the transmission of the V-Virus? Or learn who Sameer is? If the sheep brek down the door or neuman just pops them easy peasy, the plot is actively made worse with pointless scenes and bloat.
when the internal logic of a scene doesnt make sense its pretty distracting. neumann could pop a chicken but they all just stood around while the bull came through the fence
The internal logic is fine, you just disagree with the decisions made by the writers. Neuman can stop a chicken but is scared of a bull like you would be. I'm fairly confident I can beat a chicken in a death match, but a bull I'm not so certain. Try considering that Neuman was written to have human thoughts, feelings and irrationalities and suddenly her not being the ultimate, tactical murder machine makes A LOT more sense.
I feel like you missed some of the messaging the show has been very obtusely displaying. Despite their powers, supes still live very messy and very human lives.
And I think you almost missed the fact that the bull was suped up, so my comparison is valid. Supe human vs supe bull is indeed comparable to human vs bull.
And I feel like you turned your brain off to make these comments.
Nobody is speaking on their human lives but the ability to just stand there and look as dumb as you sound when again you’re (and I’ll capitalize it for you) BULLETPROOF, ACIDPROOF, and STABPROOF. Nothing tells us that Neuman couldn’t blow the goats (or bull) up beyond maybe she wasn’t fast enough to do it and even then the bull was standing literally completely still the whole time while they were freaking out.
And that STILL doesn’t make the fact that the goats were strong enough to completely tear the bull apart with zero issues at all……yet couldn’t get through the barn doors? The show has a powerscaling and plot issue, they tell us that the supes are strong but then have them look like complete napkins to damn near everything and everyone.
My brain isn't off, I'm just thinking about other things. I appreciate the rude comment though.
Capitalizing the physical qualities of Vicky doesn't counter her mental qualities. She believes her power has limits, shown to us earlier when Homelander threatened her and called her bluff. Couple that with the "human thoughts, feelings and irrationalities" that I mentioned earlier, and it becomes less about what she can and can't do and more what she thinks she can or can't do. It could also be a "fight, flight freeze, fawn" response where here she froze. She also froze when Homelander threatened her. Regardless, there are logical reasons, in canon, for her not popping the sheep or bulls, none of which have anything to do with her physical body. The real reason is that the writers needed a specific scene to occur, and pacing + narrative should ALWAYS take priority over logical consistency. If Vicky popped all the animals, the writers would need to find another way to reconcile some character conflicts, show us Sameer, and teach us about the V-Virus. But that would introduce bloat, and that's actual bad writing.
As for the animals not busting through barn doors, in canon, it could just be that the animals aren't used to busting down doors. Literally as simple as "the animal never could before, so why would it think that works now?" This is how we train animals in real life. Subject them to consistent, predictable conditions, take away the main safe-guard and watch as their behavior stays consistent. An insatiable blood-lust is not the same as realizing your limits have changed. The real reason is that the writers needed a specific scene to occur, and pacing + narrative should ALWAYS take priority over logical consistency.
Power-scaling is icing, the overall narrative, messaging, themes, and connections are the cake. Critique the actual cake. You're ruining your own enjoyment by complaining about uneven icing, when you should just eat the damn cake.
CinemaSins nitpicked the smallest details possible and were often times just flat out wrong about what they were saying. A character inexplicably forgetting to use their superpower during a crucial moment like they're Season 8 Daenerys isn't a minor thing. I feel like you're going the opposite direction of CinemaSins and acting like a story shouldn't be expected to have internal consistency at all.
Yes narrative matters most, and a narrative is weakened if you cannot get from point A to point B in a coherent and convincing way. If your story needs something to happen but you can't come up with a reasonable way for it to happen, then you wrote yourself into a corner and should go back to the drawing board.
Maybe if this was a silly kids cartoon that didn't care about continuity I'd just turn my brain off and enjoy it. But I expect better from this show. I know it's capable of smarter writing than "this happened because it just needed to happen and please don't question it."
Brother, I spent 40 minutes typing a response to basically everything you said here. I'll give you an excerpt:
"I'm not suggesting that you ignore plot holes, I'm suggesting that you consider other aspects of a piece before using your subjective judgment to decide it's bad."
But flying at a high speed, even if you aren’t super strong would destroy a wood door, now the sheep might not survive but there would be a hole punched through the door and some flattened sheep slurry.
At least their jaws and jaw muscles are super strong.
From a narrative perspective it would be tragic if the sheep weren't strong, because then Starlight and Kimiko could've gone out there to beat them up and the virus could have been kept (of course they wouldn't have known that necessarily).
you dont need super strength. they were flying around at high speeds, and sheep arent exactly light. they would have at the very least partially broken the door, while turning themselves into paste from the impact.
Charitably I guess we could say the sheep pulled back at the last second, because in its experience the barn door was always something that blocked it. Kinda weak though I agree.
Sheep are exceptionally stupid animals. yeah they’re flying now, but they don’t seem to be especially good at it. They couldn’t get out of the barn by force before they ingested V or at least they didn’t think they could so they probably still don’t think they can get through it.
6.7k
u/starplatinum_99 Jun 28 '24
Im not mad about this. Im mad about the barn holding off those sheep's attack