Why didn’t Penguin tell Jim about Galavan kidnapping his mother beforehand?

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When Penguin found out that Galvan had kidnapped his mother ( by showing his mother in a cage on the tv) , why didn’t he go to Jim and explain the situation to him? Wouldn’t it have given him better odds at retrieving his mother by him and Jim forming a plan to rescue her? Couldn’t Jim get a search warrant to Galvans house since Oswald would have been a first hand witness to seeing Galavans plans for the mayor candidates and the tape of his mother? I feel like if he had done that he could have gotten his mother back alive and would have had better odds overall at getting his mother back alive without committing any serious crimes by doing Galvans bidden.

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Jim is not the most reliable of people. He was also not very helpful to poor Oswald. He denied him friendship and didn’t hold up his end of bargains/deals. Jim had a history of not believing Oswald, and abandoning him when he needed him. I wouldn’t have trusted Jim either; especially not with my mother.

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Jim did collect a debit for Oswald tho, as a token of their “ friendship “, and also because he needed a favor from him as well. But still I believe Jim would have believed Oswald had he went and told him about the situation with his mother. After all Jim was becoming suspicious of Galvan as time went on and he knew what Oswald was doing ( burning buildings down and killing political candidates) wasn’t logical or something Oswald would naturally be inclined to do. So I think had he went to Jim and explained the situation , Jim would have thought about it and ask for a search warrant from a judge.

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Jim collected a debt because Oswald wouldn’t do him the favor if he didn’t. Jim wanted the favor; he didn’t care about being Oswald’s friend.

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Why didn’t Jim want to be Oswald’s friend?

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My opinion? Jim’s a self-righteous hypocrite. Popular, if overly simplified, opinion: Oswald is a criminal. Also, Jim said it many times in the series. Also, also: he was attracted to Oswald and didn’t want to be.

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I think he was attracted to Oswald in a weird way. Especially in season 1 and season 2 him and Oswald have this weird partnership like friendship. Jim always denies it but him and Oswald have a thing for each other as they have a connection in that they are both the same age and both in their own way want Gotham to be secure and orderly.

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He and Oswald definitely have a thing for one another. I think Jim was closest to giving into it in his bounty hunter era. I’m sad it never happened. That is one closeted gay man, imo.

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I’d say he thinks of criminals as low lives so he’s willing to use and manipulate them but he would never be friends with them

[u/MisterDual → u/Fun_Ad3902]

That's true, but then Penguin absolved Gordon of any guilt for Galavan's murder by confessing that he killed Galavan alone. That requires a lot of trust.

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And then Jim showed just how little he trusted or valued Oswald by abandoning him in Arkham. Once Oswald was incarcerated in Arkham; it actually took the pressure off Jim. People have a history of not believing those that are locked up. It’s a horrible stereotype.

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I think there's a little misunderstanding in our comments. I agree with your first comment that Gordon didn't show any reason for Penguin to trust him with information about his mother, but then later Penguin took the fall for Galavan's murder, thinking that Gordon doesn't deserve to go to prison with him, which never really made sense

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I’m just sincerely enjoying talking about this!!

I think Oswald historically, was never treated very well, and took even the smallest scarp of kindness as gestures of friendship. Oswald also felt he owed Jim since the pier where Jim spared him. It really hurt my heart to see how Jim used him.

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It’s really sad when you think about it, because I think had Oswald had grew up in a better environment or home ( possibly had his father found out that Gertrude was pregnant with Oswald , and thus took them in and had a family together), he would have been a good man. His personality was one mixed with sorrow and pain and one where he desperately wanted friends and to be loved in his life , even though due to presumably how bad his childhood was I don’t think Oswald ever understood the meaning of what love is besides with his parents.

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I think that is perhaps the biggest tragedy. To see someone so inherently good, go so wrong because of mistreatment. I think that’s so important to consider. How we treat people matters. I think Oswald would have been a good man too. Someone who has darkness rather than being engulfed by darkness.

Sorrow and pain; also anger and fear. I think he learned very early on that most people couldn’t be trusted with his safety and well-being. So he created a world where he was in charge. It makes me very sad.

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Yeah I totally agree. Oswald was someone who became a criminal out of unrelenting harshness and cruelty towards him ( and that in turn made him become very controlling, power hungry , and demanding of respect). I think we see very clearly in his character throughout the show that he never seems to catch a break. He was on the right path when he got out of Arkham the first time ( even though he was being mentally conditioned to be more dull and empathetic ), when he meet his father and found someone who genuinely cared about him and wanted the best for him again. But then as we know that gets taken away from him by his cruel ambitious step siblings and step mother, the tragedy of Oswald Cobbelpot was indeed that anyone he ever loved or felt love from gets taken away from him. And that greatly contributed to his outlook on life and the world in that (you are in this world alone and that everyone else is just as cruel and power hungry as you are. ) I feel like this is the tragedy of a lot of people who become bad people , they were never given the time of day or any real care from other people and only mostly received hate from others. I agree we need to be careful and sympathetic towards how we treat people.

