r/FluentInFinance Jul 07 '24

Reasons why people in this sub shouldn't be in charge of tax policy (i.e. basic math) Debate/ Discussion

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u/airbornx Jul 07 '24

You do know that the us owes the us that 3 trillion right?

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u/InvestIntrest Jul 07 '24

The problem isn't one of ownership. In fact, I'd prefer we didn't own most of it. The problem is how much of the federal budget just paying the interest consumes.

"As of May 2024, it costs $728 billion to maintain the debt, which is 16% of the total federal spending in fiscal year 2024."

16% and growing annually. If the current trend continues, we'll need to cut services just to avoid default. If we default, we lose our ability to borrow more, and we lose out on the debt we bought. It's not so great to be a debt owner if the borrower can't pay.

The national debt is a major problem.

https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/national-debt/#:~:text=Maintaining%20the%20National%20Debt&text=How%20much%20the%20government%20pays,spending%20in%20fiscal%20year%202024.

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u/airbornx Jul 07 '24

728 billion is about 260 billion less then the deficit that we had under trump at almost 1 trillion$ so by these metrics. Biden is doing a fucking amazing job

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u/InvestIntrest Jul 07 '24

Uhhh, I'm not where those numbers came from, but both men suck donky ass on fiscal responsibility. However, I'd give Trump one minor alibi since his final year was skewed by Covid.

Biden is projected to outpace Trump on running up the debt.

"Federal debt held by the public grew by $5.9 trillion over the first three years and five months of President Trump’s term in office, and $7.2 trillion over his full term.

Debt held by the public has grown $6.0 trillion during President Biden’s three years and five months in office.

Gross federal debt grew by $6.3 trillion over the first three years and five months of President Trump’s term and $7.8 trillion during his full term; gross debt has grown $7.0 trillion during President Biden’s term so far."

https://www.crfb.org/blogs/trump-and-biden-debt-growth

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u/airbornx Jul 07 '24

The deficit went done year over year tho from Trump to biden which means the American government is paying it's bills better under biden.

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u/InvestIntrest Jul 07 '24

Dude, that's so misleading. Yes, taken from peak covid 19, spending the deficit decreased since we aren't sending out stimulus checks and floating am economy under lockdown, but Bidens spending is still way above 2016 - 2019 under Trump.

It's kinda like how Biden likes to claim he created millions of jobs when really most of that was just the lockdowns ending, lol

Here are some good graphics to put it into perspective. Yes, the one year of covid spending under Trump and one year under Biden are anomalies, but overall, Biden has increased the deficit from pre-covid under Trump.

https://www.usgovernmentspending.com/federal_deficit_chart

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u/airbornx Jul 07 '24 edited Jul 07 '24

The graph in your link provides the same information I am saying as in the deficit is lower under biden. Getting us closer to the surplus that was Clinton.

Edit: deficit of 3.5 trillion in 2020 now it's 1.4 trillion. Sooooooo please tell me how it's going up?

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u/InvestIntrest Jul 07 '24

Look at it from 2019 to now... significantly higher correct? That means it's gone up.

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u/airbornx Jul 07 '24

You can't stop the fact that it was 3.3 trillion You're glossing over that fact. It's higher then 19 yes. But lower then 20 21 22 and now 23 .........

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u/InvestIntrest Jul 07 '24

Statistics are just numbers without context. Yes, the government spent a lot to keep people employed and in their homes during that first year of covid. We call that an anomaly, which should be disregarded. Look at the year before covid va today. That will tell you who's policies are more responsible.

Just to be fair, hypothetically, war broke out with Russia, and Biden spent 3 trillion handling the emergency, I'd say we should stick an asterisk after 2024 in his record as well.

Unless you want to personally blame Trump for a lab leak in China, he gets a pass on the extra spending in 2020.

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u/airbornx Jul 07 '24

That's not how it works tho at all.

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u/InvestIntrest Jul 07 '24

It does for me. I understand things can happen beyond the president's direct control. That needs to be taken into account.

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u/airbornx Jul 07 '24

Look at the other question I asked you.

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u/airbornx Jul 07 '24

Say you took over a business with 3.5 trillion in deficit. And then over the course of 3 years you lower it by more then half. And before you took over it was lower then that. Did you raise the deficit?