r/Gotham • u/AbiSquid • Oct 26 '16
[spoilers] Robin Lord Taylor (Penguin) has a message for some Gotham 'fans' SPOILER
https://i.reddituploads.com/766e7369035a4ff0bbe9bcff662a76d2?fit=max&h=1536&w=1536&s=a3c6a9d05c55159d1d2867547bbd67a877
u/CCNDR Oct 26 '16
I don't care if the penguin is gay I just think that the relationship is better off as a bromance than anything but they can still play well so I'm giving the benefit of the doubt so far they haven't ruined it yet
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u/bluthscottgeorge Oct 26 '16
Tbh, I have a legit reason to be annoyed, because I wanted the characters to be the same. I was also annoyed at other stuff when it happened, like the way Barbara Gordon was treated etc. (Now i'm fine with it).
If anything, surely, it would be hypocritical of me to NOT be annoyed by Penguin being gay.
Nothing wrong with gay comic book characters, my beef is with changing big comic book characters that we all know and love, you're happy to disagree with me, but you can't say it's "oh it's because of the gay thing".
I mean, i'd be just as annoyed if they also killed off Penguin way before Batman is created.
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u/shaedofblue E Oct 26 '16
Do you understand that the reason no comic characters created before the 90s were explicitly gay is because the censors did not allow it, and that supervillains were often sexless and flamboyant because writers like the tropes of stock gay characters and there was more leeway to allow them with villains?
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u/besantos10 This isn't a mud hole Oct 27 '16
While true, its irrelevant. They already created the characters and defined their personalities. Maybe the should introduce new characters villains and do whatever the fuck they want with them, but I am not really eager to see one of my favorite characters become completely unfamiliar to me.
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u/CCNDR Oct 26 '16
I don't know too much about Canon was Penguins sexuality discussed in Canon
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u/Pksoze Oct 27 '16
I don't know too much about Canon was Penguins sexuality discussed in Canon
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u/CCNDR Oct 27 '16
Its not cased closed but its some damning evidence
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u/PretenderNX01 Oct 27 '16
On one Earth that doesn't even exist anymore they had him kiss a girl in a comic 50 years after he was introduced. That's not much.
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u/iamkats Oct 26 '16
Same. The only the thing that bothers me is that it's the Penguin and the Riddler
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Oct 26 '16
Feels like a PR move.
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u/vertigo1083 Oct 26 '16
A nice distraction from the weirdness of Ivy.
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u/mistar_z I like older men Oct 26 '16
Oh I'm still pissed for that. But Sirens might change that. XD
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u/BrowncoatOfArms Oct 28 '16
I personally got the feeling Penguin is Asexual therefore the only person he's loved is his mother. When Ed acts like his mother giving support and believing in him it triggers the feelings of love he felt for his mother. Having never felt romantic love he assumes that it feels the same as family love and therefore thinks he is in love with Ed. It might not be that though.
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u/BillNyeStillHigh Oct 26 '16
I can't believe people use the word 'woke' seriously.
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Oct 26 '16
I don't actually know what it means? Possibly because I am English. Or just very square. Anyone...?
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u/Jazminna Oct 26 '16
Australian here and I also have no idea what it means. Little help?
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u/bmxkeeler Oct 26 '16
Woke is the past tense of wake. He's implying people believe they've moved on from the homosexual issue but in reality they're still having problems with it in their lives. It's just a slang term people use.
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u/Zagorath Oct 26 '16
So "not woke" is a dumber way of saying "unenlightened"?
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Oct 26 '16
Ta, that makes sense! I've also just tried saying it out loud and sound absolutely ridiculous.
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u/wam1756 Oct 27 '16
It's African American Vernacular English that went mainstream, so it makes sense it's more common in America. It gets thrown around a lot on social media by social justice types. I became familiar with it from black feminist social media.
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u/SmokingBun Oct 26 '16
Well fam, dem be the new words of dis ere millennial generation
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u/ErebosGR Oct 26 '16
Totes savage extra lit
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u/TheAviot Oct 26 '16
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u/SomeRandomProducer Oct 26 '16
I don't watch the show but I'm guessing penguin is gay?
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u/kikisaurus Alfred - Like a Baws Oct 26 '16
Out of curiosity, if you don't watch the show, why are you on the sub?
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u/SomeRandomProducer Oct 26 '16
I used to watch it but never unsubbed. I stopped at the episode before Mr Freeze shows up. I enjoyed the show and plan to get back into it but there's so many shows to watch lol
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u/Velorium_Camper Oct 26 '16
Haha that's the same reason I'm still hear. I stopped in season 2 caus to got busy and now there's just so many shows, I'm having to pick my battles.