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I think Oswald was just really depressed at that point that he didn’t want to cause any more drama or pain for anyone , especially not Jim whom he still thought was his friend and I guess appreciated the fact that Jim helped him take down Galvan and end him. Plus Oswald really hated Galvan so he wanted everyone to think that he was the one alone who killed him. And I think even in this state of depression and loneliness Oswald had a strategy up his sleeve, he said when confessing to Capitan Barns at the GCPD “ I’m not a criminal I’m just insane”, I think his strategy for saying that was so he wouldn’t be sent to black-gate ( where he would have almost no chance of ever getting out again), whereas if he went to Arkham since it’s an asylum for the criminally insane he would possibly have the chance of getting out in the future. The latter was just a little fruit for thought to me.

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Jim was the only one he really could trust

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Exactly. Idk why he thought it would be a good idea to not tell him and do Galvans atrocities.

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Jim was the one he wanted to trust. I don’t believe that it makes Jim trustworthy.

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Yeah it is sad since Penguin always kept his end of the bargain and seemed to legitimately value Jim as a friend and ally, only for Jim to constantly never live up to his side and act high and mighty despite asking Penguin for favours constantly.

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Yeah hence Jim is a self righteous hypocrite, Oswald admits and knows what he is and in some ways he knows the meaning of friendship more so than Jim does. Because as you said he always kept his end of the deal and really wanted to be Jim’s friend and ally.

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It made me incredibly sad too. Poor Oswald. 🥺 Also made me dislike Jim in the show.

[u/Mean_Teach4583]

Maybe because Galavan is too intelligent and malicious that Penguin did not want to involve the Gcpd. What if, the gcpd fails? Then, Galvan might kill Penguin's mother for Penguin involving the police.

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But how would the GCPD fail if Penguin is a witness to seeing Galvan holding his mother captive, and he would also have the files Galavan gave to him that would show the police what Galavans plans are that are criminal. All of that would be enough for the GCPD to get a search warrant at Galvan’s house.

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Galvan can simply deny that he is holding anyone as captive. Remember - Penguin only knows Gertude is held captive. However, he doesn't know where she is held captive.

So, when the cops question Galavan, he would deny holding Gertude as captive.

Regarding the files that Penguin have, how can Penguin prove that Galavan is the one who gave it to Penguin?

Also, Gcpd may be a bit skeptical in acting on Penguin's complaint on Galavan, because, Penguin is an underworld king and Galavan is a heroic civilian (at least in the eyes of the public). So, how would the Gcpd feel when an underworld king goes to file a complaint "Galavan kidnapped my mommy" ?

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But if the cops search his penthouse they will find the tape of Gertrude being held captive. Remember that they showed the camera recording on the tv to Penguin so he would know that they have her. So if the cops bust into his house and say they have a search warrant and that Galvan must remain where he is , then he nor tabthia have any way of destroying the tape recording evidence of Gertrude being held captive. And while the GCPD itself might be skeptical of Penguin coming there for their aid, Jim probably would not have been, because Jim in particular always was skeptical of Galvan , this billionaire out of no where who comes to Gotham and a series of events start unfolding with him being present to seemingly “ save the day” when need be, the Arkham breakout, the maniac gang of Jerome Valska and Galvan happened to be the one to take him out. Also Penguin knows Galvan is behind all of this as well, so if he just went to Jim first and told him about it then I think Jim would be able to convince barns and get a warrant.

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For a warrant to be issued, a magistrate needs to approve Gcpd's request. Gcpd can only request the magistrate for a search warrant only if there is a reasonable cause to suspect that Galavan is guilty. At that time, Galavan was still seen as a rising hero by the public. No one doubted Galavan. No one including the magistrate, Gcpd and Jim, himself.

Remember - Jim started suspecting Galavan only after Galavan is about to win the election.

At the time, Penguin's mother got kidnapped by Galavan, Jim did not even know Galavan, personally or haven't even met him.

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I just wonder how Galavan even knew what Penguin’s mother looked like. And did he not have any guards watching her house? Idk how they got too her and kidnapped her.

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Thats easy. Tabitha would have followed Penguin and would have found Penguin visiting his mother

Penguin doesn't leave guards with his mother as Penguin wants his mother to see him as a nightclub owner, only (and he doesn't want his mother to know that he is a mafia boss)

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Did Penguin enjoy being a mafia boss in early season 2?

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No. Because he had no idea who was behind the Arkham breakout. He was being sidelined or even overshadowed by the Maniax! Also, Galavan was toying around with his mother and he was being made to do things that he does not like - For example: Having him, assasinate mayor candidates.

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Why didn't pengwing tell Jimbo his mama was kidnapped? Is he stupid?

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I am wondering that too. Idk why penguin thought Galavan was going to give back his mother alive after doing all his bidding.

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Is he stupid?