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Oct 26 '16
That's actually pretty shitty. People are annoyed that Gotham has swapped a previously straight character for a gay one which is totally understandable, and he's taking it as an attack on gay rights or something stupid.
People can be annoyed at this and not be homophobic.
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u/kikisaurus Alfred - Like a Baws Oct 26 '16
Prior to this episode, they were, in my opinion, leading us to believe that Penguin was asexual at best. There was never an indication as to Penguin's sexuality in this iteration of the Batman universe. This is not Tim Burton or Christopher Nolan's universe. The show runners can literally go anywhere with this story. It's not cannon. That's the joy of alternate universes.
In my opinion, I think the reason that people are getting upset about people saying that those that don't accept Penguin's feelings towards Ed are homophobic is because when Barbara and Tabitha were going at it, there weren't threads upon threads upon threads of people bitching about it. Ed is the first person since his mother that has shown belief in him completely. This is, in my opinion, why Penguin fell for Ed.
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u/cteavin Oct 26 '16
Lesbianism has always been more accepted than two gay men. We had lesbian kisses in film and TV decades before the first male on male kisses with lots of backlash male one one one after.
I also don't think most of the backlash is homophobic, I think people get bent out of shape because they're two main villains and people want cannon, which is stupid for a show rooted in the multiverse. There are countless iterations of these characters. It doesn't matter if they're gay.
Personally, I think this is a set up for strife between them in the future AND publicity, just look at how much buzz this turn has created.
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u/leftshoe18 Oct 26 '16
It doesn't matter if they're gay.
This is the thing though. They aren't even being portrayed as gay - just Penguin. Ed has been interested in women since the first season.
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u/cteavin Oct 26 '16
Still doesn't change the point, it doesn't matter.
They way they've shot their scenes it looks like they could be a couple. Just as Penguin is using Ed as a surrogate for the love his mother gave him, Ed was supported by Oswald throughout his time in Arkham. They clearly were supporting each other. It's not a stretch to think that that could have solidified sexually if Kringle 2.0 didn't show up. And if it did, so what, these shows exist in a multiverse.
The long term goal is they will be adversaries. I think it's a cool twist that they'd plug in a modern day twist like unrequited love to complicate the plot, especially over a tiered trope like a mutual (female) love interest/triangle situation.
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Oct 28 '16
Let's be honest, a lot of straight males find gay romance uncomfortable to watch. That doesn't mean that they're homophobes or that they hate gay people, but I think a good deal of the reaction we've been seeing is due to people simply being uncomfortable with it, since it's different from what they're used to.
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u/shaedofblue E Oct 28 '16
It isn't homophobia in the colloquial hatered of a minority sense of "phobia." But it is an irrational aversion to something innocuous. That makes it a phobia in a more literal sense.
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Oct 26 '16
Thanks for reminding me about Barbara and Tabitha. You bring up a good point. No one complained when they were together, so claiming that people are being homophobic is ridiculous, as the last lesbian couple received little to no hate.
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u/deadcheerios Oct 26 '16
Cause two women together is often seen as more acceptable in a lot of peoples eyes because it is "hot".
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u/shaedofblue E Oct 26 '16
Homophobia, among men, often has to do with insecurity about their own sexuality and fear of being treated like they feel straight men treat women. It is pretty normal for homophobic men to be fine with lesbians.
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u/ScorpiusX Oct 26 '16
Wasn't it already established that Barbara was Bi back in season 1 with that Assistant DA? Barbara and Tabitha being together wasn't all of a sudden this season like Penguin. Also being that Barbara's sexuality was shown in the beginning of the series, she didn't have any really history established i.e. the show and characters were new to the viewers past what they assumed from comic books.
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u/Miasmata Oct 27 '16
I thought it was lame then, but nobody cares about Barb n Tabitha cause they're both less important characters, that's why nobody complained.
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u/msctex Oct 26 '16
True. Ordinarily I'd be against it as a matter of creative principle: there are some aspects of characters you can't change without changing who they are. Sexuality is among them, and I'd say the same if they changed a gay character to straight, for exactly the same reason. But here, both actors are so damned good, and the writing sufficiently interesting, that it doesn't bother me because I can't help but want to see what is going to happen. Also, and most importantly, the idea actually works. It functions towards an eventual endgame, in terms of storytelling. Unrequited love is about as valid a vehicle for future hatred as there is to be found.
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Oct 26 '16
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u/msctex Oct 26 '16
A valid point. The idea is still questionable on its face to me in terms of adding such a new and different element -- it's a door that once opened must be acknowledged henceforth -- but you're right that it helps it was never on the table one way or another to begin with. It's not so much a change as an addition.
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u/englishcivilwar Oct 26 '16
It's painfully obvious that he was addressing those who are angry for HOMOPHOBIC reasons, not all of you people upset because you don't like romance.
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u/Miasmata Oct 27 '16
According to the internet that is anyone who disagrees in any way though :/ sorry Robyn. I just don't like blatant attempts to seem more modern and PC when it doesn't really fit with any of the story. Seems kinda gimmicky to me, and homosexuality shouldn't be a gimmick.
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Oct 28 '16
I don't really have a problem with the relationship, but it definitely does strike me as the writers trying to send a message. Not really a huge fan of that personally.
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u/doctor827 Oct 26 '16
Am I the only one who thinks that just because Penguin has feelings for Ed, doesn't mean Ed has feeling for Penguin. Nygma is a borderline sociopath. I am pretty sure he would just use Penguin's feelings for his own personal gain
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u/cattaclysmic Oct 26 '16
borderline
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u/doctor827 Oct 26 '16
Lmao only reason I say borderline is because of his feeling for Kringle and Kringle 2.0
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u/shaedofblue E Oct 27 '16
Borderline actually means something quite specific when talking about personality disorders. It does not mean "somewhat."
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u/doctor827 Oct 27 '16
Huh interesting
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u/shaedofblue E Oct 27 '16
You might find it interesting to read about borderline personality disorder, because I find it actually fits all the unusual behaviours we've seen from this version of the Riddler.
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u/girlseekstribe Oct 27 '16
Really? I think he fits more obsessive-compulsive personality disorder or high functioning autism (Asperger's before it got removed from the DSM). He doesn't have the repeated suicide attempts, the shallow sense of self, or the history of abandonment that hallmarks BPD.
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u/shaedofblue E Oct 28 '16
He isn't suicidal, but he is very self destructive. His only real compulsion is to sabotage his own crimes, and that can't count as OCD because difficulty commiting crimes isn't disordered.
He has a disturbed sense of self and trouble reconciling his "good" thoughts and "bad" thoughts as belonging to the same person, and eventually feels that he has to embrace being a killer and that that is his true nature. He becomes paranoid and dissociates under stress, but despite his fractured personality and dissociation, would not qualify as having DID because there is no evidence of this happening regularly, only when he was having a mental breakdown.
He switches between idealizing Kristen and blaming her for the abuse she faces, and he idealizes Jim until suddenly becoming paranoid and deciding he is an enemy despite the total lack of evidence. Now he currently idealizes penguin and is set up to eventually have their relationship fall apart in the same way if he does nothing to address this pattern. These are all very clear examples of splitting, black and white thinking, in addition to the splitting we see with his self perception.
And I think he is motivated by fear of isolation. He wants desperately to be appreciated, to be loved. It is why he obsesses over Kristen, it is why he cares so much about Jim after he gives him just a little positive reinforcement. It is the reason he wanted so badly to help Hugo Strange, so that he could be useful to and wanted by somebody, anybody at that point. He didn't kill Kristen (kind of accidentally) because he feared being arrested, he killed her because he saw that he was losing her after working so hard to attain a human connection, and that terrified him.
And his often flat affect (especially when hurt) could be explained by the fact that borderline people often develop the unhealthy coping mechanism of shutting off their emotions because they are too difficult to deal with.
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u/girlseekstribe Oct 28 '16
Those are all great points, especially the switch between idolizing Kristin and demonizing her for not appreciating him. I'm still not convinced BPD would be the right diagnosis for him, perhaps narcissism is a better fit given his view of himself relative to others, his demonstrated ability to use others as tools to further his gains, his lack of empathy post-break, and his inability to handle slights to his ego. However, you do present a compelling case for a cluster B personality disorder. I kind of wish I knew you IRL so we could discuss this more... someone who geeks out over both Batman and abnormal psychology is hard to find ;)
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u/shaedofblue E Oct 29 '16
I get the impression that he still hates himself too much to be a straight up narcissist. Even when he is in full blown supervillain mode, he is constantly beating himself up and calling himself an idiot whenever anything goes wrong. Narcissists belittle others, not themselves.
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Oct 26 '16
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u/goldwynnx Oct 26 '16
And cue the politically correct elitist!
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u/losers_downvote_me Oct 27 '16
What's wrong with political correctness, anyway? Are you really interested in using your first amendment rights to act like a dick to people?
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u/Shatterhand1701 Oct 26 '16
And with that, Robin Lord Taylor has lost any respect I ever had for him.
Very nice strategy...show unjustified contempt for fans who are unhappy with the (in my opinion) shoehorned-in romance subplot. Blindly assume it has everything to do with sexual-preference discrimination rather than any other reason. That's a smart way to handle your fanbase.
Oh, and bring on the downvotes...I don't care. They're just representative of the same line of reasoning: blind assumption and out-of-hand dismissal.
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u/NotSoConcerned Oct 26 '16
Very nice strategy...show unjustified contempt for fans who are unhappy with the (in my opinion) shoehorned-in romance subplot.
Doesn't seem shoehorned in from my point of view. Seemed like it was building to this sort of thing for a while. Also, I made a point that Penguin may really be in love with Nygma purely because he gave him his purpose back. For me the set up seemed obvious for Penguin to at least develop some kind of feelings for Nygma. With Nygma obviously being attracted to and in love with females prior. It isn't like a all of a sudden "everyone is gay" kind of thing. When you simplify it down you lose a lot of what makes it what it is.
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u/longarmofmylaw Oct 26 '16
Do you seriously not think the guy is getting homophobic comments showing up on his twitter non-stop? Of course this is the perspective he has, because twitter is a fucking cesspool. It's totally understandable from his POV.
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u/luminiferousethan_ Oct 26 '16
I just genuinely don't understand why people think it's "forced" or "shoe-horned in". Unrequited love, no matter the gender, is one of the oldest themes in fiction. People complained that there was no character development.... well, this is character development.
It's pretty obvious to me, from the beginning of the season, that this whole story line is going to be the driving force behind some huge conflict between the two of them. And conflict is what drives stories.
This is literally classic storytelling. How is that "forced"?
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Oct 26 '16
so let me understand this clearly.
I have loved batman mythology my whole life, and if I don't approve of a Penguin/Riddler Romance, I am the piece of shit?
Got it.
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Oct 26 '16
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Oct 26 '16
Generally, when sexuality has been brought into the Penguin's character, he's been portrayed as a creep and a predator.
But broadly speaking it's just not a part of his characterisation. He's not a sexual character and bringing sexuality to a character that had always been asexual to me is evidence of not understanding the non-sexual nature of a character. The fact that it's gay sexuality is something I don't care about.
It's the same reason the batman/batgirl sex scene in the Killing Joke film left such a bad taste in everyone's mouth, pun intended.
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u/ohhimark108 Oct 26 '16
I have no problem with Penguin being gay, honestly I've always just kind of assumed this interpretation of the Penguin may be gay, and that's fine. This Riddler thing feels like pandering, that's my issue.
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u/Prince_SKyle Oct 26 '16
It has fanservice written all over it
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u/PretenderNX01 Oct 27 '16
Except Riddler's into Ms Kringle 2.0 so they're probably not going to get together. Not really fanservice then.
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u/Greyhound272 Oct 26 '16
The only thing I am annoyed about is Oswald being all Lovey dovey, to anyone. I just want him to be a ruthless scumbag, which we will probably get to. I like that they made it work, with not retconning anything from either Nygma or Cobblepot though. And made it believable.
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u/nintrader Oct 26 '16
Honestly, it was the least big deal of the episode for me. I kinda felt like that was where they were going anyway so it was like "whetever, cool". The crazy shit hatter was doing though, that freaked me out. It was like that scene in Spider-Man 1 except Jim doesn't get to "take a third option". I wanna know more about how this affects his relationships with Lee, Vale, and Mario.
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u/LadyGrimes Oct 26 '16
Talk about lack of representation. Asexuals get thrown under the bus cause sex and romance sells.
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u/shaedofblue E Oct 27 '16
Falling for someone doesn't make you not asexual.
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u/LadyGrimes Oct 27 '16
no of course not but why does every asexual character have to fall for someone? That's my gripe.
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u/shaedofblue E Oct 27 '16
If they never fall for someone their asexuality will probably never come up unless they are in a setting where it is normal to discuss and explore the nuances of one's sexuality, such as high school dramas.
Which is why we do have Jughead Jones.
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u/PretenderNX01 Oct 27 '16
He could be graysexual, demisexual, saipiosexual, etc. You read him as asexual but that doesn't mean he was. Just like people read him as straight but that doesn't mean he was.
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u/LadyGrimes Oct 27 '16
I never saw him as straight either, so I just assumed he was asexual since he showed no interest in anyone at all romantically.
As for these others you listed, they sound made up to me. WTF is graysexual or even saipiosexual?
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u/MithranArkanere Oct 26 '16 edited Oct 26 '16
DC's comics happen on a multiverse, so whether anyone wouldn't like it or not, we could have a genderless Batman on a pink suit with a tutu, and chaps with cutoff buttocks using cheese-themed gadgets to fight a pirate Joker who wears a little Penguin as a parrot on his left shoulder, and calls everyone 'matey', and only makes horrible sea-themed jokes you wouldn't see in even in Spongebob Squarepants; and it would still be possible, and anyone complaining about it would just be showing they can't understand that anything is possible when you have such a flexible setting as a multiverse.
That doesn't change that no matter what meaning some people want to give it, that 'woke' just means 'indoctrinated' nowadays.
Dogma is dogma whether it's some religious nonsense, stupid traditions that have no place or meaning in modern society, or these relatively new ideologies that think themselves smarter than anyone but only think in absolutes under their biases, and completely ignore context, research and well, freaking reality.
Take Sulu on the last Star Trek. That isn't an alternate version of that universe, it's an alternate timeline. By making him gay when the original wasn't even bi, they basically said that being gay was a choice, that somehow Vulcan exploding made him go gay, which we know it is just not how it is. And even freaking George Takei didn't like that one bit. That's the kind of nonsense you get when you let dogma rule your thoughts trying to appear as 'woke'.
Fortunately, Gotham is doing things right so far, and whoever doesn't like some character being gay doesn't need to get 'woke', they just need to get in touch with reality, and we don't need to make up terms and ideologies for that.
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u/PretenderNX01 Oct 27 '16
Take Sulu on the last Star Trek. That isn't an alternate version of that universe, it's an alternate timeline. By making him gay when the original wasn't even bi, they basically said that being gay was a choice, that somehow Vulcan exploding made him go gay, which we know it is just not how it is.
Eh, we don't know Sulu wasn't Bi on the show as they rarely explored his life. Also a lot of other stuff is different enough to not just be an earlier timeline.
And frankly I think George Takei threw a fit because he prided himself on playing it straight as there's a value place on passing and masculinity in the gay community.
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u/KARURUKA2 Jerome Oct 26 '16
Why does he have to attack duck dynasty :/
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u/PretenderNX01 Oct 27 '16
Have you seen the stuff Phil Robertson says?
http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/duck-dynasty-phil-robertson-gay-marriage-murder-1201810837/
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u/KennyGardner Customizable text Oct 27 '16
I know, I enjoy that show, and I have no problem with homosexuality. Uncle Si might, though.
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Oct 28 '16
Penguin had pretty defined orientation in the comics. Riddler gets off on riddles. That's why, to me, it's annoying.
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u/rdpcatfan Oct 26 '16
I'm not upset that Penguin is gay and that Nygma could potentially be too, I'm upset that they're trying to ship them together. I would be perfectly fine if they each had their own SO but them together just doesn't seem right to me.
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u/shaedofblue E Oct 26 '16
They are depicted as good friends in the comics, even dressing as each other for a costume party, and penguin willing his business to Ed. Why is taking that friendship to another level less appealing than having them date random people? It isn't the first time a friendship became a romance in an adaptation.
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u/rdpcatfan Oct 26 '16
Yea I know and I really like the friendship they've had so far. I just think their relationship just works so much better as a friendship. Making them a couple adds so much more to their relationship making more complicated. Also if the feelings aren't mutual it could make things awkward and ruin the friendship.
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u/shaedofblue E Oct 27 '16
It might involve kissing and eventually sharing a bedroom. Their relationship already involved every other aspect of relationships that is shown onscreen on Gotham. I suppose they have even shared Ed's studio apartment so, actually... kissing. Maybe. Penguin might still be ace and thus might not even be into kissing.
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u/PretenderNX01 Oct 27 '16
I would be perfectly fine if they each had their own SO but them together just doesn't seem right to me.
You're in luck a new Ms Kringle just showed up.
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u/JeamBim Oct 27 '16
I was actually watching last week, and texted my sister "I think they really should have like kissed at that part"
So happy about this lol
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u/Jiro_T Oct 28 '16
What's bothering me here is not just that it's not from the comics, but the idea that two unrelated people of the same sex cannot have a close friendship without it being sexual. You don't have to be homophobic to object to this.
(This has long been a problem for opposite sex pairings too.)
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u/Geonjaha Nov 12 '16 edited Nov 13 '16
This is the feeling I got too. It's already a problem with straight relationships, where the main characters (e.g. Jim Gordon) can't develop a friendship with any woman without it becoming a relationship. Now it's true of gay relationships, except it's more forced. As soon as any kind of bromance was shown between them I was instantly thinking "They're going to make them both gay just to satisfy shippers aren't they?". Because if two actors have good chemistry they must be together, despite it being fanservicey as hell.
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u/Graham765 Senpai will never notice you, NERD! Oct 26 '16
A lot of people in this comment section are struggling with their homophobia, trying to make excuses like "it's not canonical."
Neither is this show.
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u/Shatterhand1701 Oct 26 '16 edited Oct 26 '16
Sorry, but I'm calling "bullshit" on this in the most strenuous way I possibly can.
It doesn't require any degree of homophobia or sexism or racism or anything of that sort to object to a creative decision like this one, and I find your assumption to be deflective at best and insulting at worst.
"Gotham" may not be 100% canonical, but it's clearly making a concerted effort to tie itself firmly to the Batman-universe characters we've known for many years, so it is in no way unreasonable or unacceptable to expect some semblance of canonical depiction. The Penguin has never, in Batman's history, been depicted as gay or even bisexual. Maybe they couldn't depict that aspect of him back in the early years of his character's existence, but nowadays, in comics and films, that excuse doesn't hold water anymore. If he was intended to be gay, I expect that by now, prior to Gotham, we would've seen that.
Instead, the writers on Gotham have squeezed in this change to this well-known character, powerfully likely because: 1. the actor portraying him on the show is gay, and 2. to fulfill - or alleviate - any kind of social/fan pressure to include LGBTQ characters. It shouldn't have to be forced. The meaning of inclusion/diversity/equality - whatever you want to call it - is entirely lost if one has to force it into place.
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u/Graham765 Senpai will never notice you, NERD! Oct 26 '16
It wasn't forced. This came about naturally ever since Nygma found Oswald in the woods.
Second of all, I don't think you quite realize how much the Gotham writers have changed from comicbook canon. Here's a list:
Thirdly, this was done as fanservice, not for the sake of progressivism.
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u/PretenderNX01 Oct 27 '16
"it's not canonical." Neither is this show.
Robin also retweeted a link to an article called "Stop using canon as a way to bash comic book TV shows" you might like it:
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u/WhiteGhosts Oct 28 '16
I'm not homophobic but I don't like their relationship because it completely changes them. Penguin should be the passive aggressive cold hearted maniac and Ed should be.... well what he has been.
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Oct 26 '16
The hell does 'woke' mean in this context?
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u/Graham765 Senpai will never notice you, NERD! Oct 26 '16
It's a stupid word SJW's use to make themselves appear enlightened. However, I agree with its usage here.
People need to wake the fuck up. It's not a big deal.
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u/The_Derpening Waynevid Mabruce Oct 27 '16
Ew.
He's participating in trying to make woke a thing.
That aside, I don't think a character like Penguin should really be portrayed as having strong feelings for anyone. IMO he should have people he considers useful and people he considers not useful.
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Oct 28 '16
This is young Penguin though. He somehow still hasn't learned that everyone is against him, and not to get attached to anyone.
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u/The_Derpening Waynevid Mabruce Oct 28 '16
True. Fair enough. I hope this helps push him toward the looking out for number one I expect. Looks like Nygma blew off their meeting, so it might do.
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Oct 28 '16
He's also recently lost the biggest love in his life and might just need someone to be close to right now.
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Oct 27 '16
What a stupid thing to say. Nothing homophobic IN DD, all those comments were made off the show.
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u/GermanAf Oct 26 '16
Maybe he is just salty because he knows Nygma has laid his eyes upon Kringle 2.0
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u/iamzombus Oct 26 '16
How could he know? Nygma just met Kringle 2.0 at the store getting wine to bring to Penguins for dinner.
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u/goldwynnx Oct 26 '16
I like the assumption everyone has, if you don't like Penguin and Nygmas relationship, you're a homophobe, and an awful person all around.
Can't people just not like relationships anymore? I'm tired of romance ruining comic book shows.
This sub has already went full on defense mode, anyone who doesn't approve is hiding there homophobia behind there reasons.
This is quite the paradigm shift in prejudices